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[BreezyLimbo]

You should read up about WW first. Because otherwise this is pointless.

I havent read up on Batman or Superman or Captain America and I can tell you more about them because theyre naturally interesting and permeate culture in a way WW never will.

Man whos parents are killed and he dons a bat suit to strike fear into enemies? Sure.

Man who is invincible who can perform insane feats and fly? Yeah.

Man who represents America and always stands on the side of the weak and good and punches Nazis? Yes!

Woman who is an amazon made of clay and comes from fake greek land and has a whip? Boring.

 

[Penguin]

Hmm we had this thread in Community before and I'll share some of the same thoughts a week later.

I do think Gal's pregnancy hurt some of their earlier plans. A lot of stuff she has done recently was clearly pre-tapes from months ago. But I also think some of it is an over-reaction to folks say that they were overexposed to Batman v Superman.

That said, I don't think comparing trailers is the best metric, it's a metric but also depends on how you roll it out. Not saying better or worse, but I think launching the Wonder Woman trailer at the Kids' Choice award was something different and played to a diff audience than a lot of other comic movies have.

We know they've done stuff at cons encouraging folks to dress up as here and had a presence at SDCC, NYCC, and Wondercon recently. She is gonna be one of the staples of DC's Free Comic Book Day next weekend, and re-releasing her animated movie next week to commemorate her 75th anniversary.

Again, different audience but they've also pushed her as the face of DC Superhero Girls for some time and has a ton of merch in that regard and around this movie.

They are doing smaller, but diff stuff on IG (not sure if other comic movies have so sorry if old news)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BTWzWPVgcnr/?taken-by=wonderwomanfilm
https://www.instagram.com/p/BTE03ZkAJxS/?taken-by=wonderwomanfilm

That said, I do think they need to ramp up the actual big push campaign. We don't even know when tickets go on-sale, we've heard everything from tomorrow through May 8th. I don't remember seeing commercials, which is always troubling when DC has like half a dozen hours of TV I consume a week.

 

[Boke1879]

Iron Man had no sidekick till the second movie, villains noone remembers and comics noone reads.

This is the once instance I'll say an actor gave the character more charm than it originally had.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Hey Bobby, there are WW TV Spots... just not on the WB Youtube page... which is puzzling.

I'm fairly certain there are TV spots for the other films that are also not being accounted for on the official channels.

I believe the Comic Con trailer for Justice League isn't in the Justice League playlist.

 

[jon bones]

less than 2 years and counting before the real female hero shows up

wont be no thread like this to be made then

 

[Theorry]

I havent read up on Batman or Superman or Captain America and I can tell you more about them because theyre naturally interesting and permeate culture in a way WW never will.

Man whos parents are killed and he dons a bat suit to strike fear into enemies? Sure.

Man who is invincible who can perform insane feats and fly? Yeah.

Man who represents America and always stands on the side of the weak and good and punches Nazis? Yes!

Woman who is an amazon made of clay and comes from fake greek land and has a whip? Boring.

You are all over the place. First it was ideals and now its this?
Just say you are not invested or like WW. Totally fine. Because this makes no sense now.

 

[Lois_Lane]

Iron Man had no sidekick till the second movie, villains noone remembers and comics noone reads.

People read the comics or they wouldn't exist.

The first villian was that asshole Obadiah, and his sidekick was Rhodes/Pepper.

You are all over the place. First it was ideals and now its this?
Just say you are not invested or like WW. Totally fine. Because this makes no sense now.

It makes perfect sense. What's Wonder Woman's hook? Why should I care about her?

 

[SpaceWolf]

less than 2 years and counting before the real female hero shows up

Catwoman?

 

[Jawmuncher]

She's on Dr. Pepper cans. That's the extent of the marketing I've seen.

Was coming in here to post this. It's sadly the only marketing I have seen.
Guardians of the Galaxy seems to be eating up all the summer marketing.
Haven't even seen much for transformers and a lot of other summer films either.

 

[Betty]

Twilight was also popular...

Okay... yeah lots of bad things are popular I guess, sure

I think Harley is a great character though I just don't like how she's been treated since the Asylum games and the live action iteration.

We don't have to agree, hate on the character all you want.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

This is the once instance I'll say an actor gave the character more charm than it originally had.

Not really? If anything RJD just did a perfect portrayal of the comic character. Stark's always had the charm RJD has in the movies.

 

[Oersted]

I havent read up on Batman or Superman or Captain America and I can tell you more about them because theyre naturally interesting and permeate culture in a way WW never will.

Man whos parents are killed and he dons a bat suit to strike fear into enemies? Sure.

Man who is invincible who can perform insane feats and fly? Yeah.

Man who represents America and always stands on the side of the weak and good and punches Nazis? Yes!

Woman who is an amazon made of clay and comes from fake greek land and has a whip? Boring.

Captain America wasn't on Batmans level before the movies. Not even remotely. Iron Man was even lower. Cap had atleast his original release cover. Iron Man had nothing.

They are both now carrying the MCU.

 

[Inferno313]

To be fair her character was almost always sexualized since her inception.

There's a difference between being a sexual character and a sexualized character. I'd argue that Harley was more of the former, than the latter in her initial appearances. There was totally a sexuality to her, but it was tasteful, and reflective of the implied notion that she wasn't getting a lot of attention from The Joker in that department.

Her character has increasingly drifted from being someone who is believably down-to-clown (shoot me), to someone who is regularly used as a pretty clear example of cut-and-dry objectification. There's a fine line there, and awhile ago they decided not just to cross it, but to run as far as they could past it in the shortest amount of time.

 

[SpaceWolf]

There's a difference between being a sexual character and a sexualized character. I'd argue that Harley was more of the former, than the latter in her initial appearances. There was totally a sexuality to her, but it was tasteful, and reflective of the implied notion that she wasn't getting a lot of attention from The Joker in that department.

Her character has increasingly drifted from being someone who is believably down-to-clown (shoot me), to someone who is regularly used as a pretty clear example of cut-and-dry objectification. There's a fine line there, and awhile ago they decided not just to cross it, but to as far as they could past it in the shortest amount of time.

My man! Well said!

 

[Zen_Arcade]

There's a difference between being a sexual character and a sexualized character. I'd argue that Harley was more of the former, than the latter in her initial appearances. There was totally a sexuality to her, but it was tasteful, and reflective of the implied notion that she wasn't getting a lot of attention from The Joker in that department.

Her character has increasingly drifted from being someone who is believably down-to-clown (shoot me), to someone who is regularly used as a pretty clear example of cut-and-dry objectification. There's a fine line there, and awhile ago they decided not just to cross it, but to as far as they could past it in the shortest amount of time.

I'm pretty sure Harley's first appearance in comics has her sleeping with someone for a grade so that she could become a psychiatrist.

I wouldn't call that tasteful.

 

[Oersted]

People read the comics or they wouldn't exist.

The first villian was that asshole Obadiah, and his sidekick was Rhodes/Pepper.


It makes perfect sense. What's Wonder Woman's hook? Why should I care about her?

Neither the comics, nor Obsadiah, nor Rhodes, nor Pepper had cultural relevance. They existed and thats it. The movies made them relevant.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Her character has increasingly drifted from being someone who is believably down-to-clown (shoot me), to someone who is regularly used as a pretty clear example of cut-and-dry objectification. There's a fine line there, and awhile ago they decided not just to cross it, but to run as far as they could past it in the shortest amount of time.

Let me tell you a sexret.

 

[Dalek]

I had no idea this movie was coming out so soon...

 

[Lois_Lane]

Neither the comics, nor Obsadiah, nor Rhodes, nor Pepper had cultural relevance. They existed and thats it. The movies made them relevant.

Ehhhh no. Cap has existed since WW2. Yeah, he might not have been Supes relevant but he was relevant.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

I mean I read her newest book with tye weird zeus baby. It was entertaining but nothing to write home about. T he ending was absolutely rage enducing though.

That's not her latest book. That would be Greg Rucka's Rebirth book. It's bloody good, his run is ending too soon.

 

[jon bones]

Catwoman?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You are all over the place. First it was ideals and now its this?
Just say you are not invested or like WW. Totally fine. Because this makes no sense now.

Im trying to say the ideals of CA, batman, and superman are more known than WW. And thats mainly because you know where they come from. They have ideals that you can tell from face value.

Meanwhile WW is all over the place. Shes some amazonian princess from fake greece who is mainly seen following superman around. Who is she? Nobody knows without checking a wiki of her, because nothing of her ideals are told to you at face value.

And thats fine. Shes just an auxiliary character like cyborg or martian manhunter these days. Shes just not interesting.

Captain America wasn't on Batmans level before the movies. Not even remotely. Iron Man was even lower. Cap had atleast his original release cover. Iron Man had nothing.

They are both now carrying the MCU.

Captain America atleast, you knew where he stood in terms of character and ideals. Even back in the 80s and 90s. Im not talking about Iron Man because all I know is that hes an alcoholic and I abhor alcoholics.

 

[Oersted]

Ehhhh no. Cap has existed since WW2. Yeah, he might not have been Supes relevant but he was relevant.

I didn't talk about Cap in that post?

 

[Dalek]

That's not her latest book. That would be Greg Rucka's Rebirth book. It's bloody good, his run is ending too soon.

Yeah Rebirth Wonder Woman has been great.

 

[Lois_Lane]

That's not her latest book. That would be Greg Rucka's Rebirth book. It's bloody good, his run is ending too soon.

Is it anything like zeus baby because if so I'll pass.

 

[BadAss2961]

Maybe these studios have realized that you cannot market a movie for over $150 million and still make a decent profit. The marketing budgets of these movies are almost as much as the production budgets. Thats fucking ridiculous.

Movies used to sell well just fine before this insane barrage of ads months before the release. People know the movie is coming out. they have seen like three trailers.

A couple of weeks from the movie's release they will start releasing tv and youtube ads and that should do the same thing. it will tell people exactly when it's coming out. And they would do it for a fraction of the $150 million they spent marketing Batman V Superman and Suicide Squad.

This... It's pretty simple.

Wonder Woman doesn't have the budget of BvS or Suicide Squad.

 

[- J - D -]

DC can't get Wondy all over boxes of cheez-its and cereal for some reason but I see that damn raccoon and tree baby all over the place at the grocery store.

 

[kswiston]

This... It's pretty simple.

Wonder Woman doesn't have the budget of BvS or Suicide Squad.

I doubt Wonder Woman ends up being all that much cheaper than Suicide Squad. Maybe $140-160M instead of $175M

 

[Ashhong]

Im trying to say the ideals of CA, batman, and superman are more known than WW. And thats mainly because you know where they come from. They have ideals that you can tell from face value.

Meanwhile WW is all over the place. Shes some amazonian princess from fake greece who is mainly seen following superman around. Who is she? Nobody knows without checking a wiki of her, because nothing of her ideals are told to you at face value.

And thats fine. Shes just an auxiliary character like cyborg or martian manhunter these days. Shes just not interesting.



Captain America atleast, you knew where he stood in terms of character and ideals. Even back in the 80s and 90s. Im not talking about Iron Man because all I know is that hes an alcoholic and I abhor alcoholics.

You know more about characters that you have been exposed to more. News at 11.

I doubt Wonder Woman ends up being all that much cheaper than Suicide Squad. Maybe $140-160M instead of $175M

Is that SS number including all of that marketing?

 

[Alex_Mexico]

I'll go with this one Bobby. Always bet on the fact that no one really has a strong idea on what Wonder Woman *is*

Not everyone might now her full backstory, origin, abilities and whatnot but everyone knows her. Its the third most renowned DC superheroe ever and one of the select AAA elite of all time. My 60 year old mom who has never seen a superhero movie since the original Superman knows who "La Mujer Maravilla" is (thats spanish for Wonder Woman).

And the sad thing is WB might be lining for a self-fulfilling prophecy: this movie will underperform. And theyll blame it on a female lead instead of the fact that it failed critically and/or because of lack of marketing push.

 

[ZOONAMI]

For some reason I thought WW dropped next year. Hmm..

Well, it is still April I guess, but they better start getting commercials out.

I also feel like I barley saw any GOTG2 stuff.

 

[Sulik2]

I think Geoff reads GAF.

I really hope the film is good.

Geoff if you are reading this thread, please give us a Sinestro/Hal buddy cop Green Lantern movie.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Is that SS number including all of that marketing?

Production budgets never include marketing costs.

 

[BadAss2961]

I doubt Wonder Woman ends up being all that much cheaper than Suicide Squad. Maybe $140-160M instead of $175M

I meant more of the marketing budget. Wonder Woman has a much lower ceiling than Suicide Squad, so the marketing blitz isn't going to be as aggressive.

 

[Ashhong]

Production budgets never include marketing costs.

That's what I figured.

 

[N7.Angel]

Honestly ? I don't think people care about her that much, she's a boring sidekick character at best, it's like being hype for a Widow marvel stand alone movie...

I think they should make a Harley Queen stand alone movie though or a Spider-Gwen one, I'll ever take a Phoenix one over any WW movie.

 

[kswiston]

I meant more of the marketing budget. Wonder Woman has a much lower ceiling than Suicide Squad, so the marketing blitz isn't going to be as aggressive.

They still have to launch this film worldwide. The marketing budget will easily be over $100M.


I remember reading something back in 2014 that the original GotG had only spent something like a quarter of its ad budget up until 2-3 weeks before release, at which point they did an ad blitz. I can't find any links to that story now though.

Maybe that is the strategy that WB plans on using for Wonder Woman. One can argue whether or not it was the right one to take though.

 

[Ambient80]

LOL, I love this, perfect response, too.

 

[Penguin]

They still have to launch this film worldwide. The marketing budget will easily be over $100M.


I remember reading something back in 2014 that the original GotG had only spent something like a quarter of its ad budget up until 2-3 weeks before release, at which point they did an ad blitz. I can't find any links to that story now though.

Maybe that is the strategy that WB plans on using for Wonder Woman. One can argue whether or not it was the right one to take though.

I was trying to find info but I swore Disney did something similar with Finding Dory

Like the big push didn't come until the start of June.

 

[kswiston]

I was trying to find info but I swore Disney did something similar with Finding Dory

Like the big push didn't come until the start of June.

That was more or less the case. We discussed it in last year's Box office threads. I guess Ellen was pushing the film earlier than that on her own show.

However, Dory sells itself. Wonder Woman is new to film, and is connected to some films with mixed reception. Getting people talking about it early doesn't hurt.

 

[Armaros]

That was more or less the case. We discussed it in last year's Box office threads. I guess Ellen was pushing the film earlier than that on her own show.

However, Dory sells itself. Wonder Woman is new to film, and is connected to some films with mixed reception. Getting people talking about it early doesn't hurt.

Bingo, Dory just needed to remind people that the movie was coming out and to go see it.

WW needs to persuade people to watch another movie that is part of an already shaky continuity.

Dory had the legacy of Nemo, WW has the legacy of BvS and Suicide Squad, vastely different.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

God.

It's starting to get to the point where I feel like every time I pick up a modern comic book involving Harley Quinn these days, I'm almost always guaranteed to walk away feeling incredibly uneasy about the way she's being characterized. It definitely feels like, over the last few years, DC have really developed this deep-rooted obsession with sexualizing Harley as a character much as possible. forcing her into increasingly skimpy, revealing outfits in comparison to her original harlequin costume, in addition to emphasizing her increasing portrayal a lot of the time as some kind of restless nymphomaniac.

I don't read enough DC comics to know if that's been a general trend with a lot of DC's female characters over the last few years (I know Starfire underwent a similarly horrendous, hyper-sexualised reimagining for New 52) but it strikes me as strange that in many ways, DC seems to be going backwards and not forwards in regards to how progressively it's treating certain members of its female cast.

Yeah your definitely are reading very old DC stuff. Harley doesn't act like that anymore in Rebirth. DC is fairing better with their female superheroes than Marvel.

 

[dawgparty]

Movie might very well blow but this sucks mostly because they're just setting the movie up to bomb. And afterwards everyone will talk about how female-led superhero movies just Don't Work.

Also Gal Gadot does not look like WW to me. Why couldn't they get someone with a more Amazonian look/stature?

 

[Inferno313]

Yeah your definitely are reading very old DC stuff. Harley doesn't act like that anymore in Rebirth. DC is fairing better with their female superheroes than Marvel.

Good to hear!

 

[Theorry]

Movie might very well blow but this sucks mostly because they're just setting the movie up to bomb. And afterwards everyone will talk about how female-led superhero movies just Don't Work.

Also Gal Gadot does not look like WW to me. Why couldn't they get someone with a more Amazonian look/stature?

 

[The Kree]

I get the feeling that there are people in charge who want it to fail so that they have an excuse not to try again. I think those same people will always give Batman and Superman unlimited retries no matter what.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Yeah your definitely are reading very old DC stuff. Harley doesn't act like that anymore in Rebirth. DC is fairing better with their female superheroes than Marvel.

I haven't actually read any Rebirth books involving Harley, so if her character isn't being sullied by any of that nonsense there, that's very encouraging to hear.

However, I'm not really sure I'd refer to the books I'd read where Harley has been treated in the manner I was describing as "very old". Certainly not where the New 52 is concerned.

 

[Waddle Dee]

Maybe WB thinks they really have a bomb for one of two reasons?

-This is either because the movie is terrible (it's a recent DC movie so this is likely).

-It stars a female lead (this isn't likely but I bet this is what WB is thinking).

 

[xxracerxx]

I keep forgetting that this movie 1: Still exists and 2: Hasn't come out yet.

 

[Warm Machine]

The trailers show the movie to have this false look to them almost like Red Sonja did in the 80s when compared to Conan. I have a feeling the movie is a catastrophe.