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Will the Console with Graphics that Burn Brightest Die Off Soonest?

Working mans graphics?

Is that supposed to mean if the systems were people the Xbox one would come home to a crappy house wearing his shirt and tie, hating life. Meanwhile the PS4 rolls in his mansion with a model on either side but is doing heavy drugs so he'll die early? Is that what you meant?

I'd say that you're on the right path yes. "Working man's graphics" means that they're not always as flashy but they get the job done. Kind of like how Bruce Springsteen has been touring for so long. You can see the contrast when you compare him to the social and political figures I mentioned in my first post of the thread.
 

jayu26

Member
Look if we can discuss this matter without regressing to the point of employing brittney Spears gifs that's obviously preferable. So if the ps4 uses everything it has now undee it's hood and more often and with more intensity isn't that still a cause for concern? It sounds like meanwhile the xboxone still has untapped resources in reserve.

Think like this...GTX780 does better graphics than GTX760. Does that mean GTX780 will die faster than GTX760? NO. Why? Because GTX780 is designed for better graphics. Difference between these two consoles does not stem from the fact that PS4 is using its resources more intensely, but because it has more resources than Xbone.
 

nib95

Banned
The performance difference is actually pretty big when you factor in the limitations of the XBO's ESRAM setup; that has been discussed here to death. The latency you are mentioning is not an inherent property of GDDR5 but related to the memory controller configuration in graphics cards; so this issue is non-existent. Furthermore, the reservation of memory for the OS has been challenged by developers on GAF, so we can assume that it has been reduced.

Right. W!CKED made a great post about it here.

W!CKED said:
To make this clear once and for all:

There is no latency difference between DDR3 and GDDR5 when you just look at the bare memory chips itself. The latency difference between DDR3 and GDDR5 comes from the different memory controllers and the different scenarios of usage in PCs. DDR3 is usally used for CPUs while GDDR5 is used for GPUs. 

The main task of GPUs is rendering which requires a lot of bandwidth. GDDR5 is a high performance RAM-type that is able to outperform DDR3 easily in a typical rendering scenario. To make sure that the maximum bandwidth is available most of the time, GPU memory controllers combine many memory accesses to bursts. This is bad for the latency and great for the bandwidth, but since GPUs don't need latency for rendering it doesn't affect performance.

CPUs don't need a lot of bandwidth since they're dealing with computing. DDR3 delivers enough bandwidth for any modern day CPU, so GDDR5 would be overkill for computing. The computing tasks of a CPU are are extremely latency-critical. That's why memory controllers for CPUs work in the complete opposite way as GPU memory controllers. Instead of burst accessing the RAM, you'll make sure that every memory access can happen as immediate as possible. This will kill bandwidth but it will have a positive impact on latency which will eventually increase the computing performance of the CPU.

What does this mean for the PS4?

The PS4 uses a state-of-the-art heterogenous processor architecture from AMD (the so called "HSA") which combines CPU and GPU in one single chip. To ensure that such a heterogeneous processor can deliver maximum bandwidth for rendering and minimum latency for computing, AMD integrates a special DRAM controller. This DRAM controller allows the CPU memory controller to have low latency access while at the same time the GPU memory controller can burst access the RAM. That's why Sony can go for maximum bandwidth with one big GDDR5 RAM pool without having any headaches because of latency.
 
This is not true. GDDR5 is considerably better for gaming performance than DDR3. The latency differences are offset by the raw bandwidth advantages. Add to that, the PS4 actually reserves (according to vetted insiders) 1GB of ram less than the Xbox One does, so if anything it has more ram availability, and much higher bandwidth ram at that. Which in turn means more of it is accessible per frame.

I said it was better, just that it's not a massive difference. The determining factors will be the fact that PS4 reserves more RAM for Games (which I said and you agreed with) and the increased number of GCN cores present in the PS4's GPU. It's the equivalent of comparing CL11 to CL9 RAM (even something like CL11 DDR3-1333 to CL9 DDR3-1866 has little impact) when it comes to gaming, Memory speed really isn't that important all things considered. I've often heard people use it as the defining reason the PS4 is more powerful which is kind of ridiculous.
 

Toparaman

Banned
Sometimes when something or someone emerges in society that is so far ahead of its time they fade out our explode all too soon. Like MLK, JFK, or Mozart. To put it in electoinic terms that relate to videogaming, these men were all fuses who burned so brightly and intensely that their filaments snapped suddenly. Circuitry in any machine operates in a similar manner.

wat.

It's a piece of consumer electronics hardware, not a groundbreaking experimental breakthrough.
 
what if it was though

Then X-Box Jr. would have arrived by now from the future with the necessary code to protect PS4 from the computer virus that killed it in his timeline, and thus left the Earth defenseless against the mobile threat. Unfortunately, he didn't count on how brash and headstrong X-Box Sr. was, and couldn't prevent him from rushing off to try and fight the mobile devices completely unprepared.
 
Think like this...GTX780 does better graphics than GTX760. Does that mean GTX780 will die faster than GTX760? NO. Why? Because GTX780 is designed for better graphics. Difference between these two consoles does not steam from the fact that PS4 is using its resources more intensely, but because it has more resources than Xbone.

I see your point but isn't time going to be the final arbiter of any console's liklihood to be consumed by its own potentually oedipal intense thirst to dazzle with graphics?
 

Orayn

Member
I see your point but isn't time going to be the final arbiter of any console's liklihood to be consumed by its own potentually oedipal intense thirst to dazzle with graphics?

Okay, NOW this is blatant tag fishing.

I said it was better, just that it's not a massive difference. The determining factors will be the fact that PS4 reserves more RAM for Games (which I said and you agreed with) and the increased number of GCN cores present in the PS4's GPU. It's the equivalent of comparing CL11 to CL9 RAM (even something like CL11 DDR3-1333 to CL9 DDR3-1866 has little impact) when it comes to gaming, Memory speed really isn't that important all things considered. I've often heard people use it as the defining reason the PS4 is more powerful which is kind of ridiculous.

It's not a huge difference when it's being used as system memory, but that's not its only use.
 
I have to give Sony credit, they must have really put together an impressive consensus around their piece of machinery if the best the internet has to offer in criticism, going by GAF's front page, is "I'm suspicious about how few bad things I hear about it" and "I'm worried that it's just overworking itself being so awesome."

Tomorrow on GAF: "I don't want to buy a PS4 because I'm worried there will be too many games for it and I won't be able to choose."

This pretty much sums it up. We're jumping at shadows of imagined conspiracy theories.

Edit: After reading more of this thread, this seems more and more like a dumb joke.
 

Radec

Member
Okay, this better be a drunk thread. Right? It has to be.

PS4: GDDR5
Xbox One: DDR3

The main benefit to GDDR5 rather than DDR3 is that GDDR5 has way more bandwidth. The trade off is that it also has way more delay (several times more depending on the brand/manufacturer). Honestly, the performance difference is almost nonexistant, the bigger issue is PS4 has more of its RAM reserved for Games.

LOL.
 

Metfanant

Member
I said it was better, just that it's not a massive difference. The determining factors will be the fact that PS4 reserves more RAM for Games (which I said and you agreed with) and the increased number of GCN cores present in the PS4's GPU. It's the equivalent of comparing CL11 to CL9 RAM (even something like CL11 DDR3-1333 to CL9 DDR3-1866 has little impact) when it comes to gaming, Memory speed really isn't that important all things considered. I've often heard people use it as the defining reason the PS4 is more powerful which is kind of ridiculous.

- Yes the PS4 has more RAM available to games
- Yes the GPU itself is beefier in the PS4

those i can agree with you on...the rest? no way in hell...even MS disagrees with you...otherwise they would not have added the ESRAM in an attempt to solve the DDR3's bandwidth deficiencies
 

gatti-man

Member
Look if we can discuss this matter without regressing to the point of employing brittney Spears gifs that's obviously preferable. So if the ps4 uses everything it has now undee it's hood and more often and with more intensity isn't that still a cause for concern? It sounds like meanwhile the xboxone still has untapped resources in reserve.

How many ways does this need to be answered to you? Both consoles have adequate cooling and both seem to have no design flaws and seemingly have the chance to last equally as long performance wise even though the ps4 has more graphical power.


Your logic is entirely flawed in this thread so far. Just trust us its ok to buy a PS4 or one.

I see your point but isn't time going to be the final arbiter of any console's liklihood to be consumed by its own potentually oedipal intense thirst to dazzle with graphics?

Aaaaaaand I'm being trolled.
 

Lunar15

Member
I see your point but isn't time going to be the final arbiter of any console's liklihood to be consumed by its own potentually oedipal intense thirst to dazzle with graphics?

start-believing-in-troll-threads.jpg


Alright, we're done here.
 

nib95

Banned
I said it was better, just that it's not a massive difference. The determining factors will be the fact that PS4 reserves more RAM for Games (which I said and you agreed with) and the increased number of GCN cores present in the PS4's GPU. It's the equivalent of comparing CL11 to CL9 RAM (even something like CL11 DDR3-1333 to CL9 DDR3-1866 has little impact) when it comes to gaming, Memory speed really isn't that important all things considered. I've often heard people use it as the defining reason the PS4 is more powerful which is kind of ridiculous.

Firstly, read the quote I posted from W!CKED above.

Secondly, memory bandwidth actually determines how much ram can be accessed at any given frame. Xbox One's DDR3 at 68GB/s allowing for 1GB per frame at 60fps, or 2GB per frame at 30fps. The PS4's GDDR5 memory bandwidth at 176GB/s allowing for 3GB at 60fps, and 6GB at 30fps. Quite a difference on a per frame basis.
 
At this point I think you are just taking a piss out us...

Sorry I know I use too many flowery words and adjectives sometimes.

No this is a legit question from a legit thread. I'm just trying to look ahead before I buy a ps4.

Ground Zeros is the one upcoming game I'm psyched for so the debate of Xbone vs ps4 is timely.
 

Ahasverus

Member
I heard original PS3's can't even RUN the new Gran Turismo. That alone is a sign of alarm for me and these next gen consoles.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
I see your point but isn't time going to be the final arbiter of any console's liklihood to be consumed by its own potentually oedipal intense thirst to dazzle with graphics?

That doesn't even make sense in this context. :p
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
what if it was though
Atari 2600 = Master Roshi

NES = Kid Goku
SNES = Teen Goku
N64 = King Kai Training Goku
Gamecube = SSJ1 Goku
Wii = SSJ1 Goku with waggle
Wii U = SSJ2 Goku

Master System = King Piccolo
Genesis = Piccolo Jr.
Saturn = Saiyan Saga Piccolo
Dreamcast = Piccolo fused with Nail

OG XBOX = SSJ Gohan
Xbox 360 = SSJ2 Gohan
Xbone = Mystic Gohan

PS1 = Vegeta
PS2 = Frieza
PS3 = Cell
PS4 = Buu

PC = Dragonballs
 
- Yes the PS4 has more RAM available to games
- Yes the GPU itself is beefier in the PS4

those i can agree with you on...the rest? no way in hell...even MS disagrees with you...otherwise they would not have added the ESRAM in an attempt to solve the DDR3's bandwidth deficiencies

Except that they have always relied on Cache-esque solutions, the Xenos had the exact same thing (in the form of eDRAM granted) and the Xbox despite having what amounted to a Celeron featured additional Cache accessible by the GPU (or maybe it was the CPU since Celerons innately had no Cache). Microsoft has pretty much always done this in the Xbox since it does yield performance benefits--generally. I'm not certain how the APU-based design in Xbox One will handle it, but that ESRAM should be on-die which means there is almost no way it can be a deterent.
 
Sorry I know I use too many flowery words and adjectives sometimes.

No this is a legit question from a legit thread. I'm just trying to look ahead before I buy a ps4.

Ground Zeros is the one upcoming game I'm psyched for so the debate of Xbone vs ps4 is timely.

Go ahead and elaborate on this right here.

Might as well get some fun out of this thread before it's shut down.
 

Havoc2049

Member
The minidisc player I bought never became popular. The atari jaguar i spent 300 dollars on only had a few decent games. The sega game gear was decent but not memorable. I just wonder if the ps4 by virtue of being a "buzz worthy" system can fall into the same pitfall of a console that excels at the moment but is consumed by its own dazzling light.

Too funny!!! ;-D
 

jayu26

Member
Sorry I know I use too many flowery words and adjectives sometimes.

No this is a legit question from a legit thread. I'm just trying to look ahead before I buy a ps4.

Ground Zeros is the one upcoming game I'm psyched for so the debate of Xbone vs ps4 is timely.
Then we have given you enough evidence for why you don't have to worry about PS4. A lot of us were worried that PS4 might run a little hot because of its size, but then this happened...
The PS4 is not only smaller and more powerful, it actually runs cooler too. So no...
The Xbox One got noticeably hotter after continued operation, though; our IR thermometer measured a top temperature of 115 degrees Fahrenheit coming off its top vents compared to about 100 degrees for the PS4.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/...u-need-to-know-in-the-ps4-vs-xbox-one-battle/
PS4 is a really well designed and well engineered piece of hardware.
 
I have never heard it from that view before.
Agreed. I can't say I've heard the more power = more failures argument before.

Did it happen last gen? Assuming that one believes that the PS3 was more powerful (raw number, not accounting for it being an absolute bastard to develop games on), then wouldn't the PS3's failures have eclipsed the RROD issue?

Power doesn't directly correlate to lifespan. Power draw and heat, on the other hand...
 

Orayn

Member
Sorry I know I use too many flowery words and adjectives sometimes.

No this is a legit question from a legit thread. I'm just trying to look ahead before I buy a ps4.

Ground Zeros is the one upcoming game I'm psyched for so the debate of Xbone vs ps4 is timely.

People have given you reasonable answers to your question but you're still rambling about Springsteen, Oedipus, the working man, and hidden reserves of untapped power.
 
The oedipal reference meaning that ones strive to reach greatness ultimately becomes tragic and self fufilling. Not so much the part about oedipus having intercourse with his mother.

OP (if this is indeed a serious thread), you have to realise that the PS4 and the Xbone are not the same pieces of hardware.

The PS4 is stronger, thus is doesn't have to 'work up a sweat' to produce better graphics.

It's not striving to be better than the xbone, it simply is better.
 

ramuh

Member
So working man graphics = serviceable cheaper graphics. This OP was really hard to read through.
 

RexNovis

Banned
I see your point but isn't time going to be the final arbiter of any console's liklihood to be consumed by its own potentually oedipal intense thirst to dazzle with graphics?

WTF?!?! Bad troll is bad. You aren't even making sense now. I mean "potentually oedipal intense thirst" what in the ACTUAL FUCK!?

the-most-interesting-man-in-the-world-meme-generator-i-don-t-always-make-sense-but-when-i-do-i-don-t-c9460e.jpg
 
Lol holy crap never mind. Somehow I got caught up in what simply must be a tag fishing thread. OP, I don't know who's been filling your head with that "untapped power" nonsense, but you should stop listening to them ASAP.
 
Don't worry OP, you are free to pick either. The reason Sony went with GDDR5 is because they know it holds ~40% more pixels than DDR3. This is how they get the 40% improvement without fear of running out of graphics any time soon.
 
The PS4 is stronger, thus is doesn't have to 'work up a sweat' to produce better graphics.

Not florid enough, and it isn't using dated references. You're missing the fun! Here:

"OP, think of it like this: John Cena can lift a heavy man, but he's going to get sweaty doing it because he's kind of a greasy guy. Ric Flair, despite being much smaller, could lift the same man without breaking a sweat, because his ability to perspire was removed as part of the eldritch process that transformed him into an ancient, unstoppable mummy."
 
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