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[TheShadowLord]

I haven't seen it brought up in news outlets(the same time WHO says video game addiction is a mental illness) so I will link to their twitter page.

http://www.who.int/health-topics/international-classification-of-diseases
Gender incongruence, meanwhile, has also been moved out of mental disorders in the ICD, into sexual health conditions. The rationale being that while evidence is now clear that it is not a mental disorder, and indeed classifying it in this can cause enormous stigma for people who are transgender, there remain significant health care needs that can best be met if the condition is coded under the ICD.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

I didn't know people thought it was.

I don't try to understand anything to be honest. Mostly because I don't think I can necessarily fully understand something I don't deal with.

I am going to treat you as a human being same as I treat everyone else.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Their statement sounds a bit clumsy to me. If they have scientific evidence that it's not a mental disorder, isn't that the only thing that needs to be said? Instead they talk about reducing stigma and improving care. Sure, that's the most important part, offering patients the treatment they need, but that should be the goal of everything this organisation does.

They also admit to listenting to advocacy groups, which shouldn't have anything to do with scientific definitions.

So yeah, I don't know. Seems kinda strange. I'm obviously no expert, so I can't say either way, but it comes off as a political decision rather than one based on scientific research.

 

[BANGS]

Sound like they should change their name to world trending health organization...

 

[kunonabi]

Their statement sounds a bit clumsy to me. If they have scientific evidence that it's not a mental disorder, isn't that the only thing that needs to be said? Instead they talk about reducing stigma and improving care. Sure, that's the most important part, offering patients the treatment they need, but that should be the goal of everything this organisation does.

They also admit to listenting to advocacy groups, which shouldn't have anything to do with scientific definitions.

So yeah, I don't know. Seems kinda strange. I'm obviously no expert, so I can't say either way, but it comes off as a political decision rather than one based on scientific research.

We actually covered this in one of my college courses. There isn't any actual scientific evidence that it isn't a mental disorder but by saying that it isn't it becomes easier to have treatments paid for by insurance companies. This was back in love 2016 though so maybe something new has come out

 

[Greedings]

Something that is associated with the highest level of suicide is not a mental disorder? OK.

 

[manfestival]

Their verbiage sucks. It is like telling me that it is still a mental disorder but they want to label it not to help out those suffering from it.

 

[Moneal]

Their verbiage sucks. It is like telling me that it is still a mental disorder but they want to label it not to help out those suffering from it.

You would think they would do the same for depression, since it has a similar stigma, but that would be ridiculous.

 

[BANGS]

You would think they would do the same for depression, since it has a similar stigma, but that would be ridiculous.

They can market a pill for depression, not so much gender dysphoria... not yet anyways...

 

[Breakage]

So if you feel that you're fatter than you actually are in reality (anorexia), then you have a mental disorder, but if you feel you are a female when you're physically male, your thinking is in line with reality?

 

[LegendOfKage]

We actually covered this in one of my college courses. There isn't any actual scientific evidence that it isn't a mental disorder but by saying that it isn't it becomes easier to have treatments paid for by insurance companies. This was back in love 2016 though so maybe something new has come out

I have a family member who has obsessive compulsive disorder. The reason his medication is paid for by insurance is because how he feels is out of his control. So is the WHO saying something to the effect of "you can't help but feel differently than the more than 99 percent of the population who is cisgender, but what you feel isn't a mental disorder"? If that's the case, either being transgender is a choice (and I don't believe that it is), or I would like to know why they don't consider it a mental disorder. More specifically, is there any other example of a very uncommon state of mind that is outside of personal control and not considered a disorder?

Not that I believe that being transgender should have a stigma associated with it, because it absolutely should not, and I believe it's perfectly natural for the people who feel that way. But how are you going to argue that insurance should pay for the treatment of something that isn't any form of disorder?

 

[Greedings]

They can market a pill for depression, not so much gender dysphoria... not yet anyways...

No, just free hormones, puberty blockers and inexpensive surgery.

Don't be silly, this is nothing to do with money.

 

[Derekloffin]

I have a family member who has obsessive compulsive disorder. The reason his medication is paid for by insurance is because how he feels is out of his control. So is the WHO saying something to the effect of "you can't help but feel differently than the more than 99 percent of the population who is cisgender, but what you feel isn't a mental disorder"? If that's the case, either being transgender is a choice (and I don't believe that it is), or I would like to know why they don't consider it a mental disorder. More specifically, is there any other example of a very uncommon state of mind that is outside of personal control and not considered a disorder?

Not that I believe that being transgender should have a stigma associated with it, because it absolutely should not, and I believe it's perfectly natural for the people who feel that way. But how are you going to argue that insurance should pay for the treatment of something that isn't any form of disorder?

They're trying to move it to another category. So instead of being a mental disorder it will be a Sexual Health Condition. So they are still categorizing it as something that needs treatment, but just putting a new label on it because apparently the Mental Disorder label is somehow troublesome.

Now, do I think this is helpful, no. Like all such attempts to relabel things, all it does is create confusion, and blur both labels, plus, soon the new label is seen as troublesome too. You see this sort of ping pong already with various ethnic labels. It doesn't change the underlying thing. As a wise poet once said, a rose by any other name...

 

[BANGS]

Don't be silly, this is nothing to do with money.

That's the most oxymoronic comment I've ever read... everything has everything to do with money...

 

[ickythingz]

The mental gymnastics that must be employed to accept this statement is amazing. I will treat a person with down syndrome as a human being, but that does not mean they don't have an issue. It's obvious something is wrong with a male who thinks he is a female. That doesn't mean I treat them differently. But to just write this issue off as normal instead of maybe looking into actual help for the individual is wrong. This is some dirty pool.

 

[Greedings]

That's the most oxymoronic comment I've ever read... everything has everything to do with money...

I don't think you know what oxymoron means.

There's no conspiracy about big pharma in this announcement. Transitioning involves a shit ton of drugs.

 

[BANGS]

I don't think you know what oxymoron means.

I meant that when someone says "don't be silly" they don't usually follow it up with something incredibly silly...

There's no conspiracy about big pharma in this announcement. Transitioning involves a shit ton of drugs.

That's exactly what I was saying. Depression has big pharma all over it, transitioning doesn't... yet... I'm really not sure what your point is at at this point I'm too afraid to ask...

 

[Papa]

We actually covered this in one of my college courses. There isn't any actual scientific evidence that it isn't a mental disorder but by saying that it isn't it becomes easier to have treatments paid for by insurance companies. This was back in love 2016 though so maybe something new has come out

That sounds ethically dubious.

 

[Leonard Washington]

The question I’m wondering is where were all the old transgender people hiding back in the days? This entire chunk of interchangeable chaps and chapesses seemed to have popped up out of the blue in the internet era and boy are they loud!

Could it have something to do with our modern world that is saturated in endocrine disrupters?

 

[DKehoe]

The question I’m wondering is where were all the old transgender people hiding back in the days? This entire chunk of interchangeable chaps and chapesses seemed to have popped up out of the blue in the internet era and boy are they loud!

Could it have something to do with our modern world that is saturated in endocrine disrupters?

Trans people have existed throughout history. Here's a bunch of examples for you

 

[Hotel Security]

I've always found it strange how, for every other type of delusional behavior, the idea is to make sure you convince the patient that their delusion isn't real. If a man claims that he's a chicken then his therapy would not be to agree with him that's he's a chicken. If someone claims they're afraid of something you don't agree with them that their fears are real.

Yet, with these males who think they're a female or vice-versa, the idea is to agree with the patient that they're a woman/man and basically to play along with the delusion. I never get why it's the exact same concept of a mental health issue and yet they decide to treat it differently because it's "rude" and not PC to call it a delusion or a mental issue. If a man claims he's a female than the therapy is to just agree with them so you don't upset them further? Feels like it's just enabling the issue and creating more problems on top of it.

It's okay for males and females to dress and act however they feel and date who they want. But flat-out claiming you don't have a weiner between your legs when you do (and then demanding everyone else claim the same) is delusion, plain and simple.

 

[kunonabi]

That sounds ethically dubious.

That was kind of my response but nobody else in the class seemed to bat an eyelash. Insurance companies are notorious tightwads though and transitioning should be covered by insurance whether it's a mental disorder or a physical one anyway.

 

[E.T. Waifu]

While I get what most people are saying here, I believe that this is only for the best. Trans people already suffer enough, and it has to stop.

 

[JordanN]

The mental gymnastics that must be employed to accept this statement is amazing. I will treat a person with down syndrome as a human being, but that does not mean they don't have an issue. It's obvious something is wrong with a male who thinks he is a female. That doesn't mean I treat them differently. But to just write this issue off as normal instead of maybe looking into actual help for the individual is wrong. This is some dirty pool.

This is where I stand, although I'll admit, I don't really care or find the idea of someone wanting to be the opposite gender as strange.
I'm all for leaving people to their own devices as long as they don't harm others or force people to go along with it.

Want to wear pink dresses and play barbie as a boy? That's none of my business. Do I have to partake in it or acknowledge what your gender is? Find someone else who does.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

That was kind of my response but nobody else in the class seemed to bat an eyelash. Insurance companies are notorious tightwads though and transitioning should be covered by insurance whether it's a mental disorder or a physical one anyway.

Why should insurance companies pay for transitioning?

Don't misunderstand me. I am sympathetic for their need of gender affirming procedures as well as understand it may cost more to NOT approve it in the long term. But that doesn't mean it should be on insurance companies. Especially since many transitioners are on Medicaid or Medicare plans which are just flat out not taken by many doctors including like 1/4th or so of the transgender procedure providers.

It seems practical to me if this is an important recognition in society that is emerging a new market or a non-profit should take on this task. Especially the red tape involved in insurance and costing disputes that doctors lose like 95% of the time. You have insurers that provide gender affirming coverage in one state and not another and refuse to do so until their competitors have to. And if you force this issue, no one wins cause insurance costs go up for everyone and the smaller insurers on the marketplace will end up dissolving or being purchased and added to a supergroup because they can't compete.

It seems to me if people with means who say they really care for those struggling then they would offer to help. But if they'd rather someone else pick up the bill... Well... I question the authenticity of their compassion.

 

[Zog]

However, playing video games IS a mental disorder according to the WHO.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Their statement sounds a bit clumsy to me. If they have scientific evidence that it's not a mental disorder, isn't that the only thing that needs to be said? Instead they talk about reducing stigma and improving care. Sure, that's the most important part, offering patients the treatment they need, but that should be the goal of everything this organisation does.

They also admit to listenting to advocacy groups, which shouldn't have anything to do with scientific definitions.

So yeah, I don't know. Seems kinda strange. I'm obviously no expert, so I can't say either way, but it comes off as a political decision rather than one based on scientific research.

You’re pulling your punches a bit. I’ll just come right out and say it: It’s based on political feelings and not scientific research. Where are the findings? Where are the peer-reviewed studies? Which universities were involved? Which mental hospitals? How many patients is this conclusion based on?

AND: What if someone makes the transition but still gets their gender wrong? Do they not have some sort of at least temporary mental deficiency?

 

[Shouta]

This isn't a surprise at all and it's a good thing it was changed. Gender Incongruence doesn't even fit the layman's understanding of mental illness.

 

[mantidor]

I've always found it strange how, for every other type of delusional behavior, the idea is to make sure you convince the patient that their delusion isn't real. If a man claims that he's a chicken then his therapy would not be to agree with him that's he's a chicken. If someone claims they're afraid of something you don't agree with them that their fears are real.

Yet, with these males who think they're a female or vice-versa, the idea is to agree with the patient that they're a woman/man and basically to play along with the delusion. I never get why it's the exact same concept of a mental health issue and yet they decide to treat it differently because it's "rude" and not PC to call it a delusion or a mental issue. If a man claims he's a female than the therapy is to just agree with them so you don't upset them further? Feels like it's just enabling the issue and creating more problems on top of it.

It's okay for males and females to dress and act however they feel and date who they want. But flat-out claiming you don't have a weiner between your legs when you do (and then demanding everyone else claim the same) is delusion, plain and simple.

This is not at all what being transgender is lol, plenty trans people have no sex reasignment surgery. You are very misinformed.

There are conditions about phantom organs, specially in amputees for instance, and there are extreme conditions when people reject one or more limbs called body integrity identity disorder, they are not related at all with gender dysphoria.

 

[Future]

Their verbiage sucks. It is like telling me that it is still a mental disorder but they want to label it not to help out those suffering from it.

Most disorders have medication used to treat, prevent or outright eliminate its existence. By classifying being transgender as not a disorder, you are saying that this is something you can live with that doesn’t need a cure. You still may need help getting treatment to make it easier to live (hormones, sex reassignment), but it is not a disorder or wrong to be a different gender than your biological sex.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

This is not at all what being transgender is lol, plenty trans people have no sex reasignment surgery. You are very misinformed.

There are conditions about phantom organs, specially in amputees for instance, and there are extreme conditions when people reject one or more limbs called body integrity identity disorder, they are not related at all with gender dysphoria.

I took what he meant was the sentiment that many people with gender dysphoria don't recognize the person in the mirror and feel that their body is not their body. And since some choose gender affirming surgeries there does seem to be a mental illness going on. They have a complete lack of emotional reconciliation between what they feel in their minds eye and what they experience with the 4 of the 5 senses, even whey they try very hard to do so. I don't think I'd choose the word delusional, it isn't as apt as it could be but it isn't entirely irrelevant. They do seem to have a fantasy of their perfect self, where it comes from I think I'll leave it up to the clinical psychiatrists and biologist to figure this out.

I could have interpreted him wrong.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

So removing your genitalia is ok yet playing Rock Band a VIDEOGAME (lol nerds) is a disorder? Yup sounds about right.

My trap friend will be happy though?

 

[Greedings]

That's exactly what I was saying. Depression has big pharma all over it, transitioning doesn't... yet... I'm really not sure what your point is at at this point I'm too afraid to ask...

My point is that transitioning also requires big pharma involvement. As I mentioned before - hormones, anti-puberty drugs and everything that comes along with surgery.
I was joking that they are free. They’re not!
This fact is a direct counter to your implication that the reason for this announcement is because big pharma isn’t involved. They are.

The difference is, a ton of people have depression. Only a very few people are trans.

 

[llien]

Something that is associated with the highest level of suicide is not a mental disorder? OK.

Yeah, looks politically motivated, not to mention, has "improved care" in the same sentence, why would one need it at all then.

 

[BANGS]

My point is that transitioning also requires big pharma involvement. As I mentioned before - hormones, anti-puberty drugs and everything that comes along with surgery.
I was joking that they are free. They’re not!
This fact is a direct counter to your implication that the reason for this announcement is because big pharma isn’t involved. They are.

The difference is, a ton of people have depression. Only a very few people are trans.

And that difference is the reason big pharma don't really care just yet. That fact is not at all a direct counter when put into context...

 

[haimon]

Same as being gay or bi isn't a mental disorder.

 

[manfestival]

Most disorders have medication used to treat, prevent or outright eliminate its existence. By classifying being transgender as not a disorder, you are saying that this is something you can live with that doesn’t need a cure. You still may need help getting treatment to make it easier to live (hormones, sex reassignment), but it is not a disorder or wrong to be a different gender than your biological sex.

Tell that to them not me. Just explaining things the way they wrote it.

 

[luigimario]

Not to play devils advocate, shouldn't it still be considered some sort of mental illness? We have a mismatch between biology and the persons self image? Something went wrong during development to give someone who is of one gender the body of another? Though i understand the reasonings to stop stigma, this group is marginalised/opressed as is...

 

[Dunki]

Personally I see it as a genetic defect (Brain defect) and not a mental disorer but a mentall illness

WHAT ARE MENTAL DISORDERS?
According to The American Heritage Stedman's Medical Dictionary, the following is the definition of "disorder" in medicine:

disorder dis·or·der (dĭs-ôr'dər) n. - A disturbance or derangement that affects the function of mind or body, such as an eating disorder or the abuse of a drug.

dis·or·dered , dis·or·der·ing , dis·or·ders v. - To disturb the normal physical or mental health of; derange.

Because the definition of "disorder" includes, specifically, a disturbance of the mind (such as a mental disorder) it better fits what we now call mental illnesses, particularly before we understood that mental disorders are truly disorders of the brain (and not simply the "mind").

WHAT ARE MENTAL ILLNESSES?

According to The American Heritage Stedman's Medical Dictionary, the following is the definition of "illness" in medicine:

disease dis·ease (dĭ-zēz') n. - A pathological condition of a body part, an organ, or a system resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.

Because "disease" specifies that the pathological condition be of a body part, people were less likely to use the term "mental illness" before it was understood that mental illness are diseases of the body.

The difference between "mental disorder" and "mental illness," then is one of considering the origin of the condition.

https://www.healthyplace.com/other-...ce-between-mental-illness-and-mental-disorder

So yes not calling it a mental ilness is stupid and wrong. What we need to change is the stigmatization of this word not its definition.

 

[Dunki]

While I get what most people are saying here, I believe that this is only for the best. Trans people already suffer enough, and it has to stop.

And you are really believe that this will change ANYTHING at all?

I highly doubt it. What you need to do is to change the stigmatization of the word Mental Illness not its definition to be more inclusive.

 

[LaughingStock]

Same as being gay or bi isn't a mental disorder.

You don't need treatment to function as a gay/bi person.

 

[Vangelis]

Even the WHO are falling for the SJWs revision of history.

 

[Dunki]

You don't need treatment to function as a gay/bi person.

This is a very important point. If you are trans and you do not try to do something about it your whole life will be Hell. Your physical and psychological conditions will get worse and worse until you brea down. You need treatment in one way or other and that is the big difference. To ignore this will not help these people at all.

In a healthcare system for example it needs to be treated as a illness or they will not finance anything at all.

 

[mckmas8808]

I didn't know people thought it was.

I don't try to understand anything to be honest. Mostly because I don't think I can necessarily fully understand something I don't deal with.

I am going to treat you as a human being same as I treat everyone else.

You probably can understand it if you listened to Trans people talk about their experiences and if you listen to a couple of scientist talk about gender identity. Give yourself a little more credit. You are smarter than you think you are.

 

[Dunki]

You probably can understand it if you listened to Trans people talk about their experiences and if you listen to a couple of scientist talk about gender identity. Give yourself a little more credit. You are smarter than you think you are.

Just like disabled people they do not want to be called disabled for the most part but the reality does not change with this. You need these definitions to talk about cures, to talk how ou can help these people and you need these to as I said before get financial support in terms of treatment in countries like mine.

Why is having a mental illness even seen as something negative? You know there is something wrong with you and you want to be cured so why is this even a problem? because of how people have used this word because of the stigmatization this word faces. And that is what you need to change....

 

[Musky_Cheese]

You probably can understand it if you listened to Trans people talk about their experiences and if you listen to a couple of scientist talk about gender identity. Give yourself a little more credit. You are smarter than you think you are.

I am just saying that while I can hear a story and absorb it. And even understand an experience is shitty, I can't experience it myself.

As in if you were to tell me you were a victim of police brutality, I can't understand your exact experience. But I can understand it's shitty. But I can't exactly share your experience.

 

[prag16]

We actually covered this in one of my college courses. There isn't any actual scientific evidence that it isn't a mental disorder but by saying that it isn't it becomes easier to have treatments paid for by insurance companies. This was back in love 2016 though so maybe something new has come out

This seems backwards to me. By saying it is NOT a mental disorder it's easier to get insurance coverage? Wouldn't it be the other way around? What am I missing?

This is not at all what being transgender is lol, plenty trans people have no sex reasignment surgery. You are very misinformed.

There are conditions about phantom organs, specially in amputees for instance, and there are extreme conditions when people reject one or more limbs called body integrity identity disorder, they are not related at all with gender dysphoria.

Okay, you latched onto one clumsy line at the end of the post. What about the rest of it? Seems like a valid question to me. If a guy thinks he's a tiger, or a skinny girl thinks she's fat to the point she's harming herself over it, those are delusions/disorders. But if a girl thinks she's a guy, that's different? Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less about people being trans or not, and will treat everyone with the same level of respect regardless of this. But I've never seen that question answered to any satisfactory extent. And you haven't answered it either.

Same as being gay or bi isn't a mental disorder.

This isn't the same is being gay or bi. Being gay or bi doesn't necessarily involve a disconnect between mind/body, and/or any kind of delusion (or anything that could be construed as a delusion), etc.

 

[mckmas8808]

Just like disabled people they do not want to be called disabled for the most part but the reality does not change with this. You need these definitions to talk about cures, to talk how ou can help these people and you need these to as I said before get financial support in terms of treatment in countries like mine.

Why is having a mental illness even seen as something negative? You know there is something wrong with you and you want to be cured so why is this even a problem? because of how people have used this word because of the stigmatization this word faces. And that is what you need to change....

Is there a cure for being Trans? Is it even something to be cured from?

Today, Noah would be considered a bigot. He’s and his family were the only survivors. Be like Noah. He didn’t hate, He warned. We have people born with ultra sensitivities and for years they were labeled as retards. Now we have guys that want to stick their winkies in some other dudes tooter and dress like their sisters and mothers but those people are heroes. Kiss my ass with that shit.

Whoa buddy what are you doing? Slow down with the hate.

Okay, you latched onto one clumsy line at the end of the post. What about the rest of it? Seems like a valid question to me. If a guy thinks he's a tiger, or a skinny girl thinks she's fat to the point she's harming herself over it, those are delusions/disorders. But if a girl thinks she's a guy, that's different? Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less about people being trans or not, and will treat everyone with the same level of respect regardless of this. But I've never seen that question answered to any satisfactory extent. And you haven't answered it either.
.

The thing is we are understanding more of what it means to be human. And within that what it means to be a boy or a girl. Is it "only" what genitals you have? Is it the amount of testosterone your body produces? Is it something even more internal that we can't see from the outside?

What we shouldn't do is compare humans to animals. That's not a fair thing to do at all.

 

[Dunki]

Is there a cure for being Trans? Is it even something to be cured from?



Whoa buddy what are you doing? Slow down with the hate.

There is treatment you have to undergo. If there is a cure? Depends I guess If you see finally getting the body you should have had through surgery etc and if you then feel as a man or women than this could be called a cure However there are also many illnesses that you do not cure but rather make possible to live with. Diabetes is one illness for example you have to deal with the rest of your life but it also needs treatment.

And again not calling it an illness would cause that healthcare systems like in Germany would not pay for it anymore.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

Is there a cure for being Trans? Is it even something to be cured from?



Whoa buddy what are you doing? Slow down with the hate.



The thing is we are understanding more of what it means to be human. And within that what it means to be a boy or a girl. Is it "only" what genitals you have? Is it the amount of testosterone your body produces? Is it something even more internal that we can't see from the outside?

What we shouldn't do is compare humans to animals. That's not a fair thing to do at all.

Did I not say that Noah didn’t hate? He warned. My problem isn’t with the deceived. It’s the deceivers.