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[Pinbot]

I don't see any swagger, just a bunch of Nazi shit.

Yeah, offensive post about the swagger, i agree.

 

[zero shift]

Which nation was worse to live in during the 30s, Germany or Soviet Union?

Spoiler

This is a stealth question of asking "How totalitarian was Hitler's Germany right prior to the war.

 

[Kabouter]

Which nation was worse to live in during the 30s, Germany or Soviet Union?

Not specific enough. What ethnicity, in which part of each country and so on.

 

[The_Squirrel_Menace]

Say what you will about the Nazis, but they had the coolest-looking uniforms of the war, bar none. All the other countries wore boring drab brown, but when the Germans went to war, they went to war in style. Who cares about shit like genocide when you have this much swagger?

Not found of German Nazi uniforms. Their camo patterns though. Now we are talking. Some of wich (both Werchmarcht and SS) are still in use in the Bundeswehr.

 

[SneakyStephan]

From what little I know the atomic bombing saved a ton of Allied lives by avoiding a costly invasion of the Japanese Home Islands. So it was the right thing to do in my opinion.

Great idea for a thread, subscribed.

Smh, history is written by the victors indeed.

 

[zero shift]

I think Canada still receives Tulips every year from the Netherlands due to this.

Not specific enough. What ethnicity, in which part of each country and so on.

Germany = German
Soviet Union = Russian

 

[Kabouter]

Germany = German
Soviet Union = Russian

Well, Russians suffered under forced collectivization and other such poor economic policies, as well as the general purges of intellectuals and the like but they certainly didn't suffer the worst within the USSR. Ukrainians and Poles were victims of enormous genocides. The NKVD committed countless unspeakable crimes during the 30s (and 40s for that matter).

In Germany, initially violence was most severe against opposing political movements, mainly the left. Over the course of the 30s, Jewish Germans got it worse and worse (amongst other minorities), and many thought it best to leave. Obviously aside from all this, free speech and press were effectively eliminated, education was brought under strict control and so forth.

 

[zero shift]

Well, Russians suffered under forced collectivization and other such poor economic policies, as well as the general purges of intellectuals and the like but they certainly didn't suffer the worst within the USSR. Ukrainians and Poles were victims of enormous genocides. The NKVD committed countless unspeakable crimes during the 30s (and 40s for that matter).

In Germany, initially violence was most severe against opposing political movements, mainly the left. Over the course of the 30s, Jewish Germans got it worse and worse (amongst other minorities), and many thought it best to leave. Obviously aside from all this, free speech and press were effectively eliminated, education was brought under strict control and so forth.

Which nation would you rather live in?

 

[Kabouter]

Which nation would you rather live in?

I don't see a value in choosing between the two. Both were hellish societies that no sane person would choose to live in.

 

[legend166]

So after 13 months of on and off again reading, I've only got around 50 pages to go with this:

Just an incredible book. I studied the Weimar Republic during high school so I had a good outline on how Hitler came to power, but the detail in this is fantastic.

It's a strange experience reading it. I'd say the vast majority of it was an 'enjoyable' read, inasmuch as reading the history of one of the most violent, despotic regimes in history can be 'enjoyable'. All the different political machinations and manoeuvrings are quite thrilling, and it's an exciting narrative. And then you get to the chapter on the New Order and it's just a punch in the gut. It all becomes real again and it's just horrifying reading what a supposedly 'civilised' society was able to unleash on people. It was like the same feeling I got after watching Schindler's List - I just wanted to go punch a Nazi in the face.

I'm sure plenty of you in here have read it already, but for those who have it and have any interest in the subject, do it now.

It was interesting, because a few days ago I started trying to play Hearts of Iron II again. I'm following a guide, because I have no idea what I'm doing, and the guide takes you through playing as Germany. And I was enjoying it a lot - I had a lot of historical context, I was picking up on who the different people were, the importance of the different regions and technologies. Then I read that chapter on the New Order, and now I have no desire to go back to the game. I know it sounds stupid, because it's just a video game that means nothing, but it seems to be really effecting me. I was like "Oh yeah, I could get I.G Farben to research some tech for me....oh yeah, they supplied chemicals used in the gassing of Jews "


Anyway, I'm looking for my next WWII book now. I'm thinking I might go back to some WWII fiction. I've read Night Soldiers by Alan Furst, which I thought was great, so I may give another one of his a go, unless anyone else has some recommendations?

 

[Reuenthal]

So after 13 months of on and off again reading, I've only got around 50 pages to go with this:

Just an incredible book. I studied the Weimar Republic during high school so I had a good outline on how Hitler came to power, but the detail in this is fantastic.

It's a strange experience reading it. I'd say the vast majority of it was an 'enjoyable' read, inasmuch as reading the history of one of the most violent, despotic regimes in history can be 'enjoyable'. All the different political machinations and manoeuvrings are quite thrilling, and it's an exciting narrative. And then you get to the chapter on the New Order and it's just a punch in the gut. It all becomes real again and it's just horrifying reading what a supposedly 'civilised' society was able to unleash on people. It was like the same feeling I got after watching Schindler's List - I just wanted to go punch a Nazi in the face.

I'm sure plenty of you in here have read it already, but for those who have it and have any interest in the subject, do it now.

It was interesting, because a few days ago I started trying to play Hearts of Iron II again. I'm following a guide, because I have no idea what I'm doing, and the guide takes you through playing as Germany. And I was enjoying it a lot - I had a lot of historical context, I was picking up on who the different people were, the importance of the different regions and technologies. Then I read that chapter on the New Order, and now I have no desire to go back to the game. I know it sounds stupid, because it's just a video game that means nothing, but it seems to be really effecting me. I was like "Oh yeah, I could get I.G Farben to research some tech for me....oh yeah, they supplied chemicals used in the gassing of Jews "


Anyway, I'm looking for my next WWII book now. I'm thinking I might go back to some WWII fiction. I've read Night Soldiers by Alan Furst, which I thought was great, so I may give another one of his a go, unless anyone else has some recommendations?

Barbarossa by Alan Clark is pretty damn great. And surprisingly a page turner. It is not fiction but a book on operation Barbarossa.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I listened to the audiobook of that recently, the guy reading it had a pretty sweet voice. There were several points when I noticed the author talking about something that was fairly outdated or reflecting a much older worldview. There are constant references to the characteristics of entire peoples, e.g. "the Germans who were so easy to fool" or "the Italians who were so unwarlike" and so on. There were also a lot of times where he'd talk about how Hitler was making these blunders that cost him the war, which are still talked about today but not really considered that important in the long run by historians, i.e. allowing the BEF to escape via Dunkirk.

It was a good read but I definitely wouldn't want it to be anybody's only source of historical information on the topic. It was obvious to me though just how important the book must have been since it is presenting what became the "standard view" on the war and the events leading up to it.

 

[feraltennisprodigy]

Europe Central by Vollmann is a pretty solid read when it comes to WW2 fiction.

 

[legend166]

I listened to the audiobook of that recently, the guy reading it had a pretty sweet voice. There were several points when I noticed the author talking about something that was fairly outdated or reflecting a much older worldview. There are constant references to the characteristics of entire peoples, e.g. "the Germans who were so easy to fool" or "the Italians who were so unwarlike" and so on. There were also a lot of times where he'd talk about how Hitler was making these blunders that cost him the war, which are still talked about today but not really considered that important in the long run by historians, i.e. allowing the BEF to escape via Dunkirk.

It was a good read but I definitely wouldn't want it to be anybody's only source of historical information on the topic. It was obvious to me though just how important the book must have been since it is presenting what became the "standard view" on the war and the events leading up to it.

It's a product of its time. The constant references to people in the Nazi party being "perverts and homosexuals" sort of gave that away.

 

[lastplayed]

Got to check out a recently restored Kittyhawk decked out in RNZAF colours today. It was originally a USAAF P-40 that crashed in Vanuatu in 1942, but it was acquired by our local air force museum in 1996 and restored to RNZAF specifications. Just thought you might find it interesting.

 

[Jimothy]

Anyway, I'm looking for my next WWII book now. I'm thinking I might go back to some WWII fiction. I've read Night Soldiers by Alan Furst, which I thought was great, so I may give another one of his a go, unless anyone else has some recommendations?

War Without Garlands by Robert Kershaw
Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East by David Stahel
The Retreat and Total War: From Stalingrad to Berlin by Michael Jones
The Forgotten Solider by Guy Sajer
A Writer at War by Vasily Grossman
Stalingrad: The Fateful Siege by Antony Beavor

These are all non-fiction books on the Eastern Front, which is my area of interest. I'm sure other people can recommend stuff about the Western Front and Pacific theaters.

 

[KillerMan91]

Actually during last week when I was bored I started to read about WWII once again (there is just limitless amount of interesting materiall..) and I actually started to wonder that could Axis powers have defeated Soviets if Germany and Japan would have actually co-operated more than just in name? Like when Germany launched operation Barbarossa Japan would have launched similar operation in the east? Surely two front war against too big nations would have been too much even for soviets when they already had so hard time against only Germans. Siberian forces that were freed from the east when Japan started to target the south were major part of Soviet defences when they managed to stop Germans before Moscow....

 

[xenist]

Stalingrad: The Fateful Siege by Antony Beavor

Stalingrad is in the running for the best historical book I've ever read in my life. Certainly the best one about World War 2. Beevor is amazing.

 

[xenist]

Actually during last week when I was bored I started to read about WWII once again (there is just limitless amount of interesting materiall..) and I actually started to wonder that could Axis powers have defeated Soviets if Germany and Japan would have actually co-operated more than just in name? Like when Germany launched operation Barbarossa Japan would have launched similar operation in the east? Surely two front war against too big nations would have been too much even for soviets when they already had so hard time against only Germans. Siberian forces that were freed from the east when Japan started to target the south were major part of Soviet defences when they managed to stop Germans before Moscow....

There were two main reasons I think that Japan left the USSR mostly at peace. First, Japan actually fought the Soviets early on. Zhukov absolutely crushed them at the battle of Khalkhin Gol when they tried. And I'm not exaggerating. Second, just like the Germans in Europe, Japan became horribly overextended. We should not forget that the war in China was in terms of cost what the Eastern Front was for the Germans. A quagmire that tied up more than half of their army. They didn't have nearly enough manpower and material to also attack the USSR. And even if they did they would face terrain and weather that would make the ones the Germans dealt with look like a breezy afternoon stroll in a vineyard in Tuscany.

 

[thesuperfunk]

Say what you will about the Nazis, but they had the coolest-looking uniforms of the war, bar none.

Am I right in thinking that Hugo Boss had some involvement with the SS uniform?

 

[Jimothy]

Actually during last week when I was bored I started to read about WWII once again (there is just limitless amount of interesting materiall..) and I actually started to wonder that could Axis powers have defeated Soviets if Germany and Japan would have actually co-operated more than just in name? Like when Germany launched operation Barbarossa Japan would have launched similar operation in the east? Surely two front war against too big nations would have been too much even for soviets when they already had so hard time against only Germans. Siberian forces that were freed from the east when Japan started to target the south were major part of Soviet defences when they managed to stop Germans before Moscow....

Japan got beaten BADLY by the Russians in 1939, so them invading again was pretty much impossible. Also, what would been in it for them if they helped Germany, vast tracks of barren land in Siberia? No way they would have risked so much for what is virtually a wasteland. Also, the Japanese army just wasn't built for open-land warfare. Have you seen the Japanese tanks of the time? They were basically armored buggies.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Thanks, that is about what I expected.
[r.e.]materials on Battle of Odessa

There is also The Museum of the Heroic Defense of Odessa (website almost all in Russian):
150 Dacha Kovalevskogo Street, Odessa, tel.: +38 0482 40-18-33, +38 0482 44-45-27

The Memorial is a kind of an open-air museum, which occupies an area of 16 hectares (40 acres). The Memorial offers detailed exhibitions that show samples of military machinery and weapons of the main armed forces branches, for the Great Patriotic War period (1941–1945).

The entrance to the Memorial is decorated with sculptures of the Katyusha concrete stele, and along a 500-meter (1,600-foot) long alley there stand metallic structures depicting the emblems of the cities (including one fortress, Brest Fortress) that hold the honorary title of the Hero City.

On the day of the 45th anniversary of the liberation of Odessa from Nazi German troops, 10th April 1989, the Alley of Memory was planted on the north-western outskirts of the Memorial by parents of soldiers who died during the 1979–1989 Soviet War in Afghanistan. Together with the sculptural composition, the complex, which symbolises the link between and continuity of generations, is known as The Sad Memory of the Age.

The four rooms of the museum offer thematic exhibitions of a high artistic level; the exhibitions present the "epic" of the defence of Odessa under the following epigraph: "The years of the Second World War are increasingly becoming remote history. However, time cannot condemn them to oblivion and erase them from people's memory."
source

If you want to find more information, contact the museum. Somone there is probably one of the leading Historians on this or they know one, it could equally be a thing of pride and heavy on the nationalistic overtones but I'd give it a shot. They also might have a giftshop or an affiliation with a university. Its a longshot but could provide enough material to write a book of your own one day, not that you would necessarily want to.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

World War II is of particular interest to me as a history major, especially so the North African and Mediterranean Theater as my late Grandfather fought there. I wrote a short research paper (only about 17 pages single spaced) on the Second Front Decision of 1942 (how and why Roosevelt choose Operation Torch over Sledgehammer-Roundup). I didn't feel it presented a unique enough interpretation to publish it, but I am working on a revised paper on the same subject. It is quite amazing how important Churchill's opinions were to Roosevelt.

 

[KillerMan91]

There were two main reasons I think that Japan left the USSR mostly at peace. First, Japan actually fought the Soviets early on. Zhukov absolutely crushed them at the battle of Khalkhin Gol when they tried. And I'm not exaggerating. Second, just like the Germans in Europe, Japan became horribly overextended. We should not forget that the war in China was in terms of cost what the Eastern Front was for the Germans. A quagmire that tied up more than half of their army. They didn't have nearly enough manpower and material to also attack the USSR. And even if they did they would face terrain and weather that would make the ones the Germans dealt with look like a breezy afternoon stroll in a vineyard in Tuscany.

But surely when Soviets were pretty much getting their asses kicked by Germans and Eastern front already tied up pretty much all their men Japanese forces would have had a lot less resistance in Siberia compared to pre Barbarossa years.

Japan got beaten BADLY by the Russians in 1939, so them invading again was pretty much impossible. Also, what would been in it for them if they helped Germany, vast tracks of barren land in Siberia? No way they would have risked so much for what is virtually a wasteland. Also, the Japanese army just wasn't built for open-land warfare. Have you seen the Japanese tanks of the time? They were basically armored buggies.

Well land is still land and surely it would have been pretty great thing for their future ambitions to see one huge military power to collapse. One thing less to worry about.

 

[legend166]

War Without Garlands by Robert Kershaw
Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East by David Stahel
The Retreat and Total War: From Stalingrad to Berlin by Michael Jones
The Forgotten Solider by Guy Sajer
A Writer at War by Vasily Grossman
Stalingrad: The Fateful Siege by Antony Beavor

These are all non-fiction books on the Eastern Front, which is my area of interest. I'm sure other people can recommend stuff about the Western Front and Pacific theaters.

I've read Stalingrad by Beevor, and it was great. I think I'm ready to move on from the Eastern Front now.

 

[xenist]

But surely when Soviets were pretty much getting their asses kicked by Germans and Eastern front already tied up pretty much all their men Japanese forces would have had a lot less resistance in Siberia compared to pre Barbarossa years.

Again, you're understimating how overstretched Japan's forces were during that part of the war. As I said the war with China tied up 55 to 60 percent of all Japanese troops up until the end. Plus after their "blitzkrieg" in the Pacific they had to cover a ridiculously huge area. Japan couldn't even think about expanding any more. They'd have to give up China, Indochina or the Pacific to make up any force capable of going into Siberia with any chance of success.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

The Japanese have nothing to gain in the short term by an attack. They enter the war in '41 to seize oil resources. The Soviet oil fields are concentrated around the Caucasus which are basically on the other side of the country to the Japanese. It's also oil the Germans and Italians desperately want. The Japanese are balls-deep fighting in China and their war effort is going to be even more strained by opening up a new front in the region against an enemy that beat them back into the bushes only a few short years earlier with minimal effort.

Taking a wait-and-see approach is obviously in the best interest of the Japanese. An attack on Pearl Harbor followed by a rapid campaign to seize oil fields in the Pacific is the most straight-forward way to get what they need. Japan attacking the USSR is in the best interest of Germany, naturally, but the Fuhrer has minimal sway over their pacific allies.

 

[antonz]

The Japanese have nothing to gain in the short term by an attack. They enter the war in '41 to seize oil resources. The Soviet oil fields are concentrated around the Caucasus which are basically on the other side of the country to the Japanese. It's also oil the Germans and Italians desperately want. The Japanese are balls-deep fighting in China and their war effort is going to be even more strained by opening up a new front in the region against an enemy that beat them back into the bushes only a few short years earlier with minimal effort.

Taking a wait-and-see approach is obviously in the best interest of the Japanese. An attack on Pearl Harbor followed by a rapid campaign to seize oil fields in the Pacific is the most straight-forward way to get what they need. Japan attacking the USSR is in the best interest of Germany, naturally, but the Fuhrer has minimal sway over their pacific allies.

Yep Japan had no choice but to start the war when they did otherwise they risked their entire war grinding to a halt due to fuel issues.

Germany you can more or less see was hoping for more time before war broke out. So many of their projects were planned for finishing in 41 or 42 be it tanks, ships etc. On the flipside it would have allowed Russia to continue its modernization as well so how much all the extra stuff would have helped Germany is up for debate though Germany with a few Aircraft Carriers might have been far more potent fleet wise.

 

[feraltennisprodigy]

If you're interested in the battle of Stalingrad, you might want to check out this small publisher: Leaping Horseman Books. They've released a number of insanely detailed books on the battle and the units that fought in it as well as a few memoirs. Island of Fire is my favorite of their titles.

 

[KillerMan91]

Again, you're understimating how overstretched Japan's forces were during that part of the war. As I said the war with China tied up 55 to 60 percent of all Japanese troops up until the end. Plus after their "blitzkrieg" in the Pacific they had to cover a ridiculously huge area. Japan couldn't even think about expanding any more. They'd have to give up China, Indochina or the Pacific to make up any force capable of going into Siberia with any chance of success.

Well yeah you are probably right. It defnitely served more Japanese interests to go south and then go to Siberia if Nazis would have defeated Soviets.

Yep Japan had no choice but to start the war when they did otherwise they risked their entire war grinding to a halt due to fuel issues.

Germany you can more or less see was hoping for more time before war broke out. So many of their projects were planned for finishing in 41 or 42 be it tanks, ships etc. On the flipside it would have allowed Russia to continue its modernization as well so how much all the extra stuff would have helped Germany is up for debate though Germany with a few Aircraft Carriers might have been far more potent fleet wise.

Wasn't most of Asian oil in Indonesia? So if they had skipped pearl harbor attack and maybe Philipphines as that was US colony at the time they could have continued their war efforts elsewhere. As fas as I have read US was quite hesitant to go to war but of course after such a blatant attack they had to.

 

[phaze]

Actually during last week when I was bored I started to read about WWII once again (there is just limitless amount of interesting materiall..) and I actually started to wonder that could Axis powers have defeated Soviets if Germany and Japan would have actually co-operated more than just in name? Like when Germany launched operation Barbarossa Japan would have launched similar operation in the east? Surely two front war against too big nations would have been too much even for soviets when they already had so hard time against only Germans.

Stalin never really weakened the Siberian front. Soviet strength opposite Japanese actually rose after 22 June 1941. I'll try to dig up a table I saw somewhere. IJA had their strength tied down in China. Given the results of earlier clashes the result would be by no means a sure thing for the Japanese.

Siberian forces that were freed from the east when Japan started to target the south were major part of Soviet defenses when they managed to stop Germans before Moscow....

As I understand this this is a myth. Transfers from the east took place for a long time before the Moscow counter offensive and Siberian divisions were only a small a part of Soviet forces used in that operation.

http://operationbarbarossa.net/Myth-Busters/Mythbusters3.html#an_2

Wasn't most of Asian oil in Indonesia? So if they had skipped pearl harbor attack and maybe Philipphines as that was US colony at the time they could have continued their war efforts elsewhere. As fas as I have read US was quite hesitant to go to war but of course after such a blatant attack they had to.

That course of action always seemed like a smarter take on things than the real life scenario. I venture to guess that Nippon thought that war with US was an inevitability and that Philippines were too much a threat to their communication lines if left unconquered.

 

[KillerMan91]

Stalin never really weakened the Siberian front. Soviet strength opposite Japanese actually rose after 22 June 1941. I'll try to dig up a table I saw somewhere. IJA had their strength tied down in China. Given the results of earlier clashes the result would be by no means a sure thing for the Japanese.



As I understand this this is a myth. Transfers from the east took place for a long time before the Moscow counter offensive and Siberian divisions were only a small a part of Soviet forces used in that operation.

http://operationbarbarossa.net/Myth-Busters/Mythbusters3.html#an_2

Oh. Interesting. If I remember right it was The World at War documentary where they stated that Siberian forces were big part of Moscow defences.

That course of action always seemed like a smarter take on things than the real life scenario. I venture to guess that Nippon thought that war with US was an inevitability and that Philippines were too much a threat to their communication lines if left unconquered.

Probably just mix stupidity and insanity. Reading history It makes you wonder sometimes that just how some of these men that make these decisions get to so high in a command in the first place when even your average commoner would make wiser decisions. So many insane tactical decisions and wars across the history that make zero sense... Well maybe you have to be a bit insane to start a war in the first place.

 

[Jimothy]

Oh. Interesting. If I remember right it was The World at War documentary where they stated that Siberian forces were big part of Moscow defences.

You should take most books/tv with sources that came out before the fall of the Soviet Union with a grain of salt. It's crazy the amount of myths that have been debunked by access to new archival information. For example, the Soviets withdrawing further and further back to set the trap in Stalingrad during Operation Blue never really happened. The Soviets launched numerous offensives to slow the Germans down in the steppes before Stalingrad, and there was very intense fighting all the way into the city. It's a shame that the Soviets weren't more open about their failures during the war because it's allowed the West to create its own narrative about how the war unfolded.

 

[xenist]

Wasn't most of Asian oil in Indonesia? So if they had skipped pearl harbor attack and maybe Philipphines as that was US colony at the time they could have continued their war efforts elsewhere. As fas as I have read US was quite hesitant to go to war but of course after such a blatant attack they had to.

Go for Indonesia with the Americans still in the Philippines, in the middle of their supply routes? Not a chance.

 

[Minion101]

Currently studying the final days of the war. I'm rather surprised US didn't put the Japanese emperor on trial.

 

[KorrZ]

Currently studying the final days of the war. I'm rather surprised US didn't put the Japanese emperor on trial.

I remember this topic coming up in a documentary series I watched and it was stated that the Japanese people revered their Emperor so much at the time that they would have never surrendered if he was going to be put on trial.

 

[Minion101]

Yeah it seems they took the path of least resistance. The quickest way to end this very long war. However, while the nuremberg trials were a whole bag of ethics questions. If you look at how they defined a war criminal. The Emperor clearly is one.

 

[Jimothy]

I'm reading the memoirs of a Soviet artillerymen on the Eastern Front. Some of the shit he went through is absolutely insane. In one section he talks about him and his commanding officer walking back to their battery when they're spotted by a German artillery observer who has their position sited. Shells start falling and the guy dives to the ground only have the officer stand up straight right in the middle where the shells are falling. He then calls him pussy for taking cover and convinces him to stand up as well. Both of them start walking through the field with shells landing all around them. They end up walking over 200m across open ground and neither are wounded. He realizes the German has it in for them because usually they'd call off the fire mission for only a few guys but they're shelled continuously as they walk across the field. He starts to thinking about the look on the frustrated German observer's face and starts laughing. This book is so great.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Which nation was worse to live in during the 30s, Germany or Soviet Union?

Spoiler

This is a stealth question of asking "How totalitarian was Hitler's Germany right prior to the war.

The Soviet Union, and it's not close. Holocaust hadn't started yet, while Stalin's purges and famines and general fucked upedness were at their zenith.

Not specific enough. What ethnicity, in which part of each country and so on.

I'd still rather be a Jew in Germany than be an average person in the Soviet Union in the 30s. Shit was not cool.

 

[phaze]

Oh. Interesting. If I remember right it was The World at War documentary where they stated that Siberian forces were big part of Moscow defences.

The table I mentioned, showing Soviet deployments in the Far East. Though I must say the numbers seem a bit on the high side even for me.

For those interested, Polish National Digital Archives made available 500 + photos from September Campaign.. The navigation is straightforward but there are no descriptions in English.

 

[Kabouter]

That table ends too soon, want pre-Manchurian Strategic Offensive Operation numbers.

 

[phaze]

That table ends too soon, want pre-Manchurian Strategic Offensive Operation numbers.

It only covers the duration of Soviet-German war, unfortunately. Wiki numbers for Manchurian Offensive are taken from Glantz so they should be relatively reliable.

 

[Minion101]

I'm reading the memoirs of a Soviet artillerymen on the Eastern Front. Some of the shit he went through is absolutely insane. In one section he talks about him and his commanding officer walking back to their battery when they're spotted by a German artillery observer who has their position sited. Shells start falling and the guy dives to the ground only have the officer stand up straight right in the middle where the shells are falling. He then calls him pussy for taking cover and convinces him to stand up as well. Both of them start walking through the field with shells landing all around them. They end up walking over 200m across open ground and neither are wounded. He realizes the German has it in for them because usually they'd call off the fire mission for only a few guys but they're shelled continuously as they walk across the field. He starts to thinking about the look on the frustrated German observer's face and starts laughing. This book is so great.

Thanks for this post. This got me looking into WWII memoirs. Bought "The Forgotten Soldier" after doing some research. The one you're reading sounds pretty good

 

[Mgoblue201]

I remember this topic coming up in a documentary series I watched and it was stated that the Japanese people revered their Emperor so much at the time that they would have never surrendered if he was going to be put on trial.

The Potsdam Proclamation, which laid out the basic terms of surrender for Japan, never mentioned the emperor explicitly, and even during the surrender ceremony the fate of Hirohito was left somewhat ambiguous. It's probably true that holding the emperor responsible was inconceivable during the war, but after surrender his abdication (if not necessarily a trial for war crimes) was embraced by a sizable minority of Japanese. The argument in favor of retaining the emperor being made at the time typically referred to the importance of the imperial throne to the restoration of Japan as a stable, prosperous nation. All other forms of authority were essentially in tatters. Maybe that's a fatuous argument, but a lot of Americans in the position to affect the course of the occupation insisted upon the importance of the symbolism of the imperial throne.

 

[Loxley]

Just started listening to the Ghosts of the Ostfront episodes of Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast and man, this guy is so damn good at grabbing your attention in the first two minutes and not letting go. I loved his Wrath of the Khans series and have heard nothing but great things about this one.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Just saw a documentary about the female SOE agents sent into France.

ugh just made me feel awful.
it tried to build this Vera woman up but im sitting there the entire time feeling its her and the superior's fault they got into that entire mess.

 

[The Incarnation]

Nevermind didn't realise thread was old.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

They could have just dropped a nuke on an empty island or in the sea. And then just warned Japan, stop or the next one is on you. War over. What's irresponsible is not exhausting all alternatives before deciding to annihilate 230,000 people.

they dropped one on them and Japan still didn't surrender.
3 days later they dropped the other, Japan surrendered 6 days after that.

 

[xenist]

they dropped one on them and Japan still didn't surrender.
3 days later they dropped the other, Japan surrendered 6 days after that.

Yeah. It may sound callous but think about it. This was year six of the war. Up 'till then millions upon millions upon millions had died. 60 up to 85 million people. It was slaughter on an unthinkable scale. The entire industrial, economic, military and scientific might of the world was devoted to killing each other. Using a couple of hundred thousand deaths as a shock treatment didn't seem such a bad idea in context.

 

[rubius01]

they dropped one on them and Japan still didn't surrender.
3 days later they dropped the other, Japan surrendered 6 days after that.

Yeah the US had to drop two, bluff that there were more and the Soviets had to enter the war. Then the Japanese surrendered. Plus, what if the demonstration bomb was a dud?