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What type of 3D Mario do you prefer? Is your first exposure to Mario a factor?
- Thread starter RowdyReverb
- Start date
Captain Europe
Member
Are you seriously arguing that this is a 2D game?
I personally prefer Galaxy's camera and I'm glad they are doing something like that for the new Mario, but this is not what 2D is. Even Galaxy had more 2D parts than 3D World.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
I prefer a well done game. I absolutely love 64, Galaxy, and 3D World, so any of the different "styles" are fine with me. Sunshine and Galaxy 2 I wasn't so hot on.
Jawmuncher
Member
64 is still the best. Was nic, simple, and elegant.
64 DS, Sunshine and Galaxy just went too overboard for my liking for marios that are full 3D
64 DS, Sunshine and Galaxy just went too overboard for my liking for marios that are full 3D
I prefer the 3D World style tbh but also enjoy the Galaxy style games
64 is meh as fuck for me. too much nothing.
my first exposure to mario is definitely a factor because I grew up with the NES and SNES mario games so I have certain expectations for what a mario game is and should be. for instance being able to go into a level, get a power up, and exit the level with that power up was a welcome return in the 3D games. also the exploration in 3D World definitely reminded me of Super Mario World where you'll be going about the level and might see something curious in the corner of the screen and are usually rewarded for figuring out how to get there. I also prefer the pure platforming of the 3D games.
in my opinion the 64 style games would be better suited under a different IP. I've always held the opinion that yoshi would be great for that. that way they can keep it semi-related to mario but differentiate the style of gameplay.
64 is meh as fuck for me. too much nothing.
my first exposure to mario is definitely a factor because I grew up with the NES and SNES mario games so I have certain expectations for what a mario game is and should be. for instance being able to go into a level, get a power up, and exit the level with that power up was a welcome return in the 3D games. also the exploration in 3D World definitely reminded me of Super Mario World where you'll be going about the level and might see something curious in the corner of the screen and are usually rewarded for figuring out how to get there. I also prefer the pure platforming of the 3D games.
in my opinion the 64 style games would be better suited under a different IP. I've always held the opinion that yoshi would be great for that. that way they can keep it semi-related to mario but differentiate the style of gameplay.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Started with 1 through 3, but 64 was and is my favorite. I want exploration puzzle platforming in Mario again. 64 is just filled to the brim with ideas.
Part of the hook with 64 was learning a new area and slowly getting to areas you didn't think possible or practical. Mastering an area made it so memorable in a similar way to Dark Souls.
Part of the hook with 64 was learning a new area and slowly getting to areas you didn't think possible or practical. Mastering an area made it so memorable in a similar way to Dark Souls.
Shadowplay1979
Member
I grew up with SMB 1-4
I loved Mario64
My problem with newer 3d marios is less about gameplay and more about aesthetics.
I find mario and his crew/enemies to have retained pretty much the same design and look since Mario Sunshine. Its all become very stale and paint by numbers where as earlier marios changed designs from title to title. I think the whole thing could use a huge shake up..and going from what we saw with switch...it doesnt look to be happening and i dont expect modern Nintendo which seems to be more about streamlining its designs to change much either.
I loved Mario64
My problem with newer 3d marios is less about gameplay and more about aesthetics.
I find mario and his crew/enemies to have retained pretty much the same design and look since Mario Sunshine. Its all become very stale and paint by numbers where as earlier marios changed designs from title to title. I think the whole thing could use a huge shake up..and going from what we saw with switch...it doesnt look to be happening and i dont expect modern Nintendo which seems to be more about streamlining its designs to change much either.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
I like Mario 64's open world. My first Mario platformer was SMB in 1986. I love Mario 64, think Sunshine needed more polish to be great, think the Galaxy games are mediocre (in terms of gameplay, not aesthetics), and think that 3DW is bland, uncreative, and totally uninteresting, by far the worst 3D Mario.
If I compared the number of linear 2D levels in Mario that I loved to the number of linear 3D levels in Mario that I loved, the former would utterly smoke the latter.
If I compared the number of linear 2D levels in Mario that I loved to the number of linear 3D levels in Mario that I loved, the former would utterly smoke the latter.
evilromero
Member
My first exposure was Super Mario Bros on the NES and I bought each sequel after that. Mario 64 is by far the best 3D Mario game imo. Hell, I enjoy it even more than the 2D games and I grew up with those.
So your theory is already out the window. And it's a bad one anyways so don't get too attached to it.
So your theory is already out the window. And it's a bad one anyways so don't get too attached to it.
Schopenhauerian
Member
I was actually hoping to avoid the impression that I was making an argument, but I definitely should have made my point more clear. In that other post, I was just suggesting that for some players, camera placement can contribute to a sense that any given 3D game 'feels' 2D; and accordingly, the relative frequency with which 3DWorld adopts an isometric perspective (compared to other 3D Mario games) might be related to the frequency with which some folks feel compelled to claim that 3DWorld is 'actually' a 2D game.Are you seriously arguing that this is a 2D game?
I personally prefer Galaxy's camera and I'm glad they are doing something like that for the new Mario, but this is not what 2D is. Even Galaxy had more 2D parts than 3D World.
my first Mario game was SMB (then SMB2, 3, SMW, YI ect.) but I still want the 3D games to go back and embrace the more open-ended design of Mario 64 and Sunshine because a) I guess I'm rather nostalgic for the N64 generation, the Banjo-Kazooie games and the likes b) I'm an exploration gamer, having a large interesting game world to discover is more fun to me than running through another set of corridors packed with challenges. I'm more or less done with that sort of gameplay
Nah Galaxy 1 is definitely not an obstacle course aesthetic game. It's relatively easy, because challenge is not the main motivator. Galaxy 2 is lodged somewhere in between when it comes to the gameplay. It has the acrobatics of the expressive 3D style play but the trappings of challenging obstacle courses.
So that's 3.5-1.5 in favor of "3D Mario" aesthetic. It also explains better the fallout with 3D World.
My first exposure was to Mario on the NES, the double cartridge with Duck Hunt. Played every Mario game before 64 and I prefer the 64/Sunshine/Galaxy games alot more.
Once that sense of exploration was introduced in Mario 2 I wanted that alot more.
I have never played 3D World and I just had no desire to play it. And I had a Wii U at launch. Something about that timer and camera view...
lol, agree.
Once that sense of exploration was introduced in Mario 2 I wanted that alot more.
I have never played 3D World and I just had no desire to play it. And I had a Wii U at launch. Something about that timer and camera view...
lol, agree.
Captain Europe
Member
It seems to me that most of the criticism is about the aesthetics, like the camera and the flagpole. I've yet to see any interesting criticism that is more than ''this is 2D, not true 3D, I want a true 3D Mario'', like for example, the majority of the levels being far too easy. You'd expect a place like neogaf to know the difference between 2D and 3D.
Icyflamez96
Member
Well I've only played 3D World and Galaxy, but I prefer 3D World because I like obstacle based 3D platforming, and I don't get enough of that.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
My very first exposure to Mario was with Super Mario Land on the GB. Then SMB, 3 and SMW. I prefer Galaxy and 3D World. I got the N64 with MK64 and my brother bought me Mario 64 for it. And while I enjoyed ít a bit, I never liked it that much.
I still sort of see 3D Land/World as 2.5D Mario. People can perceive that as silly, but the director of 3D Land stated in Iwata's Ask that it was intended to bridge the gap between 2D and 3D Mario in terms of gameplay.
I definitely think 3D Land/World is easier to return to thanks to how focused they are, even if 3D Land's Special Worlds absolutely soured me on the game at first.
I definitely think 3D Land/World is easier to return to thanks to how focused they are, even if 3D Land's Special Worlds absolutely soured me on the game at first.
TheRedSnifit
Member
I'd really hesitate to put Galaxy next to 64 and Sunshine in that regard when the hub world is completely meaningless (64 and Sunshine at least offered something to do in it) and the vast majority of levels of linear, with even the more "open" ones still being one-way trips. In fact, I'm pretty sure that nobody at the time argued that it was a psuedo-open world game like 64/Sunshine, and that people only began saying it was after 3D World.
Galaxy 2 absolutely is not "lodged somewhere in between," it's a straight-up linear platformer. The hub-world is basically non-existant and almost every single level is linear.
I'm not really arguing it's a pseudo open world game, nor is 64 really for that matter, they're essentially playgrounds, not necessarily open worlds. A playground is about self expression and discovery, much less so challenging and or competing with yourself. I thought it quite clear I mentioned the acrobatic style gameplay as a main factor of delineation, not necessarily a pseudo open world, though Galaxy 1 and 64 share with sandbox open world the autonomy to tackle problems, a bit less so Galaxy 2 (though it still features problem solving more than 3D world), much less so 3D world. IMO you keep on engaging with the surface level representation of the game, in which case we might as well agree 3D world is a 3D game because it has 3D polygons.
FunkyDealer
Banned
I really like all the different 3D Marios, but I suppose my favourite is the 64/Galaxy style. My first exposure was Super Mario Bros 1 and 3 on the NES.
NeonZ
Member
To be fair, Sunshine's levels are focused on a single goal too, in spite of being designed around open areas, so they aren't different from Galaxy's open levels in that regard. You've got an open area, but only really one goal. Once you set a shine, aside from the hidden ones, which also exist in Galaxy, there's only one possible goal. Mario 64 is really the only one with open areas that actually gives the player some freedom in how they're handled since all stars are active at all times, if they can be physically reached or aren't tied to some previous event, like a boss not being around anymore.
I see it like this: you could say Galaxy and 3D world are on a spectrum and the only real difference between them is the inclusion of a timer, which feature wise is incredibly minor (surface level interpretation). However, the timer is the crucial bit (one of actually) that flips the purpose of the game around, from mastery of Mario's controls to mastery of the levels. By extension the levels of Galaxy were relatively easy because it was not about them, they served as beautiful backdrops to master Mario in. Same goes for 64. Same doesn't go for 3D World, they nixed many of his acrobatic abilities because they would make the levels easier or otherwise less the focus.
My first 3D Mario was 64 followed shortly by Sunshine. My favourite kind of 3D Mario is the Galaxy kind, where it's mostly linear platforming challenges but occasionally breaks the mold and has some world building with NPCs you can talk to and do tasks for. I really don't think open worlds are a necessity in 3D Mario. Never even got to the end of Sunshine, and 64's stages were pretty small and often very linear.
I was introduced to Mario with the NES trilogy and World on SNES. Since I had no knowledge of Mario 2 being a reason of Doki Doki Panic I really liked the plucking mechanics, the four distinct characters, lack of a timer, and the sort of meandering unique gameplay it had.
So when Mario 64 came out as a kid my mind was totally blown, I've loved that game for years and years! Sunshine was a really cool concept for a sequel, but I think it could have used another year of polish though.
Galaxy is like halfway between 64 and 3D world, and while I love both of those games, galaxy felt like... idk it was sweet but the levels were secretly pretty linear.
Not as open as 64/sunshine, but not as focused as 3D world.
3D world was a cool excersize in turning NSMB into a 3Dish platformer, and it's one of my favorite games ever! Especially with all the callbacks to Mario 2.
I really liked 3D world, but I prefer the more distinctly different gameplay that 64/Sunshine/Galaxy bring
64 is probably my favorite of them though, really athletic Mario jumping, punching, and kicking his way through cool playgrounds
So when Mario 64 came out as a kid my mind was totally blown, I've loved that game for years and years! Sunshine was a really cool concept for a sequel, but I think it could have used another year of polish though.
Galaxy is like halfway between 64 and 3D world, and while I love both of those games, galaxy felt like... idk it was sweet but the levels were secretly pretty linear.
Not as open as 64/sunshine, but not as focused as 3D world.
3D world was a cool excersize in turning NSMB into a 3Dish platformer, and it's one of my favorite games ever! Especially with all the callbacks to Mario 2.
I really liked 3D world, but I prefer the more distinctly different gameplay that 64/Sunshine/Galaxy bring
64 is probably my favorite of them though, really athletic Mario jumping, punching, and kicking his way through cool playgrounds
TheRedSnifit
Member
So if 3D World had a triple jump/etc. it'd be a real 3D game or whatever?
Sunshine still has blue coins and the obligatory 100-coin challenge, amongst other things. The levels are also huge. Koizumi himself stated that he feels it's more consistent with the concept of an open-world than the other games.
megarockexe
Member
Super Mario 64 was my first video game, I'm sure. I was probably 6. I went back and played the 2D games though. I enjoyed Super Mario World. Galaxy 2 is also fantastic. A true refinement of the genre.
It would certainly nudge it closer on the spectrum. That's why just a few seconds of a triple jump in the Mario Switch trailer was enough for some people. Equally important I guess is removing the timer so that open ended play doesn't get punished, and open playing fields with frivolous interaction possibilities, as well as puzzles and weird suits would seal the deal. Obviously 3D World has some of these, so it's not a clear cut case. I wouldn't say the people who say 3D world is a real 3D Mario are wrong per se, I just think the people who say it isn't a 3D Mario game are right
.I loathe the way green stars are used in 3D World. They're hidden throughout levels like star coins in NSMB1 and feel 100% optional but they're not. You need them to progress at certain points. I hate that so much. I beat the fucking level! Let me continue! Don't make me go back to old levels that are exactly the same as before! This game is not a fucking collectathon! At least in Galaxy the levels are DIFFERENT when you go back to them! In 3D World, it's exactly the same!
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
It's angles and sequences like this where I'm not so sure we should be jumping to Mario Switch being more similar to 64 than 3D World.Are you seriously arguing that this is a 2D game?
I personally prefer Galaxy's camera and I'm glad they are doing something like that for the new Mario, but this is not what 2D is. Even Galaxy had more 2D parts than 3D World.
What if it's a combination of the two? So something like 3D World's level design with 64's maneuverability.
LordKasual
Banned
SM3D World was probably one of the most fun games i had played in 2013. So, whatever that is.
It's pretty much the perfect 3D Mario game. It was graphically beautiful, it was a great balance between 2D design and 3D design, the powerups were fun to use, and it supported a multiplayer format that not only worked, but added an element to a Mario game that resulted in the most fun i've ever had in a Mario game, hands down.
Wouldn't mind if they ditched Galaxy's style for this one. Especially if they can't find a way to implement a similar multiplayer dynamic. Playing SM3D world with people who are good at platformers is an absolute blast.
It's pretty much the perfect 3D Mario game. It was graphically beautiful, it was a great balance between 2D design and 3D design, the powerups were fun to use, and it supported a multiplayer format that not only worked, but added an element to a Mario game that resulted in the most fun i've ever had in a Mario game, hands down.
Wouldn't mind if they ditched Galaxy's style for this one. Especially if they can't find a way to implement a similar multiplayer dynamic. Playing SM3D world with people who are good at platformers is an absolute blast.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
NeonZ
Member
One of the two segments in the the brief Switch video shows something that pretty much doesn't exist in 3d World though - those uniquely designed buildings forming a small desert town of sorts. Something like that seems counter intuitive if Mario were just going to run past them a few seconds later.
DerekOfTheDykes
Member
Honestly, I started back in the day with good old Super Mario 64 (EDIT: For 3D Marios specifically), and I have a hard time WANTING to rank the 3D Mario games. Even the worst of them (I guess Sunshine, even though I have very fond memories of it) is amazing.
If I had to narrow down at all, I'll admit that I prefer the semi-structured grand levels of the Galaxy games above the more open areas of 64/Sunshine and the 2d sensibilities of 3D Land/World.
But even then, I want to make it clear that I absolutely love 3D Land/World, and I DO consider them "true" 3D Mario games. I can't stand the "No True 3D Mario" silliness some people use to try and not count them as part of the series.
If I had to narrow down at all, I'll admit that I prefer the semi-structured grand levels of the Galaxy games above the more open areas of 64/Sunshine and the 2d sensibilities of 3D Land/World.
But even then, I want to make it clear that I absolutely love 3D Land/World, and I DO consider them "true" 3D Mario games. I can't stand the "No True 3D Mario" silliness some people use to try and not count them as part of the series.
Poimandres
Member
Started on the NES, and favourite 3D game is Galaxy. 3D World was pretty underwhelming for me.
A survey of this thread shows that preferences and first game one played aren't really correlated at all.
A survey of this thread shows that preferences and first game one played aren't really correlated at all.