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Wii U will not have system-wide achievements
- Thread starter ULTROS!
- Start date
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
There's a current platform that has both an Activity Log (in a rudimentary form, less robust than on 3DS/Wii) and Achievements.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
Kids get hooked on Pokemon. Doesn't stop Nintendo from making those.
I thought about that... Still..that's more of a result of a great game (with its own time consuming and addicting activities) then a purposeful system that 'rewards' extra playtime ... with every title. Slight difference but probably enough conviction to get attention.
Trophies would be difficult to spot for most parents but a report would be damaging to their rep especially. (Of course Sony and MS consoles don't have as good of child friendly reputation).
I bet a lot of 18+ games etc will have in-game ones anyway, which are still useful if you care about using trophies to increase replayability.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Clearly those games made by Nintendo with trophy walls, medals, and such aren't achievements!
Not having a tracker != not having an achievement.
Are you saying that unlockables in Smash == Achievements?
Because you know the only difference between SSBB and SSBM is that the unlockable list is actually visible.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
You do know that the "trophy wall" is pretty much achievements, right? It's much more distinct than the typical Smash unlocking.
The Mana Legend
Banned
The only problem with Steam is that no one cares about the achievements at all. They don't build up to an overall score or rating, so a lot of it seems pointless, which turns a lot of people off.
I don't mind that since I greatly prefer Activity Logs over achievements, but I never go out of my way to get an achievement in a Steam game even if I love the game to death.
Baconsammy
Banned
Achievements aren't a major source of addiction. Gaming is. The notion that Nintendo is avoiding achievements because they're addictive and they care too much about the well being of children is just silly. If that were true, why does Pokemon exist?
I think what people call achievements are mainly meaningless stuffs where the only reward is the popup and 'good job' stuff that appear on the screen.
The rest is clearly unlockables, we had that for decades so I'm not changing the word I've been using all that time just to please some people on the web.
ScreenSplitter
Member
Aw man, now I won't get an annoying pop-up when I beat World 1 in NSMBU. And World 2. And World 3.
The way I think it'll be done is that you'll get a popup asking you if you want to share that with friend.
So instead of "Good job on beating lvl1", it'll be "Good job on beating lvl1, would you want to share it on Miiverse?"
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
And yet they pretty much act like one (e.g. clear all star without using health). Hell, even way back in Star Ocean 3 battle trophies are your de-facto achievements and they unlock stuff.
Just because the mainstream approach utilizes it poorly doesn't mean it's not applicable to those doing it properly.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
I still think there is a small probability of them actually existing, but being in the OS update this week.
BELIEVE
BELIEVE
Baconsammy
Banned
Yes you will, but now it will be in the form of Miiverse messages. Unless you turn them off. Just like achievements. Amazing what CHOICE and OPTIONS provide.
If no one cared, devs wouldn't go out of their way to include them. Instead, an increasing number of Steam games has achievements, even indie games. There some doujin games that didn't have achievements in their original release and were added when they came out on Steam.
ok... enough...
this is what's gonna happen and you know it's true.
1. WiiU is released
2. Nintendo implements Acomplishments in their games. (no gamerscore or similar)
3. Can't be turned off (like the 3ds)
4. Shares on MiiVerse, shares on MiiVerse everywhere
5. Third parties follow the same system
6. People who only had a Wii this gen will love this and will get hooked
7. People who only had a Wii this gen will post how awesome this system is
8. People who only had a Wii this gen will defend acomplishments to death, and will be convinced that they are a thousand better than PS360 stuff because of miiverse
9. Someone makes a thread about it
10. NeoGaf explodes.
search your heart, you know it's true.
this is what's gonna happen and you know it's true.
1. WiiU is released
2. Nintendo implements Acomplishments in their games. (no gamerscore or similar)
3. Can't be turned off (like the 3ds)
4. Shares on MiiVerse, shares on MiiVerse everywhere
5. Third parties follow the same system
6. People who only had a Wii this gen will love this and will get hooked
7. People who only had a Wii this gen will post how awesome this system is
8. People who only had a Wii this gen will defend acomplishments to death, and will be convinced that they are a thousand better than PS360 stuff because of miiverse
9. Someone makes a thread about it
10. NeoGaf explodes.
search your heart, you know it's true.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
That's my favourite part.
I don't anyone here is complaining about the fact that games have unlockables or achievements but more about the fact that the data of the achievements are used for the meta game system wide.
I mean sure SO3 have unlockables working like trophies (btw most KH games post KH2 have them too...on all systems that have NO achievement tracking to boot) but the system it's on doesn't have the system wide system which is pretty much what people are hating here.
Heck you can share the trophies you earned on FB for all to see and I can tell you that as far as I'm concerned no one is using that (which would be a good indicator that it's not that big a deal it's not system wide if they're not shared on the biggest social network out there, feel free to prove me wrong with hard data here)
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Oh I understand that, I'm talking more about how apparently the Wii U doesn't have achievements.
Makes you wonder if they play games in Steam. You don't have a gamescore there, and it only functions to inform you that x player got y achievement... but only if you search through your friends' recent ventures. But I guess the word "achievement" made them think Steam functions like 360.
only one of my friends do that... and it's really easy to block those notifications on FB.
also, he's a douche.
Bony Manifesto
Member
But the critical part is that all your friends achievements are automatically uploaded, and you can look through their game collection and directly compare their progress to your own. Unless I'm missing something, such functionality is assumed not to exist in Nintendo's implementation.
That's basically how I view people who do that yes, so I'm not sure that's actually a good thing for achievement or gaming in general...
I'm pretty sure it have achievements, after all it's been implemented in PS2/DS/PSP games so there will be there I think (I would even bet that the code to make a standard achievement system is provided by Nintendo themselves...or they're dumber than I thought, don't quote me on this though).
I'm pretty sure there's a system in place to share them in the Miiverse, there's just no global tracking system.
And I can't say I'll miss that honestly.
You can point and laugh if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that's what Miiverse is for.
Walter Matthau
Member
I'm not against trophies/achievements, but I am against a system wide total score because its biased against those who play difficult games with challenging achievements. If Gamer A only owns Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 and Vanquish and platinums both, he will be behind a gamer who either buys many more games and accomplishes little or a gamer who buys Hanna Montana, Rango, and Megamind and platinums them all. If I look at their score and nothing else, the Hanna Montana gamer appears more skilled, but If im forced to look at their profiles due to a lack of overall score, the Hanna Montana gamer is pathetic (assuming they are not a child).
Bony Manifesto
Member
But I don't see how that can work without standardisation of achievements. If developers are all devising their own systems, exactly what data is the game supposed to pass to Miiverse? More importantly, what type of data is Miiverse expecting to be passed to it?
Wrestlemania
Banned
Well then I hope you're looking forward to developers who decide to do their own implementation of achievements where the pops ups either can't be blocked or have to be blocked on a game by game basis.
Plenty of reasonable reasons to be fine with Nintendo's decision not to have system wide achievements, looking forward to not having pop ups isn't one of them.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
I'm with you man!
It's not happening
If I'm right can I have a cookie please?
Hell, if you're right we can share a bag of cookies.
I know I'm in the minority, but the lack of system-wide achievements is a huge plus for me.
I'm completionnist enough to avoid playing games I know I won't play enough for 100%. I can't stand having too many low-% in my list. I probably won't totally avoid playing a game because of trophies, but since I have many more games than I can play, I'll play first the ones without trophies or games I will enjoy getting platinum.
I don't understand why you can't disable trophies (if possible on a per-game basis) on other systems. Or rather, I understand perfectly why you can't, it's obviously a way to advertise games, and they won't allow you to disable free advertisement...
I'm completionnist enough to avoid playing games I know I won't play enough for 100%. I can't stand having too many low-% in my list. I probably won't totally avoid playing a game because of trophies, but since I have many more games than I can play, I'll play first the ones without trophies or games I will enjoy getting platinum.
I don't understand why you can't disable trophies (if possible on a per-game basis) on other systems. Or rather, I understand perfectly why you can't, it's obviously a way to advertise games, and they won't allow you to disable free advertisement...
the idea of the trophies/achievements is to make you return to the game to keep playing it... in a way, you are getting more value for your money, I really don't get why people are getting so defensive with the subject.
if a game offers acomplishments, you can CHOOSE to ignore them...
if a game doesn't offer acomplishments, there WON'T BE any acomplishment to ignore.
that's what the whole thing is all about...
See my next post which was right above yours. That isn't a forced system-wide implementation that involves a rank for number of trophies. Individual games can get away with it. I never suggested a tracker was necessary, quite the opposite actually.
That...was specifically covered. (on this page)
And trophy 'hunting' can be addicting especially for a lot of younger ones, I mean I would have thought that would be uncontested tbh. It's not silly either, Nintendo has a lot riding on being child friendly and a pretty safe gaming choice for parents.
As I said, I'd expect them to still use achievements more, but more so in the games with higher age ratings - which imo is the right thing to do anyway.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Then it's a tracker problem then.
Makes you wonder how many people would hate Steam here.
Walter Matthau
Member
What you see as value added, others see as something they do not want altogether. If I buy a game that is both single player and multiplayer, I can chose to ignore one or the other game mode. With achievements, I am forced to have an achievement/trophy score against my will. Gamers play games for competitive enjoyment and probably dislike losing more than most of the rest of the population. For them to "ignore" that they have less achievements than the rest of their friends mights not be as simple as you think.
If you don't think trophies or achievements distort the way we play games in a sometimes negative way then you have never been to a trophy site. Instead of going through a game normally and experiencing it for its own value, people read a guide in advance to know exactly what to do and when to maximize trophies and not miss any along the way. Then to get some wins for multiplayer they boost with buddies. Once they hit 100%, they move on to the next game even if this one has more to offer. They might ignore content that offers no trophies (PS1 classics, PS2 classics, Minis, etc.), because it doesn't add to their score. They might even ignore games or better versions of games on other consoles they own because it doesn't contribute to their score. They might ignore a game with challenging trophies because they might not be gifted enough to platinum the game or it takes too long to platinum the game versus other games being offered.
I have mixed feelings against achievements in general, but I certainly do not endorse a system-wide score for the reasons listed above. Simply put, it puts you into a competition you didn't sign up for. At least with individual game achievements, you are only put into competition for that specific title. Even then, I feel its the responsibility of the game developers to create achievements that 1) Can not be boosted, 2) Can be achieved without having to look at a guide in advance of playing the game, and 3) Highlight the fun aspects of the game rather than forcing the buyer to go through redundant tasks like grinding for loot or playing the game multiple times instead of stacking difficulties.
I honestly doubt nintendo couldn't implement it if they decided to..if that is what you were suggesting by a tracker problem? I'm sure they realise many gamers would appreciate systemwide trophies - it can only be that they think it could set off bad press as they know parents would see it as setting a bad example..
Ideally it'd be system-wide and age-restricted if that was actually the problem..not like they can really enforce that though - might be safer to leave it to mature in-game ones.
Also why would people hate steam here?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Because the very reason they're complaining is similar to Steam. And I love how Steam does achievements.
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