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Nintendo says No Wii successor anytime soon

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
TunaLover said:
Seriously, at this point they can ride alone, it sucks for Wii owners but it seems like Nintendo completely give up on 3rd parties, heck they already gave up on releasing own Nintendo published games *sigh*.
First of all, fuck third parties. They have no one to blame but themselves. Put out a real game with a real marketing budget, not some halfassed spinoff game you don't tell anyone about, before you come crying about what's not working.

Secondly, are you insane? "They already gave up on releasing Nintendo published games?" I just...

WHAT?
 
Htown said:
First of all, fuck third parties. They have no one to blame but themselves. Put out a real game with a real marketing budget, not some halfassed spinoff game you don't tell anyone about, before you come crying about what's not working.

Secondly, are you insane? "They already gave up on releasing Nintendo published games?" I just...

WHAT?

Nintendo has had some large droughts in their release schedule for the Wii, and Nintendo of America's localization efforts this gen are the worst they've been in a long time, perhaps ever. I expect one or both of these is what he's referring to.

As for 3rd parties, it's an odd situation. There are some fine, memorable 3rd party games on the Wii (though admittedly not a lot of them), so I'm not all that dissatisfied with the library. But on the other hand, there's not been a single 3rd party Wii release that made me scratch my head and wonder "why didn't that sell better?". And yet that's exactly the attitude every single 3rd party publisher has taken, publicly whining that their Wii games deserved great success but didn't get it. So...yeah, fuck 'em.
 

Eteric Rice

Member
Leondexter said:
Nintendo has had some large droughts in their release schedule for the Wii, and Nintendo of America's localization efforts this gen are the worst they've been in a long time, perhaps ever. I expect one or both of these is what he's referring to.

As for 3rd parties, it's an odd situation. There are some fine, memorable 3rd party games on the Wii (though admittedly not a lot of them), so I'm not all that dissatisfied with the library. But on the other hand, there's not been a single 3rd party Wii release that made me scratch my head and wonder "why didn't that sell better?". And yet that's exactly the attitude every single 3rd party publisher has taken, publicly whining that their Wii games deserved great success but didn't get it. So...yeah, fuck 'em.

But if Nintendo says fuck em', how do they fill the gaps in the FPS, RPG, etc, genres?

The lack of third party games this gen is hurting Nintendo's mindshare, so if they want to completely control the market like the PS2 did, they need third parties.
 

Steel Cog

Neo Member
DrGAKMAN said:
Here's what Reggie said to CNBC:
“First, off and I’m sure Reed [CEO of Netflix] would support this is, the vast majority of content that is available for streaming through Netflix is not HD content. So, there is really no loss for the Wii consumer – the fact that they can’t get any HD content through our system,” said Fils-Aimé.

“But, even more importantly than that, the consumer has voted. Over 26 million consumers have bought a Wii. The consumer is saying, for them, the quality of the visual is not nearly as important as the overall entertainment, the overall value of that experience and that is really what has propelled us. In terms of what the future holds, we’ve gone on record to say the next step for Nintendo in terms of home consoles will not be simply to make it HD, but to add more and more capability and we’ll do that when we totally tapped out all of the experiences for the existing Wii and we are nowhere near doing that yet.”

Don't ignore this, people.
 

$200

Banned
Hero said:
In this thread:

A bunch of people who are delusional in thinking Nintendo has much to gain from a 'Wii HD' and would bother when Wii is still selling more than it needs to.

The same could be said about the DSi, even today the DS Lite is still selling very well.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Hero said:
In this thread:

A bunch of people who are delusional in thinking Nintendo has much to gain from a 'Wii HD' and would bother when Wii is still selling more than it needs to.
Nintendo have been console leader before and lost that lead in a console generation transition, and it took them 2 generations to recover. We just saw Sony lose there dominance during a generational transition. How much do you think Nintendo would be willing to invest to guarantee that the current Wii install base would stay with them long term?
 
poppabk said:
Nintendo have been console leader before and lost that lead in a console generation transition, and it took them 2 generations to recover. We just saw Sony lose there dominance during a generational transition. How much do you think Nintendo would be willing to invest to guarantee that the current Wii install base would stay with them long term?

E3 and TGS are the biggest events of the year(with GDC a close second). Showing off major hardware at this E3 might be premature but by E3 2011(next year), will it be TOO late?
 

zoukka

Member
Really? You don't want to prematurely launch a successor to the mill that spwes out gold and shadows the competition? REALLY NINTENDO?
 

upandaway

Member
gamergirly said:
E3 and TGS are the biggest events of the year(with GDC a close second). Showing off major hardware at this E3 might be premature but by E3 2011(next year), will it be TOO late?
Regarding the Wii and DS, there is nothing bigger than a simple half minute commercial.

Black-Wind said:
No ones ignoring that as much as we simply don't care for Reggie's PR statements.
I think you should re-evalulate your definition of "ignoring".
 
upandaway said:
I think you should re-evalulate your definition of "ignoring".
How so?

I assumed he was referring to the "WII+/HD 2010!" camp and not the people screaming "HORSE SHIT! THERES NO REASON FOR IT!".
 

Bizzyb

Banned
Steel Cog said:
Don't ignore this, people.

So it will do more than just HD? I am not surprised at all. Reggie is still not denying the existence of WiiHD. I bet Nintendo has WiiHD ready just in case Sales start to dip when NATAL and Wand are released.

Wii IS already tapped out. Adding Netflix is not, to me, an example of the limitless possibilities of the system.
 

GamerZero

Member
gamergirly said:
E3 and TGS are the biggest events of the year(with GDC a close second). Showing off major hardware at this E3 might be premature but by E3 2011(next year), will it be TOO late?

At E3 2011 there will most likely be new hardware shown.
 

Vinci

Danish
Eteric Rice said:
But if Nintendo says fuck em', how do they fill the gaps in the FPS, RPG, etc, genres?

They won't. Simple as that. They're not going to have a FPS on the Wii that overshadows what people have on the PS3 or 360 anyway, so why bother with it? [Again, Nintendo: Mario Paintball. Thank me later.] As for RPGs: They're swimming in good ones. On the DS. Which seems to be the destined home for RPGs in the future.

The lack of third party games this gen is hurting Nintendo's mindshare, so if they want to completely control the market like the PS2 did, they need third parties.

There's honestly little they can do about it, beyond what kame-sennin has recommended in Nintendo creating a program (or something) that helps small 3rd party developers make games for the Wii and market them. Because the little guys can't cut it at retail without a strong presence behind them, for the most part. The bigger 3rd parties? Lost cause, don't waste the money.
 
Bizzyb said:
So it will do more than just HD? I am not surprised at all. Reggie is still not denying the existence of WiiHD. I bet Nintendo has WiiHD ready just in case Sales start to dip when NATAL and Wand are released.

Wii IS already tapped out. Adding Netflix is not, to me, an example of the limitless possibilities of the system.

That reminds me of the Netflix Oct rumor/ news guy's comment on his page about his use of the Wii HD as a factor into when Nintendo uses Netflex.

". . . To me, the story is not about a new Wii, rather it's about Netflix. But two folks who told me about the Netflix's streaming on the Wii also spoke about new Wii HD units."
 

Cygnus X-1

Member
Soneet said:
I really don't think Netflix is that big of an importance like the article is suggesting. I thought the only real counter was the price drop.

This. These dudes that write articles regarding the videogame industry don't understand a shit about.
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
Bizzyb said:
So it will do more than just HD? I am not surprised at all. Reggie is still not denying the existence of WiiHD. I bet Nintendo has WiiHD ready just in case Sales start to dip when NATAL and Wand are released.

Wii IS already tapped out. Adding Netflix is not, to me, an example of the limitless possibilities of the system.

No matter what Reggie says, we already know an HD capable successor to the Wii is coming...you're gonna believe what you want regardless of what anyone says just like I believe that this sucessor (not half-assed mid-gen bump) is coming later rather than sooner!

Natal & PSWand will do no more than a WiiHD add-on would...the Vitality Sensor (being cheaper, a newer innovation and on the right system with the right audience) has WAY more potential than the competition's motion control me-too's.

NSMBros. Wii would like to have words with your "tapped out" comment...that is the hottest game with the mass market right now and is giving Nintendo a second wind going into 2010 (which also promises a new Metriod, Galaxy & Zelda!). There's plenty of life on Wii and I imagine NSMBros. Wii will have just as strong "legs" as Mario Kart Wii or Wii Fit...why would Nintendo cut all that short with a mid-gen bump to WiiHD so soon? There's still more games, services, pricedrops, colors, peripherals to be milked!

Netflix is a GREAT move that is now being downplayed by Nintendo naysayer just because. It tells people that:
-Wii can actually go online!!! (this works better to get the word out than anything Nintendo could do by themselves)
-Nintendo actually embraces more than just games now (notice how Reggie now refers to the Wii as an entertainment console and not just a gaming one)
-Nintendo isn't deliberatly uncompetitive by offering features their rivals do as well (this is one less thing competitors can say Nintendo can't do)
-Nintendo may look to do more partnerships/deals in the future which is only good for everyone
-Nintendo wasn't going to half-ass their movie streaming efforts by trying to do something on their own
 

Bizzyb

Banned
DrGAKMAN said:
No matter what Reggie says, we already know an HD capable successor to the Wii is coming...you're gonna believe what you want regardless of what anyone says just like I believe that this sucessor (not half-assed mid-gen bump) is coming later rather than sooner!

Natal & PSWand will do no more than a WiiHD add-on would...the Vitality Sensor (being cheaper, a newer innovation and on the right system with the right audience) has WAY more potential than the competition's motion control me-too's.

NSMBros. Wii would like to have words with your "tapped out" comment...that is the hottest game with the mass market right now and is giving Nintendo a second wind going into 2010 (which also promises a new Metriod, Galaxy & Zelda!). There's plenty of life on Wii and I imagine NSMBros. Wii will have just as strong "legs" as Mario Kart Wii or Wii Fit...why would Nintendo cut all that short with a mid-gen bump to WiiHD so soon? There's still more games, services, pricedrops, colors, peripherals to be milked!

Netflix is a GREAT move that is now being downplayed by Nintendo naysayer just because. It tells people that:
-Wii can actually go online!!! (this works better to get the word out than anything Nintendo could do by themselves)
-Nintendo actually embraces more than just games now (notice how Reggie now refers to the Wii as an entertainment console and not just a gaming one)
-Nintendo isn't deliberatly uncompetitive by offering features their rivals do as well (this is one less thing competitors can say Nintendo can't do)
-Nintendo may look to do more partnerships/deals in the future which is only good for everyone
-Nintendo wasn't going to half-ass their movie streaming efforts by trying to do something on their own

NSMBWii is a once a year, hell once a generation type of game to stir such a sales bump. It's the return of 2d mario on a home console which hasn't been seen in what, 10 years?

DO you REALLY think Nintendo can duplicate that and keep sales that high on Galaxy2 or Metroid Other M? People will begin to lose interest in Wii once they realize they can get the accessible motion control games on Sony and MS's system IN HD, with a shit-ton other features. Nintendo is about to lose it's ace-in-the-hole when those two drop and WiiHD is exactly what they need to, at the least, stay on even level playing field, keeping the hardcore's (or what's left of them) and the casuals mindshare, while also keeping things just as interesting and fresh on their side of the fence, esp with 3rd party Devs jumping ship and heading into NATAL and Wand development for greener pastures.
 

C.T.

Member
Bizzyb said:
NSMBWii is a once a year, hell once a generation type of game to stir such a sales bump. It's the return of 2d mario on a home console which hasn't been seen in what, 10 years?

DO you REALLY think Nintendo can duplicate that and keep sales that high on Galaxy2 or Metroid Other M? People will begin to lose interest in Wii once they realize they can get the accessible motion control games on Sony and MS's system IN HD, with a shit-ton other features. Nintendo is about to lose it's ace-in-the-hole when those two drop and WiiHD is exactly what they need to, at the least, stay on even level playing field, keeping the hardcore's (or what's left of them) and the casuals mindshare, while also keeping things just as interesting and fresh on their side of the fence, esp with 3rd party Devs jumping ship and heading into NATAL and Wand development for greener pastures.

So so know what happens in the future? Don't act like this has to be the case. It's just want you want to happen.
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
Bizzyb...
I'm not going to argue with you 'cos we both have our minds set. You think Natal/Wand will take away Nintendo's ace-in-the-hole. I think they're late reactions that won't do much, just like a WiiHD wouldn't do much either. You think Nintendo *needs* to do a WiiHD soon. I think Nintendo doesn't need to do sh!t, especially half-assed mid-gen bumps like WiiHD.

Also, I never said Metroid, Galaxy 2 & Zelda would give NSMBros. Wii-like results, just that when coupled with the long-legs of said game they can only help to give life to the system. According to you though, Wii is completly tapped out, when the reality is this: Nintendo is *destroying* the competition in sales just as the coming NWO is *destroying* the US dollar...BOTH of these realities tell me that Wii's successor is coming later rather than sooner.

Can we get on with constructive discussions?
 
Bizzyb said:
NSMBWii is a once a year, hell once a generation type of game to stir such a sales bump. It's the return of 2d mario on a home console which hasn't been seen in what, 10 years?

Wii Sports, Mario Kart Wii, and Wii fit also seem to fit this category, as might Wii Play, Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit Plus. Including NSMBW, that's between four and seven games in a little over three years. When NSMBW was first revealed, a lot of people had the reaction that this game would not have the selling ability that the prior big games had, for various reasons. It's easy to say in hindsight that 2D Mario would obviously be one of the biggest games of the generation, easily demolishing demographic boundaries (ie, not just the at-the-time Mario fanbase).

There are a few additional games that Nintendo can still pull out of their backside to keep interest going. They'll probably try to time the next Mario Party for optimum effect (releasing just before Black Friday of '10 or '11, for example). Before they need to do that, we'll have to see how long the sustained bump caused by last Half's three big games (WSR, WF+, NSMBW) can keep going. I think it'll help a lot for this coming year that they did the price drop. There were apparently a very large number of people waiting on a lower price and a "value-added" reason to buy when it got there (that being the game we're mainly chatting about).


DO you REALLY think Nintendo can duplicate that and keep sales that high on Galaxy2 or Metroid Other M? People will begin to lose interest in Wii once they realize they can get the accessible motion control games on Sony and MS's system IN HD, with a shit-ton other features. Nintendo is about to lose it's ace-in-the-hole when those two drop and WiiHD is exactly what they need to, at the least, stay on even level playing field, keeping the hardcore's (or what's left of them) and the casuals mindshare, while also keeping things just as interesting and fresh on their side of the fence, esp with 3rd party Devs jumping ship and heading into NATAL and Wand development for greener pastures.

I still know very few people in real life that care about the screen resolution of their gaming system. Most people I know who have 360s are still gaming on SD television sets, and most people I know who had HD sets have a Wii, as well. There has been and will be a gradual shift in interest here, but it's been incredibly slow, because what people were looking for (watching and/or gaming on a shallow but large television) is sort of just coincident with what they've been buying (a television set with 720 or more lines of pixels).

Natal and Sony's thing (is it being called "Gem", or was that just a running gag that I didn't catch in the right mood?) could have a strong effect, but I think it'll depend on the software being offered. It took a few solid titles to raise that mindshare for Nintendo's system, and everything else that was offered was uninteresting crap. Pretty much Wii Sports and Wii Play and to a lesser extent Rabbids, Red Steel and the promise of RE4WE, initially, is what seems to have brought attention around at first.

Natal and Gem are getting Rabbids possibly and the latter is getting RE5AE (aargh aargh, this really makes me want to get a PS3 by the way, after my house payments start and then stabilize). Beyond that, we haven't heard much. Frankly, the demos I remember for Natal were pretty lacking. The painting was not at all precise, and the ball kicking seemed like a very basic PS2 Eyetoy type of game. Both don't seem to have a very lasting fun factor, especially since there's no obvious multiplayer competitive aspect to them. Its best aces in the hole don't seem to be related to specific game titles (the swish to do menu stuff seems pretty attractive, though). Gem had more meat to its gaming demonstrations but not much in the way of full games.

I just don't know. These offerings could explode right out the gate, or they could heavily erode away Nintendo's mindshare, but they don't seem to have anything yet that will really turn the heads of the masses.

Then again, while I thought Nintendo's new gimmick would turn heads and likely bring them to the top of sales, I did not expect anything near the insanity that actually ended up happening.
 

Hero

Member
Bizzyb said:
NSMBWii is a once a year, hell once a generation type of game to stir such a sales bump. It's the return of 2d mario on a home console which hasn't been seen in what, 10 years?

DO you REALLY think Nintendo can duplicate that and keep sales that high on Galaxy2 or Metroid Other M? People will begin to lose interest in Wii once they realize they can get the accessible motion control games on Sony and MS's system IN HD, with a shit-ton other features. Nintendo is about to lose it's ace-in-the-hole when those two drop and WiiHD is exactly what they need to, at the least, stay on even level playing field, keeping the hardcore's (or what's left of them) and the casuals mindshare, while also keeping things just as interesting and fresh on their side of the fence, esp with 3rd party Devs jumping ship and heading into NATAL and Wand development for greener pastures.

The tone of this post seems to indicate that you really believe Sony and Microsoft are in a position of power, when they're desperately trying to play catch up to what Nintendo pioneered this generation. History has shown that it is very hard to launch a new mainline accessory especially years into the generation's life cycle. I hardly expect Natal or the Sony Wand to be anything significant. Not until either one of them shows a game that really sells either one.

Nintendo could release a Wii HD. I'm sure they actually have the specs and everything planned out. But I doubt they're going to release it unless they have good reason to and think that it would increase their sales/profits.
 
Bizzyb said:
Wii IS already tapped out.

In what way? I hope you don't mean sales, because it just broke the record for most consoles sold in a single month...we'll find out later today by how much. If you mean its graphical capabilities, that's been the case since day 1, and it clearly isn't hindering sales enough to matter.

The only thing I would describe as "tapped" about the Wii is 3rd party support, and it's been so pitiful that it's hard to care if it goes away. For some companies, no support will be better than what they've done so far. It's a shame a system so successful gets the cold shoulder from most of the industry, but I don't see a "Wii HD" changing that, either.
 

Vinci

Danish
Hero said:
The tone of this post seems to indicate that you really believe Sony and Microsoft are in a position of power, when they're desperately trying to play catch up to what Nintendo pioneered this generation. History has shown that it is very hard to launch a new mainline accessory especially years into the generation's life cycle. I hardly expect Natal or the Sony Wand to be anything significant. Not until either one of them shows a game that really sells either one.

I love 'Nintendo is doomed' posts, particularly in reference to anything Sony and MS are doing.
 

Hero

Member
poppabk said:
Nintendo have been console leader before and lost that lead in a console generation transition, and it took them 2 generations to recover. We just saw Sony lose there dominance during a generational transition. How much do you think Nintendo would be willing to invest to guarantee that the current Wii install base would stay with them long term?

The reality is that none of the three console manufacturers are in a rush to go the next generation. Sony just now made a PS3 that isn't bleeding them money with every unit sold and Microsoft is making some tidy profits on the system. Nintendo has sold more than both of them combined. So you tell me why Nintendo needs a Wii HD. At the moment there's not much need for it. Sony's PS4 isn't going to be coming for a long time and neither is the next Xbox from Microsoft. Nintendo is content with riding out the rest of this generation making crazy amounts of money.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Bizzyb said:
NSMBWii is a once a year, hell once a generation type of game to stir such a sales bump. It's the return of 2d mario on a home console which hasn't been seen in what, 10 years?
.


I realize its pointless to argue with you, but NSMB Wii, as unique as it may be in certain respects, is one of what, 4-5 other Wii software titles to have such a massive impact? You act like Nintendo creating a system seller that sells upwards of 15-20 million copies is rare this generation.
 

gerg

Member
Eteric Rice said:
I feel that the veteran opinion is pretty valuable. They're the ones that get the word of mouth train rolling.

First, let's make sure we're talking about the same people. AFAIC, veteran gamers are the people who are most interested in gaming, who are usually 18-35 males. (One might refer to them as "hardcore gamers", although their demographic is mostly irrelevant to their nature as such.)

In any case, I don't think that there's much traction between veteran gamers and the expanded audience.

Furthermore, they're irrelevant by simply being a small portion of the gaming audience.

I can tell you with some certainty that it wasn't (soley) commercials that sold the Wii, it was people getting word of mouth from those first buyers, and experiencing the system at their homes during parties or get togethers.

Sure.

But Nintendo orchestrated this with or without supposed "veteran gamers" by organizing events where it demonstrated the Wii in a manner similar to Tupperware parties. It doesn't "need" these gamers.

Without it, I doubt your average gamer will jump on that next system,

"Average gamer" is much too much a vague and ambiguous word to serve any justice to the variety of people and demographics who play games.

because they'll remember that the Wii didn't have those games that they wanted to get (and had to buy another system to get). Why buy the successor when the original couldn't even get CoD:MW2?

I imagine that the vast majority people who want to play MW2 were never going to buy a Wii in the first place, so Nintendo will be building from nothing with regards to this audience.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Hero said:
The reality is that none of the three console manufacturers are in a rush to go the next generation. Sony just now made a PS3 that isn't bleeding them money with every unit sold and Microsoft is making some tidy profits on the system. Nintendo has sold more than both of them combined. So you tell me why Nintendo needs a Wii HD. At the moment there's not much need for it. Sony's PS4 isn't going to be coming for a long time and neither is the next Xbox from Microsoft. Nintendo is content with riding out the rest of this generation making crazy amounts of money.
I'm talking about getting off the 'generation' treadmill entirely, going to a more PC type route but with upgrades every 2 or 3 years, which are always backwards compatible, but not necessarily 100% forwards compatible. I'm not saying it is going to happen, but it is an outside possibility, and the only one where a Wii HD console anytime soon makes sense.
 

Hero

Member
poppabk said:
I'm talking about getting off the 'generation' treadmill entirely, going to a more PC type route but with upgrades every 2 or 3 years, which are always backwards compatible, but not necessarily 100% forwards compatible. I'm not saying it is going to happen, but it is an outside possibility, and the only one where a Wii HD console anytime soon makes sense.

That will never happen.
 

Vinci

Danish
poppabk said:
I'm talking about getting off the 'generation' treadmill entirely, going to a more PC type route but with upgrades every 2 or 3 years, which are always backwards compatible, but not necessarily 100% forwards compatible. I'm not saying it is going to happen, but it is an outside possibility, and the only one where a Wii HD console anytime soon makes sense.

I know many console gamers who would throw an absolute fit if it adopted a PC model. They don't want to deal with the hassle of upgrading every two to three years. And honestly, I don't think that would be very appealing to the mainstream market either.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Hero said:
History has shown that it is very hard to launch a new mainline accessory especially years into the generation's life cycle.

Without arguing against your overall point, this seems a little dubious.

1) Sony replaced the PS1 controller with the dual analog and then replaced that with the dual shock. Successfully. The one difference here is that the PS1's sales were more lopsided toward the end of its life than any other console, winning or losing.

2) Given that we all agree the earliest relevant history goes is the NES, how much historical data do we really have? The NES had no competition and so that generation offers no examples of what competition can do. The SNES had the Genesis. The Sega CD, the 3x, and the Saturn were all so trivially poorly conceived that I think we can safely say that neither Natal nor the Wand can really be compared meaningfully here. So we have the 64, which introduced the expansion pak successfully but modestly, and the PS1 which swapped controllers twice... in the PS2 generation, the only attempt to introduce accessories mid-way through was the PS2 introducing the hard drive, which worked for its limited purpose.

While the eReader and the Bongos and all sorts of whacky peripherals have been, in my opinion, failures intellectually if not economically, I don't think they were introduced with an eye towards really replacing, moving an audience, or enabling truly new capabilities for general use. It's fair to say that the examples listed above are probably the best comparisons to Natal, Swaggle, and even Motion+.

So, again, the sum total of historical evidence here is:
- Sega couldn't run a business.
- Sony was able to swap their controller
- Nintendo launched a new expansion because they bundled it with every game that used it and launched it with high profile software.

And the sum total of what we know so far this gen is:
- Motion+ sells well with launch titles and WSR, but has an uncertain software future
- Natal has a lot of major publisher support, but we don't know what the support is or how it'll pan out.
- Swaggle... uh...
 
poppabk said:
I'm talking about getting off the 'generation' treadmill entirely, going to a more PC type route but with upgrades every 2 or 3 years, which are always backwards compatible, but not necessarily 100% forwards compatible. I'm not saying it is going to happen, but it is an outside possibility, and the only one where a Wii HD console anytime soon makes sense.
I feel like people are way more willing to accept this iterative hardware idea with mobile devices than home consoles, which are seen more like fixtures.
 

Hero

Member
Stumpokapow said:
Without arguing against your overall point, this seems a little dubious.

1) Sony replaced the PS1 controller with the dual analog and then replaced that with the dual shock. Successfully. The one difference here is that the PS1's sales were more lopsided toward the end of its life than any other console, winning or losing.

2) Given that we all agree the earliest relevant history goes is the NES, how much historical data do we really have? The NES had no competition and so that generation offers no examples of what competition can do. The SNES had the Genesis. The Sega CD, the 3x, and the Saturn were all so trivially poorly conceived that I think we can safely say that neither Natal nor the Wand can really be compared meaningfully here. So we have the 64, which introduced the expansion pak successfully but modestly, and the PS1 which swapped controllers twice... in the PS2 generation, the only attempt to introduce accessories mid-way through was the PS2 introducing the hard drive, which worked for its limited purpose.

While the eReader and the Bongos and all sorts of whacky peripherals have been, in my opinion, failures intellectually if not economically, I don't think they were introduced with an eye towards really replacing, moving an audience, or enabling truly new capabilities for general use. It's fair to say that the examples listed above are probably the best comparisons to Natal, Swaggle, and even Motion+.

So, again, the sum total of historical evidence here is:
- Sega couldn't run a business.
- Sony was able to swap their controller
- Nintendo launched a new expansion because they bundled it with every game that used it and launched it with high profile software.

And the sum total of what we know so far this gen is:
- Motion+ sells well with launch titles and WSR, but has an uncertain software future
- Natal has a lot of major publisher support, but we don't know what the support is or how it'll pan out.
- Swaggle... uh...

The PS1 Analog controller / Dual Shock thing is an exception for sure. But when they start packaging it with the system and take the old controllers off the shelves it's inevitable people will buy it since they have to.
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
It should also be factored in that the WM+ is much cheaper by comparison and (as well as any other peripheral for Wii) fits the audience, whereas Swaggle (I like that, ha ha) and Natal will be more expensive and be given to an audience that basically *hates* Wii and may feel alienated by it.

The WiiFit Balance Board should also be factored in as one of the best (yet most expensive) additions to a system (though it came much sooner) and is still selling. EyeToy was a success in it's own way, but it did come really late to the PS2 who already had a huge audience. I can't see Swaggle or Natal hitting the same sweetspot the WiiFit Balance Board did, nor do I even see them doing as well as the EyeToy.

I mean remember Home, remember the Avatars, remember the Scene It! controllers...all of these things and MORE were thrown in as an effort to turn the tides against the Wii by trying to appeal to "that" audience. All the while (lesser versions) of music peripheral games sold better on Wii...hell even the Tony Hawk Skateboard sold better on Wii. The Wii "audience" is just so mix-mashed and so big that and in some case so new that peripherals make more sense to them. PS3 & X360...not as much...
 
I don't know Gakman I think it's way too early to say Natal won't find success. If it releases with compelling software and good marketing it will find an audience. Since we have yet to see evidence to the contrary I think it's too early to be making assumptions about the success it will have.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Has anyone ever tried to think through how a Wii HD would actually work?

- Nintendo would have to go back to AMD to modify an ages old ATi Flipper chip to somehow be able to increase fourfold in fillrate, when the Wii bump was a modest 1.5-2x. They'd have to design and tape out a completely new old chip, very expensive

- Nintendo would have to build some elaborate software tricks to make current Wii games HD, which would still likely break with many games that use some obscure non-standard API. Very software wizardry intensive and risky.

Alteratively, Nintendo could

- Simply upscale the SD visuals without actually drawing natively at 720P, which wouldn't be much of an increase. Very disappointing.

- Do a completely new powerful chip that emulates Flipper for Wii compatibility but does all the modern stuff like Open GL 2.0, HD etc. Very much like a completely new generation of a console.

Simply, I have not been able to imagine a way how a Wii HD could happen without it being

- stupidly expensive compared to benefit (super Flipper)
- stupidly risky (emulation in HD)
- a complete next generation console (new chip)
 

donny2112

Member
LegendofJoe said:
I think it's too early to be making assumptions about the success it will have either way.

Fixed.

To be realistic based on Microsoft's past efforts to bring in a non-core audience dating back to Fusion Frenzy on the Xbox, it seems unlikely they'll succeed, but maybe they've found the key this time with Natal.

Chittagong said:
- a complete next generation console (new chip)

That's what it would have to be. I think Pachter even clarified that once in a thread here, thus making it a null prediction. Nintendo has said since before the Wii that their next console would likely output in HD resolutions.
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
Chittagong said:
Has anyone ever tried to think through how a Wii HD would actually work?

- Nintendo would have to go back to AMD to modify an ages old ATi Flipper chip to somehow be able to increase fourfold in fillrate, when the Wii bump was a modest 1.5-2x. They'd have to design and tape out a completely new old chip, very expensive

- Nintendo would have to build some elaborate software tricks to make current Wii games HD, which would still likely break with many games that use some obscure non-standard API. Very software wizardry intensive and risky.

Alteratively, Nintendo could

- Simply upscale the SD visuals without actually drawing natively at 720P, which wouldn't be much of an increase. Very disappointing.

- Do a completely new powerful chip that emulates Flipper for Wii compatibility but does all the modern stuff like Open GL 2.0, HD etc. Very much like a completely new generation of a console.

Simply, I have not been able to imagine a way how a Wii HD could happen without it being

- stupidly expensive compared to benefit (super Flipper)
- stupidly risky (emulation in HD)
- a complete next generation console (new chip)

Exactly...there's basically no point.

We've seen in the Wii Dolphin emulation thread that a lot of GCN/Wii games look much better with some AA filtering and upscaling...it's there...it's just, is it worth it to do a new system? A new system who's only real bump would be upscaling (what about Iwata/Reggie saying it would be MORE than just an HD Wii?)? A new system that would have to have SOME kind of way to transfer your data (WFC game saves, WiiShop Channel purchases, etc.) from your existing Wii to it???

What's even more proposterous is when Pachter & the Pachter-ite's suggest it'd be on-par with PS360 thus splitting the userbase for basically little more than shitty/late ports of those HD games...bla.

They might as well just wait until next generation. Until then, what could give Wii more life is something that can simply be added to the system/controller to make the gameplay better/different as oppossed to improving the graphics trying to satisfy the UNSATISFIABLE hardly-core.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Vinci said:
I know many console gamers who would throw an absolute fit if it adopted a PC model. They don't want to deal with the hassle of upgrading every two to three years. And honestly, I don't think that would be very appealing to the mainstream market either.
But you wouldn't have to upgrade every 2 or 3 years, your console would still be viable for the same or even longer amount of time, it just wouldn't provide the 'best' version of a given game after 2 or 3 years. The main purpose would be to mitigate the risk of a PS2 -> PS3 transition where you lose more than half of your audience overnight. Its an outside possibility for sure, but not completely untenable, especially when you are the market leader and have hardware that is almost a generation behind.
 

Vinci

Danish
poppabk said:
But you wouldn't have to upgrade every 2 or 3 years, your console would still be viable for the same or even longer amount of time, it just wouldn't provide the 'best' version of a given game after 2 or 3 years. The main purpose would be to mitigate the risk of a PS2 -> PS3 transition where you lose more than half of your audience overnight. Its an outside possibility for sure, but not completely untenable, especially when you are the market leader and have hardware that is almost a generation behind.

I get what you're saying, man. As a PC gamer, I even acknowledge the possibility - but I know for a fact that it would take away some of the console's appeal. [In this sense, I mean 'console' as a 'gaming platform' - not the Wii specifically.]
 

tenritsu

Banned
If anytime soon means before Fall this year then yeah :lol

I guarantee that we are getting Wii HD by the end of this year worldwide.
 

JavyOO7

Member
WiiHD won't do nothing for Nintendo. What Nintendo needs is to improve 3rd party relations even though the Wii has the monster sales it has mostly due to its first party efforts.

Courting small developers with the Wii mindset would be a good move. And I don't think all too late either. Because this first iteration of motion control is just the start, but once the developers have that paradigm shift they'll be more than ready to make games with the stuff as needed.
 
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