Hamster Plugin
Member
This is also true, and the least they could do is let people download their GFWL stuff from Windows Store, even if it required people to upgrade to Windows 10 (dick move, but at least it's a free upgrade till June).
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Greenberg: Quantum Break is not coming to Steam
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
This is also true, and the least they could do is let people download their GFWL stuff from Windows Store, even if it required people to upgrade to Windows 10 (dick move, but at least it's a free upgrade till June).
LordRaptor
Member
The fundamental question here is do regular users of a popular* piece of software (Windows) find much benefit in that software becoming increasingly locked down to better imitate the functionality familiar to users of unpopular software (Xbox, Windows Phone).
I mean, it would seem obvious from Windows 8 moving to a touchscreen only paradigm and then dialling that the hell back being the major selling point for 8.1 and 10 that the overall feeling for that is no.
*"popular" here being a descriptor of userbases both in absolute terms and in comparative terms for their respective markets
What are you on about? As a consumer, in which scenario is keeping a game locked to a shitty store front a good thing?
Bitch Pudding
Member
I actually don't give a fuck about the store front. Buying a game costs me 2 minutes of my life. What happens afterwards is what matters. I'd have to deal with all the limitations (due to games running as an app) all the time, that's what bothers me.
It's absolutely okay for MS to use their very own IPs to promote their very own store, but some guy at Redmond said "Hey, let's make it as hardcore gamer-unfriendly as we can!". Just let the games run as .exe and MS has a new friend.
Nocturno999
Member
There's an absurd amount of great content on PC to even care tbh. MS needs to realize that.
roadrunn3r
Member
Huh I left this thread with people not even reading what this was all about. Now there is a defense force for UWA, I think I actually prefer shitposting than people defending freaking UWAs.
That's what I was referring to when I said shitty store front.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
UWAs are quite good actually. Not for hardcore gaming, but for other purposes. I would not want them to go away in general.
There's a defence force for everything.
We even had a GFWL defence force earlier in here.
At least I won't buy anything on the store before they do some changes about the limitations with UWAs(for the games).
Well anything but rare replay(if that ever happens) because viva piñata is one of my all time favorite games.
roadrunn3r
Member
That makes sense but that's why Microsoft needs a different solution for gaming on PC that isn't based on the Win store and UWAs. No one here would mind that much if it were just another store honestly. I use Origin and GOG sometimes and I'm ok with it, would do the same with an "ordinary" Microsoft store which doesn't take away the main reason I play games on PC which is being open platform.
Yea let's see what happens when some of these games release but I really hope Microsoft reconsiders this all thing. There is a right way to do it that makes everyone happy.
GhostTrick
Banned
Thanks, I've been out of the PC loop for a while as my home computer is ancient
paperspace
Member
Well, as it turned out most of them weren't even interested in PC-gaming in the first place, so it wasn't a big deal to them.
Also, in an attempt to make their argument stronger some of them pointed out they had a job in the "IT-industry".
Lilalaunebaer
Member
I work in IT. The very first thing i´d do, after someone called me and asked why one of his "apps" isn´t working and if i could help him, is hang up the phone immediately.
At least with regular software, i can look for stuff, fucking apps, nope. Go away. Thankfully our company isn´t on the stupid train and won´t be for some time, since the admin holds the same opinion. Fuck apps, PC aren´t tablets.
IT people that prefer apps, fucking hell.
having a universal executable that runs on multiple form factors does not necessitate all of the restrictions that come with UWA/mobile style apps. they designed it this way because they wanted more control over what software runs on their OS and what it can do. there are positives (security) and negatives (microsoft has final say over everything, far less capable software) to this.
what it comes down to is that they're taking away every single benefit PC games have compared to mobile and console games except better visuals, and a lot of people aren't happy about that.
You can buy keys in other stores, sure, but you always have to download and play Portal 2 or HL2 via Steam. So it's basically a "no".
GhostTrick
Banned
As I said, you still have to use Steam to activate, download and play your copy.
GhostTrick
Banned
You cant activate them on Uplay ? Or does Uplay makes you launch Steam when you activate it from Uplay ?
I say just let MS hear it so they can fix their store, because it is totally ok that they want to push Win10,DX12,the store and their PC platform. Everyone has done it and people complained about Origin, but they don't really care now.
Those who really care will find the way to put it on steam, those who do not want that Win10 store experience to be better.
Those who really care will find the way to put it on steam, those who do not want that Win10 store experience to be better.
Just like they fixed GFWL am I right?
If you start it from uPlay is simply launches Steam. You don't even need uPlay to play it after the initial activation in Steam. It's basically just a proxy.
GhostTrick
Banned
So, basically like Uplay games on Steam. So yes, you can have Steam games natively on Uplay.
So yes, Valve sell their games on other storefronts.
Caayn
Member
Natively would imply that you won't need Steam to run the game. That however isn't the case. Uplay is merely a proxy in this case and the game is still running on Steam.
So yes, technically you can buy Valve games outside of Steam but you're still required to run Steam in order to play the game.
GhostTrick
Banned
Which is the same for Uplay. This isnt the problem. The problem is to not allow buying on other storefront.
But the most important thing is that no matter what store you get it from, it will still be a standard windows application. I would have no problems buying a MS game on Steam (or just straight from MS) that then launched through some MS client, as long as it wasn't a damn UWA.
But as it is with their history, I'm not sure if I want to buy into this ecosystem that they might as well abandon in 5 years making my games completely unplayable (unless they get cracked).
The point of differentiation being pointed out is access and price though right?
Steam, among other things, is both a storefront and a launcher. Origin is the same. This means I can buy a game elsewhere in principle, even a cheap physical copy say, although if the game requires Steam to launch then yes I need to use that.
Part of the issue with QB being exclusive to Windows Store is that you don't have freedom of purchase options and your access to potentially different price points is removed.
Least ways that's how the argument looks to me unless I'm missing something. I agree Steam does look to tie you in to using it even if you didn't buy from it, but it does seem more open in terms of purchase options at this point vs Windows Store and usage on UWA to launch and play games.
tiredheadcrab
Member
Well actually Google is merging Android and Chrome OS for a desktop OS. According to Arstechnica that should go into Preview sometime this year.
iNvid02
Member
this is another issue that messes up the inclusion of full PC games in the win10 store, we're accustomed to being able to buy from many different places regardless of what platform the game ends up using, but if microsoft view this as their iOS app store then this could be the only place to buy from, with an option to maybe buy credit/balance cards/codes from other places.
that combined with the current restrictions around UWAs is pretty unpalatable personally
It's still a problem with the games in question (Quantum Break and future Microsoft games) if we would need to use the Windows Store to launch them when bought elsewhere. People want the games on Steam, GOG or Origin, etc. so they use those services instead (for launching and updating).
It's the main reason I don't buy Ubisoft games any more, which are available to purchase on Steam: I don't want to use Uplay.
wapplew
Member
Didn't know that, but I think it won't change much, androids on PC only serve a niche market.
LordRaptor
Member
ChromeOS only serves a niche market anyway; its a low powered thin client that as a functional necessity requires 'always on' internet.
tiredheadcrab
Member
I dont think that is true either since they are sending out codes for QB for you to enter in on the Windows store in pc to get the game.
Looks like dll injection is possible as well.
http://i.imgur.com/gqlGZnf.png
I used this (because it would have taken me a lot of time to write a dll injection program myself):
https://github.com/stephenfewer/ReflectiveDLLInjection
The message box worked when injecting into my own windows store test app, but didn't work on minecraft, so I replaced it with assigning 0xDEADBEEF and "int 3" (a breakpoint).
Which means that so far i didn't encounter any of the restrictions mentioned in this thread besides the requirement to sign the app package (which you can do yourself).
http://i.imgur.com/gqlGZnf.png
I used this (because it would have taken me a lot of time to write a dll injection program myself):
https://github.com/stephenfewer/ReflectiveDLLInjection
The message box worked when injecting into my own windows store test app, but didn't work on minecraft, so I replaced it with assigning 0xDEADBEEF and "int 3" (a breakpoint).
Which means that so far i didn't encounter any of the restrictions mentioned in this thread besides the requirement to sign the app package (which you can do yourself).
I like how you worded that; I fully agree.
Modding is an important part of PC gaming. When files get re-encrypted after download, PC gaming stops affording the player the freedom we've come to expect.
Its my game. Let me play around with it as much as I want. I'm not pirating it; I'm literally hurting no one by having fun with SweetFX, etc. ...Why doesn't Microsoft understand this?
Wowfunhappy
Member
Super cool! So it looks like Windows Store apps aren't nearly as locked down as we've been assuming; they're just different.
Caayn
Member
Interesting, thanks for posting your findings. Did you encounter any unusual problems?
The app store uses http (doesn't mean you can download everything, they do use authentication), so it was actually easier to download the packed appx directly from microsoft than messing with the windows app folder permissions.
The certificate you sign with, needs to use SHA256, since that's what the appx packer uses (at least by default).
I needed to pay attention to x64. I am used to everything being x86 (32 bit), so sometimes things didn't work and then I would notice I was trying to use an x86 application\tool on an x64 store app.
I usually write in python/matlab/c++ - i.e. high-level languages. I am used to getting errors in a mostly human readable and understandable format. So looking at WinAPI calls and dissasembly was quite annoying.
The message box working/not working on different apps is strange. At the very least I expected it to be consistent. It requires more digging into the UWP VM, which I can't do.
I'm an idiot for believing these others that say it is impossible..here is a stackoverflow talking about doing it to winrt apps which these are the successor to...injection is plenty possible...people might just have to some more work http://stackoverflow.com/questions/...ion-with-metro-applications-nektra-vs-komodia
tiredheadcrab
Member
I guess we can start crossing things off Durante's list.
I know I shouldn't have believed the hype. That's what I get for not doing my own research (which I usually do). Blah.
That's good, I guess.
Perhaps in time, a few years from now, if Microsoft can show us that it's committed as much as Valve, and the companies behind other established digital distribution platforms on PC, then I might reconsider but until then I'm still not interested in purchasing PC games through a service maintained by Microsoft.
Assuming a positive outcome, I'll eventually be inclined to jump on board with the Windows Store and get all those cool games I missed out on at nicely reduced prices.
Perhaps in time, a few years from now, if Microsoft can show us that it's committed as much as Valve, and the companies behind other established digital distribution platforms on PC, then I might reconsider but until then I'm still not interested in purchasing PC games through a service maintained by Microsoft.
Assuming a positive outcome, I'll eventually be inclined to jump on board with the Windows Store and get all those cool games I missed out on at nicely reduced prices.
I'm not gonna bother catching up in this thread. All I will say is it'll take time for the Windows 10 store to get where Steam and Origin are.
Let's not forget the steaming pile of shit Steam was when it first launched. It wasn't that great. God that was a long time ago it seems lol.
Let's not forget the steaming pile of shit Steam was when it first launched. It wasn't that great. God that was a long time ago it seems lol.
paperspace
Member
Did anyone really say it was outright impossible?
The point was, at least for me, that it required a completely unnecessary workaround for every injection we're currently used to.
I mean, every missing feature is very possible ... it just requires a lot of unnecessary work.
I've had Windows 10 since day 1 and happened to peek into the games section...i almost puked my guts up. I couldn't believe how piss poor that game section is..all shovel ware for phones...just garbage games and then you suddenly see Rise of Tomb Raider...it so not fits in with those garbage phone games.
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