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"I preached against homosexuality, but I was wrong"

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L

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
The Lamp said:
Anybody who examines and studies the Bible can be a "comparative expert" in the field of....the Bible.
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poor word choice, I meant a relative expert in comparison to him or me...
 
C

Crisis

Banned
Gay people, I love you all. I mean it. No trolling here. You put up with a ton of bullshit from people like that, and it's nice to see at least one of them (whether sincerely or not) realize that the actions they do are wrong.
 
J

José Mourinho

cocknose
krypt0nian said:
Because they are hating something that people are born with. The "sin" is not a choice. These aren't principles they are hating.

The cop out part comes from expecting that people not act on their natural sexual urges. To not be fully fleshed out people.
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Still don't see how it's a cop out on the religious persons part. It may not be correct, but it's not a cop out. Why would that be any more a cop out than not expecting somebody to commit adultery?

They think something is wrong, so in their opinion, they don't think people should do it. That doesn't mean they hate the person because of it.

I'm not defending it, just saying.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
viakado said:
"if you love me, follow my commandments." -jesus
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Jesus' teachings and "commandments" are quite different from the Old Testament though; his entire message was that the Law was fulfilled through him. When the Jews rejected his message and the Romans crucified him, God raised up Paul as the apostle to the Gentiles; that was later further confirmed in his meeting with Peter where he departed to continue preaching his message of grace to Gentiles whereas Peter departed to preach the Kingdom message to the Jews.

In short the Law was never given to Gentiles, and as it was fulfilled by Jesus' death it's not an issue today. But since modern Christians reject this, they continue to add various things onto the message and confuse it (Baptism, tongues, tithes, etc). When salvation is simply through Jesus, Christians want you to jump through hoops and follow the laws they like while ignoring the laws they don't.

But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] unto the dogs.
Mark 7:27

I don't want to derail the thread further so I'll apologize and back out.
 
H

Herpes Reasons

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Jesus' teachings and "commandments" are quite different from the Old Testament though; his entire message was that the Law was fulfilled through him. When the Jews rejected his message and the Romans crucified him, God raised up Paul as the apostle to the Gentiles; that was later further confirmed in his meeting with Peter where he departed to continue preaching his message of grace to Gentiles whereas Peter departed to preach the Kingdom message to the Jews.

In short the Law was never given to Gentiles, and as it was fulfilled by Jesus' death it's not an issue today. But since modern Christians reject this, they continue to add various things onto the message and confuse it (Baptism, tongues, tithes, etc). When salvation is simply through Jesus, Christians want you to jump through hoops and follow the laws they like while ignoring the laws they don't.

But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] unto the dogs.
Mark 7:27

I don't want to derail the thread further so I'll apologize and back out.
Click to expand...
what is this law that you speak of that was never given to the gentiles?
i know of only one set.
 
B

besada

Banned
A Human Becoming said:
I don't really have a problem with it, I just wish his "news" would be more diverse.
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Then post your own articles? Gaborn's not paid to entertain you with news, nor address your weird perception of his "agenda". Like everyone else, he posts what interests him.

On topic, it's always nice when someone finds the plot.
 
K

krypt0nian

Banned
Kylehimself said:
Still don't see how it's a cop out on the religious persons part. It may not be correct, but it's not a cop out. Why would that be any more a cop out than not expecting somebody to commit adultery?

They think something is wrong, so in their opinion, they don't think people should do it. That doesn't mean they hate the person because of it.

I'm not defending it, just saying.
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It's cop out as they are trying to make themselves look better in the eyes of the world, and their followers that may be realizing that they are institutional bigots that pick and choose what to obey in the bible.

Just because stupid opinions come from religious sources doesn't give them automatic respect.
 
V

VALIS

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
Now if only all Chrisitans started thinking this way.
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I'm no expert, but I think a lot of them do, actually. Urban Catholics, anyway. At least in my experience.
 
mclaren777

mclaren777

Member
This guy sounds like a terrible pastor. I'm disgusted that he seems to be putting his feelings above biblical teaching and he seems too worried about church attendance to speak the truth in peoples' lives.

I'm glad that he has left the ministry.
 
S

Slappers Only

Junior Member
krypt0nian said:
Great in concept but are you suggesting the the people who have the privilege of marriage according to the state would voluntarily give that up so everyone could have the same equality?

People go kicking and screaming when you even suggest that their rights are compromised.
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This is more along the lines of what I meant. As in, I would give up this privilege if some people aren't entitled to the same thing.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
krypt0nian said:
Because they are hating something that people are born with. The "sin" is not a choice. These aren't principles they are hating.

The cop out part comes from expecting that people not act on their natural sexual urges. To not be fully fleshed out people.
Click to expand...

Well said. To expand on that: We don't as a society give a pass to or condone the KKK and the David Dukes of the world for their racism. Nor do we just shrug our shoulders and say "well that's what they believe" to Holocaust deniers or people that condemn any other people based on an innate characteristic. We confront them, we dispute it with them, we socially stigmatize these negative views towards other groups. (some European countries make things like Holocaust denial illegal, something I do NOT support) but when it comes to gays it suddenly goes back to "it's just their religious opinion."

How many ills in society have been defended because it's "just their religion? And I'm not blind to the fact that religion has historically been a major force for good as well. Abolitionist arguments were couched in religion at least as often as pro-slavery arguments (if not more so). Science, culture, historically all major equality movements - have been bolstered by religion.

But the flip side of that is also true. I completely agree with Mr. Richmond when he points out that churches often focus on homosexuality precisely because it's "easy" to do so. How many church goers would tolerate the absolutist message on gays if it were put towards anyone who has ever been divorced? What about people guilty of gluttony? Or anyone who ever had premarital sex, what if a church was constantly preaching about that? How about shunning and shaming anyone who has ever told a lie in their life?

Don't kid yourself. The modern church is a business and it's using homosexuality not because it's sinful (though I'm not necessarily disputing whether it is or is not sinful) but because it's a point people in those churches can agree on - because it's easier to attack that than look at your own issues.
 
mclaren777

mclaren777

Member
And in regards to this comment of his...

"But the constitution of the Presbyterian Church does not explicitly forbid a pastor from being a thief, a murderer, or an egotistical jerk. It is not designed to do these things. It does prohibit a gay person from becoming a pastor. All I can ask is: Why?"


I would point to passages like 1 Timothy 3:2-3 where Paul talks about the qualifications for leadership...

"The overseer then must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, an able teacher, not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not contentious, free from the love of money."
 
K

krypt0nian

Banned
mclaren777 said:
And in regards to this comment of his...

"But the constitution of the Presbyterian Church does not explicitly forbid a pastor from being a thief, a murderer, or an egotistical jerk. It is not designed to do these things. It does prohibit a gay person from becoming a pastor. All I can ask is: Why?"


I would point to passages like 1 Timothy 3:2-3 where Paul talks about the qualifications for leadership...

"The overseer then must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, an able teacher, not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not contentious, free from the love of money."
Click to expand...


You're so zany. It's cute!

I would like to offer this description from A Game of Thrones that has equal bearing to what Paul said:

Ser Waymar Royce was the youngest son of an ancient house with too many heirs. He was a handsome youth of eighteen, grey-eyed and graceful and slender as a knife. Mounted on his huge black destrier, the knight towered above Will and Gared on their smaller garrons. He wore black leather boots, black woolen pants, black moleskin gloves, and a fine supple coat of gleaming black ringmail over layers of black wool and boiled leather. Ser Waymar had been a Sworn Brother of the Night’s Watch for less than half a year, but no one could say he had not prepared for his vocation. At least insofar as his wardrobe was concerned.
His cloak was his crowning glory; sable, thick and black and soft as sin. “Bet he killed them all himself, he did,” Gared told the barracks over wine, “twisted their little heads off, our mighty warrior.” They had all shared the laugh.
Click to expand...
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
mclaren777 said:
And in regards to this comment of his...

"But the constitution of the Presbyterian Church does not explicitly forbid a pastor from being a thief, a murderer, or an egotistical jerk. It is not designed to do these things. It does prohibit a gay person from becoming a pastor. All I can ask is: Why?"


I would point to passages like 1 Timothy 3:2-3 where Paul talks about the qualifications for leadership...

"The overseer then must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, an able teacher, not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not contentious, free from the love of money."
Click to expand...
I don't think that supports the position like you think it does.

It appears to have been meant to make clear the discouragement for polygamy. I wouldn't take anything more from it than that.
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
A Human Becoming said:
As much as I like the news stories you post Gaborn, I can't help but notice and be troubled by the pattern of what you choose to post. With an estimated 50% of your stories involving homosexuality, it's clear you have your own interests.
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Fixed that for you. People post about what interests them. News at 11?
 
W

WascallyWabbit

Member
really well written, as a christian i did kinda hope that he would elaborate more on the nuances in the bible. But i suppose i should be doing the research on my own.

I think it's really sad religious people get into the "us vs. them" mode when talking about gays as if they were some different species. That kind of rhetoric makes it easier for people to hate something and treat gays in an inhumane way
 
K

Koodo

Banned
Bless his soul.

He probably realized that, if there is a Hell, he was buying his admission ticket by discriminating and passing judgment on an entire group of people.

Too bad for all those other Christians that remain bigoted. Must suck going to bed knowing that Heaven of theirs will have the doors shut real good for them.
 
I

itxaka

Defeatist
PhoenixDark said:
Well I'm black and handsome. a/s/l?
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As much as I like your posts PhoenixDark, I can't help but notice and be troubled by the pattern of what you choose to post. With an estimated 50% of your stories involving Black people, it's clear you have your own agenda.
 
N

Nappuccino

Member
mclaren777 said:
This guy sounds like a terrible pastor. I'm disgusted that he seems to be putting his feelings above biblical teaching and he seems too worried about church attendance to speak the truth in peoples' lives.

I'm glad that he has left the ministry.
Click to expand...

Uh.... ok? My sarcasm meter has to be broken because its not detecting anything here.
 
K

krypt0nian

Banned
Nappuccino said:
Uh.... ok? My sarcasm meter has to be broken because its not detecting anything here.
Click to expand...

Look forward to mclaren777's posts. He's secretly testing out material for his stand up act here.
 
A

Aristion

Banned
Beer Monkey said:
The Old Testament is pretty clear on homosexuality. Of course, Christians aren't really living under the covenants of the Old Testament or they wouldn't eat shellfish, touch the skin of a dead pig, feel that slavery is wrong, and so on.

The New Testament isn't really that clear at all.

Best part of the Old Testament? That it tells you not to have sex with your brother's wife, or your daughter in law, or your fathers wife, or your mother in law, or your uncle's wife. But sex with your own daughter? Apparently OK.
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You haven't read the New Testament, have you?
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
mclaren777 said:
This guy sounds like a terrible pastor. I'm disgusted that he seems to be putting his feelings above biblical teaching and he seems too worried about church attendance to speak the truth in peoples' lives.

I'm glad that he has left the ministry.
Click to expand...
god I know how dare he change his mind and see that homosexuality is actually ok
 
A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
itxaka said:
As much as I like your posts PhoenixDark, I can't help but notice and be troubled by the pattern of what you choose to post. With an estimated 50% of your stories involving Black people, it's clear you have your own agenda.
Click to expand...

You just won't let it go will you? The only people talking about it now are those who read my first post and failed to read anything after.
 
M

Madrin

Member
It sounds like he had a change of heart that subsequently skewed his interpretation of scripture. From what I've seen, the Bible's stance against homosexuality is stated pretty clearly.

Not that I believe in it myself, but if you're going to live according to the Bible you have to be consistent.
 
B

Bulbo Urethral Baggins

Banned
The Lamp said:
What about 1 Corinthians 6:9?
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"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men"

Well... That pretty much covers everyone. We're all screwed.
 
I

itxaka

Defeatist
A Human Becoming said:
You just won't let it go will you? The only people talking about it now are those who read my first post and failed to read anything after.
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I was joking man, chill out. I have nothing against you, it was a joke.
 
T

Tntnnbltn

Member
SnakeswithLasers said:
Literal interpretation of the old testament also means you believe the earth was created in six days. Most Christians accept evolution, which runs counter to a rigid belief in allegory as literal truth, as it is a legitimate scientific theory.
Click to expand...
 
Z

Zenith

Banned
mclaren777 said:
This guy sounds like a terrible pastor. I'm disgusted that he seems to be putting his feelings above biblical teaching and he seems too worried about church attendance to speak the truth in peoples' lives.

I'm glad that he has left the ministry.
Click to expand...

Hey, I know you. You're the kid who compared being homesexual to bestiality.
 
K

Koodo

Banned
krypt0nian said:
Grrrr
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27ys428.jpg
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Count Dookkake said:
"I took a back-door approach to the subject."
Click to expand...

So I'm not the only one that giggled at the bad choice of phrasing on that.
 
J

José Mourinho

cocknose
Gaborn said:
Well said. To expand on that: We don't as a society give a pass to or condone the KKK and the David Dukes of the world for their racism. Nor do we just shrug our shoulders and say "well that's what they believe" to Holocaust deniers or people that condemn any other people based on an innate characteristic.
Click to expand...
Of course we don't. But these are people who are open, and vocal about their racist opinions.

All I'm saying is this, I know plenty of religious people who because of their religion think homosexuality is wrong. This is not a view a share, but that's that.
Now, said people don't trash talk gay people, they don't treat them any differently socially. They act to them as they would anybody else. The only difference being that the think if a gay person wants to be a Christian then they have to abstain. But then, why wouldn't they? It's part of what they are taught and believe.
This isn't perfect, not by a long shot, but I'm sorry, this is not the same as these KKK guys. There are religious assholes out there who do picket gay pride parades, who hurl abuse and all the rest of it. I honestly don't think the latter can be grouped with the former.

I guess in my opinion it's just like if somebody has some sort of bad opinion about me. If they never treat me different or let be known, then what do I care? If somebody makes it clear that they hate you, then there's a problem.
 
mclaren777

mclaren777

Member
Zenith said:
Hey, I know you. You're the kid who compared being homesexual to bestiality.
Click to expand...
I'm just letting you know what the Bible says. Perversion is perversion no matter what form it takes.

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion." -- Leviticus 18:22-23
 
C

Count Dookkake

Member
Does anyone really "lie with a male as one lies with a female"?

I mean, one has a vagina, the other does not.

You can't "lie" the same way with them.

Stupid god.
 
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