pottymouth
Member
Try to compare with an AMD gpu...6TF is a R9 390x.
If Scorpio releases at $500 it will be DOA regardless of reasonable TF amounts. That's a price point that will start to compete with PCs.
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Windows Central on US December NPD: PS4 sold 1,568,000 (238K Pro), XB1 sold 1,511,000
- Thread starter Nirolak
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onemanasylum
Banned
Ah yes, the old phone compared to console argument. Phones which are subsidized, have vastly more daily function, and are pretty much deemed a necessity. Do you not see how silly that argument is. {Phones sell more in 1 day then what consoles do in years.
Jaguar Victory
Member
I have a Pro and I like it. But then again I liked my 32x. Still I'll be damned if UC4 doesn't look amazing on it. Worth it. Can't wait for Scorpio.
What more function does a new iPhone have over the last iPhone? People buy things out of more than necessity. You just have to show them why they want it. Come on E3.
Today, even on contract it costs an arm and a leg. But anyway, this isn't about phones. People will buy a good product. It's up to MS to sell it as a good product that makes all the "hot" lists for the holidays.
onemanasylum
Banned
People who say they think scorpio will do better then Pro, do you mean Worldwide or just US? If it is worldwide then I'd like to hear the reasoning as I doubt scorpio does half what pro will WW.
hanspampel
Banned
i think Microsoft will got the Apple and Xb360 route
$399 Sku with 500GB HDD and $499 Sku with 2TB HDD instead of just 1 to increase the value perception of the consumer and lead more people to pick up the more expensive Sku. The better margins on the $499 2TB modell will also be able to offset a potential COGS loss for the entry level 500GB modell at just $399
500GB is to less for a console released in 2017? they can easily brag about external HDD support and that many Xbox gamer already have an external HDD, so they wanted to keep the price as low as possible.
That would be at least smart in my opinion
NPD thread. they probably talk about the US market
Ps4 is at 53.4m WW and 17.5m US sales.
so 32,8% of all Ps4 sales are from the US
I think that Scorpio will do a lot better in NA/UK out of the gate due to differences in the approach to marketing the consoles.
Worldwide though, Xbox only has an uphill battle.
Folks, a piece of hardware does not the same in a console as it would off the shelf. That is not how this works. That is not how any of this works. The components don't cost that much.
Scorpio will be competing with PS5, for one thing.
Scorpio will be competing with PS5, for one thing.
Humdinger
Member
Squeaker of a month. Pro didn't sell all that great, but as others have said, it was probably to be expected, given the price points, holiday crowd, lack of marketing, and lack of incentives.
I tend to agree with this (I've omitted the examples, which I think blur the point). I think there will be a significant difference between how MS positions this vs. how Sony positioned the Pro. They will certainly mention the Xbox One and compatibility of titles. But their emphasis will be on how improved it is and how much power is under the hood (compared to how Sony downplayed these), and they will downplay the connection to the Xbox One (compared to how much Sony emphasized the connection to PS4).
This is all just my speculation, of course. We shall see. But I think that would be effective for them. They don't want to distance themselves too much from the original Xbox One, but I can't see them playing it understated (and almost underselling it) like Sony did.
For me, it's just a sense that they are really banking on Scorpio turning perceptions around in the core gamer community. They don't have a lot to boast about on the software front, but they do in terms of hardware. This is their ace in the hole. They have to push it hard. They've got a lot riding on it.
I tend to agree with this (I've omitted the examples, which I think blur the point). I think there will be a significant difference between how MS positions this vs. how Sony positioned the Pro. They will certainly mention the Xbox One and compatibility of titles. But their emphasis will be on how improved it is and how much power is under the hood (compared to how Sony downplayed these), and they will downplay the connection to the Xbox One (compared to how much Sony emphasized the connection to PS4).
This is all just my speculation, of course. We shall see. But I think that would be effective for them. They don't want to distance themselves too much from the original Xbox One, but I can't see them playing it understated (and almost underselling it) like Sony did.
For me, it's just a sense that they are really banking on Scorpio turning perceptions around in the core gamer community. They don't have a lot to boast about on the software front, but they do in terms of hardware. This is their ace in the hole. They have to push it hard. They've got a lot riding on it.
onemanasylum
Banned
Phones are a necessity that sell hundreds of million in a month and more importantly, most get them FREE as they are subsidized and through a contract.....consoles and phones could not be more different, expensive consoles won't have that kind of market force. MS cannot force people to want 4k, which is still a small part of the market, it will have the same issues Pro does.
Maintenance
Member
Scorpio, 8TF and $400?
Well, that's one way to empty that war chest.
I wonder what some of you are even smoking, because without concrete facts this sound like a load of bullshit, secret sauce™ all over again.
Well, that's one way to empty that war chest.
I wonder what some of you are even smoking, because without concrete facts this sound like a load of bullshit, secret sauce™ all over again.
onemanasylum
Banned
It still costs more, what you are suggesting is fan fiction wishes. You cannot get whatever you want and slap a price on it you wish, that is not how any of this works.
pottymouth
Member
I wonder how sales would be effected if they tease the PS5 around the launch of the Scorpio? We've seen how sales suffer when we know a new iteration is coming.
It's possible they scrap the mid-gen upgrade and make the Scorpio the XB2.
The problem would be that MS's next gen will look very similar to last gen's PS4 Pro.
By the time the PS5 will come out it won't be in the same ballpark.
Not to mention the bad blood it will cause with consumers who bought an XB1 for it's generation to end so soon.
People will feel they got burned and not put faith into buying a MS console.
Jaguar Victory
Member
You're repeating the argument I replied to. Show me the free iPhone plan. NEW iPhones aren't a necessity.
Lmao
onemanasylum
Banned
You know people get phones via contracts right? Then when a new one comes out they can easily upgrade for far cheaper then the full price? Almost everyone has a phone and they are seen as a necessity, so people are willing to invest, consoles do not have near the same pull. Comparing phones to consoles is laughable at best. My Galaxt S7 cost 0 Dollars, it will be paid off when my contract is up.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
That's just foreplay bb.
DasPenguin
Member
Incredible comparison. Knocked it put of the park on that one. Need that Jaguars fan gif and need it now.
InsaneTiger
Member
These threads are so fun to read, who needs to play videogames anyway?
BibiMaghoo
Member
Generally, where I live, people get free upgrades to the new phones, or pay a small one time fee and continue their contracts. It is how companies get customers to stay, by essentially giving the new phone away for free and bill you the same as they have for the next 18 months.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Jaguar Victory
Member
Show me. Link me where I can get the new iPhone without paying a few hundred up front.
Killroyskbg
Member
So can you atleast share that to a moderator so we can verify your credentials because the amount of bullshit that have come out of you makes it really hard to belive anything you say.
bryanee
Member
We'll probably be even more price sensitive by the end of this year.
Welfare
Member
Xbox (November 2001 - 2005) 4 years: 24M
Xbox 360 (November 2005 - May 2009) less than 4 years: 30M http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23796
Microsoft could launch a "new gen" this year and get away with it if they distance themselves from the One brand. Won't happen until 2020 or so but they could do it with success.
DasPenguin
Member
Forman European standpoint, this is my 4th iPhone and I haven't paid a penny upfront ever. Same monthly price every month for phone and all the data.
onemanasylum
Banned
Paying a few hundred for a phone is night and day comparing them to consoles , phones are a necessity in todays world, not hard to understand.
https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/$0-Down-iPhone-Deals
Earlier today you were saying PD was still in development, now you're saying they are going for 8TF at $400
What is it you know? Do you have any solid evidence? Otherwise the stuff you're saying lacks any real validity
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Maybe you should think how will it affect PS4+Pro first.
R3TRODYCE
Member
You didn't get the memo? We're all insiders now.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Those are nice numbers for both.
LMAOooooo.
gundamkyoukai
Member
They could distance there self from Xone brand but it won't be like the 360.
It has all the same games and they hardly look better than Pro .
Plus 3rd party won't be dropping PS4 or XB1 anytime soon .
If we were just talking about a 6TF Gpu and an upclocked CPU with modest improvements, I'd agree.
We're not.
We'll have more details soon enough I imagine, but I don't think that Spencer mentionned a 'premium' console so many times for nothing.
Who knows, a RDR bundle could do incredible.
onemanasylum
Banned
No they can't, publishers need to be on board, you cannot use the switch to the HD era generation when that gen was already 6 years as ps2 launched 2 years before. The industry wanted to push into the HD era. It is a different time now. Keep in mind sony was supposed to launch close to 360 but got delayed. That would just damage xbox more, as pubs would still focus on PS4's install base, and the gap between pro and Scorpio would not be that much for it to be a new gen.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
By holiday 2017 XB1S could like be $199 with deal which make $399 already sounds premium.
Gunslinger
Member
Not surprised at how low the pro is selling. IMO it's not worth it (i own a pro). Some games even run worse on pro like Skyrim, FFXV, TLOU etc. What is worth it is a 4k TV IMO. I probably would have still be gaming on my 1080p TV if I didn't have a pro. But because of pro i bought a 4k TV and it's one of the best purchases I have made IMO.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Jaguar Victory
Member
I'm in the same boat. Love my 4k. Like my Pro too though.
Germany doing it sensibly though monthly that's still a good chunk of change. In that same vein I'm sure a lot of folks put their bigger electronics on credit and pay it off over time. If people can afford high end video cards they can afford consoles.
It's like folks aren't aware I work in the industry or something.
Again, I have a very low certainty. I said this up front. It's not unreasonable to expect that a console releasing in 2018 can hit these targets easily.
So, speaking analytically, I don't think Microsoft wants to repeat the Pro. I think Microsoft wants to differentiate the Scorpio from the Xbox One. They've said as much, if I'm not mistaken. So they're already trying to make this like it's a next-gen box. Whether a few folks on the internet are burned about it isn't really a big deal. The average guy on the street, which is the audience that buys consoles, isn't really gonna care about it that much. They're gonna go "wow, a new xbox? and I need it for Madden? cool." This isn't a mid-gen refresh. Microsoft has NEVER positioned it as a mid-gen refresh. That stuff comes mostly from armchair forum posters who don't know anything.
Bad blood isn't gonna be a big deal to most consumers. This generation is going to be short.
Remember, most generations are pretty short. Four years isn't unreasonable at all. Microsoft already did that with the original Xbox, remember? 2001 to 2005? And their next console is still the best-selling HD console of all time, at 84 million units sold. A four year gen isn't a problem at all. And, if the rumors are correct and this puppy gets pushed to 2018, it's a five year gen, which is completely normal. An 8 year cycle is weird.
Basically, Microsoft's always contextualized this as a next-gen. I don't know why anyone would see it as anything else. That's what Microsoft appears to want this to be.
Sure, as long as I'm not asked to violate any NDAs.
What I said was the last official word from MS was that PD was in development. I personally do not know whether that's true or not. I have heard some rumblings that it is. Ya'll then blew that up into "Doc trying to argue that this game is still in devleopment." It's like, no, I've just heard some things. I even said I couldn't speak to their veracity.
Again, I have a very low certainty. I said this up front. It's not unreasonable to expect that a console releasing in 2018 can hit these targets easily.
So, speaking analytically, I don't think Microsoft wants to repeat the Pro. I think Microsoft wants to differentiate the Scorpio from the Xbox One. They've said as much, if I'm not mistaken. So they're already trying to make this like it's a next-gen box. Whether a few folks on the internet are burned about it isn't really a big deal. The average guy on the street, which is the audience that buys consoles, isn't really gonna care about it that much. They're gonna go "wow, a new xbox? and I need it for Madden? cool." This isn't a mid-gen refresh. Microsoft has NEVER positioned it as a mid-gen refresh. That stuff comes mostly from armchair forum posters who don't know anything.
Bad blood isn't gonna be a big deal to most consumers. This generation is going to be short.
Remember, most generations are pretty short. Four years isn't unreasonable at all. Microsoft already did that with the original Xbox, remember? 2001 to 2005? And their next console is still the best-selling HD console of all time, at 84 million units sold. A four year gen isn't a problem at all. And, if the rumors are correct and this puppy gets pushed to 2018, it's a five year gen, which is completely normal. An 8 year cycle is weird.
Basically, Microsoft's always contextualized this as a next-gen. I don't know why anyone would see it as anything else. That's what Microsoft appears to want this to be.
Sure, as long as I'm not asked to violate any NDAs.
What I said was the last official word from MS was that PD was in development. I personally do not know whether that's true or not. I have heard some rumblings that it is. Ya'll then blew that up into "Doc trying to argue that this game is still in devleopment." It's like, no, I've just heard some things. I even said I couldn't speak to their veracity.
Wait, Scorpio delayed? I thought it was due this holiday.
Ehnh, I've heard some rumors it's moving to 2018. I have no idea if they're true or not. I think it's a safer bet to assume Microsoft's not locked into 2017.
If that's true...sigh
Traumnovelle
Member
Wasn't it announced over a year ago that the Phantom Dust remake was fully cancelled and now it's a remaster of the first game akin to Voodoo Vince,
onemanasylum
Banned
Look at them goal posts move, people can afford lots of things, that's irrelevant. There are market forces at play,
Welfare
Member
Thought this would be interesting. XB1 + XB1S (XB1) vs PS4 + PS4 slim (PS4)
September
XB1: 332,800
PS4: 285,300
Gap: 47,500
October
XB1: 329,000
PS4: 235,100
Gap: 93,900
December
XB1: 1,511,000
PS4: 1,330,000
Gap: 181,000
Pro has helped PS4 stay ahead of XB1 this holiday but with the massive drop that is seen in January it will be interesting to see which console(s) hold better.
September
XB1: 332,800
PS4: 285,300
Gap: 47,500
October
XB1: 329,000
PS4: 235,100
Gap: 93,900
December
XB1: 1,511,000
PS4: 1,330,000
Gap: 181,000
Pro has helped PS4 stay ahead of XB1 this holiday but with the massive drop that is seen in January it will be interesting to see which console(s) hold better.