• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

What are the worst plot holes you've found in a game's story?

C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
DevilFox said:
I'm not giving credit to anyone, I'm interpreting, I also mentioned Alighieri before as example. All who studied his epic poem (Divine Comedy) know that literary critic suggest articulated meanings behind the most (apparently) trivial sentences if not even single words. The student sooner or later will ask himself: "did the writer really mean all this stuff?" Who knows, too late to ask.
The next question should be: "is it really important?". Not that much in my opinion. To create something, even unintentionally, that's open to interpretation is still a great value and should be appreciated. See a famous game like MGS2, it's a mess at first glance but lot of its value comes from interpretation and reflecting, right? Basic example from the same game: how the hell did Fortune deflected the missiles without the device? Search your answer on the web, you'll find plenty, the one I like more is that it's a metaphor of a person that really believed in herself (her powers in this case) and succeded. Maybe the real answer is "she had another device hidden in her tits" but that would kill the charm of all that.
What's sure is that if you look at these kind of works superficially, you're never going to ask yourself the first question, and so the second one, and that's a shame because it might be worth sometimes.
Click to expand...
Except that he didn't create something unintentionally, he blatantly went against the rules of his own game and cut content that would've provided more narrative. He didn't create a character that's so open to interpretation that he's so smart that he'll end up breaking the rules of the game. There's a difference between something that's actually up to interpretation like the ending of MGS2 and something that comes from an untalented writer who misleads his audience on purpose for shock value in an attempt to be clever. Whether or not you question the intention is the issue when the intention is clearly laid out by the work of the writer. You can't say "Well you're wrong writer, I think you meant this."
 
M

MrBadger

Member
Not75Drops said:
I haven't played Layton vs Wright yet but the second Layton game (Diabolical/Pandora's Box) has a pretty obvious obvious where

you find out the whole town is actually extremely run-down and nearly deserted. The reason that it looked so extravagant is because everyone was basically high due to a gas leak. The real problem is how everyone acted the same to gas (no one is seriously harmed especially the guy that's been living in the town for years, despite being constantly exposed to it) and how they all somehow had the exact same hallucinations.
.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call this a plot hole, I'd just say it takes a bit of suspension of belief.
I mean, if we just go with the game's logic that everyone's on the same high and the gas is harmless, it doesn't contradict anything else that happens in the game.
 
D

DevilFox

Member
Crossing Eden said:
Except that he didn't create something unintentionally, he blatantly went against the rules of his own game and cut content that would've provided more narrative. He didn't create a character that's so open to interpretation that he's so smart that he'll end up breaking the rules of the game. There's a difference between something that's actually up to interpretation like the ending of MGS2 and something that comes from an untalented writer who misleads his audience on purpose for shock value in an attempt to be clever.
Click to expand...

Yeah, ok. Cage is a fucking retarded and he was totally drunk during HR writing. He's the emblem of failure, the Uwe Boll of the videogame. I guess that's what you want to hear :|
There's nothing I can add anyway.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
DevilFox said:
Yeah, ok. Cage is a fucking retarded and he was totally drunk during HR writing. He's the emblem of failure, the Uwe Boll of the videogame. I guess that's what you want to hear :|
There's nothing I can add anyway.
Click to expand...
Read the final edit.
 
P

Pizza

Member
I remember halo 2 coming out and Johnson is suddenly very alive and just tells you it's classified.


Sure its explained later but seriously?
 
Caayn

Caayn

Member
Pizza said:
I remember halo 2 coming out and Johnson is suddenly very alive and just tells you it's classified.


Sure its explained later but seriously?
Click to expand...
It's explained in the book Halo: First Strike which was released a year before Halo 2 was. Halo 2 takes place a month after Halo CE.
 
N

Not75Drops

Member
MrBadger said:
I wouldn't call this a plot hole, I'd just say it takes a bit of suspension of belief.
I mean, if we just go with the game's logic that everyone's on the same high and the gas is harmless, it doesn't contradict anything else that happens in the game.
Click to expand...

I mean I was fine with most of the other twists in the series (the Spectre one was pretty dumb though with the
manatee thing
) since there's fantasy/sci-fi elements, so it's not too hard to imagine that some of the more "out there" situations could be plausible. This just felt like a leap in logic and a bit of a cop-out
Were the the residents besides the villain (Anton?) even real? The sword fight is also weird because he says that he needs to catch his breath and becomes exhausted which would make sense since he's actually an old man. Though moments before that, you see him doing all these fast-paced, acrobatic movements and sword techniques so it doesn't really add up. Oh well, at least the actual fight was pretty cool.
It might have made more sense if they had decided to explain it better like in other Layton games.
 
A

Asbear

Banned
Pizza said:
I remember halo 2 coming out and Johnson is suddenly very alive and just tells you it's classified.


Sure its explained later but seriously?
Click to expand...

He dies like 100 times in Halo 1 because he wasn't a real character but just a generic NPC in that game. It's not a plot hole as he wasn't a character until Halo 2 began.
 
N30RYU

N30RYU

Gold Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Heavy Rain.

The entire game lets you see the thoughts of the characters. Then you find out the murderer is one of the characters, whose thoughts you have seen, and was not suffering from any kind of dissociative identity disorder, and the thoughts about him killing people just never came up. It was a really cheap and stupid way to create a mystery that doesn't even make sense in the game's own cheap and stupid logic.
Click to expand...
Came to post this
All the game the killer is collecting the evidences he left behind and never though about the murders or how to dispose them
 
kingwingin

kingwingin

Member
GatticusFinch said:
Oh, yeah, I must not have played the game, thanks for pointing that out.

I mean, your first spolier tag is straight retarded. How does that many any fucking sense?
Another Booker is born? How is that possible? The entire point was to kill all of them so that there was never any chance in any universe that Comstock exists. There are now infinite universes where "another Booker" is born, meaning there are infinite universes for Comstock to exists. It's totally circular. It's just deus ex machina. They may as well have said "lol elizabeth is magic."
Click to expand...
another booker isn't born in the sense that you think it is. The game explained constants and variables quite well thought the game and booker getting baptised is a constant. No matter what, at that point 2 universes are created from one. Yes there are infinite universes but our story one cares about this particular seperation.

So when you are brought back to the place to become baptised, booker has a choice to either become the booker we know and played as or become comstock and kill himself.

So now one universe has comstock/booker dead in the water and another universe where booker walks away from the pond to have do what he did before except now comstock can't come to take elizabeth later on.

The baptism was the point where comstock started to exsist. There would be universes where booker is baptized but doesn't become comstock but in all universes where comstock exsists he is baptized so that's how far back you need to go to correct that mistake. Also correcting infinite other universes that spawned from the baptizm to comstock dieing.

If non of that makes sense then check this chart out http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/DeadSync360/media-full//InfiniteTimeline_zps50892a5d.jpg.html
 
P

Pizza

Member
Asbear said:
He dies like 100 times in Halo 1 because he wasn't a real character but just a generic NPC in that game. It's not a plot hole as he wasn't a character until Halo 2 began.
Click to expand...


Actually! If he died before the scene where he was supposed to die (marine helmet footage) he came back as a white dude, I was meaning the footage scene where it's implied that he was *dead* dead, and he didn't come back in the campaign
 
T

timetokill

Banned
SmithnCo said:
-Guy running along a rooftop chased by a bunch of officers
-Falls to the ground below, has to limp slowly across the street
-None of them follow him, no police stationed there
-Taxi is conveniently the only car in the road
-He drives off, presumably the police decide not to follow

Good stuff
Click to expand...

I sat there dumbfounded and just started laughing hysterically during that scene, so hilarious
 
S

sn00zer

Member
The city layout in Arkham City makes no fucking sense from a civil engineering perspective. Like, literally none. There is nothing correct about. Fun game though I love to pieces, but after listening to "earthquake destroyed it but thats okay because its a prison", engineers freak out when building displacements are around an inch and in City there are whole sections submerged or destroyed. Then you go under the city and all the building foundations are wood beams just standing in nothing. And dont even get me started on having a metal foundry within walking distance of public housing.
 
S

Starwolf_UK

Member
One that people like to say about Fire Emblem games is why don't high level bosses just come along and wipe you out early game...the snarky response was that well those bosses also take time to level up.

TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared said:
Sonic 06 and the time travel bullshit.
Click to expand...
I forgive this one because
the ending just makes it never happen...talk about written out of the franchise

Ishida said:
Phoenix Downs revive K.O.'d characters, not dead ones.
Click to expand...
Sometimes KO was translated as dead though. The fact going to bed for a night cures it suggests it is indeed being knocked out. I suppose a Phoenix Down is like a really strong smelling salt. Now if this were Dragon Quest...just take their body to a priest and pay up.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yoday said:
AC3. How does Haytham know who Connor is, and that he is his son.
Click to expand...
Haytham didn't know that Connor was his son at first or that he even had a son. He only realized that Connor was his son after seeing him in prison with Hickey, which was the first time the two met up close.
 
C

Canucked

Member
N30RYU said:
This isn't a plot hole.
Phoenix down can't revive the death... Just reanimate KO characters... Just like when tou leave a fight with a player KO and then have 1HP left.
Click to expand...

Yes, but then the "death" and "raise" spells don't make sense. Also, in a way, "sleep."

The implication of "Phoenix" down is also rebirth after death.
 
N

Nvzman

Member
Dr. Black Jack said:
I know, it's just that when a game gets hyped as the second coming of Jesus this kind of bullshit design sticks out like a sore thumb. It reminds me of the old David Wong article ripping on 90s FPS devs for putting pallets everywhere to make areas look more lived-in but forgetting to add in the pallet jacks that actually move them, or any kind of logical organization of the pallets, etc. It's like the level designers have great theories about how the real world works but have zero life experience outside of their computer screen so they just wing it.

The other two things that caused me to quit the game were
an NPC model used two times right next to each other, identical down to their idle animations
and
Ellie cursing like a sailor when she meets Joel. I've been around and have been a surly teenager before, but come on, no teenage girl would talk to an grizzled older man like that instantly. Her entire character just feels like a giant Mary Sue for the writer's teenage self.
. Again, super nitpicky but a game held as high up as TLOU deserves that kind of scrutiny.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm sorry but this isn't just nitpicking, this is stupid nitpicking. Why even play video games with this logic? Also as someone who's around the same age as Ellie (two years older but still) her cursing is perfectly in line with her age. Teenagers curse around anyone, and I'd imagine especially in a post-apocalyptic ignore-all-manners setting.
 
T

ThoseDeafMutes

Member
Rapstah said:
So does all of the Geth invasion fleet that attacks the Citadel use the Conduit to get there? Why do Saren (and X Geth soldiers you fight in the final chapter of the game) and Shepard come out in the Presidium, where the mini-Mass Effect relay is, and everyone else pop up in space outside the Citadel then?
Click to expand...

(ME1)

No, the

Geth ground troops got aboard the Citadel through the Conduit, along with Saren. The fleet exists to allow Sovereign to physically attach himself to the Citadel. The Geth fleet / Sovereign could have attacked whenever, but they needed the commando team on the Citadel to do their part. Hence why Saren just walking unopposed into the control room on account of being a spectre would be so trivial. He could even bring a squad of mercenaries with him for protection if he wanted but there is no real reason that anybody woudl stop him from logging into a terminal that he would have access to as a spectre.
 
S

Spieler Eins

Member
News Bot said:
This is not what happens. Watch the opening scenes to both games. There is a sudden scene cut to somewhere else. Both teams move an unknown distance away from the crash site. There is no way to tell how far. Even the part where they discover the crashed MP van in BIO0 takes place away from the crash site, not right next to it.
Click to expand...

These are ordinary cuts, which in no way suggest a big distance traveled. In Ø they even talk about merely searching the sorroundings. And in RE1, they can't be too far away either, because Brad escapes with the helicopter, suggesting that they didn't move very far. They must have also been barely searching the sorroundings, after landing at the same crash site. Considering the distance the train must have realistically been travelling, alpha would have arrived at the original mansion at daylight otherwise. Even if you discount gameplay as actual time spent on the train within the story, the cutscenes still suggest that it has been going (at full speed) for quite some time, with Wesker/Birkin receiving several reports and lots of different shit happening.

The distorted sense of distance is further strenghtened not only by the RE2 lab fan service, but by the fact that Enrico randomly shows up there, even though he was left behind.
 
D

DevilFox

Member
Crossing Eden said:
Read the final edit.
Click to expand...

It doesn't change my answer, I said everything already.
Only thing that I can add is that I disagree with that edit. Questioning the author's intention doesn't lead anywhere and it doesn't change a thing. Interpretation isn't a mean to give credits, it's a mean to discuss and analyze. Artists or writers can even explain themselves but that doesn't stop people to interpret and give their opinion based on their experiences and knowledge. Random example: I don't know if you ever had a chat with a Zelda lore fan, one of those who believe in some deep meanings, symbolisms and an amount of details worth of Tolkien's pen. Are they ever mentioned by Nintendo? No. Do you think there's a real intention? Lol no, not even half of the ones I read. Still, it's a good thing that people can see so much behind the game, especially when it doesn't happen so often.
Said that, we do not have Cage's opinion, that would be cool. You, like most of the internet, believe that Cage (it's always about him and rarely about the games, lol) is some kind of idiot with a pen and has no idea how a game should be made. Personally, I was disappointed at first with HR but then I spent some time to think and I did end with this easy explanation that solve everything. I'm happy, end of story. My personal interpretation has a lot to do with how our medium can be used because it's something I'm very interested in. A very easier interpretation (or a fact, my memory isn't that fresh) that you will like more, states that the thoughts of the killer are ambiguous. I don't like it because I can prove that sometimes the killer is just lying, blatantly.
I explained what I think, I gave examples and references in the game. All I had as answer is "Cage is a shitty writer"/"but the cut content.." etc, like always. The're not exactly the answers I hope for. If someone can prove me wrong with real examples, I'd raise the white flag immediately. Mentioning some kind of "universal game rules" it's pointless when the character we're talking about does break those rules, like every character in videogames that has a direct connection with the players that goes beyond the input (it means they're not just puppets we can control). Difference is that this time the guy is using those very tools against us and he's playable at the same time, easy as that. Could've been better? Absolutely, but it's not as broken as people claim it to be in my opinion.
Ending with a honest note: I always thought that it's almost funny to believe that a man, anyone in this industry, could be so dumb and stupid to the point he didn't realize the crazy amount of inconsistencies he was writing, to the point he wrote about a killer that didn't know to be the killer, cut out some key content and released the game because fuck you, it's too late to change things now! :D

And by the way, MGS2 is meant to give a clear message in the ending, there's not much room for interpretation there. I talked about Fortune's clip.
 
P

Polioliolio

Member
DevilFox said:
I'm not giving credit to anyone, I'm interpreting, I also mentioned Alighieri before as example. All who studied his epic poem (Divine Comedy) know that literary critic suggest articulated meanings behind the most (apparently) trivial sentences if not even single words. The student sooner or later will ask himself: "did the writer really mean all this stuff?" Who knows, too late to ask.
The next question should be: "is it really important?". Not that much in my opinion. To create something, even unintentionally, that's open to interpretation is still a great value and should be appreciated. See a famous game like MGS2, it's a mess at first glance but lot of its value comes from interpretation and reflecting, right? Basic example from the same game: how the hell did Fortune deflected the missiles without the device? Search your answer on the web, you'll find plenty, the one I like more is that it's a metaphor of a person that really believed in herself (her powers in this case) and succeded. Maybe the real answer is "she had another device hidden in her tits" but that would kill the charm of all that. edit: Kojima didn't give an explanation as far as I know.
What's sure is that if you look at these kind of works superficially, you're never going to ask yourself the first question, and so the second one, and that's a shame because it might be worth sometimes.
And this is what I do when I face a game/book/movie that feels fucked up at first. I try to think differently and eventually, if I find a logic, I'm ok. HR isn't hard, it can be easily explained if you see the killer not
as a controllable character
but as a person that's acting and lying all the time, totally aware of the player and the game mechanics. As I said (sorry for the repetition), like Mantis that turns off our video or the controller, the concept is pretty much the same.
It becomes more delicate though because the character is playable (until his identity gets revelead)
and he's a key element of the story.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your input. Great interpretation!
I don't even think it's necessary to explain the character-to-player mechanic
is a lie.
If he's lying to all the other characters, and he's as crazy as I think a serial killer would be, he's probably lying to himself, or at least acting, as you say. Acting in his mind. If he's not believing his own lies as he's going about his business, he's probably still thinking them that way to genuinely come off as an innocent person.
At least that seems logical to me.

There's just a ton of elbow room here to make an interpretation.

As for the cut content arguments..

I don't care if content was cut. We certainly can't explain it with the cut content because that's not the final cut and not accessible to us. Who knows what else didn't even make it to the final stage of development that may be written down in a half dozen notebooks. So all we have is what's there, and my argument has always been that's there plenty of room for interpretation.

I also, at first wondered why
the blackouts
weren't explained. Well if the answer could be as mundane as
'they're both crazy!, they'd do things like that'
then it's not even something you need to take time to show me. I can already accept that as a possible answer.
 
C

Corpekata

Banned
There's a circle of hell for people who still think "LOL phoenix down" is a relevant joke after all these years. Just because I can revive my co-op partner in Borderlands or a dozen other co-op games by kinda just hovering by them does not mean these games should not involve any death. The height of pedantry.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
DevilFox said:
You, like most of the internet, believe that Cage (it's always about him and rarely about the games, lol) is some kind of idiot with a pen and has no idea how a game should be made. Personally, I was disappointed at first with HR but then I spent some time to think and I did end with this easy explanation that solve everything. I'm happy, end of story. My personal interpretation has a lot to do with how our medium can be used because it's something I'm very interested in. A very easier interpretation (or a fact, my memory isn't that fresh) that you will like more, states that the thoughts of the killer are ambiguous. I don't like it because I can prove that sometimes the killer is just lying, blatantly.
I explained what I think, I gave examples and references in the game. All I had as answer is "Cage is a shitty writer"/"but the cut content.." etc, like always. The're not exactly the answers I hope for. If someone can prove me wrong with real examples, I'd raise the white flag immediately. Mentioning some kind of "universal game rules" it's pointless when the character we're talking about does break those rules, like every character in videogames that has a direct connection with the players that goes beyond the input (it means they're not just puppets we can control). Difference is that this time the guy is using those very tools against us and he's playable at the same time, easy as that. Could've been better? Absolutely, but it's not as broken as people claim it to be in my opinion.
Ending with a honest note: I always thought that it's almost funny to believe that a man, anyone in this industry, could be so dumb and stupid to the point he didn't realize the crazy amount of inconsistencies he was writing, to the point he wrote about a killer that didn't know to be the killer, cut out some key content and released the game because fuck you, it's too late to change things now! :D

And by the way, MGS2 is meant to give a clear message in the ending, there's not much room for interpretation there. I talked about Fortune's clip.
Click to expand...
No one said that Scott Shelby didn't know that he was the killer. He obviously did know, but the game actively misleads the player in a cheap way by having a game mechanic blatantly lie, like "I wonder what the person I just killed is doing," or just plain stupid things, like Madison being so shocked when his mother tells him the name, she makes the most shocked possible expression despite not knowing who the guy is or what he looks like, that in itself is a plothole btw, also somehow a child is capable of surviving days inside freezing cold water without freezing to death, or how absolutely no one decides to help a woman who just came out of a burning building and is watching them cough. Literally no one, they stand there pointing at the building and others seemingly don't care.

You want an example of Cage being a shit writer? Let's use Beyond Two Souls as an example. The game I was actually excited about.

-Straight faced use of cliches and scenes that are basically ripped straight out of other films with no attempt or hint at originality or even any moments where the cliches are poked fun of. Whether it's through exposition to cause a sad moment for a character like the very overused "Drunk driver wrong side of the road" schtick, characters that feel like caricatures instead of actual people, like the overly bearing angry adoptive dad and sympathetic mother trope, shit like the party scene which has been done so many times in other films that it was completely predictable what would happen.

-Immediately following the party scene in the timeline apparently Jodie has decided that she wants to hang out with girls her age and decides to sneak out because obviously you can't have a story about a girl growing up without the very original goth phase story beat. We are never shown or even told the names of who these supposed friends are, or why Jodie would want to hang out with girls her age after the last attempt=being left in a closet crying after being burned with a cigarette and harassed verbally with very realistic insults that a modern day american teenager would definitely use, like "witch."

-Throughout the game Ryan (and pretty much every other love interest) is a douche to Jodie, yet time-skip without showing how or why we are told to comply with the fact that they're apparently a thing, all we're told is "he's funny and charming." This happen regardless of whether or not the player actively chooses to lash out to Ryan for being a dick. Also CIA agents apparently use emails to ask people out for a date instead of a text, in the year 2013. The game also tries to pressure us into making Ryan forgive us for his doucheness, even with one immediately in the scene having him ask us out directly after saying, "No I don't love you." His response:"Never seen anyone so pigheaded," and yet the game still makes tries to give me the option in the next scene in the timeline. David Cage does not know how to write romance or normal human interaction.

-Disrespect to the navajo and other foreign culture, the navajo did not live in teepees yet in Beyond Two Souls they're shown living in teepees. And during the segment that takes place in the war zone, the game is pretty much saying that if you talk very slowly to foreign children who have no idea how to speak english that they will understand exactly what you want and lead you through a war zone and also understand you when you tell them to leave you alone. Also apparently a group people in the middle of literally nowhere will have access to walkie talkies because reasons. Also the Navajo can write words in english.

-Homeless people who apparently know about but actively choose not to live inside an abandoned apartment for no explained reason, they only choose to do until the pregnant woman in their group goes into labor. Only now does it make sense for them to do so. Because surely living outside in the cold during hasn't done harmed the baby in anyway despite their being a place available, that also has space heaters and working electricity.

-This is one of the biggest ones:CIA agents go out in the cold on a mission with seemingly no plan and spend the majority of time arguing amongst each other instead of coming up with a plan. And this part can only be told from first person view because this is how ridiculous this is.
"We hijacked these guy's submarines, oh and how convenient, this person I shot happened to be the exact same height and width as me since i'm 5"1 and weight 106 pounds, despite the man who's outfit i'm taking clearly not being these we're just gonna ignore it for the sake of convenience, the outfit fits perfectly damn it. Also, ryan, the caucasian man who i've rejected multiple times because you're a dick, you need to also put on the disguise, you, the caucasian member of the group, not the only other member of the group who's clearly of Eastern descent. Nah nah we got this, you stay here and find us a way out. There's no way this'll go wrong. Oh how convenient it fits Ryan perfectly too. What a world we live in. Oh shit Ryan, it's actually working, our disguises are working, it's happening, this is truly happening. Out of the bunch of guys in this room no one noticed the two very clearly caucasian people getting out of the submarine."
You can literally stand in front one of the guards for a good while before they notice, and the fact that the disguise worked for even a single second is reason enough to feel insulted as a viewer. And then there's how this chapter ends, Ryan and Jodie have been tortured, and are going away in a submarine that breaks down on their way to the surface, Jodie opens the latch in the very back of the submarine and escapes, we clearly see the submarine sinking down fast as she swims to the top and naturally it would've been filled with water almost immediately after, Jodie does not inform Ryan that she's opening the hatch so naturally there was no way for him to be prepared, he's not shown exciting the sub at all, oh and here's another tidbit, he's only wearing a tanktop with absolutely no protection against the obviously freezing cold water, and is missing an eyeball, and the game has the audacity to try and convince me that he not only survived that, but also didn't freeze to death after sitting in place for an unspecified amount of time? And i'm supposed to believe that two CIA agents think it's a good idea to stay in place in the cold instead of moving.

Those are just a few examples from the game. Then there's also the awkward uncanny flow of conversations. And there's my examples of why David Cage is a shit writer, I'm usually very forgiving about video game plots despite the obvious flaws of many video game narratives. Also concerning MGS2, the ending is open to interpretation over whether or not what's happening is actually real. That is a game that is deceptive to the player in an admittedly clever way, which is why it's held in such high regard even if I personally don't think it's all that due to how annoying Raiden is as a protagonist. There's a shit ton more openness to interpretation in that game than any David Cage game.
 
M

MixedUpzombies

Banned
Canucked said:
Yes, but then the "death" and "raise" spells don't make sense. Also, in a way, "sleep."

The implication of "Phoenix" down is also rebirth after death.
Click to expand...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS6CXgloFUg
Also Add me to Heavy Rain you kill the primary other suspect and leave a ton of his body guards deaths in your wake. Cops don't exist in Shelby world.
But then again all endings to David Cage games suck. Beyond Two Souls was the best one because the rest of the game wasn't very much better then the ending,
 
legacyzero

legacyzero

Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
Heavy Rain.

The entire game lets you see the thoughts of the characters. Then you find out the murderer is one of the characters, whose thoughts you have seen, and was not suffering from any kind of dissociative identity disorder, and the thoughts about him killing people just never came up. It was a really cheap and stupid way to create a mystery that doesn't even make sense in the game's own cheap and stupid logic.
Click to expand...
I agree with this one. I was stupified by this.
 
S

SugarDave

Member
Toa TAK said:
I love the Mass Effect series to death, (except the horrid third game's ending). But I'm really surprised no one has said Mass Effect 2 yet.

How did Ashley/Kaiden escape?
Click to expand...

As I recall, only half of the colony gets taken. It's a blink or you'll miss it line that explains this, and the fact that Ashley/Kaidan and the other guy are the only ones you see makes it seem like everyone else is gone, but presumably you interrupted the Collectors before they are loaded onto the ship and the paralysis wears off.
 
N

News Bot

Banned
Spieler Eins said:
These are ordinary cuts, which in no way suggest a big distance traveled. In Ø they even talk about merely searching the sorroundings. And in RE1, they can't be too far away either, because Brad escapes with the helicopter, suggesting that they didn't move very far. They must have also been barely searching the sorroundings, after landing at the same crash site. Considering the distance the train must have realistically been travelling, alpha would have arrived at the original mansion at daylight otherwise. Even if you discount gameplay as actual time spent on the train within the story, the cutscenes still suggest that it has been going (at full speed) for quite some time, with Wesker/Birkin receiving several reports and lots of different shit happening.

The distorted sense of distance is further strenghtened not only by the RE2 lab fan service, but by the fact that Enrico randomly shows up there, even though he was left behind.
Click to expand...

They aren't ordinary cuts. One moment Joseph is in the helicopter and gets traumatized and jumps out. The very next second, he's stoic and searching the woods with the helicopter nowhere in sight even though the camera gives you the perspectives of every member. That's because Alpha Team traveled for a while in-between the two scenes. In BIO0, Bravo Team are all together one moment then the very next second, Rebecca is far away from all of them and has her gun's flashlight on. Oh, and the scene before that, Enrico happens to say "search the surroundings" but in mere milliseconds they stumble across something already without actually searching? Are you trying to say that absolutely everything in the opening scenes happened within mere seconds of each other? It's just flat-out not how it goes down.

The cuts are quick and deliberate to save time and money on the CG by cutting out all of the boring, inconsequential investigation segments so I can understand how you'd misinterpret them, but there is absolutely no way to judge any single distances in the opening scenes of either game. Therefore there is no plot hole.

Enrico being in the lab isn't an issue either. He uses the master elevator, which means that he could've reached the lab from the underground transport tunnels, which we know from BIO2 and Outbreak was connected to several facilities, including the Arklay Laboratory and Raccoon General Hospital. It's not a stretch to think that there's yet another connected facility. Wesker in the very same game uses the same method.
 
F

freeofgreed

Member
So I'am playing FFX now and one thing that makes absolutely no sense to me is
What exactly was the Al Bhed's plan? Thier goal was to prevent summoners from fighting sin. But that doesn't make any sense. Yuna aside, why the hell do they care if some random people choose to commit suicide? They don't even believe in Yevon so to them the summoners are just regular people.This is especially weird seeing as how if they don't kill themselves millions more will die. So they're literally putting the lives of like 3 people over the lives of millions. Please tell me I'am missing something because that revelation just ruined the entire story for me.
 
B

BriGuy

Member
freeofgreed said:
So I'am playing FFX now and one thing that makes absolutely no sense to me is
What exactly was the Al Bhed's plan? Thier goal was to prevent summoners from fighting sin. But that doesn't make any sense. Yuna aside, why the hell do they care if some random people choose to commit suicide? They don't even believe in Yevon so to them the summoners are just regular people.This is especially weird seeing as how if they don't kill themselves millions more will die. So they're literally putting the lives of like 3 people over the lives of millions. Please tell me I'am missing something because that revelation just ruined the entire story for me.
Click to expand...
I like to see it as them bucking the status quo. What you said about more people dying in the interim is true, but at the same time, as long as everyone accepts that that is the way things are done and the only way things can be done, they'll never arrive at a real fix. In fact, because of Yevon's back-ass teachings about machina and such, they're actually getting further away from a solution.
 
A

ASIS

Member
freeofgreed said:
So I'am playing FFX now and one thing that makes absolutely no sense to me is
What exactly was the Al Bhed's plan? Thier goal was to prevent summoners from fighting sin. But that doesn't make any sense. Yuna aside, why the hell do they care if some random people choose to commit suicide? They don't even believe in Yevon so to them the summoners are just regular people.This is especially weird seeing as how if they don't kill themselves millions more will die. So they're literally putting the lives of like 3 people over the lives of millions. Please tell me I'am missing something because that revelation just ruined the entire story for me.
Click to expand...

Did you beat the game?
 
F

freeofgreed

Member
BriGuy said:
I like to see it as them bucking the status quo. What you said about more people dying in the interim is true, but at the same time, as long as everyone accepts that that is the way things are done and the only way things can be done, they'll never arrive at a real fix. In fact, because of Yevon's back-ass teachings about machina and such, they're actually getting further away from a solution.
Click to expand...

Yeah I get their end goal but the way they went about it was terrible. Them kidnapping summoners isn't going to make people try to find alternatives, especially seeing as how most of the populace hates them. If anything all it's going to do is make people retaliate against them even more, which actually did happen.

ASIS said:
Did you beat the game?
Click to expand...

I haven't but I did have pretty much the entire thing spoiled for me a few years ago. But I don't see how that changes things. Even if they were ultimately right, with the knowledge they had at that point their plan still makes zero sense.
 
A

ASIS

Member
freeofgreed said:
Yeah I get their end goal but the way they went about it was terrible. Them kidnapping summoners isn't going to make people try to find alternatives, especially seeing as how most of the populace hates them. If anything all it's going to do is make people retaliate against them even more, which actually did happen.



I haven't but I did have pretty much the entire thing spoiled for me a few years ago. But I don't see how that changes things. Even if they were ultimately right, with the knowledge they had at that point their plan still makes zero sense.
Click to expand...

Well the main point here is lack of communication, the Albed are shunned from the rest of the world. What they see is summoners giving up their lives for nothing. It might not be the right way but in their logic kidnapping them is better than seeing them die in vain.
 
S

snyderman

Neo Member
GatticusFinch said:
Oh, God. Do not get me started on that shitfest that spawned a thousand Reddit threads so stupid people could convince themselves they are smart.

"You just don't you get it. Constants and variables!" Yeah, I get it, but fuck you, that is stupid as hell. Literal deus ex machina ending that people convince themselves was good storytelling, then prop the game up as "art."

And about that ending:
There are infinite realities, but if we drown you in this one, you die in all of them, but only the bad version of you? So dumb.

The fucking hero and the fucking protagonist are
supposedly the same person from different realities, but one is living in a floating city while the other is on the ground until he takes a rocket up there IN THE SAME REALITY. If the realities are separate and they are the same person, how in the hell could they possibly meet?

They can make robot servants, but somehow they have to fly in hated minorities to work shitty jobs? They couldn't just fly in more white people? Preposterous.
Click to expand...

I get the feeling you are one of those people that played it once, didn't pay full attention, and then go " I didn't get it so it must be dumb". Then again most of neogaf is filled with ignorant. stupid people, so i guess its a giving.
 
C

ClayKavalier

Banned
I just finished The Wolf Among Us and I'm not sure if this is a plot hole or if something just went over my head, but I don't understand why
Lily's body was in the bed at the shady motel.

Everything in the room pointed toward Crane being the killer. The picture, the signs that he was interested in recreating the scenes from the story explained why she was laying on the bed, the loud music that covered the murder, Crane's reaction when he sees Bigby investigating through the Magic Mirror.

I understand that there's going to be red herrings in a mystery story, but the murder makes no sense to me once you find out that Georgie killed Lily and Faith. Why was she laying on the bed? Wouldn't she get up in surprise if Georgie busted in? Why did he kill her there when she was waiting for Crane? It would have been better to do it at the club so there'd be fewer potential witnesses. Why didn't Beauty notice Georgie walk into the motel? It seems like everyone knows who he is and that he's really shady.

The very end didn't make sense to me either. I think it's Nerissa at the end and that she was just revealing that it was her at the beginning by reusing the "You're not as bad as they say you are" line, but some people are convinced that it's Faith at the end. What's presented as some crazy plot twist is just confusing. Nerissa/ Faith admits to planting Faith/ Nerissa's head at the Woodlands, but how did the second head get there?

I still really liked the game, but it reminds of The Long Goodbye. The atmosphere and characters are great, but the plot doesn't quite add up.
 
L

luslanz

Neo Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
(ME1)

No, the

Geth ground troops got aboard the Citadel through the Conduit, along with Saren. The fleet exists to allow Sovereign to physically attach himself to the Citadel. The Geth fleet / Sovereign could have attacked whenever, but they needed the commando team on the Citadel to do their part. Hence why Saren just walking unopposed into the control room on account of being a spectre would be so trivial. He could even bring a squad of mercenaries with him for protection if he wanted but there is no real reason that anybody woudl stop him from logging into a terminal that he would have access to as a spectre.
Click to expand...

Saren may have been able to use the terminal as a Spectre, but once the geth fleet showed up and his intentions were clear he would've been shot down regardless of his authority.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Adam's death in Metroid Other M is hilariously preventable. It's hard to not come up with a better solution. Samus could have dropped a Power Bomb, Samus could have shot from the outside with her gunship, Adam could have set a remote bomb, etc. In a game full of plot holes, this one especially stands out.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Wreck-It Ralph said:
Metroid Prime

In some scans, the Space Pirates talk about how they encountered the Metroid Prime and even equipped it with weapons (the reason it has all of Samus's beam types).

But... you need all of the artifacts to even access the Impact Crater, which was sealed by the Chozo.

I think they actually removed some scans in later versions of the game to fix this.
Click to expand...
The way I rationalized this plot hole is that Metroid Prime dug out of Impact Crater deep underground, then went back after being briefly captured and powered-up by the Space Pirates. This is also why the Space Pirates had to dig deep to mind phazon, because deep underground is where the Cradle could no longer contain it. Basically, the Cradle was already failing to properly contain Metroid Prime; Samus just needed the Artifacts because she can't exactly burrow to Metroid Prime.

The "fixed" version creates a new plot hole anyway: Where the hell did Metroid Prime get its obviously technological weapons like gas bombs, missiles, tractor beams, etc?
 
V

Verger

Banned
Yeah, the Metroid Prime thing was always weird. It's like they tried to explain why Prime is the way it is when you encounter it, but didn't realize that it made no sense for the Space Pirates to have been able to breach the forcefield of the Impact Crater when their logs stated they were unable to do so.

So they retconned it in the Trilogy version it seems. But as was stated, if Metroid Prime had no outside contact, then how does it have such armaments? It shouldn't have anything if it came just from Phaze.
 
//ARCANUM

//ARCANUM

Member
I'm half way into VIRTUE'S LAST REWARD and unless I'm mistaken or it is explained later, I might have found a plot hole:

the game says that once you start the ambidextrous game in the elevator, the doors lock until the polling is over. But Dio goes in and votes early (which everyone is pissed about) and then is out in the hallway like no problem. So the doors don't lock?? Or is this some "answer revealed later" kind of thing? Or am I mistaken?
 
D

DigitalDevilSummoner

zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Jisgsaw said:
Final Fantasy XIII is a good one:
Ch1-3: hey, let's not do what those fal'Cies tell us to do, it can't be good.
Ch4-9: pfiou, thank God we didn't do as we've been told, barthandelus wants us to kill Orphan (as he can't do it himself), thus killing everyone on Cocoon.
Ch.10-13: Hey guys, these fal'Cies are asholes. Let's kill Orphan!
Click to expand...

The devil in the details:

Barthandelus, throughout the game was guiding and training the team. He obviously wanted to take advantage of their -Pulse afflicted- l'Cie focus. The team's focus was: to transform into Ragnarock. NOT to defeat Oprhan. Why ? Because no single MAN was able to face Orphan. Bart never cared about them fighting Orphan in their present human form because he knew that was only going to result in failure but he lied to them to push them forward in hope they would achieve Ragnarock form at some point (turn Super Saiyan). What happens in the end: they fight and fail because they still have separate agendas, Fang wants to save Vanille and Light & Snow wants to save Serah. They fought as individuals. They only managed to defeat Orphan without turning Super Saiyan AFTER Fang's failed attempt. Which gets us to the game's moral: at that point they worked together, no heroes, no single man on their own, no separate agendas but united. So the ragnarok form is reserved for saving Cocoon after Orphan was killed.

Lightning smiles, game ends, XIII-2 and LR are spin-offs.

tumblr_m7t1u03roP1qmdn48o1_1280.jpg
 
E

encephalon

Member
Burning Vigor Attack said:
Not sure if I would call it a plot hole but in Final Fantasy VIII
why don't they simply destroy the machine Odine is creating so that Ultimecia can't travel back in time in the future?
Click to expand...

The machine is just a primitive prototype that would lead to collective research and improvement of the technology. It's not the machine itself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Days Gone is the closest thing to a perfect open-world zombie game that I could hope for, but the pacing of the story is what drags it down
2 3
126
8K
Drizzlehell replied
  • Poll
Why Dino Crisis remake simply doesn't make sense and what Capcom needs to remake instead.
Opinion Poll Analysis 2
97
6K
ThatPolishGuy replied
I feel The Legend of Zelda’s new format is somewhat worse!
2
54
4K
hemo memo replied
Anyone play Deracine? FromSoftware Miyazaki Directed PSVR game.
VR
12
1K
PanzerCute replied
Tear [circle]jerkers | what was the last game that made you cry?
2 3
110
3K
Sidney Prescott replied
Top Bottom