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[Forsaken82]

I'll believe it when I see it.

Just going to throw this out there. I was able to play UT3 on hardware from 2002 (maybe even earlier) (pc of course). The reason why I bring this up is because that was on hardware NOT designed with modern shader tech, not utilizing a multicore CPU structure and running off of about 2 gigs of slow ass RAM, among other bottle necks, and all the while, i managed to make the game playable at over 30 FPS.

Now keep in mind, it didn't look pretty, but again, this was on extremely dated technology. The Wii U has a mostly modern GPU, a multicore CPU at a decent (if not fantastic) clock speed and correct me if I am wrong, but a decent amount of RAM for a home console. The Wii U is more modern than many of you will allow yourself believe. Maybe its just the fanboy in you, maybe its just your perception of Nintendo. Now don't get me wrong, I am well aware, PC Architectures are different from console architectures, so in no way am I saying that UE4 is a lock on the Wii U because of my analysis of generations old technology powering software beyond its prime.

However, I have never been of the mind that the Wii U was underpowered. I also never thought the Wii U was going to be more powerful than the PS4 and the 720, but knowing what I know about next gen engines (UE4 in particular, based on what we have heard from Epic), I still can't find any reason why the Wii U would never have been able to pull it off.

So let me end this by simply saying, I don't need to play a wait and see game. I do believe that by the end of the Wii U's life, at least one UE4 title will have been made for it. It can't be said enough. The Wii U is not in the same position the Wii was

 

[tkscz]

Just going to throw this out there. I was able to play UT3 on hardware from 2002 (maybe even earlier) (pc of course). The reason why I bring this up is because that was on hardware NOT designed with modern shader tech, not utilizing a multicore CPU structure and running off of about 2 gigs of slow ass RAM, among other bottle necks, and all the while, i managed to make the game playable at over 30 FPS.

Now keep in mind, it didn't look pretty, but again, this was on extremely dated technology. The Wii U has a mostly modern GPU, a multicore CPU at a decent (if not fantastic) clock speed and correct me if I am wrong, but a decent amount of RAM for a home console. The Wii U is more modern than many of you will allow yourself believe. Maybe its just the fanboy in you, maybe its just your perception of Nintendo. Now don't get me wrong, I am well aware, PC Architectures are different from console architectures, so in no way am I saying that UE4 is a lock on the Wii U because of my analysis of generations old technology powering software beyond its prime.

However, I have never been of the mind that the Wii U was underpowered. I also never thought the Wii U was going to be more powerful than the PS4 and the 720, but knowing what I know about next gen engines (UE4 in particular, based on what we have heard from Epic), I still can't find any reason why the Wii U would never have been able to pull it off.

So let me end this by simply saying, I don't need to play a wait and see game. I do believe that by the end of the Wii U's life, at least one UE4 title will have been made for it.

Just want you to put up your flame shield, gaf MIGHT attack you.

 

[Forsaken82]

Just want you to put up your flame shield, gaf MIGHT attack you.

I thought GAF was a bunch of Nintendo fanboys, they should be praising me for my optimism!

 

[tkscz]

I thought GAF was a bunch of Nintendo fanboys, they should be praising me!

Gaf is full of fanboys alright, no doubt about that.

 

[Meelow]

Just going to throw this out there. I was able to play UT3 on hardware from 2002 (maybe even earlier) (pc of course). The reason why I bring this up is because that was on hardware NOT designed with modern shader tech, not utilizing a multicore CPU structure and running off of about 2 gigs of slow ass RAM, among other bottle necks, and all the while, i managed to make the game playable at over 30 FPS.

Now keep in mind, it didn't look pretty, but again, this was on extremely dated technology. The Wii U has a mostly modern GPU, a multicore CPU at a decent (if not fantastic) clock speed and correct me if I am wrong, but a decent amount of RAM for a home console. The Wii U is more modern than many of you will allow yourself believe. Maybe its just the fanboy in you, maybe its just your perception of Nintendo. Now don't get me wrong, I am well aware, PC Architectures are different from console architectures, so in no way am I saying that UE4 is a lock on the Wii U because of my analysis of generations old technology powering software beyond its prime.

However, I have never been of the mind that the Wii U was underpowered. I also never thought the Wii U was going to be more powerful than the PS4 and the 720, but knowing what I know about next gen engines (UE4 in particular, based on what we have heard from Epic), I still can't find any reason why the Wii U would never have been able to pull it off.

So let me end this by simply saying, I don't need to play a wait and see game. I do believe that by the end of the Wii U's life, at least one UE4 title will have been made for it. It can't be said enough. The Wii U is not in the same position the Wii was

Thank you

 

[Smurfman256]

Just going to throw this out there. I was able to play UT3 on hardware from 2002 (maybe even earlier) (pc of course). The reason why I bring this up is because that was on hardware NOT designed with modern shader tech, not utilizing a multicore CPU structure and running off of about 2 gigs of slow ass RAM, among other bottle necks, and all the while, i managed to make the game playable at over 30 FPS.

Now keep in mind, it didn't look pretty, but again, this was on extremely dated technology. The Wii U has a mostly modern GPU, a multicore CPU at a decent (if not fantastic) clock speed and correct me if I am wrong, but a decent amount of RAM for a home console. The Wii U is more modern than many of you will allow yourself believe. Maybe its just the fanboy in you, maybe its just your perception of Nintendo. Now don't get me wrong, I am well aware, PC Architectures are different from console architectures, so in no way am I saying that UE4 is a lock on the Wii U because of my analysis of generations old technology powering software beyond its prime.

However, I have never been of the mind that the Wii U was underpowered. I also never thought the Wii U was going to be more powerful than the PS4 and the 720, but knowing what I know about next gen engines (UE4 in particular, based on what we have heard from Epic), I still can't find any reason why the Wii U would never have been able to pull it off.

So let me end this by simply saying, I don't need to play a wait and see game. I do believe that by the end of the Wii U's life, at least one UE4 title will have been made for it. It can't be said enough. The Wii U is not in the same position the Wii was

What exactly WERE your hardware specs?

 

[antonz]

Just going to say going back to UE4. Its much more multigenerational than people will likely expect.

 

[Schnozberry]

The Wii U is not in the same position the Wii was.

Yeah, I don't think it is either. The distance between Durango/Orbis and the Wii U is not as big as the distance between the PS360 and the Wii. I think your PC analogy is apt, as these architectures aren't wholly dissimilar, and modern engine scalability should make for very playable games on Wii U, if not as shiny as they could be. I've been in a similar situation where I was stretching PC hardware due to not wanting to shell out big money, and I've never felt like playing a game with some reduced effects or resolution completely ruined it for me. I'm not a pixel counter or a graphics whore though.

 

[Forsaken82]

What exactly WERE your hardware specs?

intel P4 3.0ghz CPU, Radeon 9800 (or maybe it was a 9600 I DON'T REMEMBER, IT WAS SO LONG AGO!!) And god knows the type of ram. All i know it was a Dell XPS that I bought around the time Half Life 2 was announced (maybe it was 2003?)

 

[Smurfman256]

intel P4 3.0ghz CPU, Radeon 9800 (or maybe it was a 9600 I DON'T REMEMBER, IT WAS SO LONG AGO!!) And god knows the type of ram. All i know it was a Dell XPS that I bought around the time Half Life 2 was announced (maybe it was 2003?)

yeeouch...

 

[Forsaken82]

yeeouch...

I do remember, I actually upgraded to that 2gigs ram around the release of UT3, becuase i was still rolling 512.

I made that beast last me over 6 years.

 

[tkscz]

Yeah, I don't think it is either. The distance between Durango/Orbis and the Wii U is not as big as the distance between the PS360 and the Wii. I think your PC analogy is apt, as these architectures aren't wholly dissimilar, and modern engine scalability should make for very playable games on Wii U, if not as shiny as they could be. I've been in a similar situation where I was stretching PC hardware due to not wanting to shell out big money, and I've never felt like playing a game with some reduced effects or resolution completely ruined it for me. I'm not a pixel counter or a graphics whore though.

Sadly, a good chunk of Gaf is. I'm a PC gamer and even I don't really care about graphics that much. If I could, I would stick with my GTX 460 for a bit longer, hell would've stuck with my GTX 9800, that thing could handle a shit ton, including Crysis/Crysis 2.

 

[Forsaken82]

Sadly, a good chunk of Gaf is. I'm a PC gamer and even I don't really care about graphics that much. If I could, I would stick with my GTX 460 for a bit longer, hell would've stuck with my GTX 9800, that thing could handle a shit ton, including Crysis/Crysis 2.

The problem with that mentality is that the graphics aren't going to make the jump alot of people expect. There will be alot of these so called graphics whores who can't tell the difference between Halo 4 and the cheats it uses with lighting and shadows and Halo 5 which will likely utilize 100% real time lighting, shadows and reflections. These same people will then bitch about how the graphics don't look any different, not realize that there is more going on here. There will be a select group of gamers who will see the next gen details, but I do believe the majority will be blind to it and bitch about why Gears of War 4 looks like Gears of War 3 simply because outside of the superior particle systems, increased NPC on screen, the game looks aesthetically similar, despite not having and prebaked effects, rendering every (or at least most) effects in real time. They won't notice something like that building right infront of you is actually reflecting itself in real time as you move around that giant puddle next to you.

it is when you put things like this into perspective you realize this is how Wii U will manage something like UE4. It might require a few more cheats, just like current gen, but I think for the most part, it will be capable of reaching Samaritan level realism, which Epic tooted as UE 3.5 if i recall, but that whole demo basically shared many of the aspects of UE4.

Chastize me all you want GAF, i can take it.

 

[Forsaken82]

They said it was 3.9... But that's all I ever wanted from Wii U. If it could run 3.9 Samaritan and Zelda HD demo I will be fine don't care about anything else.

What ever they called it, my point still stands. I expect to see the majority of those effects on Wii U

 

[OryoN]

About Gearbox using Unreal Engine 4 for game coming to Wii U...

If true, I'm not surprised that it's Gearbox Software. They've been pretty vocal and positive about the Wii U and it's modest capabilities. Having worked on one technically decent game, they would no doubt have a much better idea of how to get more out of this console.

I'd hope this rumor was true because it would put to rest the tiring debate about Wii U being in the same situation as Wii from a performance perspective, even though it's so obvious to see why it's not the same case. The second reason I'd hope it's true is; it could encourage some developers to look more seriously into Wii U's potential.

It seems that a few studios, under the guise of "politics", already write the console off, as though they've already pushed it to the limits (but bent over backwards, for 3+ yrs, trying to get decent performance from PS3. Funny aint it?). Even the Metro: Last Light dev that made- and later clarified - that " horribly slow CPU" comment, admitted that their look into the console's capability was early on and not very extensive.

Anyway, things do seem positive. As some said, Unreal 4 engine on Wii U was already strongly hinted at - by someone credible - in the speculation threads. Now this. Where there's smoke...

 

[VariantX]

Just going to throw this out there. I was able to play UT3 on hardware from 2002 (maybe even earlier) (pc of course). The reason why I bring this up is because that was on hardware NOT designed with modern shader tech, not utilizing a multicore CPU structure and running off of about 2 gigs of slow ass RAM, among other bottle necks, and all the while, i managed to make the game playable at over 30 FPS.

Now keep in mind, it didn't look pretty, but again, this was on extremely dated technology. The Wii U has a mostly modern GPU, a multicore CPU at a decent (if not fantastic) clock speed and correct me if I am wrong, but a decent amount of RAM for a home console. The Wii U is more modern than many of you will allow yourself believe. Maybe its just the fanboy in you, maybe its just your perception of Nintendo. Now don't get me wrong, I am well aware, PC Architectures are different from console architectures, so in no way am I saying that UE4 is a lock on the Wii U because of my analysis of generations old technology powering software beyond its prime.

However, I have never been of the mind that the Wii U was underpowered. I also never thought the Wii U was going to be more powerful than the PS4 and the 720, but knowing what I know about next gen engines (UE4 in particular, based on what we have heard from Epic), I still can't find any reason why the Wii U would never have been able to pull it off.

So let me end this by simply saying, I don't need to play a wait and see game. I do believe that by the end of the Wii U's life, at least one UE4 title will have been made for it. It can't be said enough. The Wii U is not in the same position the Wii was

Here's the question, is epic going to actually take the time and money out to build a version of this engine and optimize it to take advantage of the Wii U's strengths, or will they just do nothing and leave it up to the developers to do so on a case by case basis?

 

[Forsaken82]

Here's the question, is epic going to actually take the time and money out to build a version of this engine and optimize it to take advantage of the Wii U's strengths, or will they just do nothing and leave it up to the developers to do so on a case by case basis?

They don't need to. A licensor needs only license the engine and iterate on it themselves.

edit: i see you already touched on that before I finished reading your post

If Epic should develop a game for Wii U, than yes I could see them optimizing themselves, but I doubt they will

 

[Schnozberry]

What ever they called it, my point still stands. I expect to see the majority of those effects on Wii U

I hope we get pleasant news from the photo that we purchased. If we get close to 500 Gflops out of the Wii U GPU (which is the top end of expectations), I think we will see some great looking games from both Nintendo and 3rd parties.

The GPU is certainly more capable from a features standpoint than what we saw from the PS3 and 360. Hell, the other thread on the board for the 60fps Wonderful 101 trailer shows a lot of promise.

 

[tkscz]

The problem with that mentality is that the graphics aren't going to make the jump alot of people expect. There will be alot of these so called graphics whores who can't tell the difference between Halo 4 and the cheats it uses with lighting and shadows and Halo 5 which will likely utilize 100% real time lighting, shadows and reflections. These same people will then bitch about how the graphics don't look any different, not realize that there is more going on here. There will be a select group of gamers who will see the next gen details, but I do believe the majority will be blind to it and bitch about why Gears of War 4 looks like Gears of War 3 simply because outside of the superior particle systems, increased NPC on screen, the game looks aesthetically similar, despite not having and prebaked effects, rendering every (or at least most) effects in real time. They won't notice something like that building right infront of you is actually reflecting itself in real time as you move around that giant puddle next to you.

it is when you put things like this into perspective you realize this is how Wii U will manage something like UE4. It might require a few more cheats, just like current gen, but I think for the most part, it will be capable of reaching Samaritan level realism, which Epic tooted as UE 3.5 if i recall, but that whole demo basically shared many of the aspects of UE4.

Chastize me all you want GAF, i can take it.

Honestly, UE4 tech-demo wasn't all that to begin with. It was suppose to make UE3.9 look like shit, it did no such thing. And yeah, pre-baked or real-time means all of jack shit when they look the exact same. I never got the hype over whether it's real time or pre-baked.

 

[Forsaken82]

Honestly, UE4 tech-demo wasn't all that to begin with. It was suppose to make UE3.9 look like shit, it did no such thing. And yeah, pre-baked or real-time means all of jack shit when they look the exact same. I never got the hype over whether it's real time or pre-baked.

And here is where we disagree.

Do you also share this mentality when it comes to AI? For instance, lets say GTA VI looks no different from GTA V, save for the increased number of NPCs walking around. These NPCs each have unique AI Scripts that allows them to think for themselves and simply live in the world realistically. They have their own daily routines basically. Does that not appeal to you either? (this is something i expect the Wii U to struggle with)

In my opinion this is another aspect that falls into that familiar yet different that I expect from games on next gen systems.

 

[big youth]

whatever issues U has in the future won't compare to those of Wii. U isn't quite as outdated, it's HD capable, and has enough power for the majority of devs.

 

[Earendil]

Here's the question, is epic going to actually take the time and money out to build a version of this engine and optimize it to take advantage of the Wii U's strengths, or will they just do nothing and leave it up to the developers to do so on a case by case basis?

Epic won't do any more than they absolutely have to.

 

[japtor]

And here is where we disagree.

Do you also share this mentality when it comes to AI? For instance, lets say GTA VI looks no different from GTA V, save for the increased number of NPCs walking around. These NPCs each have unique AI Scripts that allows them to think for themselves and simply live in the world realistically. They have their own daily routines basically. Does that not appeal to you either? (this is something i expect the Wii U to struggle with)

In my opinion this is another aspect that falls into that familiar yet different that I expect from games on next gen systems.

Stuff like that I tend to file under promises vs reality. Until something like that gets delivered and actually proves itself, I'd be more excited about the likelihood of hilarious glitches rather than the developer's intentions.

 

[VIDEOGAMESYAY]

whatever issues U has in the future won't compare to those of Wii. U isn't quite as outdated, it's HD capable, and has enough power for the majority of devs.

for this generation, sure. I'd be more concerned about next generation, when it will almost certainly be left behind by the competition. that's when the relative comparisons to Wii gain much more traction.

 

[OryoN]

And here is where we disagree.

Do you also share this mentality when it comes to AI? For instance, lets say GTA VI looks no different from GTA V, save for the increased number of NPCs walking around. These NPCs each have unique AI Scripts that allows them to think for themselves and simply live in the world realistically. They have their own daily routines basically. Does that not appeal to you either? (this is something i expect the Wii U to struggle with)

In my opinion this is another aspect that falls into that familiar yet different that I expect from games on next gen systems.

Sometime mid last year, I was reading a tech article on advancing AI, and interestingly(to me, at least), the programmer stated something to the effect of: Good AI can actually take up relatively little resources, and that today's main limiting factor(for AI) isn't CPU power, but the efficiency of the code/scripts themself.

I'm paraphrasing, and I don't know to what extent are those statement true, but perhaps someone can confirm the general idea behind this?

 

[Forsaken82]

Sometime mid last year, I was reading a tech article on advancing AI, and interestingly(to me, at least), the programmer stated something to the effect of: Good AI can actually take up relatively little resources, and that today's main limiting factor(for AI) isn't CPU power, but the efficiency of the code/scripts themself.

I'm paraphrasing, and I don't know to what extent are those statement true, but perhaps someone can confirm the general idea behind this?

Good AI is one thing, but i would be curious if this developer said the same thing about good AI for hundreds of NPCs with complex (and individual) routines? If I am not mistaken, Kameo was a game this generation that had individual AI for the dozens of enemies on screen during the battlefield sequences(please correct me if i'm wrong) but their actual routines were not that complex. I will be curious to see Watch Dogs when it is completed (or closer to completion) to see if the indiviuality of the NPCs is limited to a visual drivers license with their name and adress on it, or if they actually have unique daily routines (much like a Sim, but on a grander scale)

I find it difficult to believe that this sort of thing would not be taxing on the CPU.

I should also reiterate just incase someone thinks I know shit (or are simply full of it), I don't know whether or not this is the sort of stuff we will see next gen or not (including Wii U), but in my opinion, these are the areas I hope to see expanded upon. I could care less about graphical fidelity. I am content with where we currently are. I want more of the stuff that happens behind the scenes.

 

[Meelow]

not even in the same class... even with what we know it wont be in the same class. from what i gather (feel free to correct me if im wrong) the ps4 and 720 are looking to be at BEST aboout 7 times more powerful than Wii U. the Wii was lagging about 20x behind ps360 and thats not just including power thats outdated architecture. now Wii U could be 7 times less powerful but its "ARCHITECTURE" will not be it should be able to pull off the same tricks as ps4 and 720 just a less powerful system to pull off those tricks. like i said get a developer that gives a damn and they will create great looking games. Wasnt it Ideaman that said there will be jaw dropping games on Wii U "EVEN" after ps4 and 720 has games on the market. i beleieve nintendo (EAD and RETRO) are gonna show developers that the system is more than capable. especially if the crazy retro rumor from like 4 months back is correct which i doubt...

Ah, you mean the rumor about Epic being unsure if they would want Wii U in their future plans because of the specs and than Retro showed them a game that was heavily focused on the graphics (or something) and Epic was impressed and made sure the Wii U would support UE4.

I hope that's true.

http://gengame.net/2012/09/rumor-retro-studios-is-working-on-game-engines-for-wii-u/

 

[ugoo18]

Ah, you mean the rumor about Epic being unsure if they would want Wii U in their future plans because of the specs and than Retro showed them a game that was heavily focused on the graphics (or something) and Epic was impressed and made sure the Wii U would support UE4.

I hope that's true.

http://gengame.net/2012/09/rumor-retro-studios-is-working-on-game-engines-for-wii-u/

E3 should reveal all, hopefully but damm that's a long wait.

 

[deviljho]

but you know they say where there is smoke there is fire.

the only smoke coming is from the Wii U CPU running UE4...

Spoiler

just kidding

 

[FLAguy954]

the only smoke coming is from the Wii U CPU running UE4...

Spoiler

just kidding

Lol that made me laugh

 

[ugoo18]

yeah nintendo has no choice they have to blow our socks off.... and show Wii U can create AMAZING looking games. i expect Retro, 3d mario and Mario kart to be jaw dropping... yes even mario kart a game that isnt known for pushing poloygons.

They better blow our socks off, 2 average E3's in a row. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they were waiting to bring the thunder to the unveiling of the PS4/720 but if nothing shows up.... -_-

Although im not sure if it's even arguably possible for them to steal the spotlight from 2 new console blowouts, unless the blowouts end up like the WiiU's unveiling at the last 2 E3's.

 

[ugoo18]

the only smoke coming is from the Wii U CPU running UE4...

Spoiler

just kidding

lol oh you

 

[Roo]

yeah nintendo has no choice they have to blow our socks off.... and show Wii U can create AMAZING looking games. i expect Retro, 3d mario and Mario kart to be jaw dropping... yes even mario kart a game that isnt known for pushing poloygons.

Retro's game and 3D Mario are a given!!
Mario Kart U...

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

not even in the same class... even with what we know it wont be in the same class. from what i gather (feel free to correct me if im wrong) the ps4 and 720 are looking to be at BEST aboout 7 times more powerful than Wii U. the Wii was lagging about 20x behind ps360 and thats not just including power thats outdated architecture. now Wii U could be 7 times less powerful but its "ARCHITECTURE" will not be it should be able to pull off the same tricks as ps4 and 720 just a less powerful system to pull off those tricks. like i said get a developer that gives a damn and they will create great looking games. Wasnt it Ideaman that said there will be jaw dropping games on Wii U "EVEN" after ps4 and 720 has games on the market. i beleieve nintendo (EAD and RETRO) are gonna show developers that the system is more than capable. especially if the crazy retro rumor from like 4 months back is correct which i doubt...

No way were PS360 20x as powerful as Wii, on paper it was about 8x powerful(PS3 was supposed to be ~10x+ PS2, and Wii was 3x the GC). You cant really put a number on the architecture differences and what that brought. It safe to safe they were at least 10x powerful though probably more. 20x is such an exaggeration, especially in this context where your comparing it to, this upcoming generation. Powerwise(flops, fillrate, ect) the differences are actually looking to be pretty close to the same amount(wii gpu vs ps3 gpu compared to wii u gpu vs Ps4 gpu). Its the features which you mention that are on a much more level playing field this time around. What are the main differences betweem dx10 and dx11.1?

 

[ugoo18]

Speaking of Nintendo engines is it true that what was used for the SMG games was a highly modified version of the SM64 engine and that's what has been mainly used for the Super Mario and Zelda series?

 

[DreadPirateRoberts]

No way were PS360 20x as powerful as Wii, on paper it was about 8x powerful(PS3 was supposed to be ~10x+ PS2, and Wii was 3x the GC)

If the Gamecube was 2x the PS2, and the Wii is 3x the Gamecube, then the PS3 is only x2 the Wii.

PS3 confirmed for under powered, i have math to back it up!

Spoiler

 

[Ryoku]

No way were PS360 20x as powerful as Wii, on paper it was about 8x powerful(PS3 was supposed to be ~10x+ PS2, and Wii was 3x the GC). You cant really put a number on the architecture differences and what that brought. It safe to safe they were at least 10x powerful though probably more. 20x is such an exaggeration, especially in this context where your comparing it to, this upcoming generation. Powerwise(flops, fillrate, ect) the differences are actually looking to be pretty close to the same amount(wii gpu vs ps3 gpu compared to wii u gpu vs Ps4 gpu). Its the features which you mention that are on a much more level playing field this time around. What are the main differences betweem dx10 and dx11.1?

GPU FLOPS alone puts the 360 20x the Wii (12 vs 250?).

Wii U: 300-600 GFLOPS (pessimistic/optimistic)
PS4: 1.4-1.8 TFLOPS (without/with that compute unit thing)

Not saying the difference won't be big. Just putting out a vague FLOPS comparison.

 

[lightchris]

Well what we think we know is direct x 10.1 was the START of Wii u GPU.... thats before Nintendo tweaked it and created something better. im betting that Wii U GPU will have same feature set as Ps4 and 720 but just not as powerful.

This "tweaking" of an architecture you propose is not a simple task and would be done by AMD, with relatively high development costs.
The main reason I see why Nintendo picked such an old architecture in the first place is costs (AMD charged too much for it's newer designs). There's little point in picking an old architecture and then trying to bring it up to an entire new feature set level.
There might be little tweaks to fit it better to the characteristics of the rest of the hardware, but don't expect anything wild.

 

[japtor]

THATS THE ONE!!!!!! but it really sounds to good to be true... but you know they say where there is smoke there is fire. the believeable part for me is that Retro in fact has been tasked with building the in house engine for Wii U... which i cant wait to see in action. i dont believe anything we have seen from nintendo right now is based on that engine. i think the Mario kart, 3d mario and Retro game will all be running on that engine.

If there's any truth to that stuff (god knows the collaboration stuff seems to be happening at least), it reminds me of this from the last investor briefing:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/05.html

Last year we also started a project to integrate the architecture for our future platforms. What we mean by integrating platforms is not integrating handhelds devices and home consoles to make only one machine. What we are aiming at is to integrate the architecture to form a common basis for software development so that we can make software assets more transferrable, and operating systems and their build-in applications more portable, regardless of form factor or performance of each platform. They will also work to avoid software lineup shortages or software development delays which tend to happen just after the launch of new hardware.
Some time ago it was technologically impossible to have the same architecture for handheld devices and home consoles and what we did was therefore reasonable. Although it has not been long since we began to integrate the architecture and this will have no short-term result, we believe that it will provide a great benefit to our platform business in the long run. I am covering this topic as today is our Corporate Management Policy Briefing.

It seems like he's talking about a hardware architecture...but if you consider he might be referring to a software "architecture" (i.e. a middleware engine) it still fits. Well the part about it being impossible with handheld and consoles before seemed off, but remembering that their old platform combos were GC and GBA then Wii and DS where there was a vast difference in capabilities, that part makes sense too.

They better blow our socks off, 2 average E3's in a row. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they were waiting to bring the thunder to the unveiling of the PS4/720 but if nothing shows up.... -_-

Although im not sure if it's even arguably possible for them to steal the spotlight from 2 new console blowouts, unless the blowouts end up like the WiiU's unveiling at the last 2 E3's.

Depends how much the others focus on non gaming functionality, which they'll presumably have more than in any previous console. They'll have all the big games and stuff I imagine, it's just a matter of whether they'll dilute it down with Super Kinect and Extreme Wonderbooks and video streaming or whatever. Or $599. Or $[___]*with a two year contract.

 

[lightchris]

If the Gamecube was 2x the PS2, and the Wii is 3x the Gamecube, then the PS3 is only x2 the Wii.

In terms of GPU and CPU power, Wii was cloked 50% higher than GC while having very similar architectures (with some small improvements). I'd call that 2x Gamecube at most.

GPU FLOPS alone puts the 360 20x the Wii (12 vs 250?).

Not compareable, you can't even measure Wii's GLOPs in the same manner because it has no freely programable shaders.

 

[ColdBlooder]

No way were PS360 20x as powerful as Wii, on paper it was about 8x powerful(PS3 was supposed to be ~10x+ PS2, and Wii was 3x the GC). You cant really put a number on the architecture differences and what that brought. It safe to safe they were at least 10x powerful though probably more. 20x is such an exaggeration, especially in this context where your comparing it to, this upcoming generation. Powerwise(flops, fillrate, ect) the differences are actually looking to be pretty close to the same amount(wii gpu vs ps3 gpu compared to wii u gpu vs Ps4 gpu). Its the features which you mention that are on a much more level playing field this time around. What are the main differences betweem dx10 and dx11.1?

In pure flops the 360 is 20x more powerful.

And thats not even counting the architectual advanatage the PS360 GPUs had. Wii only had a higher clocked Gamecube GPU. While 360 and PS3s gpu had a modern feature set (For their time). Wii didn't have programmable shaders wich 360 and PS3 had. This was one MAJOR disadvantage. So 20x could be even more because of the architectures in use.

Now (IF the rumors are true) the 720 has "only" 2.5-3x the flops and Wii U has NO architectual disadvantage on the GPU part. (Using 476 Gflops for Wii U and 1200GFlops for 720)

The thing that COULD be an issue though, is the 1GB ram for games on Wii U (Out of 2) VS 5 gb of ram on 720 (Out of 8)

 

[ahm998]

In pure flops the 360 is 20x more powerful.

And thats not even counting the architectual advanatage the PS360 GPUs had. Wii only had a higher clocked Gamecube GPU. While 360 and PS3s gpu had a modern feature set (For their time). Wii didn't have programmable shaders wich 360 and PS3 had. This was one MAJOR disadvantage. So 20x could be even more because of the architectures in use.

Now (IF the rumors are true) the 720 has "only" 2.5-3x the flops and Wii U has NO architectual disadvantage on the GPU part. (Using 476 Gflops for Wii U and 1200GFlops for 720)

The thing that COULD be an issue though, is the 1GB ram for games on Wii U (Out of 2) VS 5 gb of ram on 720 (Out of 8)

If nintendo used ati 4770 = 900+ Gflop with Direct X10.1.

We should check wii u gpu teardown first then we can compare it with other consoles.

 

[blu]

about to ask a question that might sound dumb to some. If you drop the Mhz on a chip does that change the GFLOPS. say a chip ran at 800mhz pushing 1tflop... if you dropped it to 550mhz would FLOPS change? sorry dont know much about the customization process

As much as GFLOPS stands for Giga Floating-point Operations per Second, you can make your own conclusion.

As a side note, may I remind people this is the technical discussion thread, and not the game industry politics/advocacy thread?

 

[lightchris]

If nintendo used ati 4770 = 900+ Gflop with Direct X10.1.

Sadly, we already know this is out of the question due to the die size and power consumption.

about to ask a question that might sound dumb to some. If you drop the Mhz on a chip does that change the GFLOPS. say a chip ran at 800mhz pushing 1tflop... if you dropped it to 550mhz would FLOPS change?

Yes, of course. FLOPS = clock * FLOPS/cycle * cores, so it scales linearly with the clock.

 

[ColdBlooder]

If nintendo used ati 4770 = 900+ Gflop with Direct X10.1.

We should check wii u gpu teardown first then we can compare it with other consoles.

Was just using it as an example to clarify that the difference in hardware this time around is alot smaller because last gens gap was GIGANTIC!

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

What if orbis becomes the lead platform for third party games, this would be worse than Durango being the lead right?

 

[ColdBlooder]

What if orbis becomes the lead platform for third party games, this would be worse than Durango being the lead right?

I believe so because Wii U and Durango are more similar that Wii U and Orbis. And the 720 being closer to Wii U in terms of power (IF the rumors are true) then Orbis as the lead platform would be worse for Wii U. Although even the Wii U - Orbis difference is still alot smaller that Wii - PS360.

 

[ahm998]

Was just using it as an example to clarify that the difference in hardware this time around is alot smaller because last gens gap was GIGANTIC!

Sure i used it as an example , It was first rumor for Wii U Gpu .

Right now we don't have any evidence , only we have to wait for Wii U GPU teardown to give the correct answer.

 

[Frankfurter]

GPU FLOPS alone puts the 360 20x the Wii (12 vs 250?).

Wii U: 300-600 GFLOPS (pessimistic/optimistic)
PS4: 1.4-1.8 TFLOPS (without/with that compute unit thing)

Not saying the difference won't be big. Just putting out a vague FLOPS comparison.

Wii was that bad?

 

[wsippel]

Wii was that bad?

You can't use GFLOPS to compare fixed function and programmable hardware.