Hey now, douchebags with Asperger's are still douchebags by choice.
Speaking in general of course, some people (like this guy) are more likely to just merely be jerks.
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Fez's dev to japanese developers: "your games just suck"
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Hey now, douchebags with Asperger's are still douchebags by choice.
Speaking in general of course, some people (like this guy) are more likely to just merely be jerks.
charlequin
Banned
Man, the burns kind of write themselves here, huh?
Yeah, I think people are focusing a little too much on Phil's problems as a developer here and not enough on how regardless of your resume you shouldn't be a huge asshole
I am supremely confident that it will, and that like every other XBLA timed exclusive no one's allowed to talk about it until the exclusivity window is over; Phil just chose about the dumbest possible way to cover for that.
Yeah, I think people are focusing a little too much on Phil's problems as a developer here and not enough on how regardless of your resume you shouldn't be a huge asshole
I am supremely confident that it will, and that like every other XBLA timed exclusive no one's allowed to talk about it until the exclusivity window is over; Phil just chose about the dumbest possible way to cover for that.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
hm, let me just look at this small representation of japanese current generation games:
yap, they suck alright...
yap, they suck alright...
Oh wait, crap. I was thinking of Castlevania HD. Haven't play LoS.
Hot Coldman
Banned
This this this. The end products shouldn't be under anywhere near as much scrutiny as their development techniques should. Stuff like KojiPro failing to make a fucking game is a perfect sign of this (at least they know it too).
Phil isn't anyone yet though. I'll get Fez day one if I can, the game looks marvelous, but he hasn't proven himself. He can say it on a messageboard or in a tweet, whatever, that's just expressing his opinion, but to say it to a dev's face? Fuck that.
Isn't it more that western development gained ground more instead of Japanese development lagging behind?
Backfoggen
Banned
Dude has his head up his own ass.
Fez isn't made by just 1 guy. Polytron has 3 people iirc (phil fish (artist/designer), renaud bedard who does pretty much all the programming, and vreeland who does audio).
I see enough visual similarities to call Fish on his shit. Also took five years to make, but without MS publishing money and so forth, just one dude in his spare time.
Fez is certainly strongly inspired by Cave Story. It's the biggest influence among most indie game developers; it pretty much kickstarted the movement. Fish would definitely admit as much.
I think this kind of generalization is just as bad as the one fish apparently made at gdc. Who is to say phil fish doesn't play tons of japanese games, and that his opinion stems from that kind of ignorance? (Not that you could tell one way or another from what he reportedly said). I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think you're using similar reasoning, making the same mistake he did.
Blow is every bit as arrogant, but he is significantly more intelligent so his insults are generally between the lines. Fish seems to just be a bomb throwing idiot who has taken half a decade to mash up Mario and Crush.
Sentenza
Member
I actually have a lot of respect for Jonathan Blow's opinion.
Not just cause Braid was a goddamn jewel, but because he always argued about his ideas in a pretty thoughtful (and polite) way.
I never heard Blow pulling shit out of his ass or being plainly disrespectful. When he argues about design he knows what he's talking about.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Who besides Square Enix has excessive dev times? I don't know of any other Japanese studios that do this. Most Japanese studios don't even announce their games until they're almost done.
Japanese developers deserve some criticism for their performance this generation, but I don't think long dev time is one of them.
Adherence to platforms that western gamers have no interest in? Sure.
An interest in gameplay mechanics that western gamers have no interest in? Sure.
Using art styles unappealing to western audiences? Sure.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
As the article said, Jonathan Blow also offered criticism of current Japanese game design, but it was "constructive" i.e. not "you suck."
No need to spin this into support for disliking Blow, who has never been anything other than articulate in his opinions as far as I am aware.
Guy sounds like a class-A ass. Even reading his Twitter, he doesn't realize his statement generalizes the entire country's games output, rather than limit it to a few games he isn't fond of - which I take it is most likely the case.
At least tell the dev what you think is wrong with Japanese games. Rather than sound like an arrogant prick.
At least tell the dev what you think is wrong with Japanese games. Rather than sound like an arrogant prick.
I wonder why people are getting worked up on Fish now.
It's his personality. He's always been direct and loud. It's not is first comment of the sort and you guys just don't worry, he will NOT give a fuck.
It's also part of why Fez took so long to make anyways (his extreme personality).
It's his personality. He's always been direct and loud. It's not is first comment of the sort and you guys just don't worry, he will NOT give a fuck.
It's also part of why Fez took so long to make anyways (his extreme personality).
Phil is usually a little too harsh for my tastes but in this instance I agree full to the tippy-top. Can't think of the last piece of software or hardware from Japan I was really anxious to get hold of
I also think it's funny that people are criticizing him for taking so long to make a game when the Japanese companies he's criticizing take just as long, with hundred-men workforces, and still make terrible games
I also think it's funny that people are criticizing him for taking so long to make a game when the Japanese companies he's criticizing take just as long, with hundred-men workforces, and still make terrible games
SafeinSound
Member
How long has Fez been in development for now haha
MightyHedgehog
Member
Crudely put and sounding a bit too generalized, but I agree with the sentiment if he's referring to how Japanese console games have lost the spotlight and a lot of their classic charms in the transition to directly compete with and be more influenced by Western counterparts who have come to dominate the industry. A lot of longtime gamers I know feel this way. This generation's Japanese developers have mostly failed to connect with me compared to every gen previous. There's just a distinct lack of the sort of games with a sort of charm I desire and sorta expect outta Japanese standbys and, with exception of some nice re-releases and a few original DD titles, they really haven't happened this gen on console at all. Now, if you're talking portables, well...not my thing until they start coming with video/HDMI out as standard.
Pretty much.
I agree, but Blow has a certain reputation among the uneducated whether or not it's valid.
nckillthegrimace
Member
SCEJ
shadyspace
Banned
People need to focus more on the fact that he said this to some aspiring kid's face in the midst of a crowd of people. He didn't shoot his mouth off in an interview. He didn't post a dumb opinion on Twitter (intially, anyway). On the most base of fucking human levels, that shit is abhorrent and without excuse. Cut and dry. Fuck him.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I'm now happier about not giving a flying fuck about Fez
This is why these indie developers either need to have common sense about professionalism or just stop spouting garbage.
Also I understand the guy could be criticizing Japanese game development process but looking at how long his game is taking, he really got no credibility on that subject.
Also I understand the guy could be criticizing Japanese game development process but looking at how long his game is taking, he really got no credibility on that subject.
Rollo Lawson
Banned
that is to say that every western dev house is a beacon of light lol
lets not pretend western devs aren't putting out more bad than good just the same...
BOOM
sixteen-bit
Member
lol, same boat.
and to be fair to fish, he did say 'modern japanese games' and cave story is like eight years old now
Riposte
Member
The same old characters pop up in threads like this. Mainly posters you should ignore (probably generally, but at least on the topic of Japanese games).
Oh he did
Oh, I agree completely and I find it distasteful as well. Thing is that I am talking about Japan specifically which has such a rich history of games that makes people expect more inspiring products from them. My main complaint isn't sequels to be honest but rather the time some of devs take to make certain games. Best examples: FFXIII, FFvXIII, GT5, TLG etc. I'd say that this has been a problem ever since the adoption of HD graphics this gen. But to look on the bright side we got memorable games like: Dark Souls, Demon Souls, Bayonetta, Catherine, Lost Odyssey, MGS4 and so many more on PSP and 3DS.
As someone said before, it's a matter of visibility as well. There are too many average games coming out and over shadowing the good games. It's just like everywhere else really in that regard.
that's what bothers me most. I love the Giant Bomb guys and they shit on Japanese games all the time, that isn't the problem.
But berating a dude and his country and his talent in front of an entire room of his peers and colleagues? For absolutely no reason out of the blue? Holy shit dude.
i wish that dev was Shiggy. biggest news ever.
Just because you're not interested in Japanese games doesn't mean they suck. I love platformers, but don't like Megaman. I don't go around saying they suck just because I don't like them.
slaughterking
Member
Indeed. Not cool, man.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
So, S-E and SCEJ. That isn't an industry. That's two companies. And even with SCEJ, you're probably talking about Team ICO, which is a single team.
Blizzard takes forever to release games too. WESTERN DEVELOPMENT TAKES TOO LONG!
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Didn't give a shit about Fez before. Now I won't even bother being LTTP.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Exactly. Just imagine being the guy who got to come to GDC and is all excited about asking a question to this panel only to get this thrown back at him. It's unprofessional and arrogant to the extreme (not to mention ignorant).
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
When either side gains ground, the overall standards shift. Whether you call it lagging behind or just "failing to improve" or whatever doesn't change much. Failing to gain ground while the standards increase is lagging behind.
Note: I am making no claims about whether or not Japanese devs really are lagging behind.
Ninja Scooter
Member
explain to me how it's different other than the fact that he put his real name and face behind his dumb, hyperbolic comment?
So you're crushed by the lack of charm, as a primary reason for why Japanese games suck nowadays, but you're willing to ignore a million charming titles because of resolution and screen size?
You don't see the problem with this?
Yep. I couldn't give a fucking about his game or his opinion on other games, but the fact that he said that to someone who was clearly enthusiastic about the subject and wanted to get his opinion on a Japanese games only to be met with lol ur gamez sucks mean that hes a grade a asshole.
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