Yup, 10 years.
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Scalebound cancelled [Platinum Games and Kamiya have commented]
- Thread starter SteveO409
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gundamkyoukai
Member
I don't think niche titles matter to big companies .
To platform holder that is whole other ball game.
Even more so when your talking about a WW company like Sony .
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Random games? Popular exclusives and the fact Bloodborne doesn't hold up is entirely the point and why your arguement falls apart. If Titanfall didn't move the needle why on earth and you even thinking Bloodborne would? Keep in mind it sold that amount on a more popular console and Titanfall on a less.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Platinum has trouble shipping games on time? Thats news to everyone here.
onemanasylum
Banned
Quite an assumption, the hype for TF was immense who knows how x1 would have did without it? It did very well it's launch month considering x1 was 499 at the time. Good chance it did move the needle quite a bit.
Even the Titanfall Beta moved the needle quite a bit.
It wasn't a reversal of fortune that undid everything, but I think a bit perspective is needed when saying that it didn't even move the needle.
Wait, what?? You lost me here.
Weltall Zero
Member
Today I learned: a game that sells 2 million copies is considered "niche as fuck".
"Hyperbole is the mind killer" indeed.
I dunno. Pro seems limited on the RAM / CPU area, so a successor that's FC/BC with it will be limited by it too. of course we don't know the scorpio specs but a lot of rumors said 12gb opposed to the 8gb on the current consoles so. assuming that I believe a continuous generation on the Xbox side looks way more factible and reasonable
could be wrong
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Not to the degree that it stopped PS4 doubling XB1's sales. Which is the needle movement MS cares about for as much as it did. It did not change MS fortunes world wide or substantially close the gap. Yet we have people making the completely illogical assumption BB would
Mr. Blonde
Member
Please tell me this isn't true
Reckheim
Member
2 million copies for a game in a series that usually doesn't sell that much (and on a single platform).
Sony probably didn't even expect those type of numbers.
gundamkyoukai
Member
You really think TF1 did not move the needle.
It had one of the biggest opening months in sales .
There is a very good chance it sold a lot of consoles to people .
Nintendo doesn't need that much new IPs. They have Animal Crossing, Pokemon, 3D Mario, Fire Emblem, Mario Kart, Zelda and Smash Bros.
All vastly different, successful IPs that move consoles.
Microsoft doesn't have that. Their biggest IPs on their console are Gears, Halo and Forza. Two shooters and a racer. They need more stuff like Dead Rising.
onemanasylum
Banned
Huh? Sony can easily increase ram in their next console and keep FC/BC, MS is not a special flower, sony is a hardware company and I believe have stated they are also moving to a FC/BC future. There is nothing stopping sony from also doing this, ms has the same hurdles. How is it more "Feasible" for MS?
NoHeDidn't
Member
What...you haven't seen the flags at half staff today?
Maybe there used to be value, but in today's consolidated market and bigger gap between the small scale and mainstream, it's very hard to see the relevance of niche titles in platform holder portfolio. Now, I admit that I could be wrong, but I've also worked in the industry enough to have most of my illusions of what I would like the industry be and work like destroyed.
RichiRamjag
Member
X1 exclusives (halo) is the only reason I brought the system. Since I've already got the system, I've subbed to ea access, brought old BC games and more. Without that single exclusive, I wouldn't have wasted my time. Not sure why folks are so quick to downplay the power of an exclusive experience.
ronaldthump
Member
pretty sure you can now cross Gears off that list...
tiredheadcrab
Member
Have they said this? I don't remember them saying this at all. PS4 pro is in the PS4 family it seems. Xbox one and Xbox Scorpio are going under a Xbox umbrella similar to iOS devices.
Do you have any quotes on this? I am almost sure Sony said they weren't doing this unless I'm mistaken. Even Cerny criticized forwards compatibility because of changing architectures.
Magic Mushroom
Member
It sold that very early in its life, it's well past that now. But you're right, Bloodborbe isn't niche at all.
I think without TF Xbox One would be a hell of a lot worse off than it is now.
onemanasylum
Banned
I definitely agree, it did a lot for the x1 early on.
gundamkyoukai
Member
First i would have to understand what you call niche .
We'll get another Gears.
The budget may be a lot smaller, but they spent too much on that IP to pack it in completely.
BakedTanooki
Member
I'm sad about the cancelation.
Even if the demos / presentations weren't that exciting, i still believed in the game and was hyped for it.
I mean, it was a damn Hideki Kamiya game. His dream game even (it was, wasn't it?).
Even if the demos / presentations weren't that exciting, i still believed in the game and was hyped for it.
I mean, it was a damn Hideki Kamiya game. His dream game even (it was, wasn't it?).
Sony has made comments suggesting that they still like the idea of traditional generations. Some have taken this to mean there won't be BC going forward, but that's jumping to conclusions IMO.
the fact is we have no idea if Sony wants to do an explicit cut off/reset with next gen. nothing Sony has said rules out the same approach that Microsoft has described
At the time of pitch, yeah.
Gear of War?
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Kotor didn't help XB outsell the PS2 it doesn't even help your arguement ot being anything new which is why I didn't bother with it. UC4 would have sold just fine without Bloodborne it is current PS closely linked flagship franchise by it's flagship studio. It's Sony'a Mario/kart or derivative with Last of US being another. You have not even remotely explained how BB would magically change XB1 fortunes when games that sold better and had greater impact did not.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I mean i really don't understand why people would think that .
Even if Sony sticks to normal gens i think BC is a given .
3 of there systems had BC in them .
What is the overall point you want to get across here?
Nothing would've changed the fortune of the Xbone because they fucked it up by neglecting the enthusiast audience in the twilight years of the 360 and then colossally fucking up the unveil and basic design of what a games console should've been?
You seem to want some silver bullet that can easily be slotted in to make all missteps go away.
Fire Emblem was niche before it had a turnaround on 3DS and started selling consoles. Animal Crossing was never as big as on 3DS. Splatoon was a niche game on a niche console. Bloodborne sold better than anything on Xbox One sans Halo 5.
There is a value to niche games.
onemanasylum
Banned
Exactly, pretty sure sony is going to stick with BC going forward, ps3 is an outlier due to cell and it's innards.
The PS5 is guaranteed BC with PS4 but Mark Cerny put it crystal clear just before the holidays that traditional console generation shifts is a Good thing and healthy for the industry.
I'm expecting a generational leap in 2019 but with two or more console increments within that gen stretching it to 9 year+ (Zen cpu's has caught up with desktop PC's and it has been stagnant since 2011).
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Largely because exclusives themselves barely sell this gen outside of a few notable exceptions it's why things like exclusive Destiny DLC, and COD partnerships mattered so much early on. 3rd parties multiplatform games have largely supplanted them. It's more about the best play to play those these days (now it's mostly inertia though).
I can't blame people for being wary really, especially with how Sony has handled PS2 classics on PS4, and the lack of PS1 stuff on PS4.
I just don't think Sony is stupid enough to render everyone's digital library useless for yet another generation
where I could see Sony and Microsoft's strategy diverging is in forward compatibility. I don't think PS5 games will work on PS4 but I think games for Scorpio 2 will work on Scorpio
onemanasylum
Banned
Yeah but Gens don't mean no BC...pretty sure that's the goal moving forward. With the big digital audience it is clear that's the way everything is going.
tiredheadcrab
Member
My issue is when they announced the Pro Cerny was very specific when discussing how they created the hardware to be exactly like the regular PS4 otherwise games would break. This has something to do with the development tools targeting the hardware directly I assume.
Maybe somebody with more technical expertise can explain how BC would work on PS5.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Splatoon was never niche by any definition of the word. It was new but that's about all you can say.
Bitch Pudding
Member
I agree. I don't know where it will come from, maybe Scorpio if it's sold at a decent price. But sure as hell not from their 2017 line up unless they secretly money-hatted a Rockstar Game.
I mean, GAF is GAF and our perception is certainly not representative, but man, that Most anticipated games of 2017 result is a real eye-opener. When your best exclusive title failes to enter the top 25 of such a list (and turns out to be an indie game, so not even one from your own studios) something is definitly not going according to keikaku.
I agree, 100%. However, I still believe it to be unfair to compare sales figures of a brand new "niche" IP to well established Nintendo franchises that have been around since the 80s/90s.
Weltall Zero
Member
Ignore this.
Anecdote Warning:
I have an XBox One, but this has pretty much killed the chances of me upgrading to a Scorpio. Not in the sense of this one game, but as part of a pattern where Microsoft has failed to deliver games that fall outside of their main tent-pole franchises.
I have no reason to believe that there is going to be anything coming to the Scorpio exclusively that I want to play. As for cross platform being better than PS4 versions, so what? If I get to the point where I'm bothered by the performance gap, I'd be better off building a decent PC. The only thing that would induce me to buy a Scorpio would be if there were games that I want to play on it that are only available for it. If Microsoft is going to axe every remotely interesting title after protracted and frankly embarrassing development processes and leave nothing on their release calendar but a racing game and a pair of dude-bro shooters, what possible reason would I have to buy the system?
At this point Microsoft has established a pattern of behavior that undermines any promise they might make about diversifying their library. You can argue about the effect of niche games on sales, but if entire genres are going unrepresented on a console, it shouldn't be surprising if fans of those genres don't feel the need to bite.
I have an XBox One, but this has pretty much killed the chances of me upgrading to a Scorpio. Not in the sense of this one game, but as part of a pattern where Microsoft has failed to deliver games that fall outside of their main tent-pole franchises.
I have no reason to believe that there is going to be anything coming to the Scorpio exclusively that I want to play. As for cross platform being better than PS4 versions, so what? If I get to the point where I'm bothered by the performance gap, I'd be better off building a decent PC. The only thing that would induce me to buy a Scorpio would be if there were games that I want to play on it that are only available for it. If Microsoft is going to axe every remotely interesting title after protracted and frankly embarrassing development processes and leave nothing on their release calendar but a racing game and a pair of dude-bro shooters, what possible reason would I have to buy the system?
At this point Microsoft has established a pattern of behavior that undermines any promise they might make about diversifying their library. You can argue about the effect of niche games on sales, but if entire genres are going unrepresented on a console, it shouldn't be surprising if fans of those genres don't feel the need to bite.
the fact that all non patched PS4 games work with no issues on the Pro should help reduce your fear for BC in the future IMO. I think you're thinking about it the wrong way. a hypothetical PS5 scenario would be very similar, it will play PS4 games but with no enhancements unless specifically patched to take advantage of it
This whole Scalebound cancelation has really soured me on Scorpio.
The PS4 Pro never really appealed to me based on what was known about Scorpio, but I absolutely had ideas that Scalebound was going to be one of the games that really showed off the power of the system...
You need games on your system...
Phil Spencer talked about how he didn't want to money hat 3rd party exclusives to focus on the 1st party portfolio... And then he goes and cancels Scalebound???
This doesn't make sense to me.
Say what you will about whether or not Scalebound was going to sell well or not, the perception crater this cancellation has left is huge. And I don't see Microsoft running in to fill the crater in.
They absolutely can not wait till E3 to change this perception problem.
They need to do something yesterday to show they have more than Halo, Gears, and Forza lined up for this year for Scorpio or I don't see it being the success they need.
They absolutely cannot rest on the idea that they'll have the most powerful 3rd party content machine when so much 3rd party content seems to be defaulting to Sony's ecosystem only (Nier, Star Ocean, FFVII remake etc.)
The PS4 Pro never really appealed to me based on what was known about Scorpio, but I absolutely had ideas that Scalebound was going to be one of the games that really showed off the power of the system...
You need games on your system...
Phil Spencer talked about how he didn't want to money hat 3rd party exclusives to focus on the 1st party portfolio... And then he goes and cancels Scalebound???
This doesn't make sense to me.
Say what you will about whether or not Scalebound was going to sell well or not, the perception crater this cancellation has left is huge. And I don't see Microsoft running in to fill the crater in.
They absolutely can not wait till E3 to change this perception problem.
They need to do something yesterday to show they have more than Halo, Gears, and Forza lined up for this year for Scorpio or I don't see it being the success they need.
They absolutely cannot rest on the idea that they'll have the most powerful 3rd party content machine when so much 3rd party content seems to be defaulting to Sony's ecosystem only (Nier, Star Ocean, FFVII remake etc.)
Looked better than the first gameplay showings of FF XV....and that turned out alright.
I thought it looked like it had great potential.
That's a good question; in this case Platinum's output is a good example: lower production values, certain genre or defining aspects of the game (hardcore action for example) that most of the time tend to fall outside mainstream preference and in the console space games that don't seem to have the potential to be multi-million sellers (on the face of it) like their AAA brethren. That's not say niche isn't viable strategy in the games market (Paradox and Colossal Order being great examples), or even in the console space nor do I mean it in any negative way about Platinum (I've deep admiration for their work, studio culture and had even the pleasure to learn a bit from them, even if not directly). But the scale platform holders operates on these days is almost hostile to tying resources to niche business areas.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
The reason why the PS3 was able to get ahead of the Xbox 360 all over the world with the exception of the US and UK, is that the Playstation brand is much, much more popular than Xbox. Even a 13 month headstart and a ridiculous price tag (599 euro) wasn't able to keep the PS3 from overtaking the Xbox 360 in sales. When Microsoft did everything wrong with the Xbox One launch and Sony did everything right the console war was already over in Q4 2013. Even when the PS4 was sold out for months at a time and there were stacks of Xbox Ones for bargain prices to be found, nobody bought Xbones. The brand is toxic in Europe. A more powerful Xbox One isn't going to change one damn thing for Microsoft in continental Europe.
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