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My 100 favorite games, and 100 that didn't make the cut, and my story of gaming

I'm really enjoying this thread. There's so many games in my backlog that are appearing on your top 100. After I finish the F.E.A.R. series I'm planning to start S.T.A.L.K.E.R. I've been a fan of Fallout and I hear these games blow it out of the water.

I also have to keep reminding myself that the games that didn't make the list aren't your top 100 worst, they're still good in some ways. Regardless, I'm sure I'll be offended by one game I love that doesn't make the top list but so far I'm having a hard time disagreeing with your choices and criticisms... except for Spec Ops: The Line, that game is a masterpiece.
 

nynt9

Member
Anectode!

I have a good friend who I really like to troll. He loves Mega Man games, they're basically his favorite series. So as a "favor" to him, I gifted him every Mega Man game on iOS, knowing full well the ports are horrible. They're his favorite games! He can't possibly be upset about it! Well, he hated the shitty ports, and beat all of them. Even the especially terrible Mega Man X port. I then gifted him RE4's iOS port and that seemed to break him (he loves that game too).

I was telling him yesterday about Jade Empire, and he said he might be into it with some reservations, so guess what I gifted him on iOS last night? I hope he enjoys (suffering through) it.

(Disclaimer: there are many mobile games I love but I don't think it's the best platform for those games)

I'm really enjoying this thread. There's so many games in my backlog that are appearing on your top 100. After I finish the F.E.A.R. series I'm planning to start S.T.A.L.K.E.R. I've been a fan of Fallout and I hear these games blow it out of the water.

I also have to keep reminding myself that the games that didn't make the list aren't your top 100 worst, they're still good in some ways. Regardless, I'm sure I'll be offended by one game I love that doesn't make the top list but so far I'm having a hard time disagreeing with your choices and criticisms... except for Spec Ops: The Line, that game is a masterpiece.

Thanks! And FEAR is a great game :) I'd caution against expecting an experience too similar to fallout from STALKER, they're fundamentally different games (but STALKER is still better :p)

As for SOTL, as I said it was just not the right place right time for me, and I don't believe the gameplay being intentionally bad to the point it is helps it make a point. It could still play better and make its point in different gameplay ways.

And yeah! The extra 100 aren't 100 games I hate! They're 100 games I really like but not enough to cut out entries in my main list.
 

nynt9

Member
Never fun to double post for a lack of discussion, but I gotta keep my promise and post 5 more games I really liked but not enough to make my list!

Diablo III: Reaper of Souls

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Gotta say, despite loving Diablo 2, I HATED D3 on release. The RMAH was awful, the story and tone was laughable, that you had to sit through cutscenes every time you wanted to play through missions again was annoying, the drop rates were horrid thanks to the RMAH, and for many other reasons D3 was my biggest gaming disappointment of all time. They course corrected a little bit, but it still wasn't good enough.

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Enter Reaper of Souls. They fixed most of the game's major flaws right before the release of the expansion (clever tactic to get people back in the game!), and the expansion itself was awesome. Darker tone, better design and a more worthwhile sequel to 2 overall. This is what D3 should have been at launch. Over time, they improved the game even further, with the tweaks to adventure mode, ladder, seasons and more. Nowadays, the game is actually pretty great. It's probably too little too late, but I still go back to it, and at least now I have confidence that they'll make the right calls with D4.

Ultima Online: Lord Blackthorn's Revenge

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UO was my first MMORPG, and it forever ruined MMORPGs for me. It was full of unprecedented freedom, it was hardcore, a pure sandbox, and had incredible variety. The ability to kill anyone anywhere, have consequences for it, stealing from players, building your own house anywhere, being able to pick any profession... No MMO lives up to the level of freedom I've experienced in UO.

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I never got to spend as much time as I wanted in UO, because I didn't have enough friends to play it with or money to afford it at the time. Still, whenever I was able to play, even on shoddy private servers, it was an incredible experience. I expect the same level of freedom from every MMO I play, and I'm disappointed every time. One day an MMO will come close. One day.

Resident Evil 3: Nemesis

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Oddly, this is my favorite of the classic REs. It's not as foundational as the first or creative as the second, but I really enjoyed the feeling of the Nemesis hunting you down.

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The setting felt more real, the threat more convincing. More of the broken down city, and the Nemesis could find you at any turn, or at least it felt like that. Those choice moments when the Nemesis corners you were always incredibly tense and every time they popped up I lost my composure. It almost felt like a slasher movie. None of the previous two gave me that sense of terror, so RE3 has the edge.

Crimsonland

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I'm not really a fan of top-down/twin stick shooters, but Crimsonland is something else. I've spent dozens of hours in this game trying to beat my best run. The incredible weapon variety, how tense games get and how much you need to improve to play at a high level is just astounding. I was obsessed with this game for years.

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It was supposed to get a sequel at some point, but that never happened. Instead, years later, we got a re-release on steam with improved content. I'm so glad that this game got a new breath, but I'm also sad that I can't beat my previous records because I've lost my edge. One day I'll go back in.

Silent Hill 3

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Yet another hot take: this is my favorite Silent Hill game. I think 2 is great. But I think the series reached its full potential in 3. To put everything aside, 3 is a technical marvel on the PS2. You've all seen the gifs. Beyond that, the gameplay is better, and while 2 is really good at conveying its atmosphere, I preferred the atmosphere 3 conveys. It's a lot more terrifying, and honestly it feels more well-realized and complete to me. It almost feels like Konami didn't believe in SH2 and didn't put their full weight behind it. No moment in 2 is as memorable or deeply effective to me as this one:

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Not to say 2 isn't a great game. But I simply was more affected by 3, was more scared by it, had a better time in it and think it's better as a game. SH2 is a classic of gaming but SH3 is dear to my heart and fucked me up more than 2 ever did.
 

StarPhlox

Member
MAN

I am disappointed that these are on your list that didn't make the cut! Particularly RE3 and SH3 I think are among the best survival horror of all time. RE3 is very intense due to Nemesis but in terms of straight up atmosphere I could barely play SH3 when it released.
 

nynt9

Member
MAN

I am disappointed that these are on your list that didn't make the cut! Particularly RE3 and SH3 I think are among the best survival horror of all time. RE3 is very intense due to Nemesis but in terms of straight up atmosphere I could barely play SH3 when it released.

Those two were some of the hardest cuts I had to make! RE3 got cut basically because other RE games are in there (RE7 as you have already seen) and I want to represent multiple series so I try to keep entries from the same series as few as possible. As for SH3, Siren kind of took it spot for me. They're very similar games in a sense, but Siren was a lot more impactful for me and it has time travel so that's an instant-win for me.
 

nynt9

Member
Ah, forgot to get around to this today. You'll have to forgive me for no anectode. They don't seem to generate discussion anyway, so I guess I'll scale them back a bit. Back to the main list!

70. Diablo II & Lord of Destruction

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I guess I kind of teased the inclusion of this with Diablo III in the "didn't make it" list. This game, to me, defined a genre all on its own. The isometric hack-and-slash. There were others before and after, sure, but Diablo II was perfection. The tone is a huge part of it. The game was dark, grim and mysterious. The story was effectively told, and the atmosphere was palpable. I can recite the cinematic with "Tyrael" and Marius almost verbatim still.

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The gameplay was great as well. Still, no other game comes close to the visceral feeling of how satisfying it is to click and see enemies fall. They just nailed the feedback loop. I have max leveled every character in the game and they're all great, none of them feel like an afterthought. Every area in the game is memorable despite being procedurally generated. The game is just incredibly iconic, and also happens to be a great game. I hope one day Blizzard can make a true sequel to it.

69. Deadly Premonition: The Director's Cut

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Totally not Twin Peaks! This oddball cult classic put SWERY on the map for many, and for good reason. It generally plays pretty poorly, doesn't run well, and is a mess in many ways, but it's such an endearing mess that also nails its bizarre tone of David Lynch meets Hideo Kojima.

The game is full of moments that will stick with you, characters you can't forget, and has an overall very engaging plot and setting. Dale Coo-I mean Francis York Morgan is well-realized and positioned perfectly as both a player avatar in this insane town and a protagonist with their own agency. Really, this game is just something that has to be experienced no matter what. Saying too much would spoil it. It's fantastic. If you're somehow unaware, think Silent Hill meets Twin Peaks meets... uhhh... this:

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Just play it. So says Mr. Stewart!

68. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

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Did I mention that I love Obsidian? This game was my first brush with them. It was also the first time that I realized that the Star Wars universe doesn't need to be as black-and-white as the movies make it out to be, and thus it has caused me to always expect way too much from them. Being a sequel to the successful KOTOR by Bioware, KOTOR2, while unfinished at parts (play it with the content restoration mod!), was vastly superior in terms of storytelling, characterization and pretty much everything else.

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The origin story of the Sith and their fate along with Revan's has been the source of much of my interior Star Wars fanfiction, as I've always been intrigued about what more could be out there in the universe. The game is a lot darker than its predecessor in terms of tone, it forces you to explore more difficult questions and choose between flawed options as Obsidian love to make you do. The villains are the star of the story, as their depth, their motivations and their drive is what really sets this game apart. Their presence is felt throughout the game and this ends up being the most oppressive Star Wars game tonally. Hats off to Obsidian.

67. Grim Fandango

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The king of Lucasarts point-and-click games!
(maybe, stay tuned for future entries)
Grim Fandango is a fascinating tale in a brilliant setting, and somehow I've played through it so many times. No game (other than maybe Guacamelee) uses Dio de los Muertos as a setting premise, and it works so well. Playing a failed grim reaper down on his luck in the land of the dead is just a delightful take. Setting that against a noir tone and 3D p&c gameplay somehow works so well. Most of the puzzles are more sensible than the old 2D SCUMM style games too.

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What pushes this game over the top is the voice acting, the music, the writing, the story, everything that creates the universe of it. The game has no HUD and basically plays out like a movie, and it commits so well to its movie homage moments while feeling original and creative. I'd argue that this is the best point-and-click adventure game. So glad to see it got remastered recently as well, as now a new generation can access it, and the older fans have a better, modernized version.

66. Kirby Canvas Curse

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I love the Kirby games, but my favorite Kirby game is oddly not really a Kirby game. The drawing mechanic is just so interesting and leads to gameplay I've never experienced before. Few games made this creative and expansive use of the DS's stylus, and fewer made it work this well. Taking the fundamentals of a Kirby game and applying them to an entirely different context yet making it still feel like Kirby is a lot more difficult than it looks, but they made it work. Instead of playing like a traditional run-and-jump platformer, you control an auto-rolling Kirby by drawing lines to funnel him in the right direction and clicking on him to roll faster. Sounds deceptively simple but it works so well. They've also modified the typical enemies you can absorb so that their powers work in this control scheme. It's pretty brilliant, really.

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I loved this game so much that I 100%d it. Usually I don't have the patience for collectathon platformers but the blend of tight gameplay, level design that explores every possible way the mechanics can be utilized, and clever secrets just made it worth it. Oddly, despite loving Canvas Curse so much, I didn't like Rainbow Curse at all. It felt like it had none of the inspiration and creativity that drove CC to be so good. Goes to show that you can have the same game design and improved visual style yet still fail to make a great game. Level design goes a long way!
 

StarPhlox

Member
Ah some choices that are more along the mainstream!

I've played most of these (or at least games in their series) and they seem like solid picks. KOTOR 2 is a weird one considering that it's most notorious for being shipped if not literally then figuratively unfinished.

Played a lot of Diablo 2 as a teen but never really had an urge to go back to it ever...I think I subbed it out for Phantasy Star Online--which would easily make my top 100 list and I curse the fact we will never see that in the west.

I never watched Twin Peaks so I doubt I would "get" Deadly Premonition and I think Nintendo made a mistake putting a sequel to that Kirby game on Wii U instead of 3DS.
 
Very interesting thread. I'll definitely subscribe.

Regarding the anecdotes, it might not drive a lot of discussion (likely due to these being very personal memories that other gaffers don't share), but I find them to be one of the more intriguing parts of the thread as it adds a true human element to growing up with games. Hoping you continue with them.

I'm impressed that you recall so much about these games that you have played over the years. Maybe it's because my memory isn't that great (I have difficulty remembering key scenes from games I played last year), but I would certainly have difficulty putting a similar list together with commentary.

As someone who has been gaming for a long time (turning 40 this year), it's good to read about past games I've played (or missed) that have long left my memory. Thanks.
 

nynt9

Member
Time for 5 more great games that didn't make the list.

Boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hands

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An isometric adventure/shooter/stealth game produced by Hideo Kojima that stars a vampire hunter and has a physical sunlight sensor in the cartridge to detect the time of the day? Sign me up. Boktai was a game that I was able to convince my parents to get me because of the premise, that it would make me spend more time outside, because they were going through that parent phase of "our kid is spending all his time indoors playing video games and he never goes outside". If the premise itself wasn't interesting enough, you'll be happy to know that the game was really good as well. It was quite brutal, and the mechanics had surprising depth due to the variety of weapon customization. YOu had to explore complex dungeons and solve lots of puzzles in addition to having to deal with a slew of tough enemies as well.

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Your ammo felt genuinely limited and you had to use the sunlight sensor to charge it. The game had a fantastic art style and made great use of it to convey its atmosphere. Locations felt quaint, and enemies looked cool but creepy in an all-ages way. The time of the day affected enemies too, obviously, with this being a vampire game. Really, this game had such an absurd premise that it bears highlighting. It had two GBA sequels (one Japan-exclusive) that also had the sensor, and a DS sequel called Lunar Knights, and it lacked the sunlight sensor. Instead, it had a regular day/night cycle. It still had the same awesome gameplay though, and they're all worth playing for sure.

Call of Duty 2

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It feels like archaic knowledge these days, but Call of Duty games existed before Modern Warfare! And they were actually quite great back then as well. Based heavily on classic WWII movies, COD2's campaign put you in the shoes of three different characters. Seeing the different perspectives of the Soviets, Brititsh and Americans was pretty interesting at the time. The combat felt a lot weightier than modern COD, which is the real reason why this game deserves praise, I think.

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It was a great balance of visceral and depressing WWII and cinematic action shooter. It felt like a legitimate adventure instead of closed off cinematic setpieces like many of the modern ones. There was a feeling of actual craft to the game that seems lost in the sequels that seem rather sterilized. Maybe this year's return to WWII will bring back some of that, but I'm not optimistic. We'll see. If I said this game had the best "realistic" WWII single player FPS campaign, I probably wouldn't face a lot of opposition.

Lost Planet 2

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I really wanted this game to make my top 100. I love the game's idea and setting and look, but it's just not fun to play alone. Lost Planet 1 showed a lot of promise, and LP2 kind of took it in an entirely different direction and was even better for it. Starship Troopers meets third person shooter-Monster Hunter, this game is freaking awesome. Amazing level design and setpieces, memorable fights and incredible boss battles, this game really nailed its premise.

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The controls were kind of intentionally clunky, but the weighty feeling they had actually enhanced the game for the most part. It looked great for its time as well, which definitely helped. You play as a squad of 4 soldiers wrecking giant alien bugs. The problem is, when you play solo you are paired with really bad AI that makes the game borderline unbeatable. The online wasn't super well implemented either, so it never really reached its full potential. The Japan-exclusive 3DS reboot Lost Planet EX was actually pretty awesome, which makes the fact that it wasn't ported a huge shame. And the Western-developed third game, while being OK, was just not true to the gameplay of the series. Too bad we never got more of this series, because who doesn't love grappling hooks and giant guns and mechs against skyscraper sized bosses?

Bastion & Transistor

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This game is probably the best attempt at the Diablo formula that isn't Diablo and takes it in a totally different direction instead. Thing is, it could totally have just relied on its amazing visual style and the famous narration. It would have been so easy to focus on that and have the gameplay be mediocre - they'd still get praised for the other aspects. But the gameplay is actually pretty awesome as well! It was a slightly weightier but also more dynamic version of Diablo that worked quite well. Add in a variety of weapons, modifiers to make the game harder for more XP, and clever level design, and we have a great game!

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Of course, the narration and art style bear mention. It goes to show that presentation really makes a difference. Having the world piece itself together right in front of you really reinforces the notion that there was a calamity and the world fell apart. And of course, the narration by Logan Cunningham. That's what puts the game over the top. Framing, storytelling, everything is delivered masterfully. Transistor is just as good as well, and the realtime-with-pause combat in that is incredible, and the atmosphere is totally distinct and even better in many ways. Both are fantastic games really. In fact let me talk about that.

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I love that Transistor tells it story in a vaguer fashion that makes you work for it a little bit more. It makes the tragic revelation of the backstories of the characters hit harder in a way. The world design is even better (you know I prefer urban settings) and the robots look great as well. Maybe the fact that I'm partial to RTWP combat puts this one over for me. The combat is brilliantly designed, and the best modern RTWP system I can think of. Coupled with the difficulty modifiers and the motivation to max out each weapon to get the backstory of the relevant characters, the combat kept me coming for more and trying new things constantly.


Ah some choices that are more along the mainstream!

I've played most of these (or at least games in their series) and they seem like solid picks. KOTOR 2 is a weird one considering that it's most notorious for being shipped if not literally then figuratively unfinished.

Played a lot of Diablo 2 as a teen but never really had an urge to go back to it ever...I think I subbed it out for Phantasy Star Online--which would easily make my top 100 list and I curse the fact we will never see that in the west.

I never watched Twin Peaks so I doubt I would "get" Deadly Premonition and I think Nintendo made a mistake putting a sequel to that Kirby game on Wii U instead of 3DS.

KOTOR 2 is generally beloved among the fans "in the know" because it's straight up better :p the cut content doesn't hurt the overall experience too much and what's there is just too good to pass. Most legitimate RPG lists would pick KOTOR2 over 1, I'd say

PSO is different enough from Diablo that I don't really see that comparison - Diablo satisfies that very base instinct of clicking and watching tons of minions fall that a 3D game doesn't convey.

You should watch Twin Peaks, it's amazing and it's getting a third season in a month or so! Deadly Premo is an acquired taste though so it's ok on that one. But you can watch Super Best Friends Play LP it and that's probably the second best thing if you don't wanna play it. And yeah, Rainbow Curse probably needed to be a 3DS game. That you're forced to look at the gamepad which really harms the beautiful graphics of that game was one of Nintendo's stupider ideas. But even then, the real issue is the level design just not being interesting.

Very interesting thread. I'll definitely subscribe.

Regarding the anecdotes, it might not drive a lot of discussion (likely due to these being very personal memories that other gaffers don't share), but I find them to be one of the more intriguing parts of the thread as it adds a true human element to growing up with games. Hoping you continue with them.

I'm impressed that you recall so much about these games that you have played over the years. Maybe it's because my memory isn't that great (I have difficulty remembering key scenes from games I played last year), but I would certainly have difficulty putting a similar list together with commentary.

As someone who has been gaming for a long time (turning 40 this year), it's good to read about past games I've played (or missed) that have long left my memory. Thanks.

Thanks for the interest! I guess I can wrap anectodes into my list posts when there's not much going on. As for the memory thing, I've always had a good memory, and these are all games that particularly stood out to me and were formative or just very, very enjoyable. I can't necessarily recite every single thing that happened in Fahrenheit, but I remember most of it, and I remember the standout parts.

I'll share a bit of an anectode here. The first video game system death I experienced. Well, I've had PCs die on me because shoddy PC parts (more on that on another anectode) but my first system that died on me was also the first gaming system I owned, my PS1. Funnily, it died many, many years later. You may recall that I keep talking about living in Turkey and having to import systems and games from abroad. My PS1 was American. Now, those of you who have traveled internationally probably know that different countries have different power outlets. But there's more to it than that. The outlets have a different voltage that they use. 110V in America, 220V in Europe (including Turkey).

My dad, having grown up in America, knew of the issues that came with this. Back then, electronics weren't universal with their power supplies. We had an electrical transformer
about the size of a small shoe box that my dad brought over when he moved to Turkey to be able to use his American appliances without them dying. I had to plug that in every time I wanted to play my PS1, and that thing was heavy and LOUD. It buzzed, and it was annoying, but it was the only way I was able to play games. Well, it was all fine. I loved my PS1. That's also how I played my N64 and Xbox. These days, since gen 7, systems have power supplies within that handles that stuff. You just need a different cable that has your local power outlet shape, or you can just buy a tip converter for like a dollar or two.

Years pass, it's around early PS3 gen, and I go to my cousin's to hang out. We want to have some retro gaming time, so I bring my PS1 over. By this time who knows where the old transformer even is, and I don't wanna look for it. I ask my aunt to see if they have a transformer, and they do. She brings it out, and it's a much smaller thing. I'm kind of concerned, but she assures me it works. I plug it in, turn the system on, and immediately smoke starts coming out of the PS1. And that was the death of my first console. It was unrecoverable because the board inside just melted.

What happened? Thing is, the only difference between the USA and Europe isn't just the voltage. The current is different as well. That's why when you take a US laptop and use it in Europe, the power brick tends to get absurdly warm. The transformer she gave me did account for the voltage, but not the current. Modern electronics don't have a problem with this due to built-in converters. The PS1, being old, didn't have hardware to deal with that, and it just melted. Well, she couldn't have known, but I should have trusted my gut and not play it without the transformer. Oh well. We had good times, PS1!
 

StarPhlox

Member
Boktai is a game I really regret not getting when it came out! Such a unique concept and mechanic behind it and there's really no way of playing it now the way it was intended (unless you're really committed to forking out the cash for the original cart and a GBA).

Bastion and Transistor are both games I wish I enjoyed more than I actually did. Beautiful for sure and I eventually had fun with Transistor's unique gameplay but Bastion did almost nothing for me! I'll stay tuned on Supergiant does next anyway.
 

Djostikk

Member
I'm really enjoying reading this thread. Most of your picks similar to mine, but there are also something new for me. Can't wait to see what's next.
 

jdstorm

Banned
Just want to reitterate that i am really enjoying reading this thread. Especially the anecdotes.

Its a few posts back, but i always feel like KotOR 1 is unfairly maligned for its lack of depth and complexity. Then again i normally play as a mostly good force neutral female character. So its possible that i am just filling in the gaps, in writing with my own imagination.

Its fair to say that KotOR 2s protagonist is basically Female Revan but Obsidian weren't allowed to change the canon so they gave you a new previously unmentioned female character with an almost identical backstory.
 

nynt9

Member
Boktai is a game I really regret not getting when it came out! Such a unique concept and mechanic behind it and there's really no way of playing it now the way it was intended (unless you're really committed to forking out the cash for the original cart and a GBA).

Bastion and Transistor are both games I wish I enjoyed more than I actually did. Beautiful for sure and I eventually had fun with Transistor's unique gameplay but Bastion did almost nothing for me! I'll stay tuned on Supergiant does next anyway.

What I like about Supergiant is that every game they make is significantly different yet has some core DNA shared. Pyre looks great!

I'm really enjoying reading this thread. Most of your picks similar to mine, but there are also something new for me. Can't wait to see what's next.

You should post similar games that you think I'm missing! Who knows, maybe I'll find a gen I missed.

Just want to reitterate that i am really enjoying reading this thread. Especially the anecdotes.

Its a few posts back, but i always feel like KotOR 1 is unfairly maligned for its lack of depth and complexity. Then again i normally play as a mostly good force neutral female character. So its possible that i am just filling in the gaps, in writing with my own imagination.

Its fair to say that KotOR 2s protagonist is basically Female Revan but Obsidian weren't allowed to change the canon so they gave you a new previously unmentioned female character with an almost identical backstory.

I think KOTOR 1 is pretty good, but it's too... vanilla, for lack of a better term. It just follows the Bioware formula that was used in many of their other games. KOTOR 2 actually has some moral dilemmas and feels like its own thing. The protagonist is no Revan, but the main character of the game is essentially that one companion. You know who.
 

Mimosa97

Member
How did you manage to remember so many games and your exact experience/feelings while playing them ? Damn. You must a fantastic memory. Or you keep track of your gaming by taking notes or writing about it regularly ?
 

nynt9

Member
How did you manage to remember so many games and your exact experience/feelings while playing them ? Damn. You must a fantastic memory. Or you keep track of your gaming by taking notes or writing about it regularly ?

I made a big spreadsheet before I started this thread, writing down basically every game that I felt strongly about, and then whittled it down to about 200. I looked up the best and most underrated games on each system, my big physical collection including old PC games, my digital libraries, and the best games lists for every year to make sure I'm not forgetting anything. I have a very strong visual memory so seeing any imagery related to those games immediately brings up the associations I have with them. I don't remember the exact dates for some events, but I do remember what happened pretty vividly. Then again, I know pretty much every close friend's phone number (and their old numbers that they haven't used in like 5 years) by memory so maybe I just have a good memory :p
 

jdstorm

Banned
I think KOTOR 1 is pretty good, but it's too... vanilla, for lack of a better term. It just follows the Bioware formula that was used in many of their other games. KOTOR 2 actually has some moral dilemmas and feels like its own thing. The protagonist is no Revan, but the main character of the game is essentially that one companion. You know who.

I understand the love for KotOR2. I also think its quite fitting that of the 2 KotOR games one is an indepth look at the light side of the force, while the other looks at the dark side. In general i tend to appreciate simple stories as i like to use my imagination to fill in the gaps. Its possible that i have done this with KotOR.

However its worth mentioning that KotOR as a Lightside(LS)/Neutral female is a significantly superior narative experience to any other path. This is exemplefied by a late game conversation with
Bastilla.

As a dark side(DS) character of either gender the narative boils down to "Join me, I am more powerful"

As a LS Male you just say "I love you" and thats all there is. Its pretty underwhelming.

However as a LS female you don't get that same bailout and the situation becomes infinitely more complex. You now have to draw on the paralells between the two characters and make a somewhat compelling arguement about why one would choose the lightside over the darkside, or you will have to kill them. A prospect that is unapealing and reflects pretty heavily on the player given the close paralells between the player character and
Bastilla
which are now even closer due to the shared gender.

Either way its fair to say that both games get great mileage from having the player be active participants in the outcome of the story, which is probably my favourite thing about gaming as a storytelling medium.
 

nynt9

Member
I understand the love for KotOR2. I also think its quite fitting that of the 2 KotOR games one is an indepth look at the light side of the force, while the other looks at the dark side. In general i tend to appreciate simple stories as i like to use my imagination to fill in the gaps. Its possible that i have done this with KotOR.

However its worth mentioning that KotOR as a Lightside(LS)/Neutral female is a significantly superior narative experience to any other path. This is exemplefied by a late game conversation with
Bastilla.

As a dark side(DS) character of either gender the narative boils down to "Join me, I am more powerful"

As a LS Male you just say "I love you" and thats all there is. Its pretty underwhelming.

However as a LS female you don't get that same bailout and the situation becomes infinitely more complex. You now have to draw on the paralells between the two characters and make a somewhat compelling arguement about why one would choose the lightside over the darkside, or you will have to kill them. A prospect that is unapealing and reflects pretty heavily on the player given the close paralells between the player character and
Bastilla
which are now even closer due to the shared gender.

Either way its fair to say that both games get great mileage from having the player be active participants in the outcome of the story, which is probably my favourite thing about gaming as a storytelling medium.

I think that's a fair assessment. I dont think I ever played as a LS female, and it's interesting to think about the notion that you can play a game differently and think it's good/bad because of that.

Speaking of filling the gaps with your imagination, I think KOTOR 2 did a great job of that for me with the lore of the origin of the Sith and the distant Sith forces elsewhere beyond the Galaxy. I kind of mentioned it in my post regarding the game, but I think that notion is incredibly interesting. You-know-who thinking the squabbles of this galaxy being irrelevant and going away to pursue greater wisdom and power always made me want to see what's out there beyond. I've always wanted a proper sequel that took us there, and I always imagined my own stories that took place there.

I also generally dislike being space Jesus in games where the entire galaxy bends to my whim, I like that there are greater forces at play, and that feeling was part of why I preferred 2. I liked that moral choices were less obvious as well, as I think that's always the biggest flaw of Bioware games. Not to say I think our choices shouldn't matter, just that our choices shouldn't just make everyone fall in line.
 

Mimosa97

Member
I made a big spreadsheet before I started this thread, writing down basically every game that I felt strongly about, and then whittled it down to about 200. I looked up the best and most underrated games on each system, my big physical collection including old PC games, my digital libraries, and the best games lists for every year to make sure I'm not forgetting anything. I have a very strong visual memory so seeing any imagery related to those games immediately brings up the associations I have with them. I don't remember the exact dates for some events, but I do remember what happened pretty vividly. Then again, I know pretty much every close friend's phone number (and their old numbers that they haven't used in like 5 years) by memory so maybe I just have a good memory :p

Jesus Christ lol
 
Great thread. Very well written. I love the thoughtfulness you've added to each game, regardless of whether it's in the top 100 or didn't make the cut. Fantastic stuff.

It's also reminded me of games I loooooooved (Golden Sun!) and ones I see in your list that are sitting in my Steam backlog waiting for me (STALKER, Sleeping Dogs).

Now, if I could just pry myself away from playing Overwatch long enough to get into something else.

Subbed.
 

nynt9

Member
Great thread. Very well written. I love the thoughtfulness you've added to each game, regardless of whether it's in the top 100 or didn't make the cut. Fantastic stuff.

It's also reminded me of games I loooooooved (Golden Sun!) and ones I see in your list that are sitting in my Steam backlog waiting for me (STALKER, Sleeping Dogs).

Now, if I could just pry myself away from playing Overwatch long enough to get into something else.

Subbed.

Heh, I know that pain very well. That pesky game is coming up in my list :p
 

GamerJM

Banned
Surprised at the amount of praise you're giving the non-top 100 games, and how many of them there have been so far. I made a top 100 list once and while I felt pretty satisfied with it, I'd be hard-pressed to name games outside of it that I have very much passion for (I like a lot of games outside of my top 100, but none of them were titles I'd say were very memorable).
 

lumzi23

Member
I think KOTOR 1 is pretty good, but it's too... vanilla, for lack of a better term. It just follows the Bioware formula that was used in many of their other games. KOTOR 2 actually has some moral dilemmas and feels like its own thing. The protagonist is no Revan, but the main character of the game is essentially that one companion. You know who.

From memory Kotor captures the feeling of the original trilogy more than the second game. I have gone back and forth over the years over which game I prefer.
Kreia
is one of the reasons for this. I have gone back and forth between finding
her
philosophy profound and finding it completely nonsensical (there is thread which someone posted recently a video of
her
that pulled me back in the direction of profound). Nevertheless both games have the ability to draw me into their world in a way that few games do.

I hope to find out which I truly think when I replay both games in the near future (something that I keep telling myself I am going to do).

Also, I should mention that I have never played kotor 2 with the restored content mod. Know a good place for me to find it (the mod, I mean)?
 

nynt9

Member
Surprised at the amount of praise you're giving the non-top 100 games, and how many of them there have been so far. I made a top 100 list once and while I felt pretty satisfied with it, I'd be hard-pressed to name games outside of it that I have very much passion for (I like a lot of games outside of my top 100, but none of them were titles I'd say were very memorable).

I really like more than 100 games! In fact my top 100 is achieved with limiting it to as few entries per franchise as possible. Considering some franchises have 5-10 good to great games, they would easily dominate my top 100. In fact I had more than 200 games to talk about but you gotta stop somewhere :p maybe when I'm done with my main lists and the thread is still going I'll talk about those too.

From memory Kotor captures the feeling of the original trilogy more than the second game. I have gone back and forth over the years over which game I prefer.
Kreia
is one of the reasons for this. I have gone back and forth between finding
her
philosophy profound and finding it completely nonsensical (there is thread which someone posted recently a video of
her
that pulled me back in the direction of profound). Nevertheless both games have the ability to draw me into their world in a way that few games do.

I hope to find out which I truly think when I replay both games in the near future (something that I keep telling myself I am going to do).

Also, I should mention that I have never played kotor 2 with the restored content mod. Know a good place for me to find it (the mod, I mean)?

Moddb: http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-sith-lords-restored-content-mod-tslrcm/
Steam workshop: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=485537937

I think what you mention is the hallmark of a great game. It makes you think about it long after you finish it. You consider the motivations of the characters, the themes being examined, the message the game wanted you to think about. The great thing about Obsidian writing is that, when they're at the top of their game, they don't tell you what they want you to think. They give you a dilemma, and make you figure out how you feel about it. The character you mention had legitimate points, and was worth thinking about. And that's the best kind of villain, really. The one who makes so much sense that you are tempted to agree. It's not extremely difficult to write a villain who has their own morality system and justifications for what they do. But it is difficult to actually have them pull you into their system and think along.

KOTOR 1 does feel more like classic Star Wars, and 2 is kind of a deconstruction of SW. I'm a big fan of deconstructive media (don't make me make a top 100 movie/tv/anime thread) and not s lot of games do it well, especially without being grown-inducingly hamfisted.
 
Great idea for a thread nynt9, ive enjoyed reading thru it so far.

Please keep the anecdotes coming as Im enjoying those stories even more than your thoughts on your list of fav games.
 

nynt9

Member
Due to demand, I'll try bringing back the morning anectode. Let's see how this goes.

As I mentioned before, I've always been a primarily PC oriented gamer. When I was in high school, at some point my PC had fallen behind and it was time to upgrade. Thing is, my parents didn't agree with spending money on that, so I had to make it happen my own way. I saved up by cutting back on lunch and other expenses. The problem is, there was no real PC part store back then, and the few places you could get parts were prohibitively expensive. I needed a new GPU.

A few of my friends always talked about this illegal street bazaar that always gets set up in some off area of the city. It's not anything super shady, just not licensed or regulated. They set up stalls and run if they hear police coming by. You could always find pirated games and movies (more on that on a later anectode), off brand appliances, hacked consoles, clothing, food, bootleg toys, anything really. I decided to hit this place up and try my luck.

It was pretty amazing, I had grown up as a sheltered kid so I didn't really get exposed to this side of the city before. There were dozens of stalls all around, and it was very random. There were some hacked PS2s and I was really tempted to get a PS2, but I needed to focus on my mission. I couldn't afford a console and games for it.

Finally, after trawling around for like half an hour, I found two stalls that sell computer parts. One of them had a GPU I wanted, but I know that the people who man these stalls will price gouge you if you don't know what you're doing, and I was obviously a total fish out of water. I tried to be all shrewd, first going to the stall I want, acting not too interested, then going to the other stall and spending a lot of time there haggling with the guy, then coming back, playing all these mind games. Or so I thought. I probably looked like a huge mark. Well, either way, I managed to get an unopened GPU that was pretty good and barely within my budget. I don't remember what it was unfortunately. I think it was a GeForce 3 or 4? I remember the board being blue.

Anyway, I come home super excited but also nervous. What if I got played? What if it doesn't work? It also didn't look anything like previous GPUs I installed. Well, anyway, I went to work, and installed it. Lo and behold, it worked! It was the most exhilarating shopping experience of my gaming life. I went back to the place a year or so later to get a CPU, but a few years after the police cracked down on the bazaar and it was shut down. I heard rumblings that similar places popped up here and there, but I never really investigated too much because they didn't sound as good as the big bazaar. Fun times.
 
This is fantastic and I would love to do something like this. The best part is the mix of getting to know you, what shaped your taste of games and how you view the games. Great reading.
 

nynt9

Member
Thanks for the positive feedback guys. I hope people don't just enjoy the anectodes but discuss them as well. That's what keeps the thread active.

Back to the main list.

65. Red Alert 2 (plus Yuri's Revenge)

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For some reason, the mainline Command & Conquer games never clicked with me, but I've always loved the alternative history slant of the Red Alert Franchise. The campy take on WWII with weird science stuff was always awesome. The first game was great, but when the sequel came out, it blew my mind. The new graphics were fantastic, the premise of the Soviets invading America was really cool, and the mission design was varied and consistently entertaining. How can anyone forget using the Eiffel tower as a Tesla coil?

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Same goes for the expansion as well. It took the cooler mind control units from the Soviet faction and gave them their own, with really interesting gameplay mechanics that felt unlike anything else at the time. The story of the games was actually pretty great, and the FMV cutscenes were always a huge part of the appeal. But the colorful, fast paced gameplay is always where it's at. That there isn't a unit limitation meant you could have ridiculous armies, and our free-for-all LAN games would usually end with hilarious steamrolls. I really appreciated that there was a level editor as well. Love these games.

64: SUPERHOT (plus SUPERHOT VR)

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SUPER. HOT. SUPER. HOT. SUPER. HOT. This game. This freaking game. I love everything about it. The aesthetic, the off-kilter minimal story, but mostly the mechanic. "Time only moves when you move" is just such a brilliant idea. And they take it to such lengths as well! They give you all kinds of scenarios to experiment with the mechanics in, and I keep seeing new tricks online. I'm normally not a big fan of score attack games where I try to optimize one run over and over, but I love experimenting with the mechanics of SUPERHOT so much that I keep going back to it despite there being no real scoreboard. The alternative modes introduced postgame with new restrictions take the formula even further and it's great.

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The VR version is a fantastic experience as well, completely justifying the format. They've changed the game in enough ways that it feels like its own thing while still being totally SUPERHOT. The VR controls let you fully realize all the crazy, cool, badass movie moments you can imagine, and the game really lets you play around with all that stuff by giving you an ample variety of arenas. Regardless of which version of the game you play, it's a great time.

63. Fallout: New Vegas

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Hey, it's Obsidian again! It's hard to say something about this game that many others haven't said yet. I really like the notion of Fallout games, but I dislike their setting, so I never really commit to them. New Vegas, however, manages to shine through all that. Of course, Obsidian give us a game full of choice and consequence, of quirky characters in conflicted situations. It's what they do best after all. What's so impressive about New Vegas is that it manages to feel like a lived-in, real setting (ask MrBTongue, whose analysis of NV is life-changing).

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You can see in the above image how much choice players are given in one of the more interesting quests in NV. You wouldn't notice this in one playthrough perhaps, but with multiple attempts at playing the game as different characters yields very different stories and adventures. There are many factions and mini-factions pitted at each other, and you can play an important role in their conflicts without feeling like Desert Jesus. The game is rough around the edges, but Obsidian had to make it with a limited time frame and budget, and it feels like the game is good despite the Fallout mechanics and engine, not because of it. Regardless, they've managed to give depth to a setting I find incredibly shallow and stupid, and made a compelling, complex, and entertaining game out of it. Hats off.

62: XCOM 2

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I tried to play the classic XCOM games back in the day, but they never clicked with me. I was too young to properly appreciate them, was into other types of games back then, and when I went back to them I was spoiled by more modern games. But I am a big fan of Firaxis's stuff, and religiously following everything they do, I was of course super into XCOM. I think Enemy Unknown perfected the turn based formula, and Enemy Within somehow further improved it with more content that made everything feel cooler. Enter XCOM 2. They completely changed the formula while keeping the fundamentals here, and helped the game reach its full potential.

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See, the thing is, XCOM EU had a "perfect" way to play. If you kept things slow, played defensively, moved from cover to cover, you always maximized your chances. There was little room for experimentation and adaptability. EW changed that a bit by adding meld canisters and forcing a timer on you, but since the base game wasn't balanced around it that wasn't enough. In 2, they change the entire premise. Instead of leading the defense forces against an alien invasion, you are the leader of the resistance against the alien force that has already won. This means that you need to use stealth and guerilla tactics. That you have a stealth phase adds an additional level of complexity to the game, and since the game forces a timer on you during missions you have to play aggressively. Since you can no longer turtle, you need to take risks and improvise. That's when the combat really comes into its own. Add to it some ridiculously tough enemies and a general variety of them, minor fixes that make a huge difference like how you don't lose your turn when spotted, map variety and more, XCOM 2 takes an already-amazing system to a whole new level.

61: Indiana Jones And The Fate Of Atlantis

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I've said earlier that Grim Fandango is the best point and click adventure game. That's probably true. But why is this one higher in my list then? It's personal. This is one of the first games I ever played from the shareware CD, and the first game I played that my father didn't give me. It's also my first encounter with Indiana Jones before the movies! The game was a sprawling adventure with great music and characters, going to many different locales, solving creative and exciting puzzles, and it even had a branching narrative with the third act of the game being completely different depending on earlier choices in the game!

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The game has an excellent sense of intrigue and of being a journey. You are in search of Atlantis, and you visit many places, be it exotic or urban, meet many characters (even play as multiple of them!) and face many challenges. There are plenty opportunities to die in the game, so saving often is key. The great part of it all is that you legitimately feel like an adventurer on a globe-trotting quest solving an ancient mystery. Like Indy should be. I actually remember a lot of the characters and puzzle solutions and plot beats because they're all just so well-realized. I actually had a really hard time picking a screenshot for this because so many of them take place in memorable spots or are iconic moments. The intro sequence itself is mind-blowing for its time. Just play this game. It's amazing.
 

StarPhlox

Member
I think SUPERHOT is one of the few games from last year that I missed the first time around and want to go back to. The other being Hitman.

I really like the simple art and I think it's another indie that would be a big success on Switch.


As far as Fallout I only played 3 and 4 so I really feel I missed an opportunity with New Vegas because 4 was so bad to me that I never want to play a Fallout again which isn't fair to NV :(
 

Djostikk

Member
That was a great anecdote and it's really close to me. Decades ago we had plenty of stores like that and I would buy cheap games for Sega or PlayStation later. It was hard to buy licensed copy of the game since they were very rare and also expensive. Some great moments to remember, I will never forget a joy of going for a new game and then playing it all day long.

I'm also happy to see indies! SUPERHOT is a blast game. Maybe there's a room for Enter the Gungeon, for example? :D
 

nynt9

Member
I think SUPERHOT is one of the few games from last year that I missed the first time around and want to go back to. The other being Hitman.

I really like the simple art and I think it's another indie that would be a big success on Switch.


As far as Fallout I only played 3 and 4 so I really feel I missed an opportunity with New Vegas because 4 was so bad to me that I never want to play a Fallout again which isn't fair to NV :(

You played the wrong Fallouts :p

That was a great anecdote and it's really close to me. Decades ago we had plenty of stores like that and I would buy cheap games for Sega or PlayStation later. It was hard to buy licensed copy of the game since they were very rare and also expensive. Some great moments to remember, I will never forget a joy of going for a new game and then playing it all day long.

I'm also happy to indies! SUPERHOT is a blast game. Maybe there's a room for Enter the Gungeon, for example? :D

I love indies, and there are a few in my list still, but Enter The Gungeon didn't make it. Rogue Legacy is another one I really wanted to include, but both are probably in my top 100 "almost made it".

Oh yeah, up until a certain time, it was actually borderline impossible to get non pirated copies of games. Actually, let me turn this into an anectode. The thing is, there was no company in the country that was a distributor for video games, so there was no official channel for video games to have a presence in the country. As such, piracy was rampant. And this isn't your "download a torrent" type of piracy either. Stores sold physical copies of pirated games. This usually entailed a plastic bag-case containing a CD-R with the game title sharpied on and a piece of paper with the box art. They sold these for the equivalent of $5-10. Obviously this was a very high margin business for these places. They would get one copy of the game pirated through some back channel, and copy it indefinitely and sell it for like 95% profit.

The government didn't get involved at first either. I don't know where this came from, but for a few years we had games with "the sticker". This sticker was a holographic sticker acting as a seal of legitimacy from some ministry. Games with this sticker were more expensive, but guaranteed to be "legitimate". Or so we were lead to believe. They still came in just jewel cases, but with a printed CD and a manual. They were also a lot more expensive, but not expensive enough to be the price of real games, when I think about it in hindsight. I think very quickly the pirates figured out how to make this holographic seal and just basically started selling more "legit" looking pirated copies with a markup to people who were concerned about piracy.

Eventually we got companies who started to show interest in becoming video game distributors, and the police started cracking down on piracy. No longer could you go to a store and pick from racks upon racks of pirated games. They would have a folder containing lists and cover images of the selection they have, and the folder would be hidden behind a brick or under a compartment that comes loose in the counter, so that if they get raided by the police they wouldn't find anything. When you wanted to buy something, you had to have the trust of the store owner. They'd put a lookout and take out the folder. When you picked a game, instead of handing you a CD from a rack, they would send some kid to run off to a nearby apartment where they have their setup and the kid would burn a CD with the game and come back. It was some pretty advanced stuff.

The problem is the middle class in Turkey is not very rich, and the government imposed luxury taxes plus video game taxes on every imported game, and the dollar exchange rate was unfavorable so a game would cost 2-3 times as much as it did outside of the country. In that sense, Steam was a godsend. It wasn't taxed and you could get any game you want. It's basically the only feasible way to get games in Turkey still. Games have gotten even more expensive as the exchange rate plummeted.

The GFWL period was quite bad though, as you could buy a game on steam but GFWL wasn't available in Turkey so games would flat out not work even if you bought them. So pirating was the only option for those games.

I don't have my pulse on the piracy community in the country anymore since I don't live there, and it's probably gone even further underground if not completely disappeared due to modern DRM and steam and the government cracking down harder. And while I'm not proud of having pirated games in the past, it was really the only option when I was growing up, and I've tried to buy as many of those games as possible on gog or steam afterwards. There was an appeal to the stores that sold pirated games though, as you got to know the store owner and he would recommend you games and keep you updated on what's out and whatnot. Since we didn't have good internet access back then that was basically our game news and curation source. People would get together and discuss games at the store and hang out. I do miss that sense of community.
 

Djostikk

Member
Yeah, same for me. I'm not happy about buying non licensed games in the past, but that was the only option in my country back then. It's awesome that nowadays you can walk to any store and buy any game you want day one without worrying about pre-order and such, but I'm starting to rely more on digital, even though I like boxes and real game in my hands.
 

StarPhlox

Member
I'm really enjoying these anecdotes! It's very dissimilar to my experience growing up in the US where my much older brothers were also into gaming at least until they were teenagers so I had access to tons of games from Atari to SNES until I started getting my own stuff around the N64 era. Always got more than what I think any kid could hope for in that department.
 

nynt9

Member
Five more games that didn't make the top 100!

Sid Meier's Civilization V: Brave New World

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As I said, I'm a huge fan of Firaxis. Of course, you can't really be a fan of Firaxis if you're not into Civ. Which iteration is the best is kind of up for debate, but for me the sweet spot was V with the Brave New World expansion. VI is great too, but I feel like it's just not there yet. Anyway, the blend Civ has of grand strategy elements, 4X elements and general macromanagement is really enjoyable to me. I have hundreds of hours across all the games in the series, and I've been playing each iteration all my life since the first I played as a kid. Seeing the franchise grow with me was really interesting, and knowing that it's always a constant in my gaming life is a nice comfort.

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Civ hits that perfect balance of being casual enough that I can pick up and play a session any time, but deep enough that playing still feels meaningful. V particularly nailed it for my particular playstyle, where I focus on scientific development early on until I can crush the opponents who still have WWII tanks with my giant mechs. Of course it doesn't always play out as expected, but that's the charm. With more map and civ variety added with mods, the game is endlessly replayable. Obviously, VI being the later entry it has taken more of my time recently but there are many things about it that make me miss V, but I'm certain that, just like every previous iteration, the expansion pack will push VI above its predecessor.

Antichamber

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This is the game that I probably wanted to include in my top list the most. A very creative first person puzzle kinda-platformer that uses non-euclidean geometry, optical illusions, and a lot more to create puzzles unlike anything else. Honestly, it's such a unique experience and I don't think describing it works, so I'll just show a video. It's just full of clever moments that blow your mind when you figure them out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGsnm2nOnso

Command & Conquer: Generals

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Genereals is the underrated stepchild of the C&C series, but I loved it. Not as much as RA2, but still. The realistic setting was appealing, but for me the main draw was the very trolltastic guerilla tactics of the GLA. I mentioned earlier that I prefer weird factions that annoy enemies, and the GLA fit the bill. Especially in multiplayer, they had a general that let your buildings and units turn invisible, and a sniper unit that can kill many other units in a single shot. I got really good with that general and always had a great time in LAN games.

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Generals wasn't exceptionally well-received, which I thought was a shame. EA kind of killed the chances of the game having a proper sequel when they first greenlit a F2P sequel, then cancelled that after massive backlash. In general I think EA did a very poor job handling the C&C franchise, and Westwood are dead as we know it, but I hope one day the series can get a reboot or sequel that is worthy of its pedigree.

The Bureau: XCOM Declassified

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I'm sure you're scratching your head right now. This game started as a Bioshock clone, then got semi-cancelled, then got rebooted as a third person shooter that was rather poorly received. Why is it here? Well, beyond my love of the XCOM franchise, I think this game was actually pretty cool. I can explain, don't run away. It plays like a third person shooter where you can pause time and command your squad mates a la XCOM. It shares a lot of the gameplay language as the main game. The level design was generally pretty cool, the premise was interesting, and the aesthetic of classic Americana meets sci-fi alien invasion was cool. Sure, the original premise from the trailers looked a lot more interesting, but this game was cool enough on its own right.

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But here's the real deal. The game has a really interesting plot twist near the end that recontextualizes some things, and breaks the fourth wall in a pretty crazy way that justifies some of the game's idiosyncracies. It was quite brilliant, really. I don't wanna spoil it. but I'm sure you can look it up if you really want to. The encounter design kept ramping up and the game was quite enjoyable, but that revelation really put it over the top. I commend this game for going for that alone, but I also had a really good time with it.

Destiny: The Taken King

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I really didn't like vanilla Destiny. The criticism of it is pretty played out at this point, so I'll spare you. The Taken King fixed so much of it though. It gave the game a story, character, and lots of stuff to do. I've played a lot of MMOs in my time, so I'm always looking for a new one, and Destiny was in an interesting place where it has most of the things I look for in an MMO but also avoids a lot of the things I hate about them. I played this non-stop for months when it came out, just because how cool everything was. The environmental design in the Dreadnought was fantastic, the strikes and especially the Raid were super cool, and the gameplay loop itself is just incredibly satisfying.

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What really pulled me in was the extra, secret stuff. The worms, the chests, the emblems, the court of Oryx. Doing the very long and flavorful quests for the exotic weapons. The hunt for the Sleeper Stimulant, the ridiculous quest for the Black Spindle, the arduous endeavor for the sword, I loved that stuff. I love it when a game has unique, hard-to-get items that actually are hard to get and worth your time. Not some ridiculously low RNG like legendaries from WOW raid bosses, but stuff that you have to really work for and put in extracurricular effort for. I hope Destiny 2 delivers on that stuff, the feeling of uncovering secrets and really earning your rewards.

Yeah, same for me. I'm not happy about buying non licensed games in the past, but that was the only option in my country back then. It's awesome that nowadays you can walk to any store and buy any game you want day one without worrying about pre-order and such, but I'm starting to rely more on digital, even though I like boxes and real game in my hands.

I've gone hyper-digital these days, recently-ish moved and carrying around my collection is a huge hassle and I don't wanna deal with more games, I barely have enough space for what I own now.

I'm really enjoying these anecdotes! It's very dissimilar to my experience growing up in the US where my much older brothers were also into gaming at least until they were teenagers so I had access to tons of games from Atari to SNES until I started getting my own stuff around the N64 era. Always got more than what I think any kid could hope for in that department.

It's pretty interesting to think about how these different circumstances shape one's preferences as a gamer. Presumably you play mostly on consoles and have a preference for retro type games, maybe something like platformers? I don't think I ever played any significant amount of Atari games, unless I unknowingly played cross-platform games that happened to be on the system, as PC used to get random ports from time to time.
 

Farks!

Member
Yes, finally someone that agrees Crysis 2 is the best in the series! The openness of the first game is vastly exaggerated, and it has pretty mediocre encounter design and weapons feel. Crysis 2 fixed all of that.
 

nynt9

Member
Yes, finally someone that agrees Crysis 2 is the best in the series! The openness of the first game is vastly exaggerated, and it has pretty mediocre encounter design and weapons feel. Crysis 2 fixed all of that.

Yeah, as you can tell, I kind of agree. I mean, to be fair, Crysis 1 was groundbreaking in many ways, and it paved the way for sequels, but it was too open for its own good - sometimes some structure and limitation is necessary to make encounters interesting. A relatively flat island landscape just doesn't lend itself too well to that. Other developers like Ubisoft Montreal showed later that you can still have a nonlinear island and make it interesting, but Crytek just wasn't there with Crysis 1. 2 had actual level design and pacing, which was great.

I considered 3 as well, because the bow is just too perfect for the Crysis mechanics, but for some reason that game never clicked with me despite me really wanting to. It was like it was missing something that made 2 special. Oh, by the way, Warhead was also a big improvement over 1 - Psycho being an actual character and them getting to iterate on the formula to focus on parts that work better was great. But I wonder why it didn't work that well with 3 - they could have iterated on 2 and made something really incredible. I still liked the story and the game looked incredible, but for some reason the gameplay didn't feel up to par. Maybe it was too limited?
 

nynt9

Member
Well, it's time for the next entry into my top 100. This is probably going to be the spiciest bracket to date. I've also had a very difficult time rating these relative to each other. Let's jump right into it. This is gonna be long.


60: Super Mario 64 (DS)

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This game pretty much started and ended the conversation on full on 3D platforming. It's honestly kind of mind-blowing how great this game is. The level design is brilliant, incredibly simple and fully explores every facet of its mechanical design space. The music is great and iconic. The reuse of levels with different objectives is brilliant. I love Galaxy and 3DW as well, but to me 64 has a certain "classic" quality that makes it unsurpassed. I think it's a certain quality of simplicity that 64 has that the sequels (except for the 3D world/land games) just don't. Adding more mechanics just takes away from a formula that doesn't need more. The game doesn't become more fun when you can waggle your wii remote to spin, or have 4 different types of collectible or a water meter. It's just great as is.

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(I have a fondness for how the game originally looks instead of how it looks emulated)

The level design not being constrained by any sort of desire for reality helps as well. It lets them design weird geometry that makes no sense and is fun first, realistic later. While that approach may not work for other games, for a game purely based on the mechanics of platforming, it does. Also, I'd like to point out that the community surrounding this game, including speedrunning and stuff makes it feel alive in a sense. Pannenkoek still posts videos about glitches he discovers towards his minimal A press run (except mostly in his second channel). The speedruns are still an event and fun to watch, especially if it's a minimal run or a race or a 100% run. It's really an incredible classic. The DS remake is pretty fantastic too, adding a bunch of new content. It's objectively the better version of the game, but of course it isn't anywhere near as iconic and doesn't have many of the glitches the community use for the speedruns and stuff. You need a circle pad (or play it on the 3DS really) to get full value from it though.

59: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

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Yeah, it's here. There have been many detailed analysis videos on this game, and I've participated in many threads discussing those and the game in general, so I'm really not in the mood to retread a lot of that. Still, I guess I can express my thoughts here without having them framed against a thread's current. BOTW is an incredibly impressive game. It has a great world, one of the best open worlds especially in terms of world design. The sense of discovery is just fantastic. Everything surrounding the process of discovering and exploring (for example climbing) is amazing as well (except maybe climbing in the rain, but it's not a deal breaker). The rest of the aspects of the game aren't always as good, but overall it's mostly great, and if you play it primarily for the exploration it's just top notch.

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There's not too much point in quabbling over some of the flaws that have been discussed to death, like how the combat could have been a little bit better, how shrines aren't necessarily a replacement for dungeons, how some quests are kind of underwhelming, etc. I think those are mostly self-evident and while they are nuisances, they don't detract from the overall experience too much. My biggest gripe would be that a lot of the non-exploration aspects, especially combat, not being as interesting as the exploration, which kind of detracts from the exploration. If different areas had different monsters, the world felt more populated and lived-in, this game would receive a significant bump in my list, I think. It's hard to rate a game that is so transcendentally good in some areas and so surprisingly basic in others. But I think it's easy to say that this is one of the best Zelda games, one of the best open world games, one of the best Nintendo-made games, etc. It also feels like a game that just isn't made like this these days, as it's clearly received a lot more attention than any other open world game in recent memory. I haven't even touched on many aspects of the game, like the physics system. Yeah, great stuff.

58: Persona 5

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Yep, the other big release of recent memory. If this game hadn't come out and wasn't so good, SMT3: Nocturne would have been in my main list. But the games aren't distinct enough for me that I can justify keeping both in my list, so this knocks out SMT3 as part of the franchise rule. I know it might be blasphemous, but I just love Persona 5 so much. Previously I'd hold that SMT3 is the best JRPG of all time. Now, I thought that P4G was weak compared to SMT. The story didn't have bite, the battle system was nowhere near as interesting, the dungeons were terrible, and overall the game just didn't resonate with me as well, despite me really enjoying it overall. P5 fixes all that. The darker tone and more serious subject matter, the urban setting (you should have seen this coming), bringing in more SMT elements for the combat, having hand-designed dungeons with actual stuff happening in them, the game is just much, much better than P4 for me. And while I love SMT for its atmosphere and combat, P5 has enough of both of those that the non-combat related parts of it just push it over for me.

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Obviously, it's impossible to talk about P5 without mentioning how stylized it is and how incredible everything looks. It's really incredible. Just the menus of this game itself have more work in them than the entirery of many other games. The game is just a joy to play. The characters are a lot better this time as well. P4 had me gaming the system because I didn't care for most characters and I tried to pick the objectively better S-Link abilities, but here all of them provide meaningful bonuses and I actually want to know more about the characters themselves so I actually have a hard time choosing. The overall formula and balance feel much more refined as well. I kept going back and forth with the ranking of this and BOTW, but in the end this won out despite BOTW being better in several (but not all) ways for me, because I was pulled into a setting, a world that felt real and populated, with characters who have their own stories and motivations, and it simply being the prime example of its genre for me. I love BOTW, but every play session I can't help but think how it would be so much better with minor tweaks, whereas P5 is just basically perfect as it is. I also really appreciate virtual Tokyo tourism and I was pretty amazed that I can navigate some ingame areas by knowing their real life counterparts.

57: World of Warcraft (+ expansions)

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I fucking hate World of Warcraft. What? Yeah. Let me explain. I played this game at launch, and I played it for years. YEARS. Daily, religiously. I was so engrossed in the world. I think if you are grading simply based on the playing field itself, WOW has the best open world, by far. Taking all the locations you know from previous games and bringing them to life, then connecting them with real-feeling areas that also have good gameplay is no small feat. Yesterday I mentioned how much I enjoyed exploring every nook and cranny of the dreadnaught in Destiny's expansion. Well, WOW provided an entire world of that. So much to do, so much lore to ingest, and all of it can be shared with thousands of people. This is still to date the only MMO that works as a concept, despite its many flaws. It's an actual world, and it's so incredibly varied and full of content. It's honestly just incredible how full WOW's Azeroth was of stuff even just at launch. No developer can come close these days. There was so much going on too, with factions and micro-factions at war and many storylines to follow. Sure, none of it went anywhere, but Blizzard are the best at creating the illusion that the theme park MMO is actually more than just a Disneyland ride. It helps that they follow up on stuff in expansions, and they improve their storytelling and make the mechanics more engaging. Something like Alterac Valley is just not a gaming experience that you can find anywhere else. There was an entire community around this game, creating machinima, lore, content, and playing together. It was unlike anything else. Yet I can still remember the somber, small moments in the game, just me exploring the world. Stuff that felt like this:

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Now, on to the bad. I really hate the game's combat system. It's just clunky and uninteresting. At the time, it was on par with its peers like KOTOR, which was ok, but as the RPG genre moved on WOW didn't. Of course, I understand that they can't just change an MMO from the ground up. But oh wait, they did. They rehauled the entire world, the engine, the graphics, added phasing, even tried to add some stuff to make the combat less mind-numbing. But it never evolved significantly past its fundamentals, and that's annoying. Still, when you got a 40 man raid going, it was less about the awful combat and more about making the most of it by coordination and positioning. Would have been nice it was good on its own too though. Secondly, they got worse over time at making their questlines beyond the main ones compelling. As people started getting sick of fetch quests, they didn't react fast enough. Still, in Legion, there's a ton of annoying fetch quests. To be fair, WOTLK and Legion are overall fantastic expansions. Especially WOTLK. It being the last unanswered question in prior Warcraft lore, they were able to go all out on the storytelling and making it feel climactic and consequential. Legion doesn't have that, but they're tried really hard to tell interesting stories regardless. At this point it feels like they're running out of gas, but they've really put in the effort still. I also hate the game for some personal interactions I've had within it and how it shaped my social circles at the time, but that's water under the bridge at this point. I just don't feel the same sense of wonder from its world, as I think post-WOTLK they've focused on designing content for other facets of their audience. Which is fine. I've moved on. I still go back for new expansions, and I spent a decent chunk of time with Legion, but it's less me being immersed in the world and more just going through the motions. There are too many things to nitpick about and speculate as to why that happens, but it just does. Regardless, when WOW works, it's just a masterpiece.

56: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

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Oblivion is the most maligned entry in the series for many reasons, and it deserves most of it. The game did not age well. It wasn't the first Elder Scrolls game that came to consoles, but it felt like it didn't come from the same CRPG ethos that came to define the series up until this point. Morrowind is the game usually brought up when talking about RPGs that didn't have or need quest markers. The game used oral descriptions and directions, and was incredibly immersive for it. However, when oblivion came, it brought along quest markers with it. This resulted in a loss of complexity in gameplay, but it was probably to get with the times and appeal to a broader audience. I can understand that even though I don't prefer it. They tried to compensate for it in different ways. Each NPC now had daily life cycles, doing chores and walking around the place. Obviously it was fairly rudimentary, but it helped the game feel like it was alive. They also added a physics engine that was pretty pointless, but added a lot of enjoyment to what you could do with the game. I'll always be thankful for them doing this, because despite having no gameplay purpose it always made their games feel incredibly immersive, and it probably paved the way for BOTW.

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What I really loved about Oblivion was the guild questlines. The Dark Brotherhood story was fantastic. The characters introduced were all great and relatable, and I cared about all of them instead of just trying to hand in quests to advance. They kind of tried to recreate this with Skyrim but it didn't work nowhere near as well. The Thieves guild quest was also great, and its culmination in the tower and stealing the most important item in the series was pretty amazing. The end of the main story, however was infuriating. Just sitting there and watching as the meek guy from earlier beat the big bad was... something. I don't think Bethesda were trying to go for some ironic deconstruction on the hero narrative with this one either. It was just weird. I think if it were today's Bethesda they'd totally let you do it. Maybe it was a technical limitation at the time. Beyond these, I think the game is criticized generally for its fairly vanilla setting, but that's kind of how Cyrodiil is supposed to be, and I think that's convenient for Bethesda to deflect criticisms. In the end, Oblivion is a conflicted but great game. It definitely overreached for its time, and it made some missteps, but in the end it was a trailblazer and did so much right that I think it still deserves this spot. I replay it every once in a while and I still enjoy going through some quests I missed and even redoing ones I haven't, like getting back together with old friends.
 

StarPhlox

Member
Maaaaaaaaaan it seems early to be putting BotW and Persona 5 in a top 100 of all time list but...I think BotW deserves it and frankly your post made me want to go get Persona 5 ASAP--or just right after I finish Nier: Automata.

Super Mario 64 is an amazing game and I'm surprised how well the mechanics hold up but it really is so tight even 20 years later. Incredible how much Nintendo got right with a transition to 3D from 2D platforming.

While I'll probably never play Oblivion again I did have fun watching a friend beat it over winter break last year. Maybe I'll give the series another shot when we get portable Skyrim this fall on Switch.
 

nynt9

Member
Maaaaaaaaaan it seems early to be putting BotW and Persona 5 in a top 100 of all time list but...I think BotW deserves it and frankly your post made me want to go get Persona 5 ASAP--or just right after I finish Nier: Automata.

Super Mario 64 is an amazing game and I'm surprised how well the mechanics hold up but it really is so tight even 20 years later. Incredible how much Nintendo got right with a transition to 3D from 2D platforming.

While I'll probably never play Oblivion again I did have fun watching a friend beat it over winter break last year. Maybe I'll give the series another shot when we get portable Skyrim this fall on Switch.

It's pretty early, but in the case of P5 it's such a known quantity (because it's similar to previous games) that it's very easy to place, and BOTW is just very good. BOTW could easily have ended up in my top 25 and maybe even 15 if it fixed a few minor things and just had a world that felt more populated. Still, as it stands, it's great.

As for Oblivion, I don't know if I'd recommend it at this point. Skyrim is probably just better in most aspects. But at its time it was revolutionary and it still has some edges over Skyrim that I'll eventually get to discuss.

SM64 and BOTW are almost kind of comparable. They're both Nintendo stepping into a new paradigm and doing a very good job at their first attempt. I'd say SM64 nails the mark harder, but BOTW is much more ambitious and due to its size there's so much more it could get wrong than something as simple as SM64. Still, it feels right on some level to have those grouped together.
 

jdstorm

Banned
It's pretty early, but in the case of P5 it's such a known quantity (because it's similar to previous games) that it's very easy to place, and BOTW is just very good. BOTW could easily have ended up in my top 25 and maybe even 15 if it fixed a few minor things and just had a world that felt more populated. Still, as it stands, it's great.

As for Oblivion, I don't know if I'd recommend it at this point. Skyrim is probably just better in most aspects. But at its time it was revolutionary and it still has some edges over Skyrim that I'll eventually get to discuss.

SM64 and BOTW are almost kind of comparable. They're both Nintendo stepping into a new paradigm and doing a very good job at their first attempt. I'd say SM64 nails the mark harder, but BOTW is much more ambitious and due to its size there's so much more it could get wrong than something as simple as SM64. Still, it feels right on some level to have those grouped together.

It really bugs me when people say this. BotW is great, but it clearly isn't their first attempt at an open world, even if you ignore the open world elements in Wind Waker. Monolith Soft was a major contributor on BotW and their last 2 titles (Xenoblade Chronicles and Xenoblade Chronicles X) have shown remarkable open world progression. Chronicles is more wide linear then a true open world, while XCX is a true and typical open world in every sense of the definition.
 

nynt9

Member
It really bugs me when people say this. BotW is great, but it clearly isn't their first attempt at an open world, even if you ignore the open world elements in Wind Waker. Monolith Soft was a major contributor on BotW and their last 2 titles (Xenoblade Chronicles and Xenoblade Chronicles X) have shown remarkable open world progression. Chronicles is more wide linear then a true open world, while XCX is a true and typical open world in every sense of the definition.

I picked my words carefully to not say it's their first open world. It's their first attempt at a new paradigm. Yes, they had kinda-open-world games like older Zeldas, and Xenoblades are very MMO-like and open world, but I think that Zelda is an attempt at the modern open world formula of towers, collectibles, etc. Maybe with XCX it's a bit of an arbitrary distinction, but it still feels like it's not the same paradigm to me.
Also my brain kind of erased all memories of XCX for self preservation purposes :p (no offense to those who liked it, but I really, really didn't despite loving XC)
 

jdstorm

Banned
I picked my words carefully to not say it's their first open world. It's their first attempt at a new paradigm. Yes, they had kinda-open-world games like older Zeldas, and Xenoblades are very MMO-like and open world, but I think that Zelda is an attempt at the modern open world formula of towers, collectibles, etc. Maybe with XCX it's a bit of an arbitrary distinction, but it still feels like it's not the same paradigm to me.
Also my brain kind of erased all memories of XCX for self preservation purposes :p (no offense to those who liked it, but I really, really didn't despite loving XC)

OK fair enough. I probably didnt pay enough attention to your specific word choice. Breath of the Wild is certainly the closest Nintendo has gotten to the Ubisoft open world formula which permeates modern open world design.
As much as places like GAF like to complain, i think most people including GAF somewhat love UbiTowers
However to me it feels more itterative then a significant paradigm shift from Nintendo's pervious work. Especially compared to games like Mario 64, Ocarina of Time or Metroid Prime which have all played a significant role in shaping 3D gaming as we know it.

In many ways to me BotW feels like a PG rated Just Cause with puzzles and more creative physics tools. Its a great game and in many ways is a new standard in what can be achieved, but i'm not sure its beyond what we currently have.

Suprisingly i felt that about another game this year. However unfortunately Final Fantasy XV is such a mess that it doesn't manage to coherently communicate what it has managed to pull off (which it only does in limited spurts)
 

nynt9

Member
OK fair enough. I probably didnt pay enough attention to your specific word choice. Breath of the Wild is certainly the closest Nintendo has gotten to the Ubisoft open world formula which permeates modern open world design.
As much as places like GAF like to complain, i think most people including GAF somewhat love UbiTowers
However to me it feels more itterative then a significant paradigm shift from Nintendo's pervious work. Especially compared to games like Mario 64, Ocarina of Time or Metroid Prime which have all played a significant role in shaping 3D gaming as we know it.

In many ways to me BotW feels like a PG rated Just Cause with puzzles and more creative physics tools. Its a great game and in many ways is a new standard in what can be achieved, but i'm not sure its beyond what we currently have.

Suprisingly i felt that about another game this year. However unfortunately Final Fantasy XV is such a mess that it doesn't manage to coherently communicate what it has managed to pull off (which it only does in limited spurts)

I mean I love Ubisoft towers even though no actual ubitower game made it into my main list. I think it feels like a paradigm shift because it shows them being more willing than ever to look at Western games and take (and repurpose) elements and integrate them into their formula. But it only really, truly nails it in the exploration part. In other parts they kind of stay closer to their comfort zone and it shows. Well, regardless, still a great game.

As for FFXV, I thought it was great when it clicked, and ok and kinda messy when it didn't. It played really well, but the lack of story coherence was the real issue. Still, overall I liked it. Its flaws were not in the gameplay per se, so it was totally enjoyable to play through.
 

jdstorm

Banned
I mean I love Ubisoft towers even though no actual ubitower game made it into my main list. I think it feels like a paradigm shift because it shows them being more willing than ever to look at Western games and take (and repurpose) elements and integrate them into their formula. But it only really, truly nails it in the exploration part. In other parts they kind of stay closer to their comfort zone and it shows. Well, regardless, still a great game.

As for FFXV, I thought it was great when it clicked, and ok and kinda messy when it didn't. It played really well, but the lack of story coherence was the real issue. Still, overall I liked it. Its flaws were not in the gameplay per se, so it was totally enjoyable to play through.

Yeah FFXV definitely has some faults. However what i thought it got right, for a breif moment around chapter 6, was that it managed to translate the pacing of a linear action game to a themepark style open world. I thought how it tied together its use of multiple paralell questlines and pushed everything forward with narative momentum was pretty great. It felt like they almost made a choice to not just focus on each quest having a flow, but worked a lot on creating an overall flow between the quests was something that hasn't been achieved often enough by other AAA titles and i can only think of a handful of titles that have gotten close.

Edit: Sorry if i am coming across as overly negative. Its just there is only so many times someone can type "Great thread,I agree with you" before it becomes uninteresting.
 

Nuu

Banned
I can certainly see why Persona 5 would be on the list, but to me as a general rule I don't include anything I played less than 6 months ago. It's crazy how time can treat a game both unfavorably, as well as favorably, as it goes on.
 

nynt9

Member
I can certainly see why Persona 5 would be on the list, but to me as a general rule I don't include anything I played less than 6 months ago. It's crazy how time can treat a game both unfavorably, as well as favorably, as it goes on.

I did play it on Japanese release as well, didn't finish it then though, does that count? :p

Jokes aside, I know what you mean, but I also think that I have enough experience to have a feel for these things for the most part. Also, in the case of P5, as I said, it's basically a replacement and Persona is a known quantity anyway. It technically does very few things new, it just does them much better than already existing entries so it's a very direct comparison.

Yeah FFXV definitely has some faults. However what i thought it got right, for a breif moment around chapter 6, was that it managed to translate the pacing of a linear action game to a themepark style open world. I thought how it tied together its use of multiple paralell questlines and pushed everything forward with narative momentum was pretty great. It felt like they almost made a choice to not just focus on each quest having a flow, but worked a lot on creating an overall flow between the quests was something that hasn't been achieved often enough by other AAA titles and i can only think of a handful of titles that have gotten close.

Edit: Sorry if i am coming across as overly negative. Its just there is only so many times someone can type "Great thread,I agree with you" before it becomes uninteresting.

No worries whatsoever. I like the discussion. I agree with you on FFXV for the most part. I see many of its flaws and have many gripes and wish it was better, but for some reason I was able to enjoy them despite those flaws. Not top 100 enjoy, but have a good time with it.

Like you said, the game does a pretty good job of making the story flow when it's on point. At other times it's so jarring and confusing that I feel like I accidentally skipped a chapter or something, though.
 

StarPhlox

Member
Final Fantasy XV was my GOTY last year and I still think it deserved it in terms of how it gripped me for the brief time I spent mainlining the game and not attending to the dozens of hours of sidequests one could get into.

I loved the atmosphere it evoked and the relatively smaller scale of things that made the cast feel like brothers. You had the same party at the start as you did at the end in the strictest sense, but to me their growth was evident and it hit home for me as I reflected on my own relationships with my 3 brothers. Also, I had watched the anime and played all the demos and watched Kingsglaive as well, which all enhanced my enjoyment and in a tangible way and made the whole thing less confusing.

Initially I fully intended to go back to XV after finishing the main quest but, much like Breath of the Wild, it just feels odd to return to that world after the end credits because of how it's handled. So although I adored XV I just needed it to be what it was--a smaller, more intimate Final Fantasy game that played extremely well, looked beautiful, and made me feel a wealth of powerful emotions.
 
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