II-Vanguard-II
Member
No it's not it. i meant he had nothing on me to push with. the fact that i voted on style with my first post in the game means i can't be scum(or not a very good one at that).
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Persona Mafia |OT| Memento Mori
- Thread starter CrimsonFist
- Start date
Can you share why do you think one of them is scum? I leaning town with both of them. They participated a lot throughout the game, gave a lot of reads and have talked about every subject. The only problem I see is that they seem to eager to please, but I can see a rookie player doing that.
II-Vanguard-II
Member
not taking credit but why would i RNG vote a PR teammate(on my first post), plus style went for soarian because sorian was after me(for no reason) style thought it'll help him win favors, obviously it didn't.
Matt Attack
Member
RNG doesn't care if it's your teammate or not, and that's assuming it even was RNG. It's not uncommon for scummates to vote for each other to distance themselves, who's to say you couldn't have done the same thing with Style using RNG as your reasoning?
II-Vanguard-II
Member
If i were scum i would have known style was may teammate it's not like i type a command to vote RNG so i'll be forced to if i were scum i would try to protect a teammate with powers not paint a bullseye on their back, so i would roll again and use that.
Scum can vote for scum really easily to gain town credit. I did an even worse thing in AC where I claimed cop and gave town one of my partners to gain major town credit. You even stated that your vote was because RNG and never had any important discussion with Style.
That soft roleclaim and later denial reeks scum really bad. I would totally vote for you right now, but I can't.
Matt Attack
Member
No, I understand your point. I just don't think it's going to be that easy to clear yourself. If I were scum and wanted to place a vote on my scum teammate with the least amount of reasoning possible, saying that it was RNG would be the ideal choice. Would it be unconventional for you to pretend RNG vote your scum ally? Yes, but after seeing the mystifying nature of Style's scum play, unconventional is a little easier to buy into. It is possible that you really are town and you really did RNG Style and vote for him as a result. But your vote does not even come close to clearing you as a townie, just because Style flipped scum.
Here is the RNG vote of Vanguard:
He voted for Style by RNG (so no justification), Sorian called him out and Style came to his rescue. There was never a hard push for Vanguard, neither was a at least minimal defense from Style. It seems really fabricated.
Later Vanguard did a really light push for Style, but it was after he made his mistake and was at the top of everyone scum list.
He voted for Style by RNG (so no justification), Sorian called him out and Style came to his rescue. There was never a hard push for Vanguard, neither was a at least minimal defense from Style. It seems really fabricated.
Later Vanguard did a really light push for Style, but it was after he made his mistake and was at the top of everyone scum list.
flatearthpandas
Member
Not working tomorrow so I'll post a breakdown. The reason to inspect these two is easy though. I keep spreadsheets of all the games i play. D1 scum is usually spread out among vote candidates with one out in bumfuck. You get a bit more concentration when a scum is up for d1 vote but they have enough people to keep several candidates open for the lynch. PK was the other one open for the lynch. We have two on machina already. I believe there was at least one who jumped to exodu5 for some town points. But i think the third candidate likely had scum as well. PK had a tough spot. We know most of three who contributed to that were town. But the ones we had keeping on, keeping him relevant, were plop and natiko. He's the most likely for the swing and the early votes that don't budge are prime spots for scum to keep candidates in the game for lynching. No one besides exodu5, style, machina, and pk had any real push d1. I think there was scum waiting on pk then. Which leaves only two people.
Flux had pk in candidacy still, hyper gave people the chance as an alternative at the end of the day but it didn't take. Maybe plop and natiko are both town. But that means the last scum was doing nothing useful at all when there was a threat d1. And whoever they were sitting on had no push. I think the chances are good one of them are scum. Like i said, I'll post break tomorrow.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
That is absolutely not the case at all. I've played games as scum where my teammates bused me hard from the beginning in order to obtain town points.
Do you have anything concrete for us? Otherwise you're at the top of my list.
I have nothing on you to push with?
Well let's see -
Day1:
*You "RNG" vote for Style in post 113.
*The nature of your vote for Style is called into question by Sorian in posts 117 and 121.
*Style defends your "RNG" vote in post 119.
*Sorian votes for you in post 140 and connects Style's defense to you as well.
*TheExodu5 even discusses Style as being one of his bigger concerns in post 253 (but scum would never call out scum).
*Style votes for you at post 157 then unvoted at post 391 because it was a "stupid vote" and he doesn't want to "pile on" despite you only being at three total votes, him being the second.
*Sorian even calls you out specifically as one potential scum player sitting amidst the natural votes for Style in post 402.
*TheExodu5 casts a vote for Style (again, no way scum goes after scum though) in post 527.
*Sorian point she out TheExodu5 using the term bus in post 544, this is the point where things take a turn for TheExodu5.
*TheExodu5 agrees you seem suspect (same he did to Style) but in the same post comes to your defense in posts 557. Calls Sorian's logic "puzzling".
*TheExodu5 walks back some on Style and also further defends you in post 597. Says Sorian is "grasping at straws". At this point he is likely scaling back his attack on teammates because he knows he fucked up and doesn't want to lead to you all getting lynched in a row.
*TheExodu5 doubles down on you and Style in post 648, defending you both again and attacking Sorian's claims.
*You stand by your Style vote in post 817 and seem content for the moment but that won't last will it?
*TheExodu5 makes his push and votes for exmachina in post 819. While doing so he goes to bat for you yet again saying he's "not feeling" your lynch.
*One post later in 820 you chirp out that you would also vote exmachina despite how content you seemed just moments before.
*Two more votes are cast on TheExodu5 prompting Vanguard to now switch off of his "hard push" for Style and vote exmachina to try and save now confirmed scum TheExodu5 in post 867. Exmachina is somehow his "only other read".
*Sorian points out that Vanguard, Style, and TheExodu5 appear to be connected in several posts like 615, 620. Then in post 915 he connects all three of you based on evidence I've included above.
*At day end all three of you are sitting on the exmachina votes, making up most of the push for him.
Day 2:
*Vanguard casts his vote for Style in post 1299. He is the sixth person on the vote. He does not give in-depth reasoning or follow this up at all before day end.
Day 3:
*I cast my vote for Vanguard today in post 1509. Point out you have not contributed at all and I already suspected you over the above reasons and have stated so several times.
*Vanguard finally makes his first posts of this day phase in posts 1542, 1544, 1546, 1551, 1553, and 1555 all to make the argument that he went hard after Style day one (via a supposed RNG vote), played a major hand in Style's lynch day 2 (via one post where he wasn't even in the first half of the votes), claim that scum would not paint a target on scum (as if a single RNG vote is much of a target), that scum would not hurt a fellow scum teammate (refuted by franconp from previous games and my own above examples from THIS game), and paint me as scum despite your own abandoned vote on Style in an attempt to tip the scales away from TheExodu5 by voting on exmachina.
Your argument is weak and the fact that you were completely quiet for the day until it was time to defend yourself then there was a flurry of activity is suspicious. The fact that your defense of yourself was weak and primarily you chose to instead attack me over my vote is even weaker.
I stand by my vote.
I would like to point out that Flux and Ty, two confirmed Town also put votes on PK. PK seemed pretty suspect early on with the complete inactivity followed by posting a ton. I wasn't the only one concerned by it. I wasn't around for day end or I would have moved my vote to TheExodu5 (check my reads, he was one of my early suspects too and not just using the same reasoning as Sorian to copycat him). I really don't know if scum was in the PK vote because we already disagree on the dispersion of them in the day one vote (I clearly just argued three were on exmachina). I think your argument assumes a well organized scum team but in fact from what we've seen they seem to have been scrambling a lot due to early missteps. I can see your point of view but I know I'm not scum and I don't have a strong suspicion of plop currently, though I wouldn't say they're for sure Town either. I would put you as Town with me before plop primarily because you cast the first shots on TheExodu5.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
I've already mentioned it, but I'd like to reiterate the fact that I was eyeing TheExodu5 as scum before he had more than a single vote against him (and not just for a weak reason):
At this point, only you had voted against TheExodu5 (which is why I have you as town so far), and six votes were sitting against Style (which wasn't a bad thing, in retrospect).
At the end of Day One, I possibly would have joined in the vote against TheExodu5 to push it over the edge (since the vote was balanced between Exodu5 and exmachina64 at the time, and I had no scum reads on exmachina64) but I was at work when that went down. I'm a paramedic (in real life...not claiming a role here). Hours are hectic, and depending on how many people are dying at a given time, I can go from totally bored and able to post whenever to swamped with calls and not able to post for a long ass time.
So I was vocal about my suspicion of TheExod5 and outright salivating for a Style lynch during Day Two. If I'm scum, I'm the back-stabbingest scum who's ever played the game.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Not to pivot away from discussing me (because anyone is free to add whatever they'd like), but this just reads as a fairly weak attempt to smear someone as scum. Natiko didn't seem to be pushing away from a lynch on Style at any point. He was just asking that we not rush into it and instead dig for more clues so time isn't wasted. Could he have been trying to buy Style time? Sure. But reading what he wrote, he seemed pretty damn sure of the inevitability of Style's demise.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Hey, was that necessary?
I wasn't copycatting Sorian. I'm learning this on the fly, and when he pointed out that TheExodu5 had used a term that scum use, it smacked me in the forehead. Then, TheExodu5's next post where he tried to use "bus" in normal conversation just stunk of a lame coverup.
I actually didn't know what you had or hadn't said on the topic. I just said that because I figured that's what most would assume. I came to my conclusion on TheExodu5 because his read list seemed very suspect to me after he posted it.Hey, was that necessary?
I wasn't copycatting Sorian. I'm learning this on the fly, and when he pointed out that TheExodu5 had used a term that scum use, it smacked me in the forehead. Then, TheExodu5's next post where he tried to use "bus" in normal conversation just stunk of a lame coverup.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Yeah, at the time, I didn't really know what to look for when trying to make reads, so I kinda just jumped on the train of someone who looked knowledgeable.
That's not to say I'm a reading expert now, but I at least feel slightly more comfortable with trying.
Okay, let's discuss top scum reads since thread is slowly dying.
There's scum in:
StarSketch-Yes
WAMD-Hmmm, just a gut feeling for now, though on the condition of SK being scum, mighty suspect
PK-Just very suspect, if he had Sorian's PR I'd understand since he'd be more open to...alliances, but he strikes me as off in a trying to be inoffensive way.
I would bet my left nut.
There's scum in:
StarSketch-Yes
WAMD-Hmmm, just a gut feeling for now, though on the condition of SK being scum, mighty suspect
PK-Just very suspect, if he had Sorian's PR I'd understand since he'd be more open to...alliances, but he strikes me as off in a trying to be inoffensive way.
I would bet my left nut.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
All three reads boil down to gut feelings. Gut feelings you're willing to bet your testicle on.
Any particular posts from these folks that give your gut those feelings?
Yes, otherwise I wouldn't mention them.
StarSketch
Banned
Eh? I was NK'd in PW, just way later than I should have been, hence the above. Unless you mean Pokemon, in which I had to cover for Sophia's failed claim and failed spectacularly.
....
Just for the record, yes I feel perfectly fine betting one testicle, it happens. No, I'm not going to expand on why Star is scummy, that's a disingenuous expectation of you've playing the game. I'll follow a PK post afterwards.
Batter up, we've got a town reading for Style and PK (and Star too!) and oddly enough, her first substantive post has a defense of all three of them. Perfectly normal perhaps, given the benefit of just reading to that point WAMD seems...well, okay, if not null. This post doesn't send any warning bells because it's a good post.
Hm. Well then, conflating effort and inactivity doesn't seem so good does it? It's at this point that a nagging feeling in my head said 'Well, why such a staunch defense for Star?'. It was only an observation but returning to her above post, it's very worrying.
Hmm. Okay, that's a perfectly valid criticism if you omit two or three lines which are factually incorrect. Now at this point I'm wondering where is this coming from? Reason? Can't be, because it's obviously a spur of the moment shade dropping? Why the shade though? Let's deduce this. I'm very wary of SS and PK, the former because of their posting and the latter because of their irrational defense. WAMD does seem exceedingly concerned with SS's innocence though, I'd even go so far as to say 1/2 of her substantive posts has SS somewhere in it. Then what's the connection? Where's the lynchpin?
Something's going on. Even my parents wouldn't go out their way for me this much. Giving credence to a person's role claim, their role claim turned up tracker(?), where you at Dragonz? Why haven't we heard about this from you, since as evidenced, you're obviously interested.
I want to add that I have thought through the question of SS being framed, and came to the conclusion that I could see:
1
*Scum SS
*Scum WAMD
*Scum PK
2
*Town SS
*Scum WAMD
*Scut PK
Where SS just has the power of appearing scummy, and PK and WAMD mount a defense for town cred.
1
*Scum SS
*Scum WAMD
*Scum PK
2
*Town SS
*Scum WAMD
*Scut PK
Where SS just has the power of appearing scummy, and PK and WAMD mount a defense for town cred.
At the top of my scum list is Vanguard. I already said why.
I'm leaning scum with StarSketch because she didn't died after the roleclaim but I don't like the idea of lynching her before she uses her powers. That way, if she really is town, we can get some info. If she don't use her power this night phase she has to go.
Zipped entered my leaning scum team because todays post. I don't have a problem with the PK partnership thing, it's a theory and I'm fine with it, but I didn't liked how he fucked up with my votes on the first day and, mostly, how I didn't talked about Style the first day. He seemed to eager to throw dirt on me.
And speaking of throwing dirt on me I'm still not fond with Hyper, he lied several times and make a lot of assumpions based on very little info. Also he dropping off the map and making just a couple of post since day's start is worrying.
I'm leaning scum with StarSketch because she didn't died after the roleclaim but I don't like the idea of lynching her before she uses her powers. That way, if she really is town, we can get some info. If she don't use her power this night phase she has to go.
Zipped entered my leaning scum team because todays post. I don't have a problem with the PK partnership thing, it's a theory and I'm fine with it, but I didn't liked how he fucked up with my votes on the first day and, mostly, how I didn't talked about Style the first day. He seemed to eager to throw dirt on me.
And speaking of throwing dirt on me I'm still not fond with Hyper, he lied several times and make a lot of assumpions based on very little info. Also he dropping off the map and making just a couple of post since day's start is worrying.
I've never wished for Flux quite as much as I do right now. PK pt.1
Classic PK, classic set up. Allows one to use their 'experiences' to retreat and advance, and when called out on it can just say 'lol fine print'. Fair enough, this has no bearing on alignment.
...Sorian I can see, maybe Flux since he was posting consistently and driving conversation, why shoehorn Exodus in there though? What's the deal? Hmmmmmm
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, we already addressed this but what an odd point to make, especially when just above PK was talking about making calculated, analytical moves. What about this is analytical? I don't know, however I see the calculating.
Then proceeds to unvote Style to an 'ENTRAPMENT' reason for why he won't get back on.
Fair enough, day 1 is slow so I can see where people might not know where to jump on in. I can see that...but is this chance or calculation...I'm just joking, this is a fair point.
...Why does this seem so fabricated now? Probably because I know Style is scum.
Uh huh, yes, because that would make you more suspicious, not when, you know, Style flips scum.
Oh how the good go first. If only, if only...
Hmmmmmmm, okay, I'll tentatively take your word for it, even though your game plan said otherwise.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I literally have no idea what point you're trying to make here.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
If you're trying to say that I'm defending Star or something cause we're scum buds, I would hope that you'd give me SOME credit as a regular GAFia player that I wouldn't be that obvious.
All I've been giving you guys are gut reads. I'm vanilla town and I don't know shit for sure.
All I've been giving you guys are gut reads. I'm vanilla town and I don't know shit for sure.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Also third post and sorry for this...but I wanted to apologize for being aggressive or abrasive in this game. My life sucks and I have a bad habit of taking my personal shit out on people. It is in no way, shape, or form an indication of any of you, and it's entirely my fault.
exmachina64
Banned
It's an amusing...coincidence...that PK Gaming referenced the Arcana that comprises StarSketch's PR.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Dont worry too much about it.
Okay on the topic of Star im still leaning town with her im not nearly getting as many scum vibes from her when i compare her role call and overall behaviour to Style's. Like the only thing that for me stands out a bit is not using her power.
exmachina64
Banned
Let's say that if PK were to know this somehow, it increases my suspicion of both of them.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
I was thinking that too.
The only thing that made me not jump on it was PK referencing "real life," making me think they know each other and she discussed her role PM with PK after getting it.
Not sure on that tho.
Let's hope not. I don't know if it's agains the rules but I don't think it's a good thing. It kills the objetive of the game.
exmachina64
Banned
Pretty sure it is against the rules.
StarSketch
Banned
PK's referring to the fact that we both frequent the same thread on GAF, as well as an IRC. Sharing PMs is against the rules (Or at least should be)
flatearthpandas
Member
Oh really? Did mean PW. I remember you misreading your role or something and people noticing the claim didn't make sense even though it ended up you were town. Maybe I'm thinking of a different game but definitely not poke.
That's kind of the thing. We can confirm a lot of people on that vote were town. So we're left with just the two of you hanging on and keeping him as a target. I was a bit iffy on flux because he was eager to jump when hyper gave the option, but obviously we know he wasn't scum.
Eyeing people is cheap. If scum aren't throwing shade at each other town will notice. We already have people pointing out which people seem to avoid talking about each other. Should have would have could have voted is also nothing. I missed both day ends because of time zone so i definitely understand, but doesn't change. The votes are the votes. As for d2, it was a foregone conclusion. As Matt said, i find the site salivation more scummy than those who put any argument against it because it was so clearly going to happen. In that situation, town wants to talk and make use of the day. Scum wants to push the obvious lynch, get cred for lynching scum, and lock conversation down.
Now, i could be mistaken. Both natiko and plop could be town, sure. We saw scum did have to do a small pile to try and save exodu5. The question is how big of a pile do you think there was? Do we think the whole scum team is lined up for us on machina d1 vote? If not, where do you think they are? They don't have to be a well oiled machine but don't think they aren't all voting conscious of their teammates' positions. This is how we find them. They don't want to be associated but there are patterns to them nonetheless.
So let's just pretend for a few hours that there is scum on pk. Who is it?
Who is it what? His partners?
flatearthpandas
Member
What? Who is it: natiko or plop? I'm asking everyone to really scrutinize. Logically, we have a decent chance of a scumlord. They're both doing pretty decent at appearing town and may in fact be. The question is, if you had to finger one of them as scum, who would it be?
And hyper, what the fuck are you doing? Let's see some life, hombre.
I pointed out my concerns about PK a few times throughout day one. I legitimately felt he was the biggest suspect at the time. The way he went from barely posting after the game start (few of which were noteworthy) to posting a ton once I pointed out my initial concerns just made it even stronger for me. If you really think that was some calculated move and that none of my actions have been genuine all because I voted for PK over what I felt were legitimate concerns and then was busy at work for day end there isn't much I can do to change your mind. I have been legitimately trying to contribute and locate scum. Even at times of lulls or when the Style lynch was obvious I pushed for discussion to keep going on.
Note that you said this and I most certainly have not done so.
Obviously in this situation I would say plop. I don't have a strong read on him, I would say null or leaning town but honestly I would have to go through his posts more thoroughly again. I'm really not sure at this point who I would name as fourth and maybe fifth scum. BlackBuzzard was higher on my list but I've cooled on that some going back through older posts. Hyper I had cooled on but that's increasing again due to how little he is saying suddenly. I'll have to think on it some more to name who I would put as my top suspects besides Vanguard who I strongly, strongly suspect and SS because I still find the idea that she hasn't used her PR fishy. The only thing holding her back some is I feel if she were scum she probably would've said she had used it and that nothing of note happened. Though I suppose that could be a really risky gambit.
Between both of them? I'm leaning plop. Plop started better but lately seems more eager to please. Natiko seems a stronger town player now. The post on Vanguard was quite good. I still don't think either of them are scum.
I think someone on Exodus may be scum. Town credit is a big thing.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
So does this at all answer for how PK was able to name Star's supposed power role Arcana thingy?
For that matter, did we ever clear up why a claimed PR townie wasn't lynched last night?
StarSketch
Banned
Because for the 99 millionth time, I suck at this game. A lot. Why waste a kill on me when you could just kill someone more important to town (I.E Flux) and just let me kill myself.
StarSketch
Banned
As for the PK thing, my role is not "Yukiko." It's Priestess. In fact my ability lines up with Fuuka, not her.
But PK knows why I run around Gaf with Yukiko avatars. Cause I'm a giant ditz. :|
But PK knows why I run around Gaf with Yukiko avatars. Cause I'm a giant ditz. :|
...a very compelling argument that basically amounts to "What's the point of killing me when everybody thinks I'm scum? That guy over there though, that guy is scum, kill that guy'
StarSketch
Banned
¯\_(ツ
_/¯Hey, Natiko, what's up with this? Mostly just curious about why you thought francomp was a better target than Flux.
flatearthpandas
Member
Yo, star. Verelios.
Let's get some plop and natiko reads.
There's some logic in start being alive, kind of. Flux was a word choice but there is logic there. Style called him out as being a pr and he never really denied it. Kind of crafty, really.
Let's get some plop and natiko reads.
There's some logic in start being alive, kind of. Flux was a word choice but there is logic there. Style called him out as being a pr and he never really denied it. Kind of crafty, really.
It's cool man. I know what it's like to let your emotions get the best of you, so don't take it too hard.
You need to get your eyes checked, chief. I explicitly said she acts like Yukiko, not The Priestess. Yukiko = / = Priestess. The fact that Yukiko is of the Prietess arcana is coincidence.
You think? You think? I've already said we know each other. And no, i'm not stupid or scummy enough to flagrantly break the rules like that.
I made a pretty basic prediction and was 100% on point about it.
I'm pretty sure Hyper and franconp are our biggest contributors. They went after Sorian night one, out original biggest contributor. I just figured they would continue on that path. Part of me wonders if they weren't skipped for reasons. At the time we were discussing franconp's PMs that night so I wasn't sure if those somehow factored into it. I've also been pretty clear of my concern about Hyper at times so if he was scum that would explain why he wasn't hit.
