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WWE Raw drops to lowest TV rating in 18 years
- Thread starter RBH
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Bruce Springsteen
Member
I'm a fan, and he's ovah
the last few Takeover events have been a bore to me, I just don't care about anyone on that NXT roster
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I'd put them equal right now, because of NXT's shitty dude roster right now. Their whole roster has been rebuilding all year.
Smackdown doesn't have anything close to NXT's tag and women's divisions.
smackdown got nxt's head writer when the brand split happened, so the drop in quality for nxt and increase in quality for smackdown makes sense
in other words, everything sucks
CWC was triple h's idea though and that shit was amazing so... i trust him more than vince with creative
in other words, everything sucks
CWC was triple h's idea though and that shit was amazing so... i trust him more than vince with creative
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Can we please talk about Charlotte and friends on Raw
Can they please have more females to the damn roster?
It's Charlotte, Bailey, Da' Boss, with appearance from Nia Jax and stooge Dana Brooke when the scoot calls for them
She more Roman than Roman right now
Make Charlotte look strong 👀 💪
Can they please have more females to the damn roster?
It's Charlotte, Bailey, Da' Boss, with appearance from Nia Jax and stooge Dana Brooke when the scoot calls for them
She more Roman than Roman right now
Make Charlotte look strong 👀 💪
Charlotte is a great heel and plays to her role extremely well. She's got a long way down before she hits Roman levels.
Women's Division booking is trash, Charlotte is great though.
It keeps getting lower 🤔
Mike Works
Member
I agree that Roman has an audience that doesn't align with the typical internet crowd (much like Cena), but that second part is utter horseshit dude. That's like saying Donald Trump is a great president because we talk about him a lot.
He's popular among a certain group that has buying power (I have to assume since I think his merch sales are in the Top 3 or 5), but in terms of his character dynamic and push, it's just been botched super hard.
If fucking Titus O'Neil was constantly pushed in the main event, got suspended for a wellness violation, then came back and won titles and got to face Undertaker at Wrestlemania, etc, would that be great booking because people would complain about it and fans in the arena would boo him despite being pushed as a face? No. Of course not.
I don't blame WWE for keeping Roman in the main event if he is selling merchandise and tickets (though it isn't set in stone how well he's doing that), and I agree with you that there's too much internet cynicism when it comes to wrestling (and many things in general, but definitely wrestling), but his character and how they're trying to sell it to the fans fucking sucks. Has for years.
It's too bad, because he's a hard worker and I think he sells great for a big guy. Wellness violation aside, he seems like a strong company man, and he definitely has "the look". He's not the best wrestler in the company, but he can put on some good matches with the right opponents.
But it's clear as fucking day that Vince loves the guy and is doing everything in his mind to make us feel the same way. You don't have to be an insider to figure that one out.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
The game has changed. Raw and Roman are passe.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Let's see this data!
Bruce Springsteen
Member
What does that pic mean?
Uno Venova
Banned
I'd like to see data for either claim honestly.
The Silver
Member
Roman really did get sabotaged, him having "the look" is ironically what fucked him over. Vince took him when he wasn't ready and tried to force him into the Cena mold, personally scripting some his worse promos and was doing this at the same time when Bryan was organically getting over in spite of Vince. Vince didn't care what the audience wanted and Reigns was caught in the crosshairs culiminating at the Rumble, that stink has followed Reigns to this day.
RecRoulette
Member
GO ACE is what it means.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Love and Energy, Feel the Best, GAF.
Real talk, if you want an act that sells merch, can get it done in the ring, have charisma, and appeal to all fans, and can cross into the mainstream and make appearanceson The Today and the like, it's definitely The New Day.
Now we all know they won't get pushed to the top spot, and we all know exactly why they won't. But shit. Could they really go wrong with three guys who managed to get their own cereal simply by mentioning it enough that fans demanded it? And are now about to do the same with ice cream?
New Day Rocks, brehs.
They've also got Alicia Fox (who does nothing and is now a valet), Summer Rae (injured), Paige (LOL who even knows wtf), and Emma (who has been ready to wrestle for months now but they've decided she'd be better used in promo packages).
On paper, the division should be fine. In practice, jeeeeeez.
And agreed on Charlotte. I think she's great, but not so great that the entire division should be built around her.
Now we all know they won't get pushed to the top spot, and we all know exactly why they won't. But shit. Could they really go wrong with three guys who managed to get their own cereal simply by mentioning it enough that fans demanded it? And are now about to do the same with ice cream?
New Day Rocks, brehs.
They've also got Alicia Fox (who does nothing and is now a valet), Summer Rae (injured), Paige (LOL who even knows wtf), and Emma (who has been ready to wrestle for months now but they've decided she'd be better used in promo packages).
On paper, the division should be fine. In practice, jeeeeeez.
And agreed on Charlotte. I think she's great, but not so great that the entire division should be built around her.
Exactly. Great post.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Roman would probably be fine today if they just let him grow organically and built him up properly but nope, classic Vince trying to make someone into something they're either not ready for or just simply not in a vain attempt to turn his "chosen one" into someone else and over the course of roughly 30 years and all the times he's attempted it, it's never worked.
WrestleMania being some huge risk is at best Vince embellishing history if not flat out revisionism. Vince sells his company as something he bought with every penny he had at great risk from his father when he more or less inherited it and then bought out the controlling stakes of everyone else and took as this little mom and pop operation and put it all on the line for this huge gamble that was WrestleMania which is just bullshit. The reality is Vince had control of the richest, most profitable territory in the United States and the risk of WrestleMania failing was basically nil after Vince bought so much talent from other territories and got mainstream attention with Mr.T and Cyndi Lauper's involvement and other promoters knew it and Jim Crockett already effective did the same thing with Starcade minus the spectacle and celebrity involvement, with all of it there really was no real risk. Even if WM did somehow fail Vince would just retreat back to having his control over the North East and make the money he put into it back relatively quick.
Ward left in March of last year IIRC so it was months before the split but NXT still had a while to run off what he and also Dusty (which IMO was a much bigger loss) had built up. I think if Triple H ever really gets in charge he'll try to move it back to being treated more as a "sport" but with Stephanie's influence I don't know how far that'll go. The only other thing I'm concerned about with Triple H (and Steph for that matter) is that it seems like he's more of a "my way is the only way" sort with a lot less flexibility than Vince who can at least be reasoned with and accept input.
...
WWE's creative has been garbage more than it's been good especially over the last ten or so years and they've been largely stuck in the same format for 20 years, it's beyond stale but there's no indication of it changing. It also doesn't help whenever someone would get hot they'd try and interject someone in there to leech their heat if not flat out bury them or they'll latch onto something or someone getting popular and ride it hard and over expose it in the process. They just come off incredibly desperate just as their PR endeavors, the celebrity involvement junk (especially in recent years) and pretty much anything that might get them mainstream attention in desperate bids to seem relevant to pop culture, FFS they're still referencing that Randy Orton "RKO Outta Nowhere" meme they killed two years ago.
Nothing is changing without some massive shake up, they're pretty much content to coast along with what they've been doing because they're making so much money and record revenue that they have no real threats when it comes to another wrestling... "Sports Entertainment™" company and regardless of how Vince has tried to spin it over the years as his competition as being everything else on TV it's clear they don't actually view it that way. It works in Vince's favor that hardly any of his shareholders (who have zero input or control given Vince still holds pretty much all the voting power) or people who run the networks that give WWE their TV deals which is WWE's primary revenue stream, have any understanding of the business he runs so they have to trust he knows what he's doing. Of course there's ratings which they understand but when you're still giving the network its highest ratings as ratings everywhere erode it's easy to buy whatever excuses Vince decides to throw out as to why their ratings aren't as good as they use to be.
The most important TV deal (USA's) expires in 2019 and it's going to be really interesting what happens there, imagine WWE might actually start trying again in the months leading up to negotiation in an attempt to put them in a stronger bargaining position along with dangling the prospect of a third hour being added to Smackdown as dreadful as that sounds.
WrestleMania being some huge risk is at best Vince embellishing history if not flat out revisionism. Vince sells his company as something he bought with every penny he had at great risk from his father when he more or less inherited it and then bought out the controlling stakes of everyone else and took as this little mom and pop operation and put it all on the line for this huge gamble that was WrestleMania which is just bullshit. The reality is Vince had control of the richest, most profitable territory in the United States and the risk of WrestleMania failing was basically nil after Vince bought so much talent from other territories and got mainstream attention with Mr.T and Cyndi Lauper's involvement and other promoters knew it and Jim Crockett already effective did the same thing with Starcade minus the spectacle and celebrity involvement, with all of it there really was no real risk. Even if WM did somehow fail Vince would just retreat back to having his control over the North East and make the money he put into it back relatively quick.
Ward left in March of last year IIRC so it was months before the split but NXT still had a while to run off what he and also Dusty (which IMO was a much bigger loss) had built up. I think if Triple H ever really gets in charge he'll try to move it back to being treated more as a "sport" but with Stephanie's influence I don't know how far that'll go. The only other thing I'm concerned about with Triple H (and Steph for that matter) is that it seems like he's more of a "my way is the only way" sort with a lot less flexibility than Vince who can at least be reasoned with and accept input.
...
WWE's creative has been garbage more than it's been good especially over the last ten or so years and they've been largely stuck in the same format for 20 years, it's beyond stale but there's no indication of it changing. It also doesn't help whenever someone would get hot they'd try and interject someone in there to leech their heat if not flat out bury them or they'll latch onto something or someone getting popular and ride it hard and over expose it in the process. They just come off incredibly desperate just as their PR endeavors, the celebrity involvement junk (especially in recent years) and pretty much anything that might get them mainstream attention in desperate bids to seem relevant to pop culture, FFS they're still referencing that Randy Orton "RKO Outta Nowhere" meme they killed two years ago.
Nothing is changing without some massive shake up, they're pretty much content to coast along with what they've been doing because they're making so much money and record revenue that they have no real threats when it comes to another wrestling... "Sports Entertainment™" company and regardless of how Vince has tried to spin it over the years as his competition as being everything else on TV it's clear they don't actually view it that way. It works in Vince's favor that hardly any of his shareholders (who have zero input or control given Vince still holds pretty much all the voting power) or people who run the networks that give WWE their TV deals which is WWE's primary revenue stream, have any understanding of the business he runs so they have to trust he knows what he's doing. Of course there's ratings which they understand but when you're still giving the network its highest ratings as ratings everywhere erode it's easy to buy whatever excuses Vince decides to throw out as to why their ratings aren't as good as they use to be.
The most important TV deal (USA's) expires in 2019 and it's going to be really interesting what happens there, imagine WWE might actually start trying again in the months leading up to negotiation in an attempt to put them in a stronger bargaining position along with dangling the prospect of a third hour being added to Smackdown as dreadful as that sounds.
Avon Barksdale
Member
I was at the RAW right after Roman got suspended for a wellness violation and let me tell you, when his name got mentioned in the opening segment, he got the most boos of the night.
Mind you, this was in Tampa, which isn't exactly known for being a "heel town" either.
Mind you, this was in Tampa, which isn't exactly known for being a "heel town" either.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Wtf am I watching. Chyna has just gotten a boob job in the space of a week and Shawn Michaels is just talking her to her tits in the middle of the ring lol.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Fuck. 205 Live material right there.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Another thing about Romes having the look is that WWE have tried to craft him as the next big thing so long and so hard that none of their hacks really worked.
They had him wear that shield like vest to hide his flabby physique post Shield split.
They have him wear brown contacts because his natural blue eyes aren't sexy enough.
They tried to tie him to The Rock in Philly. You know how that went after Rock raised his arm.
Then he started making dick comments and gestures about the fans on interviews and social media.
He's just not "the man" or the big dog he thinks.
Host Samurai
Member
I don't think Roman will ever get over.....ever no matter what. His push that he got instead Bryan will forever ruin him. Bryan had been gone for over a year and the fans still hate Roman for taking his spot. If he were to face Cena, I can guarantee you that Cena would be not be the one that gets booed out of the building. Fans have not warmed up to him one bit, which is saying something after all this time.
It's always about personality and natural charisma. Reigns feels like a guy who's forced to act like he's a leader but nobody buys it for 2 seconds. That's the only reason it doesn't work.
The Rock, Cena, CM Punk, Stone Cold, could all make you believe they acted legit and were their own boss.
Reigns is just pretending, and that's not good enough for wrestling.
The Rock, Cena, CM Punk, Stone Cold, could all make you believe they acted legit and were their own boss.
Reigns is just pretending, and that's not good enough for wrestling.
Look at the babyface usos and the new heel usos.
Complete fucking 180 and heel usos are a million times more entertaining because they aren't scripted like lame ass babyfaces. they use their natural charisma, and it comes out on talking smack especially.
just let roman be himself, he'll get over. unfortunately they have a very strict script that "the guy" in the company needs to follow.
Complete fucking 180 and heel usos are a million times more entertaining because they aren't scripted like lame ass babyfaces. they use their natural charisma, and it comes out on talking smack especially.
just let roman be himself, he'll get over. unfortunately they have a very strict script that "the guy" in the company needs to follow.
The Silver
Member
Cena was the best and worst thing to happen to Vince. Cena is about as perfect a WWE employee as you can get and Vince is completely hooked on the drug.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
There are limits. There was a time Reigns could be saved. Their insistance on pushing him as the guy for 3 years to a negative reaction is hard to come back from. It might be possible, I think that ship has sailed though.
Host Samurai
Member
If the Bryan thing never happened, than yeah I think he'd be in a much better position now...barring all the cheesy loony toon lines. I can see him get mixed reactions with some being favored to cheers. But yeah, they blew the Roman load a year or 2 too early.
I hate when Roman is called new Cena. It's an insult to Cena. The Hustle Loyalty Respect Superman character may be played out but at least it's a character. I don't know what Roman Reigns is or is supposed to even be trying to be. My guess is generic anti-hero but it's not like he plays the Wolverine to anybody's Cyclops. Super Cena himself steps over the line more often than Reigns.
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