NormalFish
Banned
Timu got you covered.
PS3 component cables work just as well, and you'll probably have a bit more luck googling those.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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PS3 component cables work just as well, and you'll probably have a bit more luck googling those.
sixteen-bit
Member
Anyone ever use one of those Trinitrons with Playstation RGB inputs?
NormalFish
Banned
Were those for hotels and such or for actual consumers? I've never heard of it, honestly. Do they have JP-21 inputs or some proprietary connector?
sixteen-bit
Member
speedlolita
Member
I think more than just that set has that port - obviously only Sony sets though.
Japan has JP21 but it isn't that common so I guess this was the solution that Sony went for in the 90s.
Japan has JP21 but it isn't that common so I guess this was the solution that Sony went for in the 90s.
NormalFish
Banned
you're missing a g in that linkIt's a proprietary port with the Playstation AV multi-out pinout.
Looks the same as the AV port coming out of the playstation itself. Makes sense.
Chackmate atheists.
Beer Monkey
Member
They were obviously planning on the Single Console Future.
Apologies if this is confusing but had a question regarding my PVM image. Everything looks great so far, albeit this one minor aspect. When the screen is completely white in certain games I can notice a faint blackish line across the screen at about a third of the way from the bottom. It seems less noticeable from different angles (and non-existent if looking closeup). Any ideas? Am I going insane?
As in the PS3 cable will work with my PS2 no problems? Seems like a better option than $80 linked by Tony if there is no difference
NormalFish
Banned
a PS3 component cable with work on a PS2 exactly the same as an original PS2 cable.
They are much easier to find, and more brands are still available.
Probably the wire holding the aperture grille in place. On both of my JVC HD CRTs I can see the two wires holding the grille in place if the screen is light. One is a third of the way from the top, the other is a third of the way from the bottom.
Probably the wire holding the aperture grille in place. On both of my JVC HD CRTs I can see the two wires holding the grille in place if the screen is light. One is a third of the way from the top, the other is a third of the way from the bottom.
Thanks for the reply, Mega. The position in the picture definitely looks the same; appreciate the help! Now to try to ignore the OCD thoughts
I was expecting that. Your upscaler isn't working properly.
Luma is the black and white component of a Composite picture. When merged with Chroma in a single cable, it gives the shitty Composite artefacts that we all loathe. When using a strong filter to remove entirely the colour component, it gives a perfectly clear black and white picture. S-Video has both Luma and Chroma on separate wires, and YUV has Chroma further separated in two components for even better colour resolution. PAL and NTSC diverge in their encoding of Chroma, but Luma isn't encoded. It's why a PAL or NTSC-only TV will show a black and white but very clean picture when fed the other encoding.
Your upscaler shows a colour picture when using Composite video as Sync, and a black and white picture when using Luma as Sync. Therefore your upscaler uses only the signal given on the Sync pin to process the image. In other words, your colour picture is Composite video upscaled, your black and white picture is Luma video upscaled. The RGB video signals are ignored by the hardware. If you were to use a Csync cable, you'd have no picture at all, as Csync doesn't carry any visual information.
Check the manual of your upscaler, maybe there is a menu to setup, or maybe there are small prints saying that only Composite through Scart is supported.
The problem may also lie with the cables, although it's less likely as it is happening with two different cables. Have you sourced them from different sellers / makers? Open the Scart plug of either and check whether the pin 16 is wired, and whether it's connected to +5V at the console end.
IrishNinja
Member
645 downplays HDTV stuff, never saw that one coming, haha...for real, i don't know what to tell you, man. FUD has folks thinking it happens to everyone, when it seems to happen to very few people - and of those who bought quality sets (pioneer/panasonic), did proper break-ins and the like, even fewer. but bang that drum, i guess
aw, don't say this! i need to fix this shit or my whole CRT efforts will be for naught...i mean, it's working but the colors are really off on some stuff
I have the same problem. I believe it's interference due to a failing or cheap power brick. But I could be wrong and changing the Component cable may be the solution, keep us updated!
Thank you for your reply and explanation, it is much appreciated =]
The cables were sourced from different sellers so I don't think they are the issue. I don't have the guts or know-how to open or check connections on the cables. My upscaler is a non-branded chinese box with no options/menus, just a switch to choose 720p or 1080p output. So like you I suspect that is the problem, as connecting directly to the TV is fine using all the cables I have.
I have ordered a more expensive upscaler that specifically states it accepts RGB and in general looks more capable. I have also ordered a CSYNC cable so that I have all bases covered.
In a week or so they should arrive and I will try all combinations to see what works and post back here.
Thanks again.
Will do! If it's the power brick then it sounds like it may be PS2 repair weekend.
Beer Monkey
Member
I played 300 hours of Modern Warfare 2 on my Kuro with zero burn in. Zero.
New HDMIDC video.
It's still thinking.
It's still thinking.
I searched on Google, and this was the closest and most recent thread related to the Philips CD-i that I could find.
Anyway, I was playing Lucky Luke: The Video Game (which, by the way, is unique to the Philips CD-i and was never given a release on other platforms and was only released in Europe) on my Sony Trinitron CRT which was given to me by my cousin. The game looks crisp and sounds good on that TV.
A little-known fact about the game: one of the enemies is a ripped sprite from Lemmings with an added cowboy hat and the developers even copied the death sound effect. Also of note, the game's art was done by an unheard of defunct Asian and/or pseudo-Asian game art company called Pixelhazard which also did art for The Apprentice and the CD-i version of Dimo's Quest.
Anyway, I was playing Lucky Luke: The Video Game (which, by the way, is unique to the Philips CD-i and was never given a release on other platforms and was only released in Europe) on my Sony Trinitron CRT which was given to me by my cousin. The game looks crisp and sounds good on that TV.
A little-known fact about the game: one of the enemies is a ripped sprite from Lemmings with an added cowboy hat and the developers even copied the death sound effect. Also of note, the game's art was done by an unheard of defunct Asian and/or pseudo-Asian game art company called Pixelhazard which also did art for The Apprentice and the CD-i version of Dimo's Quest.
HDMIDC upscales 240p to 4K
This is going to be another one of those things where people will be like "Where was this? How come you never mentioned it, televator? U suk." Isn't it?
This is going to be another one of those things where people will be like "Where was this? How come you never mentioned it, televator? U suk." Isn't it?
It looks like he took my suggestion from the other vid(HDMI Dreamcast) to use 4k for youtube(which everyone should for 3D games).HDMIDC upscales 240p to 4K
This is going to be another one of those things where people will be like "Where was this? How come you never mentioned it, televator? U suk." Isn't it?
Phooey, I thought the mod was upscalimg to 4K. He up scaled it on a computer. Oh well, at least the project is still on.
here's another N64 HDMI video
for this video, i went and captured in 640x480 since i played with direct mode and then upscaled and added black bars to make the pixels fit 1:1 in a 1080p frame and still get 60 fps. that's how i get around my PC not being able to record anything beyond 720p60 without dropped frames (no money to upgrade PC )
i think for the next time i'll try upscaling all the way to 4K to see what happens since it's 1:1 upscaling from where i reached with this one.
for this video, i went and captured in 640x480 since i played with direct mode and then upscaled and added black bars to make the pixels fit 1:1 in a 1080p frame and still get 60 fps. that's how i get around my PC not being able to record anything beyond 720p60 without dropped frames (no money to upgrade PC
)i think for the next time i'll try upscaling all the way to 4K to see what happens since it's 1:1 upscaling from where i reached with this one.
That would had been awesome, but for youtube the quality is at it's best.
DO IT!!! 4k is worth it! It makes vids look better since they can use higher bit rates at that res.here's another N64 HDMI video
for this video, i went and captured in 640x480 since i played with direct mode and then upscaled and added black bars to make the pixels fit 1:1 in a 1080p frame and still get 60 fps. that's how i get around my PC not being able to record anything beyond 720p60 without dropped frames (no money to upgrade PC
i think for the next time i'll try upscaling all the way to 4K to see what happens since it's 1:1 upscaling from where i reached with this one.
speaking of that, what's a good bitrate for 4k?
20 Mbps/20000 kbps
Oh please!
geniusbits
Member
Not a finished product but the point is that picking a certain tech at a point in history is just as arbitrary as saying you are more productive of a person when they are 5 or 80 years old. No one knows what the future holds for technology and very likely something no one has ever thought of (or an old tech) will take over basic functions like illumination.
My consumer JVC CRT has the same problem, it's a 60hz hum bar. Try out your other systems, specifically bright or mostly white scenes/content if possible, to see if it exists there as well. If so it is not your cable or your PS2 but a problem with either your power supply in the set or how it's handling the power from your house. I got used to it eventually as unless I'm looking for it or am on a static screen I don't usally notice it, and it also is less noticeable on 240p content presumably thanks to only appearing on the viewable lines of resolution making it harder to spot.
I never saw it before I moved in 2013 so my set either sufferred damage in the move or just doesn't handle the power from my current house well. Other CRTs I have do not suffer the same issue. Hopefully your issue is only related to an issue with the PS2 so you don't have to deal with it permanently.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
So I just moved from a very old curved screen crt a more modern one I just found on the side of the road a few minutes ago.
It's silver flat glass toshiba with a built in DVD player only has composite inputs but whatever.
Anyway from my Genesis I can see distinct verticals lines every 2 inches or so. Mostly only visible on a black screen but still frustrating. Is there anyway to fix this? Unfortunate the display only has yellow composite inputs so I can't upgrade to a better cable.
Is it the tv, the system, or the cable? Never saw these on my last screen which was much crappier. I put a DVD in the tray and the image quality was very good.
Still an upgrade from the last screen but the bars are annoying.
It's silver flat glass toshiba with a built in DVD player only has composite inputs but whatever.
Anyway from my Genesis I can see distinct verticals lines every 2 inches or so. Mostly only visible on a black screen but still frustrating. Is there anyway to fix this? Unfortunate the display only has yellow composite inputs so I can't upgrade to a better cable.
Is it the tv, the system, or the cable? Never saw these on my last screen which was much crappier. I put a DVD in the tray and the image quality was very good.
Still an upgrade from the last screen but the bars are annoying.
heh i've noticed something weird about my TV.
there's certain text colors that look blurrier if i'm not using PC mode. first time i notice this.
i also noticed by mere chance. i was playing a 720p game that was being upscaled by the TV.
it's pretty weird since all settings were the same with PC and non-PC modes. the only reason i had turned off PC mode was because i can't change color with it.
this sort of sucks because PC mode is only active with progressive HD sources. if i use an interlaced (up to 1080i) or a 480p source, i can't get it so now i feel i'm missing out in part of the TV's features.
there's certain text colors that look blurrier if i'm not using PC mode. first time i notice this.
i also noticed by mere chance. i was playing a 720p game that was being upscaled by the TV.
it's pretty weird since all settings were the same with PC and non-PC modes. the only reason i had turned off PC mode was because i can't change color with it.
this sort of sucks because PC mode is only active with progressive HD sources. if i use an interlaced (up to 1080i) or a 480p source, i can't get it so now i feel i'm missing out in part of the TV's features.
How are projectors for gaming? I was thinking of replacing my Naomi Universal cab's CRT (when it eventually dies) with some sort of rear-projection setup to maintain the 4:3 aspect ratio, and was wondering if this would be a viable setup? I just need something that's VGA and 640x480.
socksfelloff
Member
Are you using that monitor in a cabinet?
Sounds like you need a CRT computer monitor.
Naomi outputs 640x480 via a standard VGA (PC) output. (Basically a Dreamcast with VGA out.) The monitor is a 29" in 31 kHz CRT. It weighs a ton, and has a huge footprint. I am not optimistic that I'll be able to easily or cheaply source another CRT that size once it finally dies.
I was thinking that I could replace the CRT with a rear-projection setup inside the display housing, once it dies. I am just curious if anyone has any experience with playing games using a projector, and the pros/cons of doing so?
i used this and made the video this past weekend.
posted it today because i wanted it to coincide with a Sailor Moon episode (lol)
Ultra HDMI N64 footage scaled to 4K.
NormalFish
Banned
looks good. Clean as hell.
It's a proprietary port with the Playstation AV multi-out pinout.
That's really hype.
Pardon me. Just reposting this quote in here more for documenting purposes:
Of course, if anyone wants to discuss the contents of this post, I'd be more than happy to engage. Heck, I encourage you. Let's talk bit depth RGB GAF.
PSX games actually look incorrect if they are too crisp. You can output a crisp image from the console, but the games themselves were made with NTSC colorbleed in mind. This is because, often, for speed, games would downsample from 18/16 bpp to an 8bpp framebuffer that would introduce really nasty fullscreen dither.
When you view many PSX games with crisp output, like you get if you use the SVideo cable, you get stuff like this:
Now, that would all look ok if there was a 1 pixel blur applied to the screen, or if there were scanlines, or if there is NTSC/PAL colorbleed going on to mask the dither, but straight, crisp output winds up looking wrong otherwise.
Of course, if anyone wants to discuss the contents of this post, I'd be more than happy to engage.
Heck, I encourage you. Let's talk bit depth RGB GAF.NormalFish
Banned
His post is nonsense since he used the word "incorrect" to describe the picture.
In seriousness, I think those screenshots look terrible. While the smoother gradients and smudged detail offer a lot in terms of (what I'll call...) "perceived detail", the difference is so negligible that I'd rather just have the stair cases and higher clarity of RGB.
And just to be clear: I'm not trying to say this whole perceived detail thing is bullshit. I quite enjoy drawing with charcoals, graphite, ink, and anyone who has done so has some level of appreciation for that sort of technique. Bit of a necessity unless you're one of those folks who can spend 80 hours rendering something 1:1 without wanting to gouge out your own eyes with your tools. It's just that I don't see any real improvement here. The 240p pixels (hell, even 480p) obfuscate enough.
In seriousness, I think those screenshots look terrible. While the smoother gradients and smudged detail offer a lot in terms of (what I'll call...) "perceived detail", the difference is so negligible that I'd rather just have the stair cases and higher clarity of RGB.
And just to be clear: I'm not trying to say this whole perceived detail thing is bullshit. I quite enjoy drawing with charcoals, graphite, ink, and anyone who has done so has some level of appreciation for that sort of technique. Bit of a necessity unless you're one of those folks who can spend 80 hours rendering something 1:1 without wanting to gouge out your own eyes with your tools. It's just that I don't see any real improvement here. The 240p pixels (hell, even 480p) obfuscate enough.
Shadow Hog
Member
I thought it was from 24-bit to 16-bit which caused the dithering. Is it really 16-bit to 8-bit?
D.Lo
Member
Well 'incorrect' isn't quite true, but the programmers definitely assumed the games would be played on lower quality connections and designed their graphics around that in many cases. Just like the dithering for fake transparencies and shadows in Mega Drive/Saturn games.
I mean I'm not going to play Sonic over composite just for transparent waterfalls, but it's pretty clear that's how the effect was designed.
It's also on a case by case basis. Some PSX/N64 games have no dithering issues so you literally lose nothing with a higher quality video connection. Some have a lot of full screen dithering (eg Silent Hill 1, Majora's Mask - generally darker games and scenes have issues) and while in my opinion it's still not worth going down to composite, something is lost in RGB.
NormalFish
Banned
I can understand that. But it's still something subjective, and the "this is what the devs intended" line gets towed out far too often, I feel. I'm not even aware of a dev saying that, just that its been inferred (undoubtedly correctly) by the techniques they employed, such as the waterfalls in sonic you mentioned.
I don't have a super strong feeling on the issue though, really. I just find it odd how adamant some people are about the whole thing.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
He's right, but I would take it on a game by game basis. I haven't felt the need to drop down to the abysmal composite on Genesis but I'd consider it for a game with notable dithering on say Saturn, which has extremely clean composite.
BTW for Framemeister people if you want this effect but otherwise clean lines you could try one of the modes with the lowpass filter on. This blurs adjacent pixels that have similar color, which doesnt work for all dithering but does for the kind resulting from color depth manipulation.
BTW for Framemeister people if you want this effect but otherwise clean lines you could try one of the modes with the lowpass filter on. This blurs adjacent pixels that have similar color, which doesnt work for all dithering but does for the kind resulting from color depth manipulation.
My main interest was in the bit rate reduction happening on old machines. What looks right or wrong is a largely subjective conversation.
Have to be honest, I'm not entirely familiar with the intricate details of what causes this cross hatch artifact aside from "low bit rate fucks it up."
If anyone has some reading material worth having a look at, I'd love to consume it.- Status