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[Mr. B Natural]

That the Wii U is underpowered (and it is in comparison to its upcoming competition) has *nothing* to do with what actually sells consoles. It is NOT hardware. It IS software. That's a fact, and it has been proven over and over throughout gaming history.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39702565&postcount=19

It has been proven this generation that hardware gimmicks boost sales more than software does or, at least, that hardware gimmickry can be just as good as a system seller than any software. Nintendo Wii sold not because it had mario in it (the gamecube had that as well) and not because it was underpowered, but because of motion controls. Same for kinect. Huge success, kept the 360 alive while everyone else is fading.

There's a reason why Nintendo showed what it did at E3, and it's not because they agree with you. There's a reason why the 3ds is a 3d...s. There's a reason why nobody thinks Microsoft is abandoning the kinect any time soon and there's a reason why the Wii-U is a tablet thingy. There's a reason why nobody is banking on traditional gaming to the extent that it did last generation with the Xbox, PS2 and gamecube. The ds, and more so the Wii, proved the software > hardware argument not necessarily wrong but definitely left it open ended.

Gaming, by the way, is way too young to have its "history" prove something. This isn't plate tectonics. Things are shifting all the time and quickly, and it's really hard to predict because we have pretty much no data to predict it. Pachter gets a lot of mockery here in Gaf, but his job is a bitch.

 

[USC-fan]

When you hear that a Console is going to have 8GB of ram your 1st thought is this is going to be a beast.

Yeah for someone that doesn't understand tech.

Sure wasnt my first thought. My first thought was they are using slow ram.

 

[StevieP]

It has been proven this generation that hardware gimmicks boost sales more than software does or, at least, that hardware gimmickry can be just as good as a system seller than any software. Nintendo Wii sold not because it had mario in it (the gamecube had that as well) and not because it was underpowered, but because of motion controls. Same for kinect.

There's a reason why Nintendo showed what it did at E3, and it's not because they agree with you. There's a reason why the 3ds is a 3d...s. There's a reason why nobody thinks Microsoft is abandoning the kinect any time soon and there's a reason why the Wii-U is a tablet thingy. There's a reason why nobody is banking on traditional gaming to the extent that it did last generation with the Xbox, PS2 and gamecube. The ds, and more so the Wii, proved the software > hardware argument not necessarily wrong but definitely left it open ended.

You can have all the hardware in the world but if you don't have the software to sell it to the masses nobody will care.

I'm not personally convinced that Nintendoland will sell as many pieces of gaming hardware as Wii Sports did (brilliant piece of software, from a mass market standpoint, which combined with great word-of-mouth and the "wii would like to play" ad campaign sold a gazillion consoles) but I could be proven wrong.

MS will be bundling a higher resolution Kinect sensor with every console, but they still need the software (and advertising) to convince people to go out and buy it. "Control your TV by talking to it like Star Trek and waving your hands like Minority report, while your daughter in the other room watches DVR content from the box on her tablet" may make for an interesting campaign, for example.

 

[ASIS]

It has been proven this generation that hardware gimmicks boost sales more than software does or, at least, that hardware gimmickry can be just as good as a system seller than any software. Nintendo Wii sold not because it had mario in it (the gamecube had that as well) and not because it was underpowered, but because of motion controls. Same for kinect.

There's a reason why Nintendo showed what it did at E3, and it's not because they agree with you. There's a reason why the 3ds is a 3d...s. There's a reason why nobody thinks Microsoft is abandoning the kinect any time soon and there's a reason why the Wii-U is a tablet thingy. There's a reason why nobody is banking on traditional gaming to the extent that it did last generation with the Xbox, PS2 and gamecube. The ds, and more so the Wii, proved the software > hardware argument not necessarily wrong but definitely left it open ended.

That is completely untrue. By and large the thing that made the Wii the success that it had become is Wii sports. Its not the motion controls only (PSmove says hi) and the reason why Wii isn't selling as well as it used IS because of the software, the reason why MS is taking the lead for now is not just because of Kinect, its because of the way kinect is marketed for a certain type of audience and it works because of their games. Finally, despite the fact that MS is currently the leading the market is not due to their breakthrough, it is the Wii that has stepped back. the 360 is still pushing moderate to solid numbers but nothing that touches the highs of the Wii.

Hardware can only help boost success, but it can never, ever, define it.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

You can have all the hardware in the world but if you don't have the software to sell it to the masses nobody will care.

I'm not personally convinced that Nintendoland will sell as many pieces of gaming hardware as Wii Sports did (brilliant piece of software, from a mass market standpoint, which combined with great word-of-mouth and the "wii would like to play" ad campaign sold a gazillion consoles) but I could be proven wrong.

MS will be bundling a higher resolution Kinect sensor with every console, but they still need the software (and advertising) to convince people to go out and buy it.

Kinect disagrees. Wii, to a lesser extent, disagrees as well. In both cases, it was the hardware that captured people's attention and the software came next (or didn't come, or sell, at all in MS's case).

If hardware "captures the audience" then hardware captures the audience. That, then, is the selling point.

And, again, this may change tomorrow. This may not be a trend. But, it may be. I'm just saying that it's not 2001 anymore. The "hardware doesn't sell" argument has been dented and quite a bit this gen.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

That is completely untrue. By and large the thing that made the Wii the success that it had become is Wii sports. Its not the motion controls only (PSmove says hi) and the reason why Wii isn't selling as well as it used IS because of the software, the reason why MS is taking the lead for now is not just because of Kinect, its because of the way kinect is marketed for a certain type of audience and it works because of their games. Finally, despite the fact that MS is currently the leading the market is not due to their breakthrough, it is the Wii that has stepped back. the 360 is still pushing moderate to solid numbers but nothing that touches the highs of the Wii.

Hardware can only help boost success, but it can never, ever, define it.

Arguing that it was the game's quality that sold Wii sports because you need to have a game in your console before it works is like saying hardware sells software because without a disc player, you can't play Wii Sports.

Wii Sports as a game was nothing special. It demoed the hardware with generic sports applications. That alone, was all Nintendo needed because people were sold on the concept the hardware provided. It was New Controller: the Video game. Without the new hardware, Wii Sports would not even existed because Nintendo wouldn't dare make a game for a classic controller and not call it Mario Party. They're not stupid. Last I checked Bowling, Golf, Tennis games for the Gamecube did ok, but not Wii numbers.

 

[Throwaway123456789]

I think MS is going in a fundamentally different direction than Nintendo. MS is trying to create a central unified entertainment box for the home, Nintendo is a pure gaming company.

Wii U has a browser, Netflix, Amazon Video, YouTube, Hulu, its own integrated "Twitter" like message system, video chat and all that shit.

And why the Wii had a news channel, weather channel, BBC iPlayer, Netflix, etc etc etc.

Hell, even the 3DS has tons of non gaming stuff on it. Nintendo might not be as crazy about these things like MS, but they sure have a lot of it for being a "pure" gaming company.

 

[StevieP]

Wii U has a browser, Netflix, Amazon Video, YouTube, Hulu, its own integrated "Twitter" like message system, video chat and all that shit.

And why the Wii had a news channel, weather channel, BBC iPlayer, Netflix, etc etc etc.

Hell, even the 3DS has tons of non gaming stuff on it. Nintendo might not be as crazy about these things like MS, but they sure have a lot of it for being a "pure" gaming company.

Outside of the rudimentary news/weather channels on the Wii (which really just interface with other services like AP/Reuters feeds) I don't think Nintendo was the one that coded the Amazon/Netflix/etc apps.

Their internal development teams are mostly interested in games, whether they're core or expanded-audience games. They are the only current console hardware company that would go under if gaming were to die out tomorrow, so they have a vested interest in growing the gaming population.

With that said, the Dark Souls-type messaging system and video chat etc on the Wii U is integrated into whatever its online service will become ("Miiverse"). Those definitely have ancillary focuses.

Kinect disagrees. Wii, to a lesser extent, disagrees as well. In both cases, it was the hardware that captured people's attention and the software came next (or didn't come, or sell, at all in MS's case).

You honestly believe that Kinect sold on its hardware, not on its software and advertising?!

Wii Sports as a game was nothing special. It demoed the hardware with generic sports applications. That alone, was all Nintendo needed because people were sold on the concept the hardware provided.

Never mind. This is revisionism.

Nintendo wouldn't dare make a game for a classic controller and not call it Mario Party

Oh dear. That's a trollish statement not even worth responding to and would result in an even bigger thread derailment.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

Outside of the rudimentary news/weather channels on the Wii (which really just interface with other services like AP/Reuters feeds) I don't think Nintendo was the one that coded the Amazon/Netflix/etc apps.

Their internal development teams are mostly interested in games, whether they're core or expanded-audience games. They are the only current console hardware company that would go under if gaming were to die out tomorrow, so they have a vested interest in growing the gaming population.

With that said, the Dark Souls-type messaging system and video chat etc on the Wii U is integrated into whatever its online service will become ("Miiverse"). Those definitely have ancillary focuses.

I never really thought about this. It's crazy.

Thanks for sparking my brain.

 

[LQX]

Yeah for someone that doesn't understand tech.

Sure wasnt my first thought. My first thought was they are using slow ram.

Ram spec has advanced so much in the last few years MS would have to resort to really old technology for any sort of 8GB configuration not be beneficial and more than useful regardless of speed.

 

[StevieP]

Ram spec has advanced so much in the last few years MS would have to resort to really old technology for any sort of 8GB configuration not be beneficial and more than useful regardless of speed.

Google the geforce 650m metrics. It comes in 2 configurations.
1 with GDDR5, 1 with DDR3. Look at the performance differences between one and the other, despite the fact that the chip is exactly the same.

With that said, having a lot of memory is never a "bad" thing, regardless of speed, bandwidth, and latency.

 

[USC-fan]

Ram spec has advanced so much in the last few years MS would have to resort to really old technology for any sort of 8GB configuration not be beneficial and more than useful regardless of speed.

What ram spec? DDR3 is too slow for consoles.

 

[Cuth]

They listened to Crytek/Dice/etc is what they did. That's the big change from the leaked 2010 stuff that I know of, and could possibly be what was heard by Alberto on the grapevine.

If (big if) they listened to devs about "raising the ceiling by what we would traditionally consider a generational leap", I doubt they doubled the RAM keeping a 1 TFLOPs GPU.

I'm still surprised about the fact that some people are so fast in believing the rumor apparently coming just from this guy "lherre" (rumor that no one can provide a quote of), ignoring every other hint that can go in a different direction.
IMHO there's nothing clear at the moment about the GPU and I really want more info to come out.

 

[USC-fan]

If (big if) they listened to devs about "raising the ceiling by what we would traditionally consider a generational leap", I doubt they doubled the RAM keeping a 1 TFLOPs GPU.

I'm still surprised about the fact that some people are so fast in believing the rumor apparently coming just from this guy "lherre" (rumor that no one can provide a quote of), ignoring every other hint that can go in a different direction.
IMHO there's nothing clear at the moment about the GPU and I really want more info to come out.

Funny this 1 tflop gpu number keep get posted but i have yet to see one place where this has been reported.

I have seen nothing that back this up. Every thing we have is way above 1TF.

 

[makingmusic476]

Outside of the rudimentary news/weather channels on the Wii (which really just interface with other services like AP/Reuters feeds) I don't think Nintendo was the one that coded the Amazon/Netflix/etc apps.

Their internal development teams are mostly interested in games, whether they're core or expanded-audience games. They are the only current console hardware company that would go under if gaming were to die out tomorrow, so they have a vested interest in growing the gaming population.

With that said, the Dark Souls-type messaging system and video chat etc on the Wii U is integrated into whatever its online service will become ("Miiverse"). Those definitely have ancillary focuses.



You honestly believe that Kinect sold on its hardware, not on its software and advertising?!



Never mind. This is revisionism.



Oh dear. That's a trollish statement not even worth responding to and would result in an even bigger thread derailment.

One thing I've wondered, is Wii U gonna be able to play DVDs or Blu-rays?

The Wii uses a DVD player but can't play DVDs, because at launch Nintendo intended for the console to be nothing more than a gaming console. Then Netflix eventually made its way to the console, and Nintendo is clearly seeing the popularity of other media related features, thus allowing for more apps on Wii U, but I have yet to hear anything about regular movie playback.

The console is using a variant of a Blu-ray drive, isn't it? It seems logical they'd allow disc-based movie playback as well.

 

[Canis lupus]

Man whats up with these $99 720 rumours? Hoep they're not true, I dont want the nextbox to become a service based machine.

 

[bgassassin]

The laughing face was about the 4tf card the op was talking about.

Where did BG say its around 1 TF. I havent seen that posted anywhere. I sure bg will be in here to correct this.

Unless you took this 1+ to mean around a tflop which would be pushing it to say the least...

This is correct. I was laughing at the idea of Xbox 3 having an 8970 according to the Russian insider or whoever it was saying it.

And yeah 1+ TFLOPs, not ~1 TFLOP.

 

[StevieP]

One thing I've wondered, is Wii U gonna be able to play DVDs or Blu-rays?

The Wii uses a DVD player but can't play DVDs, because at launch Nintendo intended for the console to be nothing more than a gaming console. Then Netflix eventually made its way to the console, and Nintendo is clearly seeing the popularity of other media related features, thus allowing for more apps on Wii U, but I have yet to hear anything about regular movie playback.

The console is using a variant of a Blu-ray drive, isn't it? It seems logical they'd allow disc-based movie playback as well.

Not out of the box, no. Not by default. Licensing fees are a no no for Nintendo. I think MS will pay for theirs. Unlike the Wii, HDMI 1.4 with PCM will allow the license to be issued via payment to an app. Either from Nintendo or PowerDVD or what have you.

This is correct. I was laughing at the idea of Xbox 3 having an 8970 according to the Russian insider or whoever it was saying it.

And yeah 1+ TFLOP, not ~1 TFLOP.

You have said "~1tf" before, however. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your source would've said "2+" if it was a better metric than "1+". The question is whether your source means 1.2 or 1.5 etc etc

 

[Barack Lesnar]

came in here to read about durango and am bombarded with 50 straight posts about the wii u.
awesome

 

[El_Chino]

came in here to read about durango and am bombarded with 50 straight posts about the wii u.
awesome

Haha same here.

 

[bgassassin]

You have said "~1tf" before, however. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your source would've said "2+" if it was a better metric than "1+". The question is whether your source means 1.2 or 1.5 etc etc

You sure you aren't thinking of the post I made where I was told PS4's GPU would be ~2 TFLOPs?

But you have the same view as me on the latter part.

 

[StevieP]

came in here to read about durango and am bombarded with 50 straight posts about the wii u.
awesome

Maybe if you read the context of why the Wii and Wii U was mentioned, you wouldn't have made this comment. The discussion generated on hardware being sold by software, and how the next generation of Kinect being included in the Durango's box could impact it. The discussion on "non-gaming" aspects (such as media streaming) of these boxes was also brought into the discussion, and that's why you see Blu Ray licenses being discussed on this page. Reading the thread and following the discussion often brings insight as to why it takes place.

You sure you aren't thinking of the post I made where I was told PS4's GPU would be ~2 TFLOPs?

But you have the same view as me on the latter part.

Maybe I do recall you using the tilde character on the ~2tf, but it turns out the "approximately 2tf" mentioned to you was referring to 1.86tf. I wonder if your source is allowed to narrow down where in the "1tf+" mark stands. For reference, the pastebin leak mentions "1.2tf" which would corroborate what you were told.

 

[USC-fan]

Maybe if you read the context of why the Wii and Wii U was mentioned, you wouldn't have made this comment. The discussion generated on hardware being sold by software, and how the next generation of Kinect being included in the Durango's box could impact it. The discussion on "non-gaming" aspects (such as media streaming) of these boxes was also brought into the discussion, and that's why you see Blu Ray licenses being discussed on this page. Reading the thread and following the discussion often brings insight as to why it takes place.



Maybe I do recall you using the tilde character on the ~2tf, but it turns out the "approximately 2tf" mentioned to you was referring to 1.86tf. I wonder if your source is allowed to narrow down where in the "1tf+" mark stands. For reference, the pastebin leak mentions "1.2tf" which would corroborate what you were told.

Well to be more powerful than ps4 it will have to be around ps4 or higher. Could still be a moving target so maybe that is why we havent heard anything.

 

[teh_pwn]

You mean by offering only a moderate power increase over the current generation because they want to emphasize their online services and multimedia capabilities which will likely be restricted to North America only? I am very sceptical about such a concept, I want them to focus on games.

Hardcore gamers don't play on consoles only. They're 7 years old and if you've seen Xbox 360 in the last 2 years (ads, ads, ads, more ads, kinect, ads, multimedia, xbox live gold with ads), what this patent/leaked document describe is an extension of this market strategy. They'll probably be very successful too if they can get enough content.

 

[StevieP]

Well to be more powerful than ps4 it will have to be around ps4 or higher. Could still be a moving target so maybe that is why we havent heard anything.

No, because you're only looking at 1 dimension, 1 aspect of what "power" constitutes.

It seems to you GPU == Power. Let's say you had a lower level GPU but a 8x more powerful CPU, would the box still be "underpowered"? How about a 3x CPU and Lower GPU, but oodles of RAM?

http://74.200.65.90/showpost.php?p=1645466&postcount=11861

(note, he had specific values such as "8GB" and "Cape Verde" in the post before editing them out on *my* advice)

 

[bgassassin]

Maybe I do recall you using the tilde character on the ~2tf, but it turns out the "approximately 2tf" mentioned to you was referring to 1.86tf. I wonder if your source is allowed to narrow down where in the "1tf+" mark stands. For reference, the pastebin leak mentions "1.2tf" which would corroborate what you were told.

Forgot about the pastebin rumor. But yeah that fits. Hopefully I can get some info from another person or someone else leaks something.

Well to be more powerful than ps4 it will have to be around ps4 or higher. Could still be a moving target so maybe that is why we havent heard anything.

If we're citing lherre, he said Xbox 3 was pretty much set if I remember correctly.

 

[USC-fan]

No, because you're only looking at 1 dimension, 1 aspect of what "power" constitutes.



http://74.200.65.90/showpost.php?p=1645466&postcount=11861

(note, he had specific values such as "8GB" and "Cape Verde" in the post before editing them out on *my* advice)

Yes it does matter. Going by the specs not just one specs. You have a 1.86 tf gpu and very fast gddr5 ram. Now it may be a debate at 2 GB of ram but at 4GB the ps4 would blow it out the water.

4 core steamroller with a 1.86 tfglop amd gpu and gddr5 ram would murder even core i7 cpu and 1tfl card with 32 GB of ram. It would have to be around 1.5-6 to even put up a fight. Then it using ddr4 which is slower ram. You would be so GPU bound it wouldnt matter about the other specs. The system would be so unbalance.

Then add to the fact that the system are using the same amd cores. Its very easy to compare at this point.

If we're citing lherre, he said Xbox 3 was pretty much set if I remember correctly.

Yes and then he even said looking at these target specs the xbox 720 is a beast compare to even the ps4. Something is missing here...

 

[bgassassin]

Yes and then he even said looking at these target specs the xbox 720 is a beast compare to even the ps4. Something is missing here...

A more current opinion from him. Because like I've mentioned based on what I know I don't agree it's a beast compared to anything.

 

[USC-fan]

A more current opinion from him. Because like I've mentioned based on what I know I don't agree it's a beast compared to anything.

But you were even saying the same thing. You were comparing a wiiu to low power pc and ps4 to mid power and x720 to high end pc.

So when did you switch them? Or least i thought you did , i will have to look it up.

 

[StevieP]

Murder? C'mon dude.
Here's the difference you're talking about (approx 1.3 (bf3 on low, appropriate for a 7770) vs approx 1.8 (bf3 on high, appropriate for 7850)) quantified in a very simplistic manner:

 

[USC-fan]

Murder? C'mon dude.

What in the world does that prove?

You have 86% more gpu power. Every single game would look better on the ps4. It would not even be close at all comparing 1tf and 1.86tf.

 

[bgassassin]

But you were even saying the same thing. You were comparing a wiiu to low power pc and ps4 to mid power and x720 to high end pc.

So when did you switch them? Or least i thought you did , i will have to look it up.

I did say that. I switched when I got actual info for myself and not relying on posts from people I do trust with the info they provide. And that shouldn't be taken as a knock on them.

 

[onQ123]

Yes it does matter. Going by the specs not just one specs. You have a 1.86 tf gpu and very fast gddr5 ram. Now it may be a debate at 2 GB of ram but at 4GB the ps4 would blow it out the water.

4 core steamroller with a 1.86 tfglop amd gpu and gddr5 ram would murder even core i7 cpu and 1tfl card with 32 GB of ram. It would have to be around 1.5-6 to even put up a fight. Then it using ddr4 which is slower ram. You would be so GPU bound it wouldnt matter about the other specs. The system would be so unbalance.

Then add to the fact that the system are using the same amd cores. Its very easy to compare at this point.



Yes and then he even said looking at these target specs the xbox 720 is a beast compare to even the ps4. Something is missing here...

this is something that you have no way of knowing because if devs have no other choice they will find something to do with that 32GB of ram & might come up with a new approach that that blow the other console away.

 

[USC-fan]

this is something that you have no way of knowing because if devs have no other choice they will find something to do with that 32GB of ram & might come up with a new approach that that blow the other console away.

Yes i can. You can only used so much ram per frame. Unless the system have insane about of bandwidth and that would never be in a console. In the x720 they are not using fast ram so you can even use less than the ps4 has even if you have 10x as much. So you get great load times... who cares...

check out this post http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62108 Great read by a game developer.

 

[onQ123]

Yes i can. You can only used so much ram per frame. Unless the system have insane about of bandwidth and that would never be in a console. In the x720 they are not using fast ram so you can even use less than the ps4 has even if you have 10x as much. So you get great load times... who cares...

check out this post http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62108 Great read by a game developer.

I know about that but when you have a closed box & have to use it for years & years you learn things & if you're giving that much ram you would probably come up with something to take advantage of it.

 

[mrklaw]

Flops on their own don't mean much. But a 1.86tf GPU combined with GDDR5 (why aren't they going for XDR again?) should be moire capable of reaching its theoretical capabilities than a 1.2tf GPU connectedntonslownDDR3 - see SteveP's comments earlier about mobile GPUs like the 650m.

So the difference could be even more dramatic if durangoncant take advantage do what it has due to slow ram. The wildcard is, how much edram do MS include, and will it allow the GPU to run without being bottlenecked

Yes i can. You can only used so much ram per frame. Unless the system have insane about of bandwidth and that would never be in a console. In the x720 they are not using fast ram so you can even use less than the ps4 has even if you have 10x as much. So you get great load times... who cares...

check out this post http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62108 Great read by a game developer.

That's a really interesting read, thanks for posting it. They haven't come to a consensus on where the sweet spot is though. If you follow the OPs comments, you should be able to calculate a rough preferred memory size, based on memory bandwidth.

 

[ekim]

How many/much (which one is right? ) bandwidth per second does DDR5 RAM?

 

[mrklaw]

How many/much (which one is right? ) bandwidth per second does DDR5 RAM?

I think it's around 50GB/s, compared to around 25 for DDR3 (depending on the speed). The beyond 3D article numbers were based on DDR3, so in theory GDDR5 would provide twice as much data to the screen per frame.

 

[Ales]

They listened to Crytek/Dice/etc is what they did. That's the big change from the leaked 2010 stuff that I know of, and could possibly be what was heard by Alberto on the grapevine.

If MS really heard Epic,Crytek,Dice,ecc...the rumor on the 1 TFLOPS GPU does not make sense.
Epic has been pretty clear if you want a technological leap the GPU must be close to 2 TFLOPS.
With a GPU of 1 TFLOPS the UE4 would run to a minimum without many options.
There is something wrong if they really listened pump the ram is not enough but they have also worked heavily on the GPU.
It seems that not even MS knows the specifications of the xbox next LOL.

 

[specialguy]

What in the world does that prove?

You have 86% more gpu power. Every single game would look better on the ps4. It would not even be close at all comparing 1tf and 1.86tf.

It is not so simple, lets assume Orbis=2GB and Durango=8GB. Now look at PS3 and 360. Lets say there GPU's are roughly equal (they are).

So lets take PS3 down to 1/4 RAM (128MB) and 360 down to 1/2 GPU (we'll half the clock, from 500mhz to 250 mhz) to stimulate the Durango Orbis matchup. You then have a 360 with a 250mhz GPU and 512 RAM against a PS3 with a 500 mhz RSX and 128MB RAM. Who wins?

You can see easily, that it is not all about GPU power. PS3 would really, really suffer in being cut down to 128MB RAM (imagine Uncharted on 128MB LOL, that is a similar amount of RAM to the 3DS!). 360 would suffer in having only a half speed to current GPU. Who would have better looking games? I dont know, but I would probably take the 360.

We also have companies like Square and others really lauding the desire for more RAM next gen. Saying the biggest problem with the Agni demo was RAM.

I hope I've illustrated it's a multifaceted issue.

 

[specialguy]

I think it's around 50GB/s, compared to around 25 for DDR3 (depending on the speed). The beyond 3D article numbers were based on DDR3, so in theory GDDR5 would provide twice as much data to the screen per frame.

And what good is oodles of data if there is not enough RAM to satisfy it? If you can draw 1GB per frame to the screen, you are unbalanced if you only have 2GB of RAM altogether! Now you rapidly run out, and bam you commit frame rate suicide trying to load more from the hard drive or worse, the Blu Ray.

According to a post at B3D, 75-100GB/s of bandwidth (DDR4 range) can likely draw around 1GB/s to the screen at 60 FPS. Most games are 30 FPS, so that's 2GB/s. According to sebbi a dev at B3D, you may need from 3x-10x your per frame data in RAM. So even for slowass DDR4, that is 6GB-20GB! at 30 FPS. So, 5-8GB of RAM for Durango seems about right, whereas it could be Orbis ends up unbalanced, tons of bandwidth but not enough storage. This is all incredibly hypothetical of course, there are countless variables.

Also, the Durango could well have EDRAM, which could play into various bandwidth things in helpful ways.

Once again, multifaceted...

 

[ekim]

http://www.linkedin.com/in/hernandezandres?trk=pub-pbmap

February 2009 – Present (3 years 6 months)
Design, development and verfication of the XBOX console motherboard.

Not that much information at all but interesting enough to see that they work on the nextbox for over 3 years now.

 

[specialguy]

http://www.linkedin.com/in/hernandezandres?trk=pub-pbmap



Not that much information at all but interesting enough to see that they work on the nextbox for over 3 years now.

meh, could be 360 revisions.

even though as always, development on xb720 started in some sense the day 360 shipped.

 

[ekim]

Sounds about right. Sorry.
I'm just looking for some vital information on the cause.
But no luck so far. (Though the "site:" syntax is quite helpful on google)

 

[phosphor112]

No, because you're only looking at 1 dimension, 1 aspect of what "power" constitutes.



http://74.200.65.90/showpost.php?p=1645466&postcount=11861

(note, he had specific values such as "8GB" and "Cape Verde" in the post before editing them out on *my* advice)

Would a powerful cpu provide such an advantage since most games are... well... gpu based? (stream processing, etc)

 

[ekim]

And another one:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/naveen-pasupuleti/27/499/488

SDET at US-Xbox Research & BI People
April 2012 – Present (4 months) Greater Seattle Area

Working as a vendor at Microsoft. Deep data quality root cause analysis. To slice, dice and model the data. Data Analysis and Analytics using Excel with Power Pivot. UAT testing for the next Xbox release. Data Dictionary construction, publishing and maintenance. Data Validation testing for the new Cosmos data migration. Writing basic cosmos scope scripts for converting unstructured data streams to structured data streams. Research on Kinected consoles. Created 2 SQL agent jobs. Created SSIS package for getting structured data streams and loading into SQL tables using SQLizerLite loading.

If UAT (User acceptence testing) is running, they should be near the release afaik.
Cosmos is some query system for large data - http://www.goland.org/whatiscosmos/

 

[tinfoilhatman]

There's no way DDR3 will be in the next Xbox(as primary memory) it's just not enough bandwidth any way you measure it for gaming in HD, possibly DDR4 with a big chunk of EDRAM I guess.

 

[jeff_rigby]

And another one:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/naveen-pasupuleti/27/499/488

If UAT (User acceptence testing) is running, they should be near the release afaik.
Cosmos is some query system for large data - http://www.goland.org/whatiscosmos/

UAT testing for the next Xbox release. which is a Xbox 361 not Xbox 720 Right? This is the problem with rumors.

 

[ekim]

hm... you sneaky dogmatist

 

[jeff_rigby]

hm... you sneaky dogmatist

Not trying to be but without knowing there is a Xbox 361 coming (In Microsoft powerpoint) or PS3 revision 4000 there has been much confusion with Next Xbox and Next PS3. The Digitimes rumor even confused a PS3 and assumed it was a PS4.

All these job postings need revisited with this in mind. Xbox 361 must have started production Dec 2011 (Oban) as did the PS3 revision 4000 (Digitimes rumor). Work on both started 9/2010. Patents published and work on next Playstation & Vita or work on next Xbox started 9/2010