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[AntiFacebook]

Nah.It would have recieved warmer reception if people didn't have such a horrible taste.

Wind waker is by far the best zelda, so why would majora's mask make any difference

 

[Rambler]

I wonder if Nintendo regrets ever showing that ugly spaceworld demo.

 

[ckaneo]

Wind Waker sold more and is better received than Majoras Mask...

No?

 

[Effect]

It was largely the space world trailer/footage I believe along with the negative narrative surrounding the GameCube. I don't think Majora's Mask had anything to do with it. If I recall not many people played Majora's Mask compared to OoT due to when it released. I think attention around that time was largely on the PS2 that released a mouth earlier if I'm remembering correctly. Many people didn't even know that game existed I think until it re-released on the GameCube as part of a collection.

Had that Space World trailer not been released, the Wind Waker reveal trailer been different, and had Nintendo been more aggressive about controlling their own narrative for the GameCube I think reception for the Wind Waker would ave been a LOT better. As said it felt like a bait and switch on top of the "kiddy label" that GameCube was being hit with, while Nintendo was doing nothing to push back on it until it was to late. By the time they started pushing different colors, more varied games instead of only the cute looking stuff, the damage was done I think.

Like said Twilight Princess exist as a direct response to the negative reaction and reception Wind Waker got across the board outside of critics. How they even went about revealing and advertising Twilight Princess was different too.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

MM is my least favorite 3D Zelda and WW is my favorite before BotW came out, so...

I wonder if Nintendo regrets ever showing that ugly spaceworld demo.

This would be a likely culprit for WW naysayers disliking the art style (especially at the time). I can imagine it felt like they were promised one thing and delivered something completely different. Not that it was ever presented as anything more than a tech demo, but still.

 

[renzolama]

The coldest of receptions

 

[dragonfart28]

The initial reaction to the game was entirely because of the expectation set by the Spaceworld Demo. It's precisely the reason why the Twilight Princess reveal a few years later was so jubilant.

 

[ckaneo]

The coldest of receptions

If Wind Waker wasn't a Zelda game it would be a 76

 

[Jacknapes]

People were expecting the Spaceworld tech demo visuals for the next Zelda game, instead we had the cel-shaded style used on Wind Waker. People were disappointed, and as it's been said, it's one of the reasons why Twilight Princess was made.

If anything, Nintendo maybe shouldn't have shown the Spaceworld tech demo. Maybe Wind Waker would have received a better reception when it was revealed.

 

[renzolama]

If Wind Waker wasn't a Zelda game it would be a 76

That's half of my point, actually. No main console Zelda game ever gets anything other than a fantastic initial reception. Asking "would <x> have gotten a warmer reception if..." is nonsensical for a main Zelda entry.

 

[AntiFacebook]

If Wind Waker wasn't a Zelda game it would be a 76

Wind waker is the only game that really justfies the sacred aura surrounding the zelda franchise

 

[Easy_D]

Majora largely came and went though, it existing didn't effect Wind Waker's reception one bit. The expectations for "realistic" next gen Zelda came from the 2001 Spaceworld demo with Link and Ganondorf fighting

 

[Sabercrusader]

I think it got bad reception because of the tech demo rather than Majora's Mask. If we removed Majora's Mask but still had everything else go down with Wind Waker, I still think it would've had a poor reception.

Even if the actual game was perfectly fine.

 

[Admodieus]

You have to realize what it was like to be following the news at the time. People were desperate for any information or footage of what the Gamecube Zelda would look like after that brief tech demo video at Spaceworld 2000. Then a year later at Spaceworld 2001 they showed this trailer that had acompletely different art style, with a focus on conveying "cartoony" emotions - a moblin jumping around on one foot after being poked in the back by Link's sword, Link himself going wide eyed at fireflies around him, and then the wink at the end, which almost felt like Nintendo admitting they had pulled the wool over your eyes.

I had initial outrage at what I perceived was a bait and switch but came to love Wind Waker's art style over the course of development and really enjoyed the game.

 

[JohnTinker]

ITT we find out who wasn't old enough to experience/remember the initial Wind Waker reveal reaction.

The console wars was at its height at that time, and Wind Waker only solidified Nintendo's perceived kiddy image at the time. I remember multiple interviews with Miyamoto (and others) where journalists asked point blank if they would reconsider the art style, and Nintendo was baffled at the question.

Over time and through different events more and more of Wind Waker was revealed to the world, and as journos got a chance to go hands on, they discovered how fun it was. Then upon release, most of the backlash towards it had subsided (but nowhere near all of it).

Also, on Majora, keep in mind that the promise of the 64DD and URA-Zelda was still coming. Then with the death of the 64DD & the rise of the Expansion Pak taking center stage, Majora was accepted outside of OoT's shadow. Then hype for the GameCube Zelda began, and the hype went up to 11 at the SpaceWorld reveal in 2000.

 

[Greatest Ever]

No, Wind Waker is a bad game regardless of what came before it.

 

[Rambler]

ITT we find out who wasn't old enough to experience/remember the initial Wind Waker reaction.

The console wars was at its height at that time, and Wind Waker only solidified Nintendo's perceived kiddy image at the time. I remember multiple interviews with Miyamoto (and others) where journalists asked point blank if they would reconsider the art style, and Nintendo was baffled at the question.

I was more mad about Perfect Dark never happening than Wind Waker not looking like the tech demo.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Nothing to do with MM. The SpaceWorld tech demo, the chibi art style reveal, and the rushed late game design after release all chilled the initial reception.

Honestly I think it was the chibi style that really put people off from the beginning moreso than it being cell-shaded and cartoonish. If they had tried to emulate the old instruction manual illustrations people would have lost their shit.

 

[ClivePwned]

You have to realize what it was like to be following the news at the time. People were desperate for any information or footage of what the Gamecube Zelda would look like after that brief tech demo video at Spaceworld 2000. Then a year later at Spaceworld 2001 they showed this trailer that had acompletely different art style, with a focus on conveying "cartoony" emotions - a moblin jumping around on one foot after being poked in the back by Link's sword, Link himself going wide eyed at fireflies around him, and then the wink at the end, which almost felt like Nintendo admitting they had pulled the wool over your eyes.

I had initial outrage at what I perceived was a bait and switch but came to love Wind Waker's art style over the course of development and really enjoyed the game.

That trailer with the more adult/older looking Link was the kicker at a time when kiddie games started to struggle (and more or less evaporated the following generation)
That said, I loved Wind waker when I first played it and its probably my favourite 3D zelda (still have a long way to go in BOTW before it can judged as a new favourite)

 

[rochellepaws]

The reception was very mixed at the time from fans despite critical response, it was definitely a very controversial game due to its art style. In a time of everything going darker, edgier and more adult it was strange to see Nintendo take the opposite direction and we were unfortunately living in a time where bright and colorful = childish with gaming enthusiasts still feeling very insecure with the perceived maturity of their hobby as it was.
Twilight Princess was the response to the fallout and was much more in line with what the fanbase at the time were seemingly looking for.
What's more interesting to me is if the releases were inverted and if Twilight Princess was the 2003 game propping up the gamecube with Wind Waker releasing with the Wii in 2006 would we then have seen a vastly different response? I felt that by 2006 the childish insecurity was fading and there was a lot of jadedness with overly dark and gritty games from the later years of the PS2.

 

[Sanke__]

The problem was that infamous trailer not majoras mask

 

[ckaneo]

That's half of my point, actually. No main console Zelda game ever gets anything other than a fantastic initial reception. Asking "would <x> have gotten a warmer reception if..." is nonsensical for a main Zelda entry.

Wind waker is the only game that really justfies the sacred aura surrounding the zelda franchise

I was being sarcastic....

 

[fredrancour]

The reception was very mixed at the time from fans despite critical response, it was definitely a very controversial game due to its art style. In a time of everything going darker, edgier and more adult it was strange to see Nintendo take the opposite direction and we were unfortunately living in a time where bright and colorful = childish with gaming enthusiasts still feeling very insecure with the perceived maturity of their hobby as it was.
Twilight Princess was the response to the fallout and was much more in line with what the fanbase at the time were seemingly looking for.
What's more interesting to me is if the releases were inverted and if Twilight Princess was the 2003 game propping up the gamecube with Wind Waker releasing with the Wii in 2006 would we then have seen a vastly different response? I felt that by 2006 the childish insecurity was fading and there was a lot of jadedness with overly dark and gritty games from the later years of the PS2.

Oh my god swapping the release of WW and TP would have added to the hurt feelings over the wii a thousandfold. it would have gotten caught up in the anti-casual narrative. "They aren't competing on hardware power, their flagship game is a casual party game with waggle, AND the best they're offering core gamers at launch is a cross-platform cartoon zelda?"

side note: reflecting upon the wii launch = desire to play excite truck rising.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Majora is an awful game, I've never understood the love affair people have with it. It pales in comparison to every other Zelda game.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Wind wakers art and sound style, somewhat ironically, is the one thing it did 100% right.

Everything else... Well, they should have finished making the game.

 

[TheDinoman]

I still think it's funny that Wind Waker's E3 trailer had Riders of Doom playing in it.

It made enough sense to use it for the promos for Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess because both those games had a darker Tolkien-esque aesthetic to them, but it's such a rather odd contrast to Wind Waker's happy cartoony artstyle lol.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Wind Waker was also the least challenging Zelda game by a long shot when it came out.

 

[DrArchon]

Nothing to do with MM. The SpaceWorld tech demo, the chibi art style reveal, and the rushed late game design after release all chilled the initial reception.

Honestly I think it was the chibi style that really put people off from the beginning moreso than it being cell-shaded and cartoonish. If they had tried to emulate the old instruction manual illustrations people would have lost their shit.

I dunno. I still think people would've been cold to any cell shaded artstyle, regardless of the characters being chibi. This was the time when the first LotR movie was shaping the look of the fantasy genre in everyone's minds. Fantasy wasn't "for kids" anymore. It could be dark and bloody and "cool".

I think some people would've loved for WW to emulate the style of the old Japanese boxarts and the instruction manuals, but for younger fans who's first game was OoT they still would've hated it and called it a dumb cartoon for babies.

 

[Hermii]

I wonder if Nintendo regrets ever showing that ugly spaceworld demo.

They repeated the same story almost when they showed the Wii U Zelda demo, so I doubt it.

 

[LordRaptor]

And until recently was still the king of cel shaded graphics, at least the benchmark. (Atlhough now Ni No Kuni or BOTW could take that crown). An art style always ages better than the pursuit of realism.

GG:Xrd Revelator is the current king of "holy shit is that actually 3D?"

If that Spaceworld video showed ... the sunken Hyrule Castle

If the promo showed a major spoiler....?

 

[trixx]

How can anyone hate the artstyle? It was beautiful. Regardless the comparison between dungeons would've been made to Ocarina of Time and it doesnt go in the favour of Wind Waker. Better characters and world perhaps. Also still have to deal with sailing which is still controversial part of the game.

 

[Berordn]

If the promo showed a major spoiler....?

A glimpse of it isn't really a spoiler, more of a teaser?

It's established in the intro that the world of Hyrule as we knew it was flooded long ago. That the castle still exists below the sea isn't really a stretch.

 

[Mega]

Wind Waker would have been more warmly received if they actually finished the game so it would have a proper number of dungeons and no triforce hunt padding bullshit.

This. Graphics aside, it was such an unsatisfying, sparse and inferior game coming from OOT and MM a few years earlier.

The biggest, oft repeated compliment WW gets is that it "still looks amazing!," "it's charming!", etc... which says nothing about all of its major gameplay shortcomings.

I wonder if Nintendo regrets ever showing that ugly spaceworld demo.

That wasn't ugly back in 2000. I recall everyone wanting that game in part because of how good it back then.

 

[SporeCrawler]

If Wind Waker wasn't a Zelda game it would be a 76

skyward sword would be a 90 if it wasnt a zelda game

 

[Sizzel]

A lot of folks were not very happy when it came out. Now it is viewed as a classic and one of the best. I remember those days. I am not sure when it changed from hate, but we were shown some super realistic Zelda demo and that was the expectation...so cartoon link disappointed a ton of folks. There was outrage galore. It reviewed well, but people were teed off at Zelda for Babies. ..hence more realistic Zelda follow up.

TLR no it wouldn't have.. if we had never seen that tech demo from 2000 it would have maybe..but this was all before Nintendo was widely viewed as a novelty console or Niche console and toon Zelda was not well received by us looking for a Super Nintendo return to dominance. IMO

 

[SporeCrawler]

Wind wakers art and sound style, somewhat ironically, is the one thing it did 100% right.

Everything else... Well, they should have finished making the game.

yeah its one of the first real open world games (alognside GTA 3 and GTA VC) with all the open world issues. (just that they used a fish instead of ubitowers lol)

real big world but little content. if they had more content the game would have been much more enjoyable. also the salvage system could have been so much better but they had to waste it on their worst part of the game the triforce hunt. imagine a kickass extra item (armor, shield, something) that you have to craft by finding bits and pieces in the sea where you have to find the maps in the mini dungeons and the maps...

also quick travel is limited to some weird spots in the map..

A lot of folks were not very happy when it came out. Now it is viewed as a classic and one of the best. I remember those days. I am not sure when it changed from hate, but we were shown some super realistic Zelda demo and that was the expectation...so cartoon link disappointed a ton of folks. There was outrage galore. It reviewed well, but people were teed off at Zelda for Babies. ..hence more realistic Zelda follow up.

TLR no it wouldn't have.. if we had never seen that tech demo from 2000 it would have maybe..but this was all before Nintendo was widely viewed as a novelty console or Niche console and toon Zelda was not well received by us looking for a Super Nintendo return to dominance. IMO

at the end of the day we got that tech demo game 6 years later so all is fine

 

[_Rob_]

GG:Xrd Revelator is the current king of "holy shit is that actually 3D?"

Holy shit, is that actually 3D? I stand corrected!

 

[Deleted member 752119]

If anything it would have caught more flack if it was immediately following up OoT. MM wasn't nearly as beloved, especially back in the day, as OoT. A lot of OoT fans were disappointed with the tone shift, time mechanic etc. in MM and thus probably weren't as rabid of Zelda fans as they were immediately after OoT.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Nothing has really changed. I still see the occasional comment that Zelda games are too colorful, not mature enough, whatever.

 

[daveo42]

The art style was the main "boo-hiss" that far too many people had about the game when they expected a more realistic looking Link on the Gamecube. Majora's Mask didn't have anything to do with it, it was the art style plain and simple.

 

[Dame]

This is interesting, especially for gaf. For years i've maintained that i wasn't having fun when i played wind waker. It felt like a solidly constructed game that was empty, woth contrived and predictable dungeons centered around the weapon you just got.

Turns out there's a small consensus who agrees & i wasn't insane for feeling this.

 

[gogojira]

Yep. I still remember the negative reaction back in the IGN board days. haha

That was where I posted, too, haha. I signed up right before that Space World. As a huge Metroid fan, seeing Samus run through that first corridor in 3D was so damn amazing for me.

 

[EvB]

MM had nothing to do with anything. It was mostly people wanting the same art style as OOT and expecting the game to look much darker

Yeah nothing to do with MM, everything to do with the Zelda GameCube tech demo

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

The reception was very mixed at the time from fans despite critical response, it was definitely a very controversial game due to its art style. In a time of everything going darker, edgier and more adult it was strange to see Nintendo take the opposite direction and we were unfortunately living in a time where bright and colorful = childish with gaming enthusiasts still feeling very insecure with the perceived maturity of their hobby as it was.
Twilight Princess was the response to the fallout and was much more in line with what the fanbase at the time were seemingly looking for.
What's more interesting to me is if the releases were inverted and if Twilight Princess was the 2003 game propping up the gamecube with Wind Waker releasing with the Wii in 2006 would we then have seen a vastly different response? I felt that by 2006 the childish insecurity was fading and there was a lot of jadedness with overly dark and gritty games from the later years of the PS2.

We've discussed that too. TP then WW would have been better in hindsight but w/e in 2017, they're both stellar games that stand the test of time past the context of their releases.

My point with MM isn't that it was the main reason for the initial WW hate but that the well for an OoT-style Zelda was already tainted, which added to the overhype of the Spaceworld trailer and the subsequent backlash against Toon Link/WW.

 

[joedick]

The coldest of receptions

Critics weren't as down on it after playing it (and the user reviews have over a decade of hindsight). A lot of people are talking about the first trailer shown to journos (it wasn't allowed to be filmed but got leaked out). Official hands on previews (that came months later) started turning the tide, but the first reactions were nasty.

As many have mentioned, Nintendo was still viewed as a kiddy company, not having been able to shake that image since the SNES days. That trailer frustrated a lot of Nintendo fans, who were tired of having the kid console reputation, and of course gave the trolls plenty of material.

EDIT: Here are some reactions from the IGN boards

 

[Laieon]

EDIT: Here are some reactions from the IGN boards

"If its Ocarina style that you love then you should now set your eyes apon Dinosaur Planet (cause that games gonna Kick Zelda up the arse)"

Cute.

 

[Makonero]

"If its Ocarina style that you love then you should now set your eyes apon Dinosaur Planet (cause that games gonna Kick Zelda up the arse)"

Cute.

hahahahaha rare died

now i'm sad

 

[a916]

It was the spaceworld tech demo that threw people off

This.

Also the fans may have reacted that way... but I don't think the reviewers did at all... the thing is pretty well reviewed by critics.

 

[MrBadger]

It was the Gamecube Zelda demo footage which gave Wind Waker its negative reception. People saw that and expected the Gamecube's Zelda to resemble it.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

GG:Xrd Revelator is the current king of "holy shit is that actually 3D?"



If the promo showed a major spoiler....?

I wasn't saying they should literally show it. I was pointing out that the favorite moments that people have for WW in 2017 are the most dour and serene parts of it, not slapstick Looney Tunes moblins.

They are sneering at people "hating kiddie stuff" in 2001 when the most memorable parts of the game are the complete opposite of the tone of that 2001 teaser trailer. That trailer still sucks and is not representative of the final product.

BotW is the most dour Zelda game yet and everyone is drooling over it.