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Pizza · Jan 1, 2017

If miyamoto wants to make it funny, give it a character action game story mode starring captain falcon jumping out of his car to collect bounties mid race that spirals into a galactic falcon punch like the anime

Within that sweet game, put in some sick simple f zero driving mechanics and take those mechanics and build a racing game around it. Idk, make an immediately appealing spinoff as a vehicle for the game that the niche f zero fans would love, that way you'd also hoodwink everyone who wants to falcon punch people into maybe enjoying the series

Don't make it a star fox zero thing. I'd rather just a port

Nanashrew · Jan 1, 2017

Randomizer said:
Miyamoto is full of shit, sales are the only reason F-Zero isn't being made. If they can create the best most innovate Mario Kart with it's 8th entry, they can easily create a new F-Zero of similar quality.

But even there, Mario kart sees new ideas.

Mario Kart SNES is your bare bones kart racer. The first one.

Mario Kart 64 is an evolution of that.

Mario Kart Super Circuit introduced ranking and being the first in the series to be on a handheld.

Mario Kart Double Dash added 2 characters on 1 vehicle and a different way to manage your items.

Mario Kart DS introduced many new items, mission mode and the first to support online play. (As well as probably being the most competitive of the franchise.)

Mario Kart Wii introduced bikes and allowed for 12 characters on the track instead of 8. Also you could use a wheel so that was kinda neat too.

Mario Kart 7 took away bikes due to limitations but added in hang gliders and underwater driving.

Mario Kart 8 has anti-gravity mode and recently from an update, a 200cc mode.

While much of these seem small in comparison to anti-grav in 8, they all influenced the design of the games and how the tracks were made. And built up to what it is now. I can understand if more ideas are needed and why they shop around for developers since GX and onwards.

Though, you're not entirely wrong though that sales play the biggest factor in wanting to make the next installment.

EDIT: Also forgot that Super Circuit and Mario Kart 7 were done in collaboration with different studios. Super Circuit with Intelligent Systems, and 7 done with Retro Studios. So it's not entirely unheard for even that series to do collaborations to get a game out or bring in fresh ideas.

slightconfuse · Jan 1, 2017

Ninteneo needs something like xbla in order together etc smaller releases

Nanashrew · Jan 1, 2017

slightconfuse said:
Ninteneo needs something like xbla in order together etc smaller releases

I'd be down. Just re-purpose the Ware name for small releases.

eShop with big games and indies.

Ware sub category for the smaller and experimental stuff.

woopWOOP · Jan 1, 2017

Fandangox said:
YOU THINK YOU CAN BEAT ME?

NO WAY!

I loved all those cheesy cutscenes. Game was almost as quotable as Star Fox 64 was (among my friends)

Dreavus said:
Yeah I'd love to see a new one. Give me more of GX's goofy sci-fi universe too. It's like a cross between Star wars (?) and a comic book super hero world. Give me more of this: The cheese ball lines, the "f-zero" vocal tracks, the crazy pilots, all of it.

Man, that background track to the cutscene you linked to is so catchy, makes me sad they never released a clean version of it anywhere

Regulus Tera · Jan 1, 2017

Azure Phoenix said:
Yes, we do, and Miyamoto can be kept a billion miles away from it given his shitty attitude towards the franchise.

The problem is who on earth would work on it. Nintendo aren't going to do it internally, Sega probably isn't an option any more since they aren't likely to take Nagoshi away from Yakuza and pull together a team to work on a new F-Zero, Namco don't seem to be as close to Nintendo as they once were, Platinum's output has been getting shakier, Retro... well god knows what they are ever working on, and other partners like Next Level are far too risky.

They just finished developing Smash and Pokken so I don't follow here?

ec0ec0 · Jan 1, 2017

LordKano said:
[..]as opposed to F-Zero GX which was in some sort of development hell, with two very different development teams.[..]

Do we know more about this?

Ninjimbo · Jan 1, 2017

I wouldn't buy a new F-Zero. I didn't really like GX if I'm being honest. Mario Kart is more my speed.

Schopenhauerian · Feb 12, 2017

Glass Rebel said:
If it's anything like what they did with Star Fox Zero, I'd rather they just touch up GX and release that. Hell, even a VC release on Switch would suffice. Most of all I just need Miyamoto to stay away from some of these franchises.

GhostTrick said:
Yes. Just keep Miyamoto away. This guy's just clueless and should retire already. Monkey paw is the correct word indeed; I feel like when people asked for Star Fox by Platinum Games, what they wanted was basically the Star Fox IP with PG's touch, which means over the top dogfights, epic rival battle, lot of crazy action and difficulty. In the end, we got the slowass and boring, safe Star Fox Zero. (Although I must give it something: It perfectly nailed the artstyle.)...

Beartruck said:
I agree, miyamoto would butcher it. Everyone should just play Fast racing neo.

marvelharvey said:
As long as Miyamoto isn't let anywhere near it, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

CaptainLoveline said:
...Miyamoto would screw it up with some daft gimmick as he always does nowadays, time...

Jobbs said:
Miyamoto needs to retire. God forbid he came up with a new direction for F-Zero. Not having a new direction also never stopped them from making the same Smash and Kart games over and over

-shadow- said:
Yes I do and Miyamoto his reasoning for not greenlighting a new one is outright ridiculous. The game doesn't need a new twist, the last one is more then ten years ago! We can get two New Super Mario games in a time span of seven months however for some explicit ridiculous reason.

Cool Guy Sami said:
I love F-Zero GX and don't really like Miyamoto, so yes I do really really want a new one that he hopefully wouldn't fuck up.

Opa-Pa said:
Can we please force Miyamoto into retirement already so we don't have to deal with this stupid logic and start getting shinier installments of series we like, like so many normal companies provide? I mean I get that FZ is not all that popular but they could at least try one more time...

Vital Tundra said:
At this point in time I don't think Miyamoto will be mucking up any new games with a needless gimmick... Nintendo will be moving away front Miyamoto gimmicks...

Azure Phoenix said:
Yes, we do, and Miyamoto can be kept a billion miles away from it given his shitty attitude towards the franchise...

Anth0ny said:
Not if Miyamoto's in charge. He just don't get it.

Alex said:
If Sega of old made it again, sure. Miyamoto? Probably not the best idea.

Since this perspective seems to come up often, in other threads, it may be worth discussing in more detail.

First thing that should be noted:

TheMoon said:
"Miyamoto" is not "making" any F-Zeros anyway. Not his series. Neither is it his job anymore. Shinya Takahashi is GM aka Mr. Fingers In Everything...

The second thing that should be noted is that Miyamoto/Nintendo were trying to sell/justify the flawed Wii U, by way of Star Fox Zero. That's no longer a concern:

Refreshment.01 said:
Why does the control scheme exist as it is? The reason is because the Star Fox formula was adapted around the Wii U Gamepad features...

Refreshment.01 said:
...[It's] not exactly defending the control scheme since there's no need to, as you and others have all the right in the world to not like it. What im doing here is [objectively] explaining the reasons of why Nintendo opted to implement them...

Refreshment.01 said:
Nerrel said:

...This was the main game Miyamoto was talking about when he promised he would make use of the gamepad back in 2014. The developers involved have all pretty much openly said the game started as an attempt to make the gamepad useful for something, not an attempt to make a new Starfox...

Click to expand...

The above statement demonstrates my point exactly. The rest of your reply is a collection of your feelings towards the game. If you read back Nerrel, my intervention in this topic was due to a person asking: " Why does the control scheme exist as it is?" i just limited myself to provide an impartial answer to the question leaving aside any type of appreciation i might have for Zero.

While Miyamoto intended to promote the exclusive features of the Wii U by way of Star Fox Zero, the blame for the Wii U hardware itself (flawed hardware, exclusive features were of questionable merit) does not belong exclusively to Miyamoto (but that's a story for another time).

In any case, the Wii U itself (and its flawed design, specifically the exclusive features that were of questionable merit) is no longer a relevant concern, with respect to current and future software development.

Nairume said:
For what it's worth, I imagine he personally wants to try and find a new innovation for it because F-Zero has been an increasingly hard sell and he would like to find some way to make the series more viable beyond the niche of dedicated fans. GX proved that adding in a story/mission mode wasn't enough.

Rhanitan said:
Mario Kart, Smash and New Super Mario games each sell at least 20 Times the amount of F-Zero. As much I would love F-Zero, Miyamoto's logic makes sense. There is no reason to invest in another f-zero unless they do something to the franchise that would draw in more sales. It's a very niche game as is.

LordKano said:
...Pikmin for instance is in a way better shape than F-Zero or Starfox. It's selling decently (Pikmin 3 didn't set the world on fire but I think it may have reached the million with the recent rerelease) and a new one is planned for the next year, in addition to a spin-off on 3DS. I think it's more that Pikmin is a well-managed serie with a relatively low budget, as opposed to F-Zero GX...

Nanashrew said:
Okay this is getting kinda dumb. I mean Nintendo does want to continue with the series and asked Criterion in this generation. F-Zero GX probably had the biggest budget of any F-Zero game. It was content rich and reached new heights for the series. No one bought it.

No one really bought the GBA games either and those could have made their money back and then some much quicker because of the lower budget and large userbase. No one watched the anime either.

I do want them to continue making more, Nintendo also wants to make more and I will be there day 1 when we get a new one. But I can understand why they can't do it frequently and why they feel apprehensive much of the time, and why they're seeking out developers to bring in new ideas and collaborate with them.

Lord of Ostia said:
This is what I'm talking about. Futuristic racers are dead as a genre, people. Sony closed Studio Liverpool. The racing genre is basically Mario Kart, Forza, GT and other realistic sims, especially on console. There are indie games filling the void like RedOut and Fast Racing NEO, but those games aren't selling gangbusters. Sure, we are getting a remaster collection of Wipeout, and I will buy the shit out of it, but that's basically it. Doesn't seem like there is an audience waiting in the wings to make F-Zero a success.

Ridley327 said:
I'm not sure there was really a deeper meaning to Miyamoto's statement other than placating someone asking about an IP that they haven't been particularly keen on resurrecting as a result of the one-two punch of GX's poor sales and their failure to have the IP catch on with the anime and the tie-in games on GBA. Unlike some of their other IPs that were arguably mismanaged by moving away from what made them good in the first place, F-Zero gave people exactly what they wanted and was ultimately rewarded with extreme indifference.

Ridley327 said:
I do think that Nintendo did make the mistake of spending as much money as they did on the game. It's insane that every character in the game got their own BGM and voice acting, and that the story mode had as many CG cutscenes as it did, but I can't imagine that they made the path to profitability easy with those kinds of moves on top of making it so content-rich.

Nanashrew said:
...The next F-Zero is unknown, but even if Miyamoto where on it, the Switch really won't have hardware gimmicks that need justifying. Plus Nintendo seems to be looking for 3rd parties and collaborate with them like they did with Amusement Vision for more fresh ideas on where to take the series next.

Lord of Ostia said:
...I think when he says "we can't innovate so we aren't making a new entry" he means that "sales aren't good enough to justify a new entry alone, so the only way a new game will come despite low sales is if we can innovate to reach a new audience". If they did have a great new idea to innovate F-Zero and reach more people than past titles, I think they would do it. They don't though, and past sales don't justify a new entry. It's not that complicated.

Yes on the above posts. Coming back to what Miyamoto said (around June 2013), only partially quoted in the OP:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/20/dont-get-your-hopes-up-for-f-zero

"I certainly understand that people want a new F-Zero game... I think where I struggle is that I don't really have a good idea for what's new that we could bring to F-Zero... I don't know, at this point, what direction we could go in with a new F-Zero."

...Some Nintendo franchises (like Mario Kart) seem to thrive on repeated entries despite being fairly similar to each other. I wondered, and asked, if Miyamoto simply felt some franchises (like F-Zero or Wave Race) were suited to older generations of Nintendo hardware, and didn't have a place in modern gaming.

"It's tough," Miyamoto said. "We come to the show and we bring a lot of great franchises and everyone says, 'Oh, well, where's this game that I want to play? Where's something new?' I only have so much capacity. [laughs] Obviously in the past we've tried to work with other companies, where we've let them develop games for us in franchises like Star Fox and F-Zero, but the more we think about it, the more we prefer to be able to create those games internally, on our own. We've obviously, as I mentioned, been working on what we can do to increase our internal staff in a way that will allow us to have more projects going at the same time, so we can create new games and work on additional old IP and still maintain the other primary franchises that people want to see."

Miyamoto is credited as a producer on F-Zero GX, and he was positive on the game at the time of release (note: a time when Miyamoto had much more influence on the course of software development than he does today):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-Zero_GX
...While Amusement Vision was responsible for most of the game's development, Nintendo EAD employees Shigeru Miyamoto and Takaya Imamura took on the role of producer and supervisor, respectively. Sega handled planning and execution and Nintendo was responsible for supervision of their product. Nagoshi was initially concerned about differences in opinion between the two companies, and mentioned "If Nintendo planned to hold our hands through development, I would have suggested they develop the game themselves. That way we could focus on a project which would reflect our studio's abilities. I figured that would cause a war, but I was told most of the responsibility would be left to us." Miyamoto thought the collaboration resulted in a "true evolution of the F-Zero series", enhancing the simulation of racing at high speeds and expanding the "F-Zero world on a grand scale."

https://web.archive.org/web/20080713064948/http://f-zero.com/interview/ShigeruMiyamoto.jsp

Miyamoto: "Although I've known Mr. Nagoshi for some time, even after seeing his recent work and meeting with him, the impression I still have of him is that of a unique and gung-ho game designer. Even after completing F-ZERO, my impression of him remains the same. That said, I believe that Amusement Vision was the best choice in regards to picking the right team develope 'F-ZERO' in conjunction with our own team here at Nintendo. This collaboration has resulted in a true evolution of the "F-ZERO" series. Not only have we enhanced the intense feeling of racing at such high speeds, but we've expanded the F-ZERO world on a grand scale. Beyond that, we've also successfully implemented a link between play on the arcade unit and the Game Cube."

More on GX, Miyamoto, and Nagoshi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-Zero_GX
...Amusement Vision president, Toshihiro Nagoshi, was working on Super Monkey Ball for GameCube which opened up the opportunity for a collaboration between the two companies. Since Sega helped to develop Nintendo's Triforce arcade system, the company wanted to support it with software that would "stand out and draw attention to Nintendo's platform." Nagoshi was suggested to develop a driving game and agreed under the stipulation he could come up with something unique—which was working on the next installment in Nintendo's F-Zero series... Miyamoto stated "[Nintendo] have gained a lot of fans among current game developers, including famous producers like Mr. Nagoshi who grew up playing Nintendo games and are big fans of some of our titles." In 2002, Nagoshi claimed that 1991's F-Zero "actually taught me what a game should be" and that it served as an influence for him to create Daytona USA and other racing games.[55] Before development started on F-Zero GX and AX, he mentioned abandoning the project due to personal pressures he faced to make a great impression on Nintendo and personal admiration of an established franchise.

http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5379
Question: When did the decision to collaborate with Nintendo come about?

Nagoshi-san: At the time Sega had just shifted its focus to multi-platform software development and began to support GameCube. We began working with Namco and Nintendo on arcade hardware based on their console dubbed 'Tri-Force.' From that point forward we began to exchange ideas regarding cooperative software development projects.

Question: Why did you decide to develop FZero?

Nagoshi-san: I was interested in several of Nintendo's franchises, but they approached me and thought it would be best if I handled FZero. Once that was decided, I thought an arcade and home version should be developed...

Question: How would you describe the collaborative development process with Nintendo?

Nagoshi-san: I really appreciated the opportunity to work on the series. I respect the opinions of Nintendo producer Shigeru Miyamoto and I often sought his advice on the project and leadership. Sega's approach to software development is much different from Nintendo, it was a very refreshing experience. For example, I thought aspects of the game engine itself were most important. Nintendo was interested in designing the vehicles themselves and then deciding on track design and other things. In the end, both approaches to development were incorporated. We spent time adjusting the vehicles and tracks afterwards and also problem solving -- so there was merit in both methods...

jblank83 · Feb 12, 2017

Schopenhauerian said:
Since this perspective seems to come up often, in other threads, it may be worth discussing in more detail.

...

More on GX, Miyamoto, and Nagoshi:

Excellent post, thank you. Miyamoto as a scapegoat is one of the saddest things I see. It also ignores that there are producers, directors, programmers, and designers who are directly responsible for creating the bad games people are upset about. This despite the fact he has been, for quite awhile, in a more managerial/staffing/financial role with only a light amount of input on creative decisions. Even this he stepped away from some years ago, to work on his own personal projects.

ShadowFox08 · Feb 12, 2017

I don't know if I want F-Zero GX HD/remastered, unless it has some significant changes. Looking at Mario Kart 8 with the anti-gravity, and the lack of modes, I can't say its aged all that great.

I do think a new F-Zero game has an infinite amount of ways to make it great. It doesn't have to be a straight reskin of F-Zero GX or wipeout.

Clefargle · Feb 12, 2017

Yes pls, deliver me an fzero

ShadowFox08 · Feb 12, 2017

Miyamoto is credited as a producer on F-Zero GX, and he was positive on the game at the time of release (note: a time when Miyamoto had much more influence on the course of software development than he does today):

I thought he disliked it?

PdotMichael · Feb 12, 2017

Return to mode 7!

Jack The Nipper · Feb 12, 2017

I would rather they make it more like the n64 one.

It isn't that hard though. Just make it have have some new jump mechanics or something.

chaosblade · Feb 12, 2017

jres80 said:
Excellent post, thank you. Miyamoto as a scapegoat is one of the saddest things I see. It also ignores that there are producers, directors, programmers, and designers who are directly responsible for creating the bad games people are upset about. This despite the fact he has been, for quite awhile, in a more managerial/staffing/financial role with only a light amount of input on creative decisions. Even this he stepped away from some years ago, to work on his own personal projects.

I mean, isn't he the one that saddled IntSys and AlphaDream with restrictions on the Mario RPGs? That would make the problems with Paper Mario and M&L his fault. Don't know how much of the controls for Star Fox falls on him but he certainly defended it repeatedly.

ShadowFox08 said:
Miyamoto is credited as a producer on F-Zero GX, and he was positive on the game at the time of release (note: a time when Miyamoto had much more influence on the course of software development than he does today):

I thought he disliked it?

IIRC, a lot of the Miyamoto and F-Zero stuff is totally lacking in context. I think what you're talking about was in reference to the GBA games.

There was a comment about GX being disappointing that often gets trotted out, but it was referring to sales and not the quality of the game.

Enduin · Feb 12, 2017

Sure as hell more of a reason for a new F-Zero than fucking Star Fox. There's a lot of potential there and I've never really even been a fan of the series.

Make a super fast paced futuristic racing game with some crazy over the top story mode that has some cool set piece races and events. Maybe add in a track editor. And done.

Same for Wave Race. Make that a $20-30 eshop game. Create some goofy over the top Baywatch type characters and give me so crazy fun water physics racing you fuck.

These are the perfect type of easy local multiplayer games that would be great on the Switch.

Neptonic · Feb 12, 2017

ShadowFox08 said:
I don't know if I want F-Zero GX HD/remastered, unless it has some significant changes. Looking at Mario Kart 8 with the anti-gravity, and the lack of modes, I can't say its aged all that great.

I do think a new F-Zero game has an infinite amount of ways to make it great. It doesn't have to be a straight reskin of F-Zero GX or wipeout.

Are you saying Mario Kart 8 or GX doesn't have a lot of modes? Because the amount of content in GX is quite impressive.
Just not understanding the comparison to mario kart 8, since GX is a very different beast.

Deadpool_X · Feb 12, 2017

I want a new F-Zero made by the old Burnout team. I forget what their new studio name is.

NeonZ · Feb 12, 2017

GhostTrick said:
You're acting as if Nintendo made sense or took decisions purely based on revenue. I suspect Nintendo just isnt interested. The IP being dead is arguable. GX didn't bombed to the point it killed the IP.

Yeah, the GBA games killed F-Zero. They just did so badly people don't even remember them. It's actually what I fear the most about an F-Zero revival too - they'd somehow go back to the original title again, like the GBA games, rather than X or GX.

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