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[Alex_Mexico]

Not the 1st time, remember when Twilight Princess GCN launched after Wii version and with no wide-screen?

The arbitrary last second two week delay for TP on GameCube was really scummy but the widescreen feature I thought it had more to do with the GC not being able to run the game properly if displaying in 16:9 and thus left it as 4:3 only.

I could be wrong tho

 

[Movalpolos]

But. Dude. You can't look at both screens at once. What difference does it make if the map or menu is in your lap versus on the tv?

It eliminates the necessity to load between the gameplay state and the menu state. In a game like Zelda it offers a better, more streamlined option. Especially considering we will deal with more items with cooking and more weapons with durability, the gamepad could facilitate that task with less fumbling around in an on-screen menu. This is truly the best thing the gamepad is for.

They are taking such an obvious function for the gamepad and scrapping it for the sake of parity. This is in direct disservice to the Wii U version in order to sell the Switch. That is all. They have nothing else to sell it with.

If the Wii U version had a different featureset, it would have been a harder decision for me to choose between the two versions. As it stands now I can just get the switch version knowing it's the better of the two. It's a bit shitty of them in a way but it's completely understandable from a business perspective.

And thank you for embracing that. Seriously. This is what I'm looking for. Call a spade a spade.
This decision is completely in service of the Switch.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

"We think the gamepad disrupts gameplay"

Okay, so give me the option to enable or disable it

"No, we are cutting the feature"

Wait, isnt it already programmed? Why not leave it in and let us decide

"No we know whats best for you"

but, whats wrong with options?

"No"

but-

"No"

This.
It's extremely obvious that they want the Switch version to be the more attractive one, can't have the old console have a feature that might make people reconsider on splurging 370- 400 (+ potentially another 70 for a pro controller they might already have for the WiiU) bucks for the game. Not when it's the only big title in their launch lineup. They don't want a repeat of the TP GC/Wii situation were many people considered the GC version to be the superior one, even if the Switch would still have better visuals as compensation.

If anything I am surprised that they didn't delay the WiiU version to launch after the Switch version, but I guess that would be too much salt on the injury considering how often and how long they delayed this originally WiiU only game.

 

[Movalpolos]

Given the fact that Link has a tablet in-game, I do find it odd that Nintendo's choosing to de-emphasize use of the GamePad screen for the Wii U.

I didn't even consider that. I totally forgot that Link actually uses a tablet in-game. Pretty ridiculous that they cut the feature yet its footprint remains in the game.

 

[shiyrley]

The arbitrary last second two week delay for TP on GameCube was really scummy but the widescreen feature I thought it had more to do with the GC not being able to run the game properly if displaying in 16:9 and thus left it as 4:3 only.

I could be wrong tho

There is a cheat code to make the GC version run at real 16:9 just like the Wii and it works fine. Fun fact: there's one for Wind Waker too, works fine too.

 

[The Lamonster]

I'm with the OP.

This is dumb, and clearly just trying to push people toward the Switch version.

Nintendo kept saying that the Zelda remasters on Wii U helped them familiarize themselves with using the tablet touchscreen controls for the map and inventory, so they can prepare for the new Wii U Zelda. It makes zero sense to remove that functionality and I don't buy the "gotta keep eyes on the TV" crap they're pushing.

 

[CanUKlehead]

Until they straight up cancel the Wii U version, I'm buying that, even if the only thing on the gamepad is a giant Switch symbol.

 

[Caelus]

It is kind of odd considering Link's main item is a tablet, it'd be even funnier if the name of the game were TLoZ: Shiekah Slate.

Still, Link can take the Slate anywhere, it doesn't have to be within range of anything. So they can just say that's a representation of the Switch console...

 

[Gestault]

Starting from the Wii U launch, I realized how bad the indicators to direct your attention between the two screens could be. It's been long enough that I've forgotten, but some games legitimately gave conflicting indicators for which was the "main" screen at a given moment. I'm 100% ok with this decision for Zelda. Nothing is missing for me when the interface is designed exactly like basically every other entertainment device ever. Having directions/interface out of eye-line is silly unless that's the gameplay purpose for it like Zombi U.

 

[spookyfish]

There is a cheat code to make the GC version run at real 16:9 just like the Wii and it works fine. Fun fact: there's one for Wind Waker too, works fine too.

Ummmm .. what is the cheat code??

 

[Gestault]

Ummmm .. what is the cheat code??

It's an Action Replay code you enter before starting it up (I've only seen it done via emulation, so I don't know how it would work on original hardware). I was surprised to learn how this worked recently. There are wikis with directories of the optimizing AR codes for each game.

 

[etking]

If there was a map or inventory on the Wii-U gamepad, I would not use it. I always use the Pro controller and hate the oversized, heavy and inconvenient gamepad which is always out of battery. Especially in games like Xenoblade X, where you have to use it sometimes, changing back and forth between gamepads really broke the immersion and reduced the fun.

 

[1morerobot]

Jeez they are just straight up murdering the Wii U. It's already dead guys.

To be honest, Aonuma should just shut the hell up about this.

Because it's fucking annoying to listen to that crap, after being force-fed lame and half-assed gamepad features (I guess) for the last 4 years.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Probably, but the decision was probably made a while ago so it'd be hard to tell what the differences are. Here's what I posted back during E3:

I don't have the sources handy but as I understand it he's given two reasons:

1) In an interview with Kotaku (via Zelda Informer) he mentioned: "But after developing the game and playing the game we realized that having a smaller version of the map on screen is actually better so you know where you are at all times. So we decided to take it that route. Obviously if we find that there’s a great feature we could add to the GamePad, there is a possibility that we could do that.”

2) In an interview with WIRED he said:
"We realized that having something on the GamePad and looking back and forth between the TV screen and the GamePad actually disrupts the gameplay, and the concentration that the game player may be experiencing. You have your car’s GPS system on your dash. If you had it down in your lap, you’re going to get into an accident!"

Both essentially say the same thing: that a detailed, more intimate GamePad map that you might want to stop and look at every now and then isn't as good as an on-screen minimap in real-time gameplay. So you'll probably only be able to bring up a bigger map and have it obscure the screen.

That's fair enough, to be honest, but I wish the mini-map wasn't so detailed in the first place, or can be hidden. Zelda's always been great at offering minimaps which don't give away too much information to the extent that you play the game on autopilot, instead asking you to really observe and explore your surroundings.

Metal Gear Solid V showed that it's possible to make an open world game that doesn't give the player a dependence on the minimap, so it can be done.

Compare and contrast the above statements with what Aonuma said after The Game Awards in late 2014:

"Recently, I've taken to relying on the map on my smart phone when I'm out walking in a place I'm not familiar with. A map isn't something you keep tucked away in your bag, it's by holding it in your hand and being able to constantly check it as you move forward step by step that gives you that sense of adventure."

That's the kind of map I'd like, really. It's more immersive to check it momentarily (much like how you'd pause a game to do so) and then explore, than rely on a minimap like a GPS.

I find minimaps in open world games distracting and they deter me from concentrating on the game world. I would have preferred just having beacons that you can place instead.

Zelda's often done maps really well, though, they give you enough information to let you know what your direction is and entry/exit points to a room, but not as much information to the extent that you could rely solely on the map for navigation. Which is great. So hopefully Breath of the Wild isn't like that, but Aonuma's comments feel contrary to that.

 

[shiyrley]

Ummmm .. what is the cheat code??

https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index...._Twilight_Princess_(GC)#16:9_Aspect_Ratio_Fix
https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index....f_Zelda:_The_Wind_Waker#16:9_Aspect_Ratio_Fix

Yes, these codes work in real hardware. Of course you need a modded GC, Wii or Wii U.

I myself tested the TP code on a Wii U and the Wind Waker on the Wii before the WWHD vas even a thing. Though I remember having to convert the code to a different format to make it work on the Wii or something like that, can't remember how I pulled it off exactly, but yeah, it works completely fine. If it works on Wii's GC mode then it works exactly the same on GC (just like a DS game works exactly the same on 3DS, if it runs at 27 FPS on DS it works at 27 FPS on 3DS)

 

[Hermii]

The only reason it doesnt have those features is to not make the Switch version look inferior in some ways. I mean link even has a Sheikah Slate that looks a lot like a Wii U gamepad. Would he have that if gamepad utilisation wasn't a planned feature? Nope.

 

[Future]

This is fundamentally why the Wii U idea sucks. Looking down constantly is never really that good. Not worth the concessions made for that system. I know I haven't fiddled with an inventory screen down there and wished I could get that experience in other games. It's a novelty, but not one that demands anyone copying that idea

This isn't Nintendo ignoring Wii U users, it's them accepting that their design was flawed. It's also probably indicating the difficulty in supporting something like that on game pad when they have an alternative sku that doesnt (like most 3rd party developers),another reason why Wii U was just too different for its own good

 

[akidnamededdy]

Can't really fault a business for making a sound business decision. Honestly, to be blunt you should just be glad that 1) the Wii U version is even still a thing and 2) that it's launching on the same day as the Switch version.

 

[HCgamer]

Can they add it back in with a update later on?

 

[Toadthemushroom]

This is fundamentally why the Wii U idea sucks. Looking down constantly is never really that good. Not worth the concessions made for that system. I know I haven't fiddled with an inventory screen down there and wished I could get that experience in other games. It's a novelty, but not one that demands anyone copying that idea

This isn't Nintendo ignoring Wii U users, it's them accepting that their design was flawed. It's also probably indicating the difficulty in supporting something like that on game pad when they have an alternative sku that doesnt (like most 3rd party developers),another reason why Wii U was just too different for its own good

The point was never to look down constantly, though. It's to use the map when you need it, not rely on it. Metal Gear Solid 5 doesn't have an on-screen map, for instance, like in Zelda you set beacons from the map that you bring up.

 

[Rolf NB]

As soon as you support off-tv play, the game needs to work on a single screen. That's the lead setup, it needs to work. It also happens to be the setup for Switch (or any other system, if we include multiplatform games into consideration). So of course they're building for one screen first.

Supporting optional two-screen stuff is kind of redundant because not many design choices (pausing vs not pausing in menu etc) can be changed safely.

Also this:

Dual screen gameplay works better on the DS and 3DS due to the proximity on the second screen, with the Wii U it felt more cumbersome, even with the small conveniences like a map screen.

Yes! The two DS / 3DS screens are on the same focal plane. People always forget that in the Wii U parallels.

 

[mishakoz]

Can't really fault a business for making a sound business decision.

Yes you can. That's how we protect ourselves as consumers. It may be a business decision but like the Switch having only 32gb and no bundle in game, they are decisions that aren't in the best interest of the consumer and they should be called out on it.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Yes you can. That's how we protect ourselves as consumers. It may be a business decision but like the Switch having only 32gb and no bundle in game, they are decisions that aren't in the best interest of the consumer and they should be called out on it.

It's a tablet and the physical games don't require huge data installs, as far as we know. Sony and Microsoft didn't launch their latest systems with bundled games, and micro SD cards are stupid cheap. Would it be smarter for them to bundle a game in at that price to show off their new concept? Yes probably. I'd hardly call any of this "anti-consumer," though.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Honestly, I did enjoy the inventory in WW on the gamepad, but I like how traditional menus pause the action more.

A good in-game menu is more important and functionally better than one on a separate screen IMO.

To be honest, Aonuma should just shut the hell up about this.

Because it's fucking annoying to listen to that crap, after being force-fed lame and half-assed gamepad features (I guess) for the last 4 years.

Yeah, cuz admitting you were wrong and made a mistake is a bad thing. I'd rather hear it now then never. You can never win.

 

[CrazyHorse]

He is right.

 

[Mupod]

This is fundamentally why the Wii U idea sucks. Looking down constantly is never really that good. Not worth the concessions made for that system. I know I haven't fiddled with an inventory screen down there and wished I could get that experience in other games. It's a novelty, but not one that demands anyone copying that idea

This isn't Nintendo ignoring Wii U users, it's them accepting that their design was flawed. It's also probably indicating the difficulty in supporting something like that on game pad when they have an alternative sku that doesnt (like most 3rd party developers),another reason why Wii U was just too different for its own good

It works for some games. Monster Hunter for example, I don't like having the map down there because i need to look at it constantly. But having some extra controls for communication and inventory was a huge help. It also let you choose what you wanted and where. Tokyo Mirage Sessions used it well with the texting feature, since it doesn't disrupt gameplay.

I just have a problem with the games that are like OK LOOK UP NO LOOK AT THE GAMEPAD NOW UP HERE DUMBASS.

 

[Gestault]

To be honest, Aonuma should just shut the hell up about this.

Because it's fucking annoying to listen to that crap, after being force-fed lame and half-assed gamepad features (I guess) for the last 4 years.

Why in Goodness' name would you want them to not make a better designed experience? On principle?

It works for some games. Monster Hunter for example, I don't like having the map down there because i need to look at it constantly. But having some extra controls for communication and inventory was a huge help. It also let you choose what you wanted and where. Tokyo Mirage Sessions used it well with the texting feature, since it doesn't disrupt gameplay.

I just have a problem with the games that are like OK LOOK UP NO LOOK AT THE GAMEPAD NOW UP HERE DUMBASS.

Exactly.

 

[Apathy]

I thought the inventory management was a genius thing to add to Zelda games with having two screens. It takes away from the action about as much has having to pause to go into an inventory screen, fiddle around with it, then unpause

 

[Berordn]

I just have a problem with the games that are like OK LOOK UP NO LOOK AT THE GAMEPAD NOW UP HERE DUMBASS.

Pikmin 3 doing this was always baffling to me because it STILL showed up on the TV screen.

 

[Hermii]

As soon as you support off-tv play, the game needs to work on a single screen. That's the lead setup, it needs to work. It also happens to be the setup for Switch (or any other system, if we include multiplatform games into consideration). So of course they're building for one screen first.

Supporting optional two-screen stuff is kind of redundant because not many design choices (pausing vs not pausing in menu etc) can be changed safely.

Also this:
Yes! The two DS / 3DS screens are on the same focal plane. People always forget that in the Wii U parallels.

Did you ever play WWHD?

 

[PtM]

Until they straight up cancel the Wii U version, I'm buying that, even if the only thing on the gamepad is a giant Switch symbol.

Haha, I just imagined.
Same.

Probably, but the decision was probably made a while ago so it'd be hard to tell what the differences are. Here's what I posted back during E3:



I find minimaps in open world games distracting and they deter me from concentrating on the game world. I would have preferred just having beacons that you can place instead.

Zelda's often done maps really well, though, they give you enough information to let you know what your direction is and entry/exit points to a room, but not as much information to the extent that you could rely solely on the map for navigation. Which is great. So hopefully Breath of the Wild isn't like that, but Aonuma's comments feel contrary to that.

Good points well made. I hear there are options for the mini map.

Can they add it back in with a update later on?

In theory. Also depends on how finished the maps were at the switch.

 

[Teletraan1]

I actually liked the gamepad for games like this. Maybe they can launch a paid smartphone app that has the map unless that is too distracting as well.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Quite ironic that leading up to the WiiU, Nintendo spent so much time and effort convincing everyone of all the benefits of two-screen gaming, only for now to do the complete opposite. Sheesh. It's like the Molyneux cycle.

 

[maxcriden]

Yup, i was just posting it to give a visual sample of what you were saying.

Oh, gotcha! Thanks for the clarification. I also need to clarify my post, I'll go back and edit it - it was actually 2014 and not 2015 footage.

 

[shiyrley]

Can they add it back in with a update later on?

If they ever update the Wii U version it will be for fixing bugs, don't expect much else. Maybe future amiibo support.

 

[maxcriden]

Probably, but the decision was probably made a while ago so it'd be hard to tell what the differences are. Here's what I posted back during E3:

I find minimaps in open world games distracting and they deter me from concentrating on the game world. I would have preferred just having beacons that you can place instead.

Zelda's often done maps really well, though, they give you enough information to let you know what your direction is and entry/exit points to a room, but not as much information to the extent that you could rely solely on the map for navigation. Which is great. So hopefully Breath of the Wild isn't like that, but Aonuma's comments feel contrary to that.

Thank you for posting this! Has it been confirmed you won't be able to hide the mini-map when playing?

I thought the inventory management was a genius thing to add to Zelda games with having two screens. It takes away from the action about as much has having to pause to go into an inventory screen, fiddle around with it, then unpause

Agreed! In a way it's just as much of a bummer losing that functionality as it is losing the GamePad map.

 

[Movalpolos]

If there was a map or inventory on the Wii-U gamepad, I would not use it. I always use the Pro controller and hate the oversized, heavy and inconvenient gamepad which is always out of battery. Especially in games like Xenoblade X, where you have to use it sometimes, changing back and forth between gamepads really broke the immersion and reduced the fun.

Optional. Like the remasters.

 

[Movalpolos]

This is fundamentally why the Wii U idea sucks. Looking down constantly is never really that good. Not worth the concessions made for that system. I know I haven't fiddled with an inventory screen down there and wished I could get that experience in other games. It's a novelty, but not one that demands anyone copying that idea

This isn't Nintendo ignoring Wii U users, it's them accepting that their design was flawed. It's also probably indicating the difficulty in supporting something like that on game pad when they have an alternative sku that doesnt (like most 3rd party developers),another reason why Wii U was just too different for its own good

It is them taking away incentive for the Wii U version over the Switch version. As I have said it's in direct service of selling the Switch, that without Zelda, would have nothing worth buying a system at launch for.
That is how important it was to make the Switch version more attractive.

 

[maxcriden]

It is them taking away incentive for the Wii U version over the Switch version. As I have said it's in direct service of selling the Switch, that without Zelda, would have nothing worth buying a system at launch for.
That is how important it was to make the Switch version more attractive.

I agree with you. I don't think this is wrong of them, but I do think the biggest part of Switch's day one impact is Zelda (well, tied with portability) and it's unfortunate they had to make things this way, but, as a business decision I do think it was probably best.... :/

 

[MegaManTrigger]

It is them taking away incentive for the Wii U version over the Switch version. As I have said it's in direct service of selling the Switch, that without Zelda, would have nothing worth buying a system at launch for.
That is how important it was to make the Switch version more attractive.

Taking away incentive? Do you think the people Nintendo are trying to target have Wii Us? Aside from the hardcore Nintendo fans, it's very unlikely that the casual fanbase have Wii Us (never mind that the system has become harder to find for people who want to buy it now and not spend on the Switch). So what exactly are the incentives are they taking away?

Also, people greatly overestimate how taking a second-screen map away = taking an incentive away. I'm used to it on the 3DS yes, but I also game on the Vita which doesn't have a second screen. People are going to adapt to changes.

 

[maxcriden]

Taking away incentive? Do you think the people Nintendo are trying to target have Wii Us? Aside from the hardcore Nintendo fans, it's very unlikely that the casual fanbase have Wii Us (never mind that the system has become harder to find for people who want to buy it now and not spend on the Switch). So what exactly are the incentives are they taking away?

Also, people greatly overestimate how taking a second-screen map away = taking an incentive away. I'm used to it on the 3DS yes, but I also game on the Vita which doesn't have a second screen. People are going to adapt to changes.

FWIW, I absolutely think Nintendo is trying to target the Wii U audience. I doubt they expect BOTW to be a big hit amongst casuals when the only entry in recent years that have done so have had touch or motion controls. I think Zelda will do very well, but, I definitely think Wii U owners are likely to be big Nintendo and by extension Zelda fans, and I think Nintendo wants to make it clear to this group that for the best version of the game they will need to get it on Switch. That's also part of why the special editions are only offered for Switch.

I agree with you the second screen map is adaptable to do without, same goes for that combined with the high likelihood of touch inventory being a thing if Zelda was Wii U only; it's the combination of both that does sting a bit, though.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Sad that it's gone. A map on the gamepad would be perfect for an open world game like BOTW. I'm constantly bring up the map in Skyrim.

 

[Kthulhu]

The entire concept of a second screen for gameplay has been a complete bust since the DS came out. It adds nothing.,

I more or less agree. At least with the DS they were right next to each other.

The Wii U's tablet was a mistake. I'm glad we're past it.

 

[Movalpolos]

Taking away incentive? Do you think the people Nintendo are trying to target have Wii Us? Aside from the hardcore Nintendo fans, it's very unlikely that the casual fanbase have Wii Us (never mind that the system has become harder to find for people who want to buy it now and not spend on the Switch). So what exactly are the incentives are they taking away?

Also, people greatly overestimate how taking a second-screen map away = taking an incentive away. I'm used to it on the 3DS yes, but I also game on the Vita which doesn't have a second screen. People are going to adapt to changes.

You think they are not targetting the Wii U audience as well?
Why wouldn't they?

 

[amdb00mer]

This comes across as a slightly dramatic reaction.

Eiji Aonuma has said in the past he doesn't like the Wii U gamepad, and that the "Dual View disrupts gameplay."

.

Pretty much why I try to only play Wii U games that support the Wii U Pro controller. The Wii U gamepad being used as a remote play device is good, but when playing on a big screen and the Wii U gamepad forces you to view info on the gamepad it is dispruptive.

 

[PtM]

So the story is now they remade the controls for Switch and liked them better than before.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...rge-extra-burden-of-moving-to-nintendo-switch

 

[Movalpolos]

So the story is now they remade the controls for Switch and liked them better than before.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...rge-extra-burden-of-moving-to-nintendo-switch

Doesn't excuse removing features from the Wii U version.

 

[LotusHD]

Doesn't excuse removing features from the Wii U version.

Lol