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[FMX]

Could they have put that focus elsewhere and gave us better performing games?

 

[Operations66]

I don’t know. Maybe.

 

[Mr Moose]

They went with APUs that fit their budget. AMD RDNA2 is kinda crap at RT, but it's the devs that add it to the games.

 

[rofif]

For sure. Rt it’s a scam. Raster techniques catched up years ago for cheaper. Enough to compete at least.
Fsr2 was also a mistake.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Weekend Gaf is amongst us my brethren!

 

[adamsapple]

Sony and MS aren't forcing developers to use RT at gunpoint. The hardware is there, utilizing it is up to individual developers.

 

[Skifi28]

Imagine picking an apu that can do RT and then... Forcefully turning it off for devs.

 

[March Climber]

Could they have put that focus elsewhere and gave us better performing games?

Much like 4k, it was inevitable. You just have to go through it's growing pains like the rest of us.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I have seen no evidence that ray tracing was a "focus" for the console. Games have ray tracing, but that doesn't mean they were enough of a "focus" that warranted a thread creation.

 

[rofif]

Much like 4k, it was inevitable. You just have to go through it's growing pains like the rest of us.

4k is completely different and awesome. Makes any game look good. I hear 1080p streams that still play on 24” monitors.
Dude I have 48” tv on my desk. I would take 8k if it was feasible.
And worth dlss, there are no downsides to 4k

 

[Fake]

Imagine picking an apu that can do RT and then... Forcefully turning it off for devs.

Imagine using an APU for RT.

 

[Barakov]

Hard to say. Honestly, for most games don't they have an option to turn off RT? It's usually performance/quality/RT(if available) mode. The apu both of them chose had RT a part of the package so it doesn't make sense for them to disable it. I can't think of any game that forces RT on you.

If you want RT with all the bells and whistles then a beefy PC is your best choice. Both parties should've of chosen a apu that goes above and beyond for 4k60. RT probably won't be viable for consoles till the next cycle.

 

[March Climber]

And worth dlss, there are no downsides to 4k

I like 4k too, but 'no downsides to 4k' has a big asterisk next to it. It truly depends on who you ask.

Also, it took us a long while to get to a comfortable point with dlss and 4k output. This is what I mean by growing pains. This is that generation of growing pains and as I've said here and elsewhere, raytracing and 4k are both big reasons for these growing pains, especially for console like the OP implies.

 

[rofif]

I like 4k too, but 'no downsides to 4k' has a big asterisk next to it. It truly depends on who you ask.

Also, it took us a long while to get to a comfortable point with dlss and 4k output. This is what I mean by growing pains. This is that generation of growing pains and as I've said here and elsewhere, raytracing and 4k are both big reasons for these growing pains, especially for console like the OP implies.

I am downscaling from 4k since at least 2014. Gedosato days. 2019 for first 4k monitor. I’ve been early adopter.

look at rebirth. Game looks amazing where it matters. Same with Elden ring. These games would’ve taken twice the time and money to develop with all modern techniques or would’ve to be reduced in size.

 

[March Climber]

I am downscaling from 4k since at least 2014. Gedosato days. 2019 for first 4k monitor. I’ve been early adopter.

look at rebirth. Game looks amazing where it matters. Same with Elden ring. These games would’ve taken twice the time and money to develop with all modern techniques or would’ve to be reduced in size.

But you're mainly arguing against it now, because we haven't seen it at a peak yet and it's barely being implemented today. We don't know what the payoff will be yet for us and for devs, until we reach PS6 or PS7.

I try to never judge early versions of anything as if they're final products. Same goes for AI.

 

[gothmog]

Are you implying this generation is worse or something? I can play more games at 60+fps than pretty much any modern generation.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Yes..........

If you are not doing raytraced lighting like Robocop, Avatar, or Metro Exodus then you shouldn't even bother.

 

[onQ123]

Y'all do know that Ray-Tracing use the same compute that other graphical tasks use right? There was nothing taken away to add Ray-Tracing lol

 

[kiphalfton]

Used it in Call of Duty Cold War when I got my RTX 3080, and couldn't tell any difference. Granted that was an early game, but all the same I doubt an early PC game is any less impressive than a recent console game with ray tracing.

 

[ReBurn]

Would things be different if things were different? Probably.

 

[Dorfdad]

YES 1000% percent. Ray tracing has no benefit for console gamers. HDR is fine for this gen. Having ray tracing at the expense of frame rate is stupid. Release it on the PS6 when you can actually implement it properly and not half baked without penalty.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

SSD?

 

[Lupin25]

Nah.

Once the PS5 Pro comes out people will say RT wasn’t as worth it on lesser hardware, but in reality, most game engines haven’t even been designed or optimized to take full advantage of it yet.

Obviously there’s a limit with Og hardware, but RT/global illumination will be a game-changer eventually, especially when it comes to saving devs precious time.

 

[Topher]

I wouldn't go that far. But I'll say ray tracing should never be forced into games (a al Jedi Survivor) until it has a negligible hit to performance across the board. Ray Tracing is a good step forward for graphics overall though.

 

[Hoddi]

I don't think it would have changed anything. It's not like the these consoles would have become twice faster or have twice the memory.

Going from 8GB to 16GB was always a too small increase to see big generational leaps. Removing RT support wouldn't have changed that.

 

[poppabk]

For sure. Rt it’s a scam. Raster techniques catches up years ago for cheaper. Enough to compete at least.
Fsr2 was also a mistake.

We are reaching the end of what raster can achieve. RT is practically unlimited.

 

[Beechos]

Nah the games look and perform the same exact way they do now.

 

[TransTrender]

There's no poll option.

My answer would be yes

 

[Syphon Filter]

No, consoles will always be under powered and it will show more the latter part of the life of it.

 

[Mr Moose]

Y'all do know that Ray-Tracing use the same compute that other graphical tasks use right? There was nothing taken away to add Ray-Tracing lol

fps:

 

[onQ123]

fps:

Huh? We have 120fps games this generation

 

[Gamerguy84]

Controls floors wouldn't have been as shiny. As f or Spider-Man I don't ever look at my reflection while crawling on the side of buildings. GT has some pretty cool reflections but they didn't affect my gaming experience.

My answer is no. I'm surprised they shoe horned it in anyway. Other methods would have been good enough at the level PS5 games have it.

 

[Mr Moose]

Huh? We have 120fps games this generation

With RT?
I thought we were talking about RT tanking performance.
Edit: Shit never mind now I understand what you were saying, you're talking about the OP assuming the RT features costs the consoles anything.

 

[onQ123]

I don't think it would have changed anything. It's not like the these consoles would have become twice faster or have twice the memory.

Going from 8GB to 16GB was always a too small increase to see big generational leaps. Removing RT support wouldn't have changed that.

The biggest limitation this generation is actually self imposed by the devs & publishers because we are in the digital download era & no one wants to make 500GB + games because people wouldn't want to download it & take up all their storage space

 

[onQ123]

With RT?
I thought we were talking about RT tanking performance.

Read the title of the thread this is about the hardware.

 

[violence]

Sometimes it’s important to take the baby steps

 

[Mr Moose]

Read the title of the thread this is about the hardware.

Yeah, completely misunderstood your comment lol.

 

[FunkMiller]

No idea. But I've found RT to be the biggest load of unnoticeable, pointless horseshit in games, so maybe?

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Unreal Engine 5 is the demon

 

[Sakura]

Most console games that have raytracing are barely using it anyway. I don't really think there would be any noticeable difference, and I don't see how devs choosing to implement some form of RT in their game is Sony/MS shoehorning it in.

 

[Umbral]

YES 1000% percent. Ray tracing has no benefit for console gamers. HDR is fine for this gen. Having ray tracing at the expense of frame rate is stupid. Release it on the PS6 when you can actually implement it properly and not half baked without penalty.

Metro: Exodus running RTGI at 60fps says hi.

 

[zeroluck]

RDNA 2 ray tracing silicon takes up 1-2% of die space at most... PS5 Pro is going to be RDNA 3.5, ray tracing is still an afterthought compared to Nvidia. You will have to wait for at least RDNA 5 if want to complain about any potential hardware misallocation.

 

[bender]

Would things be different if things were different? Probably.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

With whatever chips PS and Xbox got, was RT built into the chips anyway by AMD? Or they had reasonable choice to exclude that feature?

 

[bitbydeath]

I like 4k too, but 'no downsides to 4k' has a big asterisk next to it. It truly depends on who you ask.

Also, it took us a long while to get to a comfortable point with dlss and 4k output. This is what I mean by growing pains. This is that generation of growing pains and as I've said here and elsewhere, raytracing and 4k are both big reasons for these growing pains, especially for console like the OP implies.

I’d rather we drop RT, keep 4K and make 30FPS the standard.

 

[Crayon]

It was already in rdna2. Probably no small job to try and take that out and redesign the pipe for die space.

 

[trikster40]

Nope. It’s all good, consoles plenty powerful. I can’t imagine playing GTA online without ray tracing, os Spidey, Makws a huge difference in open world games.

 

[rofif]

We are reaching the end of what raster can achieve. RT is practically unlimited.

Rt is just one of the methods to render graphics someone invented. Pretty ancient and brute force too. There must be other ways

 

[squarealex]

No bc people gonna say "muh, looks like PS4 games"

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I think this gen would've been better if people stopped whining about every single thing.