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[LCfiner]

Well, how many of you sold their used version of Angry Birds on their iPad?

Not saying it's a good thing, but for some reason only gamers are going crazy about it.

it's a matter of scale.

investing 1 dollar in Angry Birds is not the same as $60 on a console game.

And history is a part of it too. We're not used to having these types of restrictions on physical goods. console games have not had this type of DRM before and adding it now only adds complications and more cost to the consumer.

 

[Bunta]

MS really needs to step in and make an official statement. They're letting things get out of hand.

 

[Interrobang]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-21-xbox-one-second-hand-games-will-charge-a-fee-to-play
Update 2: Our man on the ground Tom Bramwell was able to speak to corporate vice president of Microsoft Phil Harrison about this hot-button issue and was able to confirm that a second user can install a game from a friend's disc for a fee, though it's unclear how much this will be. Harrison also confirmed that several users sharing a console can access the same game at no additional charge, and Microsoft has "a solution" for the resale market, though it's staying mum on those for now.

Uh... so that guy tweeting from the XboxSupport handle saying my friend wouldn't have to pay a fee straight-up had 100% wrong information? Comical.

 

[linkboy]

Not sure if posted already, Official Xbox Mag EIC says:

Jon Hicks
‏@MrJonty
On second hand games: you buy disc, it installs, you play from HD. Sell disc, it installs to new console and deactivates your install.

Ok, and now my internet has gone down, or LIVE is down and the game can't be activated and I can't play the game I just bought.

Way to go MS.

 

[Copenap]

My problem with all this is, that due to Steam and my PS Vita I actually would like to have a way to install my games and play them without the disc, also selling and buying used games is nothing I care for.

I do want to be able to play alle these games in 10 or 20 years however by just plugging my xbox one into my old 50" flat screen that is next to my holodeck and play.

 

[symphonask]

So it's basically the current XBLA setup - except applied to retail games.

 

[ultron87]

This is exactly what I expected and the worst case scenario.

Isn't that exactly how used games work today? You have disc and can play game. You sell disc and can't play game. Other person that bought disc can play game, without additional fee.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Player A connects online to install game
Player A gives/lends/sells game to Player B
Player B connects online to install game

How does MS deactivate Player A's copy if Player A stays offline after installing his copy?

That's why I think all the doomsayers are full of shit.

 

[godofcookery]

My immediate reaction is that the paywall may be a per game microtransaction, which then would be negated by paying for Xbox Live. Rules are made to be broken basically.

edit: Also, there seems to be very little info out there and too much of it is jumbled to have a sound reaction to it.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

EG: Why can't you talk about it today?

Harrison: Today is about introducing the platform and it's about introducing the big themes of what Xbox One is about as a new entertainment device that brings together games, TV and entertainment into one place. I think it's inappropriate for us to go into every avenue of tiny little detail today, but we will in due course, so...

EG: Okay. I mean, it's just funny having come from a panel where the amount of detail they were going into on the silicon and power-switching on that, to come in here and be told you can't talk about something that it sounds like you already know the answer to and would clear up a lot of people's suspicions and concerns.

Harrison: Well, let me say it again: we will have a solution that we will talk about in very short order about how previously played games can be traded between players.​

I just cant

 

[ZoddGutts]

A poster in another thread said it best:

Charging a fee is used game blocking.

 

[SteveWinwood]

There's no way it'll be higher than $10. I stake my credible NeoGAF reputation on it.

That's worth all of a cent.

 

[Nilaul]

No buy

 

[Foffy]

Not supporting this platform. Thanks for letting me save money, MS.

 

[yami4ct]

There's no way it'll be higher than $10. I stake my credible NeoGAF reputation on it.

Depends on how this stuff works. If it's really "you have to pay a fee for a second deactivation, no matter what", than I say $15 at most. If it's the more likely speculated, "you pay a fee for a second user to have access at the same time", then the sky's the limit.

 

[Kusagari]

Isn't that exactly how used games work today? You have disc and can play game. You sell disc and can't play game. Other person that now has disc can play game, without additional fee.

That's assuming there is no additional fee. His tweet does not mean there won't be an activation fee as well.

Being able to pass around your game disc, and be able to play it while still installed as some were theorizing, would have at least made the whole thing more palatable.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Player A connects online to install game
Player A gives/lends/sells game to Player B
Player B connects online to install game

How does MS deactivate Player A's copy if Player A stays offline after installing his copy?

It'll probably need to do a one time check online after a certain number of days. Like you can play offline for 48 hours or so without a Live connection but after that it needs to check. That way you don't have the issue of Live going down and stopping everyone playing games.

 

[Alec]

Player A connects online to install game
Player A gives/lends/sells game to Player B
Player B connects online to install game

How does MS deactivate Player A's copy if Player A stays offline after installing his copy?

What if it requires an internet connection to boot at all? (Once it is booted, it would be fine for the internet to get disconnected.)

 

[Paches]

So how does it deactivate the original install of a game on a hard drive if that Xbox isn't connected to the internet?

Something is afoot...

 

[Wasp14]

There's no way it'll be higher than $10. I stake my credible NeoGAF reputation on it.

That would mean someone could buy Halo 5 on release date, then immediately lend it to their friend who can play through and own the whole game for $10 (?) That doesn't make financial sense.

 

[FullMetalx117]

I absolutely can't wait! So many awesome features and the games look great! Price also seems like it is only $400. Take my money already Microsoft! Day f'n one! Excitement level at the max!

 

[AmFreak]

Maybe there are 2 options:
The first one what the Official XBox Magazine guy said:

On second hand games: you buy disc, it installs, you play from HD. Sell disc, it installs to new console and deactivates your install.

and the other:
Your friend installs the game without u deactivating ur copy and then ur friend have to pay.

 

[Flek]

haha dealbreaker fuck off MS - hello again sony

 

[legend166]

You sure?

Or, just like current gen, things like multiplayer are shut off until you can connect and update (or, in this case, activate?)

If games require a licence to be activated in order to be played, he's right isn't he?

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Depends on how this stuff works. If it's really "you have to pay a fee for a second deactivation, no matter what", than I say $15 at most. If it's the more likely speculated, "you pay a fee for a second user to have access at the same time", then the sky's the limit.

My assumption is based on scenario one. You pay a fee when you buy a second hand game, that game then stops working on the original owners account. If its concurrent, then, yeah. But I doubt that's the scenario.

 

[Shosai]

Not sure if posted already, Official Xbox Mag EIC says:

Jon Hicks
‏@MrJonty
On second hand games: you buy disc, it installs, you play from HD. Sell disc, it installs to new console and deactivates your install.

Sorry if I missed it, how is this more restrictive than exchanging physical disks? Is it just the installation requirement?

 

[Bunta]

This just about sums up this whole situation right now.

 

[alr1ght]

So how does it deactivate the original install of a game on a hard drive if that Xbox isn't connected to the internet?

Something is afoot...

Probably an internet connection is required.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Speaking with us shortly after Microsoft's Xbox One reveal, Bartel spoke about both the company's resolve to transition gamers from the current generation to the next and the importance of second-hand games. Wired reported earlier that Xbox One will include a mandatory install before games can be played, and that second-time users would need to pay a small, one-time fee. Polygon is currently waiting on comment from Microsoft.

When asked about Xbox One's potential second-hand fee, Bartel said the information came "as a surprise" and declined to comment "on speculation."

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/43...-and-microsoft-see-the-value-in-used-games-on​

GameStop did not know prior. Wow. Can you imagine the phone calls he is making right now?

 

[Kevitivity]

I know that a lot of people here are going to disagree with this fact, but there is no such thing as a "used" app or software.

 

[SRTtoZ]

So how does it deactivate the original install of a game on a hard drive if that Xbox isn't connected to the internet?

Something is afoot...

When the friend connects to install the game the server sees that it's still authorized on another system, doesn't let friend install.

 

[Paches]

Probably an internet connection is required.

I think the only question now is, how far reaching is the internet connection required?

When the friend connects to install the game the server sees that it's still authorized on another system, doesn't let friend install.

So how does it de-activate original owner's copy if he never re-connects his machine? The used game purchaser is simply screwed?

 

[RustyNails]

Amazing how GAF is making MS work their PR. Confirmed! Denied! Denial of denial!

 

[Plinko]

Not sure if posted already, Official Xbox Mag EIC says:

Jon Hicks
‏@MrJonty
On second hand games: you buy disc, it installs, you play from HD. Sell disc, it installs to new console and deactivates your install.

Called it earlier in the thread.

 

[NullPointer]

Not sure if posted already, Official Xbox Mag EIC says:

Jon Hicks
‏@MrJonty
On second hand games: you buy disc, it installs, you play from HD. Sell disc, it installs to new console and deactivates your install.

How could you do this without an always online system? How does the system know to invalidate the original install? And how can it invalidate it if the first system never goes online?

 

[Beth Cyra]

Speaking with us shortly after Microsoft's Xbox One reveal, Bartel spoke about both the company's resolve to transition gamers from the current generation to the next and the importance of second-hand games. Wired reported earlier that Xbox One will include a mandatory install before games can be played, and that second-time users would need to pay a small, one-time fee. Polygon is currently waiting on comment from Microsoft.

When asked about Xbox One's potential second-hand fee, Bartel said the information came "as a surprise" and declined to comment "on speculation."

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/43...-and-microsoft-see-the-value-in-used-games-on​

GameStop did not know prior. Wow. Can you imagine the phone calls he is making right now?

Wow so Gamestop really didn't know? That is fucking ballsy of Micro.

 

[ruttyboy]

I know that a lot of people here are going to disagree with this fact, but there is no such thing as a "used" app or software.

Perhaps not, but there is such a thing as reselling physical property.

 

[rockx4]

Is there an activation key or something in the disc which is read by the console? Does the console check if the game has already been activated before installation?

 

[Tea and Toast]

Won't this just lead to more piracy?

I don't usually buy pre-owned games because new ones are pretty cheap in the U.K at the moment or they will be

within a few weeks of release. Not to generalise but I guess people with less disposable income such as children

are the main consumers of pre-owned games and without them, what will they do? They aren't going to be buying

as many full priced games now are they and I'm sure someone is going to find a way to get around whatever

security they implement? Or am I out of the loop and it's ridiculously hard to do?

 

[Steroyd]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-21-xbox-one-second-hand-games-will-charge-a-fee-to-play
Update 2: Our man on the ground Tom Bramwell was able to speak to corporate vice president of Microsoft Phil Harrison about this hot-button issue and was able to confirm that a second user can install a game from a friend's disc for a fee, though it's unclear how much this will be. Harrison also confirmed that several users sharing a console can access the same game at no additional charge, and Microsoft has "a solution" for the resale market, though it's staying mum on those for now.

Well that's one fear dispelled...

 

[ultron87]

That's assuming there is no additional fee. His tweet does not mean there won't be an activation fee as well.

Being able to pass around your game disc, and be able to play it while still installed as some were theorizing, would have at least made the whole thing more palatable.

It kind of sounds like there are two scenarios here:

Both start with you buying the game and registering it to your console. Then you can either:

A) Sell it to Gamestop, which somehow deactivates your install. Someone else can buy the disc and can install it for free since the license is available. Result: You can't play the game anymore, other guy can.

B) Give it to a friend without deactivating. They put the game in and it says that there isn't an available license for this disc but for X dollars they can generate their own. Result: You can both play the game without the disc. *This seems to be the scenario Phil Harrison was talking about since he compares getting a friends disc and downloading the game directly as just alternate delivery mechanisms of bits of data*

 

[yami4ct]

Sorry if I missed it, how is this more restrictive than exchanging physical disks? Is it just the installation requirement?

You have to be online would be the only new aspect. More restrictive, and shitty because games will stop working eventually, but not terrible. It also seems like there's a completely new aspect of someone giving their game to someone else, that new person pays a fee, and they both have the game. That aspect is a little less restrictive than the current system.

 

[linkboy]

You sure?

Or, just like current gen, things like multiplayer are shut off until you can connect and update (or, in this case, activate?)

The only way that MS could make the install/no disc thing work is if the game checks in with the LIVE servers to see if it's a legit copy (meaning it isn't activated on another console).

There's literally no other way they can make it work. Therefore, for the game to be activated/deactivated, you have to be on-line.

If you purchase a used game and your internet isn't working, or LIVE is down, you're fucked until it starts working again.

 

[sestrugen]

I absolutely can't wait! So many awesome features and the games look great! Price also seems like it is only $400. Take my money already Microsoft! Day f'n one! Excitement level at the max!

You may be in the wrong thread.

 

[Plinko]

How could you do this without an always online system? How does the system know to invalidate the original install? And how can it invalidate it if the first system never goes online?

The Xbox Q&A that was removed clearly said an online connection was required--my guess is every time you boot the system or start a new game it will activate. It just won't be "Always on."

 

[Dead Prince]

How could you do this without an always online system? How does the system know to invalidate the original install? And how can it invalidate it if the first system never goes online?

i'm sure when you put disc in it needs online to check or even install maybe?

 

[Delusibeta]

So, in short, either an internet connection is required on launch or there's a payment required to play on accounts that's not the first that's installed on. Either way, it's deal breaking (although I trust Phil Harrison more than Random Support Guy #3).

 

[Kusagari]

Speaking with us shortly after Microsoft's Xbox One reveal, Bartel spoke about both the company's resolve to transition gamers from the current generation to the next and the importance of second-hand games. Wired reported earlier that Xbox One will include a mandatory install before games can be played, and that second-time users would need to pay a small, one-time fee. Polygon is currently waiting on comment from Microsoft.

When asked about Xbox One's potential second-hand fee, Bartel said the information came "as a surprise" and declined to comment "on speculation."

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/43...-and-microsoft-see-the-value-in-used-games-on​

GameStop did not know prior. Wow. Can you imagine the phone calls he is making right now?

Wow.

Considering how Gamestop acted earlier about the rumors, I wonder if MS basically BS'd them and said it wouldn't happen.

 

[Megatron]

DAY ONE.


Is when I'm buying my PS4.


After two generations of the Xbox being my main console, I will be going to Sony.

 

[NullPointer]

The Xbox Q&A that was removed clearly said an online connection was required--my guess is every time you boot the system or start a new game it will activate. It just won't be "Always on."

So its confirmed you need an online connection to start up the console, apps or games?

If so, now would be a good time to let us know about an offline mode.