Miles Quaritch
Member
Japan still relevant going into next gen?
Not sure it will be. Hasn't the market almost exclusively shifted to mobile and handheld gaming?
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MCV: Retail sources talk used Xbox One games, £35 for used game in UK [U2: Eurogamer]
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
Japan still relevant going into next gen?
Not sure it will be. Hasn't the market almost exclusively shifted to mobile and handheld gaming?
Actually it's very simple to understand. 5 million copies of a new game get sold. Over the lifetime of the product 2 million get traded in and resold. That's 7 million copies being played by individuals, yet only 5 million were bought from the publisher. Your argument that that trade in went to a purchase of a new game only works part of the time, because they may also get cash or trade in for other used games. It may also be toward a game for another system or other publisher. The fact is the one gaining the most is the store doing the used game trading and sales. The next one is the consumer who was able to get some money toward another product and the publisher gets nothing. This has and will continue to be an issue for a while until something changes. This is what is happening now. We don't like it, but the system is broken. The consumer is getting 40% of what its worth and the store is selling it for 10% less than a new copy so they make a 50% margin. think about it.
Jacksonlee
Member
i understand why people seem unbrushed by this anti-consumer act that MS is trying to pull.
if sony did this, i would be as angry as ever, but also sad, since all my gaming exclusive is there. (see ND)
whilst not support this disgusting advaancement to take away our right and limit the way we buy things, i would feel dissapointed by the fact i can't play those great games...
- for MS, i don't give a shit about any of their games, so it's an easy matter.
but seriously.
the bad outweights the good.
if sony did this, i would be as angry as ever, but also sad, since all my gaming exclusive is there. (see ND)
whilst not support this disgusting advaancement to take away our right and limit the way we buy things, i would feel dissapointed by the fact i can't play those great games...
- for MS, i don't give a shit about any of their games, so it's an easy matter.
but seriously.
the bad outweights the good.
So, in other words, they really want to go full digital distribution, but can't due to bandwidth restrictions and retailer pressure. Instead we get this compromise scenario, adding the benefits(and restrictions!) of digital purchases to physical purchases.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
He's talking about actual game prices which a used game market actually effects to some degree. It may lead to large discrepancy in price occurring more commonly in a games lifetime.
Sure there can, Sony is not beholden to play fair with Microsoft. Microsoft has no control over how Sony conducts their busniess, and the likelyhood that western publishers are going to dictate otherwise to a company who gets a large chunk of its support from outside of the US is pretty crazy. COD, and Battlefield are big inthe US no doubt but on a worldwide basis they are a blip on the Radar for Sony as a whole.
Quadraphonic
Member
I think the adults here are forgetting they have jobs now and aren't kids anymore.
When a new console comes out the games are usually full RRP and remain high for quite a while. It's only later in the gen where everything comes out lower than rrp and gets knocked down even further with a few months.
So if on launch week every game is £50, £35 isn't bad at all. Can't remember what used game prices were back when 360 launched but I'm sure they weren't £15 cheaper.
That said Microsoft having control could be deadly if they don't lower the prices in a realistic way. I remember Perfect dark being 1.99 pre-owned at retail and £20 for a DD on Xbox marketplace.
So if on launch week every game is £50, £35 isn't bad at all. Can't remember what used game prices were back when 360 launched but I'm sure they weren't £15 cheaper.
That said Microsoft having control could be deadly if they don't lower the prices in a realistic way. I remember Perfect dark being 1.99 pre-owned at retail and £20 for a DD on Xbox marketplace.
Beer Monkey
Member
Again, we all know that a digital-only, no-resell future is coming, and we have known this for a long time. It's just coming a generation earlier than we expected, at least for Xbox. Anger at Microsoft over this is kind of silly. Choosing to not buy their system if this model doesn't appeal to you, however, is not silly.
Axis
Member
Do you honestly think the 2 million that would get traded in and sold would be bought new if a cheaper used option wasn't available? Why is it broken? Why should the publisher get to determine what I get to do with my game after I purchase it as far as re-selling it goes?
My thought too. To me the Xbone is an online only console in conception, but unfortunately for Microsoft it has to take into account current limiting factors such as the prevailing retail-disc environment. By making used games unattractive and online/the cloud more attractive, they can eventually lock out retail-disc and sell the majority of games through their own store. They probably consider this inevitable anyway, they just have the opportunity now of helping things along.
Games that are traded in to Gamestop, Amazon, Best Buy, etc. are mostly used to fund the purchasing of new games. Remove that and you're most likely going to sell less copies than before.
Jacksonlee
Member
and who decided the limitations of digtial ownership in contrast to physical?
MS is trying to rebrand their products as services (which i don't think is correct) and in doingso, generating more control for their products that are in the hands of the consumers.
Steam only works because its cheap. MS's online prices, while not competing with other online stores, will never be that low..
by implementing this used-game-online-only-gaming-is-a-service mentality, they're breaking my ownership, and what comes with it.
To a Japanese company Japan will likely always be a relevant market. They likely wont move as many units as they have in the past but people will still buy the PS4 as long as pricing is not insane, and Sony are not going to inact policies that would hinder that further. They could obviously, but I would believe its very unlikely.
Also if rumors of FF exclusivity, continued tales of support, Yakuza, etc are still produced for the PS4 it will sell in japan.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Trying so hard leans to strain injuries man.
Best part of all this crap where you don't really buy a game anymore, but a license to use it...
You will still be asked to pay 60 bucks for new games.
Hope I'm proven wrong and now that publishers+retailers get money from resales means games will be cheaper just like PC releases being 10 bucks less than console ones.
You will still be asked to pay 60 bucks for new games.
Hope I'm proven wrong and now that publishers+retailers get money from resales means games will be cheaper just like PC releases being 10 bucks less than console ones.
The publisher should not have a right to tell you what to do with it. You would not be profiting off of it. If you want to be able to sell it to a friend for $40, you should be able to. You would still be taking a loss or at the very least break even. My argument is that the reseller in this case is buying it and reselling it over and over again at a profit margin of 2.5 times than that of selling a new copy. While no money from that profit goes back to the publisher/developer or system seller.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
Pubs get nothing except more day 1 sales for their Yearly Sequel
If EA was offering to buy back titles for $30 alongside GS offering 20, you don't think everyone'd send them in to EA? Now EA has 100% of the money of the used market!
Oh but that requires effort, a new strategy, a new online business and perhaps a risky storefront business! Let's just shut down Madden servers after 2 years to force an upgrade instead.
people also believe what marketers and PR types say.
My guess is there is something to scan on the disk that has a unique code. The system finds which account the game is attached to. Then you will put some sort of pin or password in at the register to verify you are the account holder. Then the game is removed from your account and that unique code can be registered to a new machine.
and this is the type of deal I fear we may no longer see. Old over produced games for a pittance. Cheap deals on amazon and eBay. Garage sales...
mightynine
Member
And once again, that's their problem - either cut production costs or increase what you charge for the video game.
You need better friends.
It will help EA, Activision and MS.
Even if people buy less games COD, Fifa ect. will still be bought. The big publishers would get bigger/higher marketshare.
MS gets a cut on everything, so they profit as well.
Jezbollah
Member
If we see a difference between how used games are handled with the PS4 and XBone, I can see a standard business practice in place in high street shops. The most space is set aside for products that you earn the biggest margin from - In UK stores you dont see much space dedicated to PC gaming since Steam became popular - I see that happening for the next Xbox. It's perfect business sense.
The Wii U and (if they choose to use the current used game policy) the PS4 will be virtually all you see in a games store - and that could be huge come Christmas.
The Wii U and (if they choose to use the current used game policy) the PS4 will be virtually all you see in a games store - and that could be huge come Christmas.
they most likely read the disc, it sends the id up to xbox servers which know the game is registered to you and allows gamestop to deactivate it
I definitely want to be able to have my games on my multiple systems (obviously one at launch but later one upstairs) and not need the disc to play
For this to happen there has to be some form of online checking or i would just rent every single game, install it and never buy one
Im still waiting to see how sony will accommodate this as i want the flexibility to be able to trade in afterwards.
Buying off PSN digitally is not an option im willing to do (0 trade in)
For this to happen there has to be some form of online checking or i would just rent every single game, install it and never buy one
Im still waiting to see how sony will accommodate this as i want the flexibility to be able to trade in afterwards.
Buying off PSN digitally is not an option im willing to do (0 trade in)
A few of us tried to explain it earlier in this thread. How lending/used games/selling games helps kids get into the hobby. Then when they get a job can buy games and support the industry. If you take this away there will be no future to gaming since it will be to expensive for anyone with out a job to get into. Hell parents are buying tablets as gaming machines for the kids for 1 dollar games.
From my understanding talking to higher placed people in the industry, for big publishers, it's a net negative once the dust has settled, because in the end they end up selling less than they would have if no used games were available. It's definitely a lost sale when it occurs while the title is selling actively in the marketplace, because a customer was willing to spend money on it, did so, and the publisher did not get a penny out of it. It's quite simple for them, really, and believe me, big publishers like Activision, Ubisoft and EA would much rather (and typically do) mark down their titles and sell them new than losing sales to used games. Once the game's total dev costs have been recouped (it doesn't happen often but hey) every new sale is profit, every used sale is a loss of potential profit, which is much easier (and realistic) to calculate than it is from piracy.
I will agree with you that a robust used market does mean an overall boost to the console sales itself as it creates a more accessible platform. That is highly plausible.
My only question then would be why would they want to bring all game ownership permissions into the cloud? What do they have to gain from that, besides analytics?
Beer Monkey
Member
PSP Go.
This. I always hear that gamers are too entitled, but we don't even compare to these fucking game comapnies. They feel entitled to our money simply by default.
BlastProcessing
Member
You right, I am angry about this because I forgot that I am not a child anymore. Thank you so much for that.
maquiladora
Member
I'm guessing you'll have to deactivate the game on your account before you bring it to Gamestop to sell to prevent that type of thing.
hooijdonk17
Member
What the fuck, really?
What we know is a digital future is coming, we don't know how they will be handled. Current US 1st sale laws dictating the buying and selling of used products were written in the 70s (they mention phonorecords as a product). This is an issue that will be legislated or the higher courts will make a clear ruling.
My bet is on digital resale as the EU has already OK'd this and Steam is in Legislation in Germany over used digital games. The US supreme court just upheld consumerists right to resell foreign goods, my money says they'll be all for digital resell.
1st sale doctrin - http://goo.gl/8lGb5
EU resell desicion - http://goo.gl/Qu2fg
Supreme court 1st sale - http://goo.gl/rVg7e
Valve sued by Germans - http://goo.gl/IPYtC
Gamestop would need to have a way of deactivating, or at least verifying that the game was deactivated. Otherwise, you could buy a game from GameStop that the previous owner conveniently forgot to deactivate.
Axis
Member
whatevermort
Member
Everybody saying NO RENTING - how do you know that MS can't get a deal in place with Netflix where they have special moveable licenses?
Mine too. Even in a corrupt democracy like USA, telling hundreds of millions of people they cannot resell digital goods would mean defeat at the polls and orgs like the MPAA have only so many cushy retirement jobs available.
How is this model different from Steam or any other digital sale? You can't trade back in your Steam games or lend them to a friend, can you? The only difference I see is that the physical disc is the means of transferring the digital data, and it's something you can actually trade back. Aside from that, it's just like making a transaction in a digital marketplace, is it not?
This comes from someone who rents tons of games via Gamefly. I'm not happy about this personally, but I understand it from a business and developer/publisher viewpoint.
It's simply the Steam model but with perks (trading the disc back in).
This comes from someone who rents tons of games via Gamefly. I'm not happy about this personally, but I understand it from a business and developer/publisher viewpoint.
It's simply the Steam model but with perks (trading the disc back in).
I think the idea is that MS probably looks at renting about as favorably as used games.
King Mystery
Member
Is this one of those things where the "harder you squeeze sand, the more grains escape" analogy applies?
Last Hearth
Member
Yeah, but in your scenario the $192 is spend by 5 people, each of whom on average spend about $35 on the game.
So what happens is now a new game comes out and NONE OF THEM pay $60, because it's only worth $35 to them. So they wait until the game drops to $35 to buy it. So now the revenue to the publisher is EXACTLY THE SAME as it was before they banned resells.
for the 1001 time: steam has competition, is not a platform holder, and they may have to, in fact, allow reselling in the future.
Beer Monkey
Member
Given that it sounds like the discs are uniquely coded (DIVX discs were too) instead of using user-input serial codes, it's conceivable that they could sell rental outlets special rental discs that work differently. Discs that install to the HDD but that you have to leave in the drive, or that you have to insert once a day, for example.
And of course they could sell these rental discs at a higher price.
Diablohead
Member
It would be interesting if renting was all on Microsoft's end, as in pay for a 3 day digital download license at some stupid cost, split with MS and the developers/publishers.
Who knows what will happen.
Who knows what will happen.
equippedwithtowel
Member
There are several advantages steam holds that MS will never implement.
Their not nearly analogous situations.
SneakySneaks
Member
Steam is free outside a computer.
Steam has other retailers that sell keys, hell Amazon is having a great sale now.
Steam isn't an entity for a publicly traded company.
Steam allows for mods.
Steam embraces user generated content
To name a few. I trust Steam with prices. MS hasn't lowered the price for Office in years, I doubt they'll lower game prices digitally either.
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