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[dragonelite]

But you want to play those titles with impressive graphics. The same way that people want to play Nintendo or Sony titles that are improved.

I think the thing that will make the most difference is $399 right away. Games looking better on one platform will be a word of mouth thing that carries into years 2 and 3 of the system.

Impressive graphics i can have on my gaming rig.
Next gen isn't that impressive when your already used to 1080p@60fps.
I don't really care that much too the ip shown for the ps4. Maybe if they show 2~3 games 2 years later from now i will buy it. The x1 so far has Forza5 and halo 5 revealed so yeah i want one this or next year. Those are the exclusive games i grew up with and want to play.
Totally get the people that want an Wii u if Nintendo releases a zelda next year i will probably get them too.

I went from nintendo -> pc -> 360 -> pc i had an ps3 but it was mostly gathering dust after playing and finishing uncharted 2 and killzone 2 the uncharted genre of cinematic gaming hence why im not that excited about uncharted 3 or the last of us. I rather have an world like skyrim with an shitty story but i can still do and go where i please. Maybe the next killzone is something but im skeptical and one game doesn't warrant a $399 purchase i want at least 3~4 exclusive that resonate with me for an console purchase

 

[Harp]

Funny... Why would anyone talk about actual specs when you can talk about Magic?

Does Microsoft not understand that it is 2013. and not 1983. Do they think that people dont buy the new Iphone because it more then the last one? People may not understand 5 billion transistors. But they do under stand that Faster is better then Slower.

 

[hgarrett54]

Why is everyone giving Microsoft shit for saying this? Everybody acknowledges that gameplay > graphics, so what's the problem? Don't like it, don't buy it.

It's the same approach that Nintendo has, where instead of going for raw power, they add some kind of functionality that sets it apart from the other consoles.

 

[banjo5150]

I am late to the show here. Is all of this because of what Cerny said in his speech yesterday?

Either way I feel MS Xbone team seems really douchey, and Sony's PS4 team seem very genuine and cool guys. I like many others believe Cerny is the man.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

this is just MS PR bull crap


if they had a clear advantage, they would post that shit and toot their own horn.

if not, there's no point in going into details. you keep it vague like they did... "8 core CPU, AMD Radeon HD GPU, 8GB RAM"

if they weren't all about going into depth about hardware analysis, they wouldn't bother going into detail with Kinect 2.0, but they did go in depth with Kinect 2.0 because there's no way it can look bad vs anything.

it's all PR crap.


with that said, the difference between the two is a moot point. both will have comparable graphics. xbone might just have to drop the resolution later down the road to keep up, but they both can support the same level of graphics.

 

[Interfectum]

Why is everyone giving Microsoft shit for saying this?

Because it's disingenuous and marketing speak. Everyone here knows that if XB1 was more powerful than PS4 MS would be singing it from the roof tops but instead they are hiding behind terms like "specs are meaningless", "power of the cloud," and "magic."

The problem with that is the audience they are speaking to should be able to see it for what it is... damage control.

Just show the specs and be done with it.

 

[Beerman462]

Cannot wait for games to start coming out, I wanna see what this "power of the cloud" thing is all about.

Power of the cloud just means your Xbox isn't going to be the host for multi-player matches anymore. So basically go play any game with dedicated servers and that's the "Power of the Cloud". Other things they are doing is AI in games, so basically what MMOs have been doing forever.

 

[Darth Tigris]

You know, the more immature and imbalanced bashing I read of anything MS reps say, the off the fence toward the X1 I get pushed.

You guys have no idea how bad you're coming off ...

 

[polyh3dron]

This is what you say when your specs are weaker.

.

 

[waypoetic]

"DON'T LISTEN TO THEM OTHER GUYS! please "

 

[JABEE]

Why is everyone giving Microsoft shit for saying this? Everybody acknowledges that gameplay > graphics, so what's the problem? Don't like it, don't buy it.

It's the same approach that Nintendo has, where instead of going for raw power, they add some kind of functionality that sets it apart from the other consoles.

Why have one when you can have both? Microsoft has shown nothing at their press conference that makes Kinect a compelling device for gaming.

If you look at the two boxes, they will have the same gameplay capabilities. Based on the available information, the same cannot be said about the graphics capabilities.

The Gameplay vs. Graphics argument is a flawed argument. To enter it, you would have to assume that a system having lesser specs means that it is inherently going to produce better playing games, there is no evidence for that. In fact, I would say that the PS3 performing worse than 360 on sports titles for the first 3 years of its existence hurt gameplay.

Expecting a better spec'd machine to have better graphics performance is something that can be expected out of a machine with better graphical capabilities.

That is the only differentiation to me on a pure hardware level from someone that is not interested in what gaming applications Kinect has to offer. The only thing that has been shown on Kinect is how it works with the system UI and television overlay.

 

[KrAzEd]

I know Microsofts PR is basically shot, but I feel like the hardware differences between the 2 consoles will not make much of a difference. I totally agree that MOST consumers will be purchasing these consoles based on the games available and their relationship with the previous generation as opposed to the superior hardware. PS3 came out a year after 360 and was touted as being 50% more powerful, aside from some gorgeous PS3 exclusives, I didn't see any difference in 3rd party games and imo Halo 4 was one of the best looking console games of this generation.

 

[jaxpunk]

You know, the more immature and imbalanced bashing I read of anything MS reps say, the off the fence toward the X1 I get pushed.

You guys have no idea how bad you're coming off ...

Please tell us about the virtues on the xbone and how it will save you from the internet trolls... This should be a good one!

 

[Interfectum]

You know, the more immature and imbalanced bashing I read of anything MS reps say, the off the fence toward the X1 I get pushed.

You guys have no idea how bad you're coming off ...

You're going to buy a XB1 because "GAF" calls out MS PR when it's obviously bullshit?

And "GAF" is coming off as bad? lol

 

[RedNumberFive]

I'm glad that the "transistors in the cloud" horseshit was covered in page one. What a bunch of fucking clowns. I'm embarassed for Microsoft at this point.

 

[Soi-Fong]

I know Microsofts PR is basically shot, but I feel like the hardware differences between the 2 consoles will not make much of a difference. I totally agree that MOST consumers will be purchasing these consoles based on the games available and their relationship with the previous generation as opposed to the superior hardware. PS3 came out a year after 360 and was touted as being 50% more powerful, aside from some gorgeous PS3 exclusives, I didn't see any difference in 3rd party games and imo Halo 4 was one of the best looking console games of this generation.

That 400 dollar price will make a difference, if you forgot.. Lol People are now downplaying price..

 

[NullPointer]

You know, the more immature and imbalanced bashing I read of anything MS reps say, the off the fence toward the X1 I get pushed.

You guys have no idea how bad you're coming off ...

But it's mature to want to buy a console because of forum trolling? I don't think you've thought your cunning plan all the way through.

Console war stuff is annoying, but come on, spin is always deconstructed here. Emperors strutting around GAF need Final Fantasy quantities of belts and locks because we'll tear those clothes to shreds right quick.

 

[Anth1888]

I know some posters are saying 3rd party games won't be that different but didn't Ubisoft say recently that The Division will have console-specific differences? If these 'differences' are indeed hardware related (instead of exclusive DLC) it will be interesting to see.

 

[KrAzEd]

That 100 dollar price will make a difference, if you forgot..

Of course, but I feel like the "hardcore" gaming group won't change sides over a 100$, the kids who ask for systems for the holidays on the other hand will def be a harder sell for Microsoft.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

You know, the more immature and imbalanced bashing I read of anything MS reps say, the off the fence toward the X1 I get pushed.

You guys have no idea how bad you're coming off ...

Now *this* is how you do proper PR.
"If you keep making fun of the console, you're only going to make me want to buy it more!"

Next thing I know Microsoft is going to pretend Xbox One is the underdog.

 

[SapientWolf]

I know Microsofts PR is basically shot, but I feel like the hardware differences between the 2 consoles will not make much of a difference. I totally agree that MOST consumers will be purchasing these consoles based on the games available and their relationship with the previous generation as opposed to the superior hardware. PS3 came out a year after 360 and was touted as being 50% more powerful, aside from some gorgeous PS3 exclusives, I didn't see any difference in 3rd party games and imo Halo 4 was one of the best looking console games of this generation.

The two consoles had different architectures but the real world performance was roughly similar. In this case, the architectures are much more similar, but the theoretical performance favors the PS4 by a significant margin (if the rumors are accurate). Worst case scenario would be a 7770 vs a 7850, and PC benchmarks show the 7850 getting around twice the framerate.

 

[mrklaw]

This thread should be fun. As if we don't already have enough places to crap on MS.

It's not meaningless, but I at least see what he's saying. The divide is a lot less than it used to be.

What he is saying is 'we shouldn't get into a pissing match over ultimately meaningless metrics'
.
.
'Oh cloud power, instant switching, we'll be technically better and magic'

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Really Microsoft? It wasn't like that for the 360.

http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-1-of-4/

http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-1-of-4/
http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-2-of-4/
http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-3-of-4/
http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-4-of-4/

God damn.

Our guys’ll say, we touched every single component in the box and everything there is tweaked for optimum performance.[/B] For me, I’d rather not even have the conversation, because it’s not going to matter.

But have they touched every component? Because, according to that DF article, I'm pretty sure they would've realized that their system was more powerful than they though (apparently).

I can't wait for the BS talk part of this gen to pass already.

 

[Delusibeta]

Of course, but I feel like the "hardcore" gaming group won't change sides over a 100$, the kids who ask for systems for the holidays on the other hand will def be a harder sell for Microsoft.

So, in other words a good 75% of the market this Christmas will be difficult for Microsoft to get.

 

[MDSLKTR]

You know, the more immature and imbalanced bashing I read of anything MS reps say, the off the fence toward the X1 I get pushed.

You guys have no idea how bad you're coming off ...

And you are so cool!

 

[Deitus]

I appreciate those who understand the point I was trying to get across. It’s always hard, after sitting doing interviews all day, and you’re trying to have an engaging conversation with someone, and words get pulled out our the tone what you’re trying to say didn’t come out how you meant it.

You should also understand this interview was done after our launch event, and prior to E3. So please take that into consideration.

I’m not diminishing Sony’s performance claims and I wasn’t trying to be arrogant or dismissive. What I was trying to say is – I’m not Sony’s engineering team. So I can’t comment on what they have published as specs. I know what our teams are doing, and I know how they thought about architecting the system. The guys who are building these machines (on both sides) are unbelievably talented and experts in their field. Nobody knows the specifics of how the machines are architected or if there may be bottlenecks in one system or accelerators in another that change the impact of the published specs.

What I believe is that our games are going to be great and they are going to look next-gen, and I *think* E3 sort of showed that. And great games are what matters. And while you guys joke about the cloud stuff, I think the stuff the Respawn guys have said starts to clear up what we’ve been talking about with cloud performance (cue the “have you seen Titanfall” meme)

Games on both systems looked awesome. I was there, and while I know RISE took a hit on the gameplay that was shown, I thought it was the most next-gen looking game I saw on either platform. Of course, I get I’m biased and I didn’t have time to see everything.

As always, I love taking the hits. And I appreciate that while the words I used may were probably worth some scrutiny, I do appreciate that some of you got what I was trying to say.

(BTW the picture in that article is not me, but it is my good looking friend Kevin who works in Marketing)

I respect you for coming here and stating your case. I agree with many of the things that you have said, but not necessarily to the degree that you are emphasizing them.

It's true that specs alone will not lead to market dominance. Certainly we have seen many times before where the number one selling console in a generation was not a graphical powerhouse compared to its direct competitors. It does ultimately come down to games, and to a lesser degree features.

But specs are still important. If they weren't, we wouldn't have a new generation of consoles, everyone would just keep making and buying games for the 360 and PS3. The only reason to switch to a new generation of consoles is for the increased power (and feature-sets) enabled by a new batch of hardware. It's up to game developers to make new games for the hardware, but it's up to the hardware manufacturer to make a case for why customers should want to purchase a new piece of hardware, and why they should even want developers to make games that require them to purchase a $400+ console. If specs were ultimately irrelevant, everyone in the world would rather not buy an expensive new system.

When it comes to games, the vast majority of games on both consoles will be multiplatform releases. While Halo and Uncharted will probably move a lot of units for their respective fans, a large number of players are going to be buying a new console to play new EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Square Enix, etc. games. For those customers, why would they want to purchase the console that ostensibly will run those games worse than the competition. Especially if the console with higher performance is ultimately cheaper. The mass market may not be solely motivated by performance, but they are surely motivated by value. More for less is a hard proposition to pass up.

As for the cloud, yes Respawn has made a good case for what Microsoft is doing with dedicated servers in the Xbox One. That can only be a good thing for multiplayer gaming for sure. But it has nothing to do with the promises Microsoft has made about "the infinite power of the cloud" or how it can multiply the performance of the Xbox One by a factor of 4. Quite frankly, I have not seen a single good use case presented by Microsoft or their partners where cloud computing could be used to noticeably improve performance in a console game.

So for myself, and many other potential customers, I just don't feel like Microsoft has done a very good job of explaining why the Xbox One will be a good value to me as a customer, outside of nebulous promises.

 

[Gadirok]

You know, the more immature and imbalanced bashing I read of anything MS reps say, the off the fence toward the X1 I get pushed.

You guys have no idea how bad you're coming off ...

I bet you bought a PS3 real early last gen too.

 

[AppleSmack]

It's like he threw in that last paragraph as a shoutout to all the Neogaf mockery of the cloud.

 

[Najaf]

5 BILLION TRANSISTORS

My thoughts exactly when reading the OP.

 

[Arkam]

I think he hit the nail on the head with the fact that 99.99% of the people who are comparing the hardware have NO CLUE what they are talking about.

I mean the stuff I read on here alone makes me laugh for days. I am not an engineer, but I did study CS in college and been a PC hardware enthusiast since the early 90's. And I only understand it on a rudimentary level.

Here is a news flash IF you have to go to Wikipedia to look up the difference between pieces of hardware to make an argument you have NO PLACE arguing about it.
Of course that wont stop most...

 

[Pimpbaa]

You don't need to be a hardware engineer to know the difference between a radeon 7850 and a 7770.

 

[KrAzEd]

So, in other words a good 75% of the market this Christmas will be difficult for Microsoft to get.

The topic of conversation isn't price point, its whether or not the hardware specs will make a difference to consumers. Time will tell how much that 100$ will hurt them, but I wouldn't be surprised if they undercut Sony and came out with a 300$ subsidized version with a 2 year XBL gold contract.

 

[MikeE21286]

Is this not what you say when you have the weaker console? I think so...

 

[koryuken]

the power of the cloud.

And Titanfall...

 

[koryuken]

You know, the more immature and imbalanced bashing I read of anything MS reps say, the off the fence toward the X1 I get pushed.

You guys have no idea how bad you're coming off ...

LOL, please buy the Xbone then... Microsoft needs help this gen.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Microsoft should do the smart thing and stop mentioning specs. They are worse. Everybody who cares enough to know it knows it. It will probably show in the games that come out for the most part.

When you're on the losing end of something you don't keep bringing it up. Let others do that. You shut up and do your thing. This company honestly needs PR lessons. I'm glad to teach though, so any MS employee hit me up.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

You know, the more immature and imbalanced bashing I read of anything MS reps say, the off the fence toward the X1 I get pushed.

You guys have no idea how bad you're coming off ...

So, you're going to buy the less-powerful system that costs $100 more to spite GAF?

LOL. That'll show 'em, brave warrior.

 

[GoofsterStud]

The company known for spouting specs and trying to spin things is staying silent.

>.> Is it possible it's worse than we thought? Downclock confirmed?

 

[demolitio]

"Specs don't matter but THE CLOUD does."

That whole pitch needs to disappear right away as it's one of the PR statements that is insulting to hardcore gamers. Openly explain it more than letting some devs do the work for you instead of just saying it improves your console or makes it drastically more powerful like they said in previous statements. Give examples and what it actually does for gaming and it will actually be a selling a point instead of a lame PR point that is to counteract the power disadvantage and if people didn't care about power, then why mention the cloud in every statement about hardware specs as some great equalizer?

You can't have it both ways and broad PR statements somehow aren't going to convince anyone if they weren't already convinced after the first 1,000 mentions of the cloud. Explain why it makes your console better instead of saying the usual about increasing performance drastically...

It's pretty sad when the best information about that has come from Respawn. I do agree that specs aren't going to be a big focus to most people buying this at Christmas, but it's enough of a difference to matter to us and it sure as hell mattered to MS last generation when they were giving all these "comparisons" so you can't have it both ways and act nonchalant over it when you've made a big deal of it in the past. And for those where the spec comparisons don't matter, price sure as hell does if their previous system or game preferences don't negate that.

Sometimes they just need to take a break from the PR talk and Sony has actually done a good job of taking that approach for a change. Less is more sometimes...

 

[True Underdog]

sounds like an underdog argument.

I wouldn't say this crap.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Give examples and what it actually does for gaming and it will actually be a selling a point

They would if they could.

 

[Myshkin]

Why don't journalists bring this stuff up in interviews?

I think the hardest hitting question we can expect from gaming journalists is:

Is there any danger the cloud will become sentient and destroy humanity?

 

[Verachi]

MS

What are you doing?

MS

Staph!

http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-1-of-4/
http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-2-of-4/
http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-3-of-4/
http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-4-of-4/

Major lels were had.

 

[Soi-Fong]

"Specs don't matter but THE CLOUD does."

That whole pitch needs to disappear right away as it's one of the PR statements that is insulting to hardcore gamers. Openly explain it more than letting some devs do the work for you instead of just saying it improves your console or makes it drastically more powerful like they said in previous statements. Give examples and what it actually does for gaming and it will actually be a selling a point instead of a lame PR point that is to counteract the power disadvantage and if people didn't care about power, then why mention the cloud in every statement about hardware specs as some great equalizer?

You can't have it both ways and broad PR statements somehow aren't going to convince anyone if they weren't already convinced after the first 1,000 mentions of the cloud. Explain why it makes your console better instead of saying the usual about increasing performance drastically...

It's pretty sad when the best information about that has come from Respawn. I do agree that specs aren't going to be a big focus to most people buying this at Christmas, but it's enough of a difference to matter to us and it sure as hell mattered to MS last generation when they were giving all these "comparisons" so you can't have it both ways and act nonchalant over it when you've made a big deal of it in the past. And for those where the spec comparisons don't matter, price sure as hell does if their previous system or game preferences don't negate that.

Sometimes they just need to take a break from the PR talk and Sony has actually done a good job of taking that approach for a change. Less is more sometimes...

XBONE has better launch games.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Stole this from another thread (thank you SirIgbyCeaser), thought it would be appropriate:



Microsoft, what a bunch of hypocrites...

wow, exposed.

 

[Verachi]

http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-1-of-4/
http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-2-of-4/
http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-3-of-4/
http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-4-of-4/

I wouldn't say this crap.

Funnily enough when I read that post you were the first person I thought of.

 

[lastflowers]

"Specs don't matter but THE CLOUD does."

That whole pitch needs to disappear right away as it's one of the PR statements that is insulting to hardcore gamers. Openly explain it more than letting some devs do the work for you instead of just saying it improves your console or makes it drastically more powerful like they said in previous statements. Give examples and what it actually does for gaming and it will actually be a selling a point instead of a lame PR point that is to counteract the power disadvantage and if people didn't care about power, then why mention the cloud in every statement about hardware specs as some great equalizer?

You can't have it both ways and broad PR statements somehow aren't going to convince anyone if they weren't already convinced after the first 1,000 mentions of the cloud. Explain why it makes your console better instead of saying the usual about increasing performance drastically...

It's pretty sad when the best information about that has come from Respawn. I do agree that specs aren't going to be a big focus to most people buying this at Christmas, but it's enough of a difference to matter to us and it sure as hell mattered to MS last generation when they were giving all these "comparisons" so you can't have it both ways and act nonchalant over it when you've made a big deal of it in the past. And for those where the spec comparisons don't matter, price sure as hell does if their previous system or game preferences don't negate that.

Sometimes they just need to take a break from the PR talk and Sony has actually done a good job of taking that approach for a change. Less is more sometimes...

I don't know about power, but I do think that having 'da klowd' can enhance gameplay in interesting ways by expanding the interconnectivity of gamers.

See my example of an interesting use (at least to me):

One of my basic thoughts is changing level structure of ai opponents based on the gaming collectives' history with a level. Say there are 10 different ways to enter a compound. Vanilla level has guards mainly tightly controlling 6 of the ten tightly (b,c,h,i,j,k), and 4 of them in larger paths (a,d,e,f,g). After 80% of gamers targeted a certain 5 of the entrances (a,c,d,f,g,h), guard routines are sent down by the 'cloud' to adjust their paths. Now, (a,b,c,d,f,g,h) are the tightly covered entrances with lower 'spook' meters--making these entrances much harder to use.


The ai routine defaults to a certain path and structure, but the cloud offers the ability to dynamically alter the weights of certain locations on the game-map. Cutting off previous scenarios and encouraging players to move a certain way through the map that hasn't previously been explored by other players.

----

In Forza, they collect a lot of data on players previously to make an AI. That AI was crunched client side. With the 'cloud', they could iterate much more quickly on the algorithm to create these AIs, and also deploy them in much smaller batches. They could collect much more data and crunch it while the players console is offline rather than forcing them to wait.


In FPS, the entire global player data can be collected and analyzed. CS:GO, Valve tracks every bullet fired by every gun and where it hits other players. They track the kills/shot avg, and HS percentage, etc etc. Developers might be able to utlize that massive amount of information about how players are playing their games to create more useful client updates or dynamic map alterations.

With an RPG, you could enter a city which pings your entrance to a dev's cloud setup. Say you have some friends on your friends list, or friends of friends of friends all get lumped together into a virtual instance of the city where you can see other players. Similar to guildwars, but within a purely single-player experience. You might be able to trade loot with the players, but you can't group up. How crazy would it have been to be running around Ni No Kuni with other players that populate the cities?


Again, nothing unique, but lower cost in developing the hardware and infrastructure frees up resources to reinvest in creating different interactive experiences. My hope is to see the Demon Souls/Dark Souls inter-player relationships become more interesting as this next generation unfolds. This cloud infrastructure appears to me to indicate that the xbox team is investing heavily in these types of experiences, and encouraging developers to develop around 'interactive and dynamic' events.


EDIT: And of course my thoughts are just simple exercises...they could be completely garbage. Just my brief thoughts on such possibilities. I'm no game designer, but this and interactivity using the online systems are what I want from this generation. Increased graphics are one thing. Dynamic events and worlds and games are far, far more interesting to me.

 

[Dark Octave]

In this case, that easier system is the PS4. Cerny even said in Gamelab that all third parties asked for unified memory. There's a reason for that and more than likely PS4 will be lead dev platform then port down to XBONE.

I plan to main PS4 next gen where I was 360 this gen so if true, this is great news for me. I got to sit back and shake my head while PS3 owners here cried about performance issues with multiplats like Skyrim and Bayonetta.

Hopefully they're both easy enough to work with this time around though.

 

[8bits]

Why is everyone giving Microsoft shit for saying this? Everybody acknowledges that gameplay > graphics, so what's the problem? Don't like it, don't buy it.

It's the same approach that Nintendo has, where instead of going for raw power, they add some kind of functionality that sets it apart from the other consoles.

Greatest overstatement on these boards.

 

[lastflowers]

Greatest overstatement on these boards.

yeah, the natural question to that statement is: 'why not both?'