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XBOX ONE Reveal: UI faked from the start. Very choppy, and CBoaT
- Thread starter Takuya
- Start date
Do people honestly want a new UI for their cable box? New way to watch TV?
Like...I just don't understand it all.
If I wanna watch TV, it's already 1 button press away (switch tv input).
So what exactly is the deal here? DirecTV's UI is fine...Comcasts UI is fine...Charters UI is fine (only ones I've seen)--all of which are a button press away.
I just don't get all this.
Like...I just don't understand it all.
If I wanna watch TV, it's already 1 button press away (switch tv input).
So what exactly is the deal here? DirecTV's UI is fine...Comcasts UI is fine...Charters UI is fine (only ones I've seen)--all of which are a button press away.
I just don't get all this.
Excellent question. The answer is: Just don't use it. This is optional. The XOne is giving you the ability to do multiple things at once without having to switch feeds. Most of the time it is one click away but then to navigate back, it's multiple clicks. I personally like the fact that I don't have to press ANYTHING.
I probably won't ever use it because you need additional hardware.
I've seen it referenced over and over again in the past several months that Sony managed to lose all the profits they accumulated from the PS1 *and* PS2, with the losses they sustained as a result of the PS3. Not to mention the rest of Sony's financial woes in the past decade or so. There are plenty of companies that can't or wouldn't sustain that kind of business, Marty. It isn't "special" but it isn't exactly business as usual for most companies. More to the point it's a major hurdle and one they had to clear before they could get to the point they're at now.
Of course, but some of things matter in the first place because they aren't happening in a vaccuum by themselves.
IDK. It certainly hasn't been helping their electronics divisions and I've not seen any press trumpeting Blu-ray movie sales boosting their studio divisions profits significantly.
It's a press conference and the primary audience is still the press. They may not be very techically savvy, but they certainly should be familiar with WIP and Betas at this point, since they report on them regularly. Given how much access to public betas there are these days across the technology landscape, I don't think there should be many that are interested in this kind of product who aren't familiar with the concept.MightyHedgehog said:
MightyHedgehog
Member
The planted audience of those cheering all the points they'd like applauded shows that their target audience isn't the gaming press despite their attendance. They want mainstream exposure for what is essentially mainstream features and focus. It's just like the Kinect debut. They know all they have to do is show enough of the right games for the enthusiast gamer crowd, but the rest is to give the new platform widespread appeal. That's all that initial show was really for. Later on, tech sites, gamer sites, and the rest can get hands-on at E3 and beyond. I mean, GAF and the enthusiast gamer crowd isn't nearly enough to support a new platform by itself, so why keep pretending that they are for the first three or four years of a new console's lifespan? Why not just hit both ends of the spectrum at once and from the start to benefit all in the end?
I expect to put "Proof of Concept" at the bottom of the video
like most companies do when they're faking demonstrations.
They're hoping the Kinect integration will make you want it. "Xbox, find NBA game" or something along those lines.
It's nice I guess if you want to be talking to your TV on a regular basis. Otherwise I don't see how using a controller via xbox is any better than using a controller on DirecTV or Cable.
So really, you have to enjoy using Kinect to control your TV for these features to have meaning to you.
Really they're making a huge gamble that people want to use voice and hand gestures to control their TV.
Most of the girls I have gone out with and my parents have no idea how to use a DVR or cable box even though they have them and certainly can't switch TV inputs with any success.
Then again, I really doubt any of them would ever buy an Xbox One or be able to set it up.
family_guy
Member
If the market wants it then cable providers will make it. It's not like no one has implemented voice and gesture controls into a tv interface before. Come to think of it the next Apple TV with Siri integration and possibly a camera included could do this and more people would buy a $99-150 product from Apple than a $400 product from Microsoft.
MightyHedgehog
Member
That's not really true, though. There are plenty of things that the cable/satellite providers don't and would never bother with. That's why it took so long for someone to have an actually decent albeit expensive universal remote in the Harmony line. If someone is looking for a next-gen gaming console with these features, there's only one choice on the horizon.
weekend_warrior
Banned
Yeah I think it'd fine if they packaged this separately, I have no problem with companies taking a chance on new technology, but focusing the entire console around this notion that people will want to change channels with voice commands or use their arms to sweep around a screen is asinine. Let alone that's it worth it to gimp other aspects of the console to make it work. Why not make a standalone device that can hook inline with your Xbone (or PS4, 360, PC, ect) and allow you to do all this screen swapping and voice command stuff with all your devices?
Well, it certainly looks like MS is rushing. But what's the deal that makes Sony seem like they're rushing?
family_guy
Member
What incentive do cable/satellite providers have to work with MS? At best, I see MS will get one provider on board in exchange for exclusivity. I think that might be satellite based because there are less local infrastructure concerns with satellite. So Dish Network or Direct TV. I don't see multiple providers playing ball. In any case enjoy the increased Live subscription fees.
th4tguy
Member
My understanding is that the cable box is still doing all the work (of decoding and receiving tv signal) and the Xbone is just taking that decoded video output and plopping it into it's own UI. Commands issued through the Xbone still need to be sent to the cable box and handled in the same way you have to now. I don't think there is ANY way it could be faster than what I already have as the weak link here is still my cable box. Not unless they put a tv tuner into the Xbone and allow it to be the decoder, which is what I originally thought would be the case. They haven't sold me on this TV thing when it doesn't even replace my cable box
MightyHedgehog
Member
Well, they are seeing a trending drop in subscribers that they would love to stem. By partnering with someone who isn't competing with them directly and, rather, helping to make more palatable their services by unifying their interface with a popular product platform, they gain more exposure and benefit by having more ways to embed their existing services within a customer's lifestyle more seamlessly. Think about when you turn on a console, it's on exclusively until you hit the remote or switch on the television/DVR/cable box. With X1, their services are never preempted by a fully separate device and interface. It's not going to be them doing the hard work, anyway, as MS is the one who is writing and designing the X1 interface. Working with them and providing all that they need access to doesn't represent much if any risk or cost. By passing up any collaboration at all, they risk being left out when others choose to. Seems pretty simple to me. So, what's the Live subscription cost increase you're expecting? Haven't heard anyone say that was actually happening, just speculation on this board.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
POOR PERFORMANCE WITH THE CLOUD!?!?!?!?!
IT .......... ITS NOT POSSIBLE!!!!
IT .......... ITS NOT POSSIBLE!!!!
Marty Chinn
Member
My understanding is that the cable box is still doing all the work (of decoding and receiving tv signal) and the Xbone is just taking that decoded video output and plopping it into it's own UI. Commands issued through the Xbone still need to be sent to the cable box and handled in the same way you have to now. I don't think there is ANY way it could be faster than what I already have as the weak link here is still my cable box. Not unless they put a tv tuner into the Xbone and allow it to be the decoder, which is what I originally thought would be the case. They haven't sold me on this TV thing when it doesn't even replace my cable box
Here's why it will be faster. Let's say you want to see what's on TV, you pull up the guide through the Xbox One. It'll pop up faster, likely be able to navigate faster and so forth. Even better. You want to go to ESPN, but you don't memorize the channel number. Normally with a regular box, you pull up the guide and scroll until you go to ESPN. I typically know around where it is in the channel range, but not the exact channel. Now all I say is, "Watch ESPN" and I avoid all that sluggishness and extra steps. That's how it will be faster. Anything that the Xbox One can do instead of your cable box is likely to be faster, anything it can't that relies on the cable box will be pretty much the same speed as you're used to. The overall experience is faster and not any slower than what you have now.
th4tguy
Member
My biggest confusion with this direction they are taking is for years now, I've been told that we are all moving toward an IP TV based solution. That Cable and Satellite companies will eventually go away as we will be able to pay for the services we want through Internet streaming services instead of subscribing to these huge expensive packages. The 360 was a huge push for IP based tv services. I'm confused as to why they seem to be changing their stance or why any traditional TV service would work with them to support a box that can be used to make their services obsolete. From what I've seen, it could be easier and faster to use Hulu or Netflix on the Xbone than it is to use your standard TV service. Just seems like a step backward in logic for MS to make such a huge "selling point" for your new console be a service that everyone believes is already dying.
th4tguy
Member
Ahhh, I get your point now. You mean in terms of navigating to where you want to go, not actual responsiveness. Just ease of use. That makes sense.
weekend_warrior
Banned
"Here's why it will be faster."
"Because it will probably be faster."
Gee, what insight. While the speed difference in being able to say "watch ESPN" vs using the normal guide might be meaningful, we still don't know if normal tasks like switching channels, or using the DVR will be faster, or if the speed difference will be enough to make it worth hooking your cablebox up through the Xbone.
TheContact
Member
I at least thought the Price if Right and Live TV part was recorded simply because of the timing aspect, but that's really disappointing to hear it's choppy, but it's still early maybe it's something they need to work out. It does seem like they're behind, and it would really suck if they rushed it for the holiday release to match the PS4.
Marty Chinn
Member
Switching channels will not be faster. That's a given. Using your DVR will likely not be faster unless Microsoft can cut a deal for better integration. It's not hard to interpolate what can happen, and what is impossible. The point is, at worse it's the same as you're used to and in many cases it will be faster when you're taking advantage of the integration of the Xbox One. The overall experience will be a net gain.
Actually, isnt it almost guaranteed to be faster (for the switching game to live TV scenario) for everyone who uses HDMI?
Switching HDMI inputs requires a 2-3 second cryptographic key exchange - it's simply not possible to switch quickly between your cable box (or DVR) and Xbox using a TV remote instantly, because of the HDMI spec. At least for any consumer TV I've seen - switching HDMI inputs is terribly slow compared to switching analog.
By allowing the cable HDMI input to pass through the Xbox, you can switch from a game to TV instantly because the Xbox can keep the cable HDMI input connection open and switch in software - something your consumer TV tuner probably does not do.
Switching HDMI inputs requires a 2-3 second cryptographic key exchange - it's simply not possible to switch quickly between your cable box (or DVR) and Xbox using a TV remote instantly, because of the HDMI spec. At least for any consumer TV I've seen - switching HDMI inputs is terribly slow compared to switching analog.
By allowing the cable HDMI input to pass through the Xbox, you can switch from a game to TV instantly because the Xbox can keep the cable HDMI input connection open and switch in software - something your consumer TV tuner probably does not do.
Who gives a shit if I'm in the minority.
I'm well aware of the showmanship and the intent of it. That doesn't change the fact that the press that will cover this kind of thing, gaming or otherwise (but tech-oriented in general), and the audience that will express the remotest interest in buying another ~$400 box for their living room in the next 2-3 yrs, is the kind of audience that mostly understand a simple, genuine "target render" disclaimer.
Marty Chinn
Member
Having read many tech articles from mainstream press compared to tech specialty press, I don't think they do understand or would likely harp on it. It servers no purpose for them to show it in pre-alpha or disclose that it's a target render if they feel they can achieve it.
Marty Chinn
Member
When you get a bunch of people harping on Sony for not showing a box which really doesn't mean anything as seen by the Xbox One announcement, it's not hard to understand why they wouldn't do that.
Marty Chinn
Member
Come on, Sony got a lot of flack for it on the day of announcement. It was a dumb complaint at the time. People moved on but it was certainly something that people complained about. Hearing people complain they had a system unveiling but didn't show the system was everywhere.
DataStream
Member
I think its actually pretty rare for software companies to highlight faked portions of demos even though almost every presser you see has some feature demonstrated using simulated workflows. Not every part of the demonstration mind you, but using faked assets, forcing a state transition, showing precomputed output, etc.
How does that change what I said? You're attempting to refute my point that most people could handle transparency regarding the true state of this product, by holding up a contingent of people whose opinion was just a flash in the pan, a vocal minority, by your own acknowledgment here.
So all this apparent cynicism about what the average person can properly comprehend is still just a strawman argument. And so far that kind of cynicism seems to be backfiring for MS.
Marty Chinn
Member
Because that crap got printed in the press. While enthusiasts moved on because they keep up to date, the common person just remembers the negative stigma. Why purposely go for bad press when you know you can avoid it? MS screwed up anyway, but the decision to not explain it as being simulated makes sense given what happened previously. Hell people already are flipping out about all sorts of things that they shouldn't be so it's clear that people have trouble understanding simple things.
family_guy
Member
The drop in subscribers is because people are having most of their needs met by Hulu and Netflix. Live content doesn't mean much to alot of people unless its sports or news, but even that's something you can access online as long as your internet is working. Consumers are also tired of paying for a bunch of channels they never watch. Xboxone's interface doesn't seem like it will help much to address these problems.
The Live fee doesn't seem like it can stay the same with the extra servers they are adding.
As ever, I am constantly amazed by the "common person" and their ability to be just precisely as ignorant as one's argument needs them to be. Can't understand the concept of under construction but can apparently selectively choose to remember one fact about a product under construction to the exclusion of everything else that was reported and has been reported since.
"obviously this is an early build"
sure, it'll probably get better.
For people who don't care that they faked the reveal video, can I remind you of the original kinect reveal? That was miles different from what the final product wound up being, so don't expect the dashboard interface to be as snappy as it was in the reveal.
sure, it'll probably get better.
For people who don't care that they faked the reveal video, can I remind you of the original kinect reveal? That was miles different from what the final product wound up being, so don't expect the dashboard interface to be as snappy as it was in the reveal.