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Finding the Rap GOAT final (2Pac vs Eminem)

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Majestad

Banned
AmbrossiaforHeads started doing polls to find the rap GOAT about a month ago, and right now they are on the final match: Em vs PAC.

PAC

In just five short years making albums, Tupac changed Hip-Hop. Like his background, and his young life, Tupac Shakur’s music is filled with passion, soul, and conviction—amidst contradiction. His albums (and many of his songs) were conscious and Gangsta Rap at once, taking on police, society, and industry foes within the same confines. At times, ‘Pac was a pepped-up lyricist who was inspired by the greats, displaying metaphor, alliteration, flow, and cadence. In other places, Shakur rapped conversationally, coming from a place of sincere urgency, more about the content than the method. This duality has made the artist also known by 2Pac one of Hip-Hop’s most enduring superstars, with sales and critical acclaim that have far outlasted his tragic 1996 murder.

Tupac’s versatility may be his greatest attribute, from the socially-narrative (“Brenda’s Got A Baby”) to the anthematic (“California Love”) to the revengeful (“Picture Me Rollin'”). From the top and the bottom, Tupac was gifted in making highly-specific songs that listeners could relate to. He cemented classic LPs such as Me Against The World, and the Death Row follow-up All Eyez On Me double-album. Moreover, ‘Pac’s messages and collaborations spanned the Hip-Hop map long before Rap ever lived on the Internet. Known for fast writing, and often limited takes in the studio, ‘Pac’s urgency may be one of his flaws, but he maintained to get the words out while the thoughts were real, and the ink was wet—and that’s just what he did.

Em

Eminem may be the MC who single-handedly ended one of Hip-Hop’s laziest eras for lyrics upon his late 1990s arrival. Self-deprecating, impassioned, and wildly imaginative, Marshall Mathers came in through Rap’s screen door as an underground Hip-Hop MC running with The Outsidaz, DJ Spinna, and Thirstin Howl III. However, it was Em’s three-ring battle performances and uncanny ability to freestyle top-quality verses that landed his tape on Dr. Dre’s desk. Once there, Slim Shady combined his hardcore Hip-Hop past with big budget videos, A-list guests, and masterful conceptual production to make him a diamond-selling icon that seemingly was the genre’s biggest superstar since Tupac and The Notorious B.I.G.

Eminem’s career touches upon all facets of Hip-Hop, from battling, to true school, to Gangsta Rap, and everything in between. Arguably, Em has the most innovative flow since the late 1980s, with the ability to rhyme fast, slow, and in between on the same track. Like a percussion instrument, Marshall’s gift of gab employs syncopation and a pinball rhyme style to complement the elaborate content. In his writing, Eminem can be brutally honest about himself and others, while also being whimsical, harshly critical of the world at large, and wildly entertaining in social commentary. He is Lenny Bruce, Mike Tyson, and Masta Ace in one modern man. With classic, cohesive albums, Academy Award-winning (and Grammy Award-winning) songs, and a style that’s the envy of all of Eminem’s Rap peers, predecessors, and pupils, how could he not be the GOAT?

You can vote here:

http://ambrosiaforheads.com/2015/05/finding-the-goat-the-final-battle-eminem-vs-tupacwho-you-got/
 
Eminem? goat?
CJLsXKo.png
 
I really agree with this match up, these 2 are the greatest rappers in my list. Although I listen to eminem more and like more of eminems music I gave my vote to 2pac.

His song unconditional love hits me right where it hurts and it makes me feel like I am listening to more than just music. No other artist regardless of genre has made me feel like I feel listening to that song.
 
Tupac may have a more emotional impact on people, but Eminem has better technical ability. So really it depends on which means more to you.
 
Funny that both of these two guys along with Rakim and Biggie are my top 4 of all time.

I would go Eminem for lenght of career.
I did see 2pac live in concert and it was a great show.... but I think Eminem edges him on longevity.
 
What is your top ten like?

Off the top of my head, in no particular order outside of the first couple

Nas, Kool G Rap, Ghostface Killah, Biggie, Scarface, Andre 3000, KRS-One, 2Pac, Ice Cube, Jay Z.

My criteria is pretty simple. Lyrics, flow, consistency (albums), storytelling, metaphors, longevity. My problem with Eminem is that his best work doesn't age well, he hasn't really grown much as a rapper, and he has been trash for a decade. He was a great rapper but his recent stuff is just bad, and the older stuff doesn't really hold up in hindsight. Obviously my list features other people who suck now (KRS-One) too.

I'm hesitant to put 2Pac in the top ten as well. While he's a personal favorite, as a rapper he doesn't really hold a candle to guys like Biggie, Nas, Jay, etc. Or as a lyricist. But as a songwriter he was pretty damn good, and had one of the best voices/delivery in rap.

My problem with Em stans is that it's obvious most don't listen to rap outside of Em and a few rappers connected to Dr Dre. So they sit around marveling at Eminem's amazing flow while ignoring the people he got it from (G Rap, Nas, AZ, etc). Basically Eminem fans tend to be music plebes who only listen to him. How anyone can defend his last few albums is beyond me.
 

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
I honestly can't remember ever encountering a hardcore Eminem fan (in past and present) who also has taste in hip hop music that I find remotely respectable. Just being honest.
 

Cagey

Banned
Tupac
(Eighth Round Winner, Against Rakim 49.56% to 49.44%)
(Seventh Round Winner, Against Nas 50.3% to 49.7%)
(Sixth Round Winner, Against The Notorious B.I.G. 56% to 44%)


Poll done fucked up.
 

Eos

Member
Eminem is one of the GOAT technical rappers but he just raps about random shit. If he could pick a good beat for once (hasn't in a while), actually rap about something with a focused vision, he would make better songs but it's too late for that.

As for tupac, I like quite a few of his songs and has 2 great albums. But let's be real, he's overrated and isn't even top 5.

Neither eminem or pac are GOAT.
 
Here's a simple criteria for greatness or the greatest:

If I put all of your albums on a Playlist and hit shuffle, whose songs would I be skipping the least?

Tupac.
 
This isnt even a question. Tupac Amaru Shakur is the embodiment of Hip Hop in its rawest and purest form. Frankly speaking Tupacs impact on the culture firmly puts him ahead of any of his peers. Besides he gave us Dear Mama, If I Die 2nite and Hit Em Up. He is the Michael Jordan of Rap
 
I agree with these finalist and even though my vote goes to Pac for the range and versatility I wouldn't be mad if Em took it.

I actually think Em's longevity may be a negative in this situation as his later work is not nearly as good as his early one. Still, you have to give it to him in terms of skill and lyrical ability.
 

badb0y

Member
Off the top of my head, in no particular order outside of the first couple

Nas, Kool G Rap, Ghostface Killah, Biggie, Scarface, Andre 3000, KRS-One, 2Pac, Ice Cube, Jay Z.

My criteria is pretty simple. Lyrics, flow, consistency (albums), storytelling, metaphors, longevity. My problem with Eminem is that his best work doesn't age well, he hasn't really grown much as a rapper, and he has been trash for a decade. He was a great rapper but his recent stuff is just bad, and the older stuff doesn't really hold up in hindsight. Obviously my list features other people who suck now (KRS-One) too.

I'm hesitant to put 2Pac in the top ten as well. While he's a personal favorite, as a rapper he doesn't really hold a candle to guys like Biggie, Nas, Jay, etc. Or as a lyricist. But as a songwriter he was pretty damn good, and had one of the best voices/delivery in rap.

My problem with Em stans is that it's obvious most don't listen to rap outside of Em and a few rappers connected to Dr Dre. So they sit around marveling at Eminem's amazing flow while ignoring the people he got it from (G Rap, Nas, AZ, etc). Basically Eminem fans tend to be music plebes who only listen to him. How anyone can defend his last few albums is beyond me.
Jay-Z? Ok, lol.
 
This isnt even a question. Tupac Amaru Shakur is the embodiment of Hip Hop in its rawest and purest form. Frankly speaking Tupacs impact on the culture firmly puts him ahead of any of his peers. Besides he gave us Dear Mama, If I Die 2nite and Hit Em Up. He is the Michael Jordan of Rap

Jordan came back from his sudden retirement
 
Jay-Z? Ok, lol.

Only someone who doesn't know much about rap would deny Jay's greatness. Flow wise? Come on. Obviously he has been trash for nearly a decade but his best albums are better than many's (including Eminem) and he was once pretty witty. I say all this as a Nas stan.
 

The Adder

Banned
Funny that both of these two guys along with Rakim and Biggie are my top 4 of all time.

I would go Eminem for lenght of career.
I did see 2pac live in concert and it was a great show.... but I think Eminem edges him on longevity.

Pac got killed in the middle of his career...

And STILL dropped albums
 

Jay Sosa

Member
yeah, very odd. the man has proved himself ten times over as one of the greatest wordsmiths of all time.

his discography may be very inconsistent, but as a rapper his talent is undeniable.

What use is being an awesome rapper when your albums sucks? Dude is like 2 outta 10.

Only someone who doesn't know much about rap would deny Jay's greatness. Flow wise? Come on. Obviously he has been trash for nearly a decade but his best albums are better than many's (including Eminem) and he was once pretty witty. I say all this as a Nas stan.

To this day I don't understand what happened to Jay after the black album. He went from best rapper alive to being worse than Migos.

Eminem. Is he the only rapper to be this successful without using the N word? (serious question)

well...
 
Eminem, pls. Let it go guys, move on, even his older stuff sounds dated as fuck now. His recent stuff doesn't even bare thinking about.

Pac is a fair shout but he wouldn't be close for me personally. I'd take practically all the top guys from that era over him, Big Pun, L, Jay, Nas, Mobb Deep, Biggie etc.

Black Thought needs a mention too, he always seems to go kinda unnoticed in these discussions but he's definitely top 5 for me.
 
Eminem. Is he the only rapper to be this successful without using the N word? (serious question)
I think he's used it once in his earlier times, but that actually is an interesting question. He hasn't had to use crutches like that like a lot of rappers have to use to make rhyming 101 easy.
how tf did hopsin not make this trash list
Because this is a competition of best rappers of all time not who's the best fad of 2013.
 

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Eminem is one of the GOAT technical rappers but he just raps about random shit. If he could pick a good beat for once (hasn't in a while), actually rap about something with a focused vision, he would make better songs but it's too late for that.
.

WTF

lol, besides his battle rap style, he's literally know for conceptual stuff, he's work is very focus.

Em is not my favorite rapper at all, but he is undeniably one of the best of all time, some people seem to to hold these statements together, Every argument against him being considered on that level can be applied to Every rapper in the same position. His battle rap, creativity, flow, style...there was and still, nothing like Em.
 
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