blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
tmartn's network dropped him??
Did he have one? Plenty big youtubers don't.
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CSGO Lotto and owners sued over illegal gambling allegations
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
Did he have one? Plenty big youtubers don't.
Tarnpanzer
Member
LordRaptor
Member
But in many places gambling is not illegal, and it is not Valves job to police the internet, so what legal basis would Valve have to send a cease and desist?
If someone were running a site pretending to be affiliated with Valve, that would be c&d worthy, but as far as I can tell nobody is making such a claim.
Not really. This is exactly why employees of any gambling outfit aren't allowed to play there. They have access that means they can rig shit if they want to, ergo it's impossible to say that they didn't with any confidence.
Realistically though, the levels of winning all of these guys HAPPEN to show are extremely unlikely, let alone for all of them.
What do 'many places' have to do with it? In many places it IS illegal, including where Valve is operating at. You're acting like Valve can't just send a C&D to literally anyone they want. You're acting like Valve is literally helpless with their hands tied behind their backs, as though the law is going to prevent them from doing what they want with their own system to prevent gambling sites. All they have to do is update their TOS or EULA or whatever they want and start acting on it.
I think what people are saying is, given their outed deception already, it's not too big of a stretch to imagine them rigging the results in their favor. There's no tangible evidence to suggest they were doing that (at least not yet), but folks wouldn't be surprised to find out if they had been manipulating the system. It certainly would have been in their power to do so as owners and operators of the site.
Serious response: It wouldn't be that unlikely that the results were rigged with their videos where they were winning thousands of dollars as a way to promote the website. I'm not aware if the people they were betting against were in on it, were just random players using the site or if they fixed any results outside of the videos they made (or even in the videos they made,I'm just going off h3h3's line of thinking about not disclosing they were the owners and actually having the ability to alter the results for promotion reasons)
Non serious response: I'm currently looking for a squirrel to put in my apology video for misleading you.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Why do I get the feeling that we'll see an episode of Anerican Greed on this whole ordeal in a few years?
The people they won against were not in on it. If you listen to the podcast below several of the people who lost to the streamers are looking into a class action suit. The podcast is well worth a listen to on the whole subject.
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=16802961
LordRaptor
Member
No it isn't, Washington has not declared gambling illegal, and explicitly declares things like, bingo, raffles and amusement games as exempt from gambling statutes, as it rules them not to be gambling.
No, I am saying that Valve are under no obligation to dictate the actions of what people do with virtual goods.
The concept of 'ownership' of virtual items is nebulous enough that it does not need additional erosion by making declarations of controlled intent of purpose.
Currently, if you buy a virtual item from Valve, it is yours to do with as you see fit; you can trade it, you can gift it, and yes, you can gamble it. That is - in my opinion - as it should be.
e:
The leglity of gambling sites using those items is entirely the responsibility of the people running those sites.
Just as it is not youtubes job to police any video uploads for potential conflict of interest from youtubers promoting goods or services they have a stake in.
Good argument.
Welp, they sound screwed even if there's no proof of them rigging results ever found, but I'd imagine if there was any proof it'd be that much worse for them.
I'm hoping for a documentary on the whole scene.
shira
Member
These dudes might get jail, penalties from the FTC or have Youtube earnings reversed - but I don't think there is any way for those people who gambled to get compensation.
What A Time To Be Alive
Member
Yeah he was under a network before. I believe Polaris/Maker Studios but I could be wrong. He did get dropped from his network.
Well, Valve's a party to the current lawsuit, so a judge could certainly force them to restore items that were traded on CSGO Lotto.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Season 3 of American Crime Story
TheRedSnifit
Member
This isn't Ace Attorney where trials take three days. I don't think this is even beyond the "filed complaint" stage yet.
Haunted
Member
I'm completely clueless as to how gambling laws work in the US.
As a layman it certainly looks like they were involved in some shady shit with how they were not disclosing ownership/affiliation of a product they advertised, but no idea if the core business of the website itself is illegal.
As a layman it certainly looks like they were involved in some shady shit with how they were not disclosing ownership/affiliation of a product they advertised, but no idea if the core business of the website itself is illegal.
TheRedSnifit
Member
To be honest, this is probably a good argument for why Valve doesn't bother. Blizzard spends (or used to spend) a ton of resources trying to clamp down on black market dealings, yet WoW has still had, for over a decade, a massive industry built entirely around stealing accounts, hacking, phishing, and filling game worlds with bots. Like CS:GO, there were and are entire companies and websites that do nothing but provide a method of converting gold to cash.
The WoW Token was explicitly an acknowledgement that conventional methods of combating black markets were completely ineffective, and that the only way to put a dent in them are through competing with them directly (which Valve already does).
I...what? Way to completely misunderstand. Blizz does this BECAUSE of the murky legal waters (in game gambling they shut down, which is VERY tame and benign compared to the CS:GO stuff, literally people playing with monopoly money) and to protect customers, saying they 'waste' resources is crazy, they're 'wasting' resources protecting customers and handling customer service complaints. Meanwhile Valve basically doesn't have customer service AND doesn't stop the sites, it's the worst of both sides of the deal. The wow token isn't an admission that you can't stop the black market, it's moreso simply win/win from a business perspective from them and tapping an aspect of the internet that actively harms their customer base. They don't suddenly cease policing the black market as best they can because of it.
It's baffling to me how much you go out of your way to try and twist logic to favor valve.
Your first sentence says it all: "To be honest, Blizzard takes care of their customers and tries to avoid the illegalities inherant to internet gambling, and it costs them money to do so, Hence valve doesn't bother"...so yes, you're actually arguing that Valve is a shit company that doesn't do anything to stop it, glad we agree. Yes it costs money to regulate your market, that's the cost of doing business, they're making plenty of cash and would not be out doing this. Blizz actually SAVES money by doing this because they hire customer service reps to handle the issues with stolen accounts and whatnot anyway, we've pretty clearly seen in the past that valve does not: Blizzard saves money doing it, it would cost valve money to do it because they actively don't spend the money trying to help their customer base in the first place. Pretty dope company, you've convinced me.
Easily stopped in one swoop, turn off trading. If you create a market, you must in turn protect it. Valve makes a fuck load of $ off items for the pure reason they can be traded or sold.
Regginator
Member
I believe the thread title should also mention that Valve is the one being sued. CSGO Lotto and the two little fish have merely been "added to one of two complaints filed". Good news, I hope they rip Valve a new ass hole and the whole skin market nonsense gets crashed upon itself.
andythinkpad
Member
Is this going to be a class action suit?
If the lawyers are going after Valve they may settle with those two assholes first?
If the lawyers are going after Valve they may settle with those two assholes first?
TheRedSnifit
Member
The Token was explicitly designed to get people spending money on black markets to give money to Blizzard instead.
And no, it isn't for legal purposes. They don't even ban the most obvious bots anymore. A huge part of WoW staff existed only as support to field phone calls and emails. MOST of these in turn are due to people being stupid and giving out passwords, downloading keyloggers and getting their accounts stolen. The black market hurt their profit lines. Nowadays, if you report a scammer or a website selling gold for real money? They give zero fucks.
And LOL at Blizzard cracking down on in-game gambling. They've never cared about it unless you're spamming chat about it.
LordRaptor
Member
Blizzard don't do anything about gambling in WoW, it's not even against their TOS.
They don't like people spamming public channels advertising it, but that's literally the extent of their actions.
Brilliant solution that won't stop shit and will piss off the millions of people who legitimately use the trade system.
e:
Yes, this topic is about a lawsuit against valve for "targeting children with illegal gambling" which is to my mind entirely frivolous;
1) Even actual real world illegal gambling doesn't have any legal precedence for returning lost gambled money
2) it is a huge logic jump to go from
Valve have no stance / are neutral towards gambling
Valve condone gambling
Valve promote gambling
Valve promote illegal gambling
Valve promote illegal gambling and target minors
INFINITY TR1GG3R
Neo Member
I hope the campaign against these clowns never lets up.
Disgusting behaviour from them.
Disgusting behaviour from them.
BumblebeeCody
Member
They barely lost any subscribers though
mangochutney
Member
Gotta stay subscribed so you can see the next apology video before he takes it down again!
Cunning tactics everywhere.
https://clips.twitch.tv/joshog/ExcitedOxVoHiYo
JoshOG, another owner of CSGO Lotto, awkward exchange with a fan when live streaming
JoshOG, another owner of CSGO Lotto, awkward exchange with a fan when live streaming
SirClinksAlot
Member
jadedm17
Member
Awkward is the exact word id use. That silence is deafening.
SketchTheArtist
Member
Delicious.
Haha that's hilarious. What a guy.
Aztechnology
Member
Stone Ocean
Member
When you neither want to lie nor throw somebody under the bus.
Incredible. Never was 'screams internally' more apt
He means drag him in court.
That awkward silence is priceless.
NobleGundam
Banned
As he wipes his tears away with cash
Stone Ocean
Member
Legislation is still direly needed, setting precedents will help but this shit needs to be cracked up on for good.