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The Obama Delusion

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CoolTrick

Banned
From Realclearpolitics.

February 20, 2008
The Obama Delusion
By Robert Samuelson

WASHINGTON -- It's hard not to be dazzled by Barack Obama. At the 2004 Democratic convention, he visited with Newsweek reporters and editors, including me. I came away deeply impressed by his intelligence, his forceful language and his apparent willingness to take positions that seemed to rise above narrow partisanship. Obama has become the Democratic presidential front-runner, precisely because countless millions have formed a similar opinion. It is, I now think, mistaken.

As a journalist, I harbor serious doubt about each of the likely nominees. But with Sens. Hillary Clinton and John McCain, I feel that I'm dealing with known quantities. They've been in the public arena for years; their views, values and temperaments have received enormous scrutiny. By contrast, newcomer Obama is largely a stage presence defined mostly by his powerful rhetoric. The trouble, at least for me, is the huge and deceptive gap between his captivating oratory and his actual views.

The subtext of Obama's campaign is that his own life narrative -- to become the first African-American president, a huge milestone in the nation's journey from slavery -- can serve as a metaphor for other political stalemates. Great impasses can be broken with sufficient good will, intelligence and energy. "It's not about rich versus poor; young versus old; and it is not about black versus white," he says. Along with millions of others, I find this a powerful appeal.

But on inspection, the metaphor is a mirage. Repudiating racism is not a magic cure-all for the nation's ills. It requires independent ideas, and Obama has few. If you examine his agenda, it is completely ordinary, highly partisan, not candid and mostly unresponsive to many pressing national problems.

By Obama's own moral standards, Obama fails. Americans "are tired of hearing promises made and 10-point plans proposed in the heat of a campaign only to have nothing change," he recently said. Shortly thereafter, he outlined an economic plan of at least 12 points that, among other things, would:

-- Provide a $1,000 tax cut for most two-earner families ($500 for singles).

-- Create a $4,000 refundable tuition tax credit for every year of college.

-- Expand the child care tax credit for people earning less than $50,000 and "double spending on quality after-school programs."

-- Enact an "energy plan" that would invest $150 billion in 10 years to create a "green energy sector."

Whatever one thinks of these ideas, they're standard goodie-bag politics: something for everyone. They're so similar to many Clinton proposals that her campaign put out a news release accusing him of plagiarizing. With existing budget deficits and the costs of Obama's "universal health plan," the odds of enacting his full package are slim.

A favorite Obama line is that he will tell "the American people not just what they want to hear, but what we need to know." Well, he hasn't so far.

Consider the retiring baby boomers. A truth-telling Obama might say: "Spending for retirees -- mainly Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- is already nearly half the federal budget. Unless we curb these rising costs, we will crush our children with higher taxes. Reflecting longer life expectancies, we should gradually raise the eligibility ages for these programs and trim benefits for wealthier retirees. Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame for inaction. Waiting longer will only worsen the problem."

Instead, Obama pledges not to raise the retirement age and to "protect Social Security benefits for current and future beneficiaries." This isn't "change"; it's sanctification of the status quo. He would also exempt all retirees making less than $50,000 annually from income tax. By his math, that would provide average tax relief of $1,400 to 7 million retirees -- shifting more of the tax burden onto younger workers. Obama's main proposal for Social Security is to raise the payroll tax beyond the present $102,000 ceiling.

Political candidates routinely indulge in exaggeration, pandering, inconsistency and self-serving obscurity. Clinton and McCain do. The reason for holding Obama to a higher standard is that it's his standard and also his campaign's central theme. He has run on the vague promise of "change," but on issue after issue -- immigration, the economy, global warming -- he has offered boilerplate policies that evade the underlying causes of the stalemates. These issues remain contentious because they involve real conflicts or differences of opinion.

The contrast between his broad rhetoric and his narrow agenda is stark, and yet the press corps -- preoccupied with the political "horse race" -- has treated his invocation of "change" as a serious idea rather than a shallow campaign slogan. He seems to have hypnotized much of the media and the public with his eloquence and the symbolism of his life story. The result is a mass delusion that Obama is forthrightly engaging the nation's major problems when, so far, he isn't.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
We've already had this same kind of thread twice before. It isn't going to turn out any better the 3rd time
 
Well, he is writing checks that the country can't cash. And that is ridiculous.

The sad thing is that they all do it. Look at McCain . . . he wants to keep the tax cuts permanent and keep us in Iraq for a 100 years. Dude, we are bleeding money. Just stop.

I hope all of them are just bullshiting and will be more fiscally responsible.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
CoolTrick said:
In 2 days?

Different source but the same kind of article has be posted before. Every media organization out has turned out at least one "Obama fans are delusional"/"Obama's isn't about change" type of article. Every single one of these articles don't need their own thread
 

Sharp

Member
No, this one's different. This isn't "Obama supporters are creepy." This is "I dislike Obama, and by extension his policies. Why don't you?" It's not "Obama has no substance," it's, "Obama is not really change and has a narrow agenda, etc."

But really this is just CoolTrick being CoolTrick.
 
speculawyer said:
Well, he is writing checks that the country can't cash. And that is ridiculous.

The sad thing is that they all do it. Look at McCain . . . he wants to keep the tax cuts permanent and keep us in Iraq for a 100 years. Dude, we are bleeding money. Just stop.

I hope all of them are just bullshiting and will be more fiscally responsible.
I think if he comes in power, he'll be fiscally responsible. It's just that people don't like to hear about money problems, higher taxes or whatever. The "lower taxes" mantra has worked so many times to win a presidency, I doubt Obama wants to take the risk of saying the exact opposite.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Souldriver said:
I think if he comes in power, he'll be fiscally responsible. It's just that people don't like to hear about money problems, higher taxes or whatever. The "lower taxes" mantra has worked so many times to win a presidency, I doubt Obama wants to take the risk of saying the exact opposite.

A socialist dem with a dem controlled senate and house you think he will be responsible with spending? Come on he is going to spend, spend and spend some more. Him and the dem party will try and buy the next election years a head of time spending trillions on social programs.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
quest said:
A socialist dem with a dem controlled senata and house you think he will be responsible with spending? Come on he is going to spend, spend and spend some more. Him and the dem party will try and buy the next election years a head of time spending trillions on social programs.

He's not a socialist
 

Socreges

Banned
I'll be the first to admit that I might be a little naive when it comes to Obama, that I am taken with his "captivating oratory" and "broad rhetoric", and that I trust him completely for no other reason than he seems honest and like a bringer of change. But maybe that's not the case. Maybe this article rings true.

I'd really appreciate it if people actually responded critically to the article's arguments, when they can.
 
Political candidates routinely indulge in exaggeration, pandering, inconsistency and self-serving obscurity. Clinton and McCain do. The reason for holding Obama to a higher standard is that it's his standard and also his campaign's central theme. He has run on the vague promise of "change," but on issue after issue -- immigration, the economy, global warming -- he has offered boilerplate policies that evade the underlying causes of the stalemates. These issues remain contentious because they involve real conflicts or differences of opinion

This is the point I make weeks ago. While his positions are very similar to Hillary, ie the establishment candidate, she's not the one running on the altar of change. These similarities cause me to not take his calls for "change" to heart; what's he "changing"? Granted, his take on lobbying is refreshing, but what else?
 

lopaz

Banned
typhonsentra said:
The biggest complaint against Obama always seems to be "We can't find ammunition to use against him!"

That's not what the article said at all, stop straw-manning. It's got a point, Obama is not going to advocate lower spending on old people because old people vote in numbers. It's not what needs to be said, but what the electorate wants to hear
 

Zeed

Banned
CoolTrick said:
By Obama's own moral standards, Obama fails.

...Because he is Muslim!
Nothing to see here folks, just another typical CoolTrick "post anything negative about Obama the Muslim no matter how inaccurate it might be" post.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
PhoenixDark said:
This is the point I make weeks ago. While his positions are very similar to Hillary, ie the establishment candidate, she's not the one running on the altar of change. These similarities cause me to not take his calls for "change" to heart; what's he "changing"? Granted, his take on lobbying is refreshing, but what else?

Every election, no matter how many candidates, devolves into Change vs experience or insider vs outsider. Hillary is the experienced insider while Obama is the change outsider. While you can scrutinize Obama's change policy, couldnt' you also question Clinton's experience? Neither candidates is really 100% the change or experience candidate they make themselves out to appear
 
The "Change" is that those policies haven't been enacted? His argument isn't that his policies are drastically different (Although there are differences), it's that the way he'll go about enacting these policies will be more effective. And I think he's right. Remember Triumph's argument about "Landslide Victories"?
 

Socreges

Banned
Amir0x said:
Excellent article, I'm not voting for Obama anymore.

Insofar as fact checking this article goes, unfortunately for it the Obama campaign had revealed his economic plan before Hillary. Not that it matters. I'm still not voting for Obama.
So the article is wrong on that point. But there are several others; what of them?

e.g.
With existing budget deficits and the costs of Obama's "universal health plan," the odds of enacting his full package are slim.
I would like to see this debated. Are the odds so slim? Is the author ignoring the way in which Obama would make it effective?
 
quest said:
A socialist dem with a dem controlled senate and house you think he will be responsible with spending? Come on he is going to spend, spend and spend some more. Him and the dem party will try and buy the next election years a head of time spending trillions on social programs.
Maybe he can put some money into social and economic initiatives that've turned out to be very profitable and beneficial for a country, proven by a lot of countries in the world, instead of acting like you're fiscally responsible but piss away billions on a war.


Seriously, it boggles my mind that people think democratic presidents are not fiscally responsible, while just as much (if not more) fiscal disasters have happened under republicans. Just look at Reagans terms. He's the epitome of "free market, little spending", and still the national debt went through the roof while he was in power. Or to say it without the political party distinction: mostly the presidents who claim to be fiscal conservative or responsible do a worse job than the others.


(little graph I is the first search result under "national debt")
National-Debt-GDP.gif
 
CoolTrick said:
Yes, correct, in before Obamites swarm the thread with flames instead of validly discussing the article.

Yes, because the article accuses the people that support Obama as delusional for feeling inspired by his speeches. Great, thanks.
 
quest said:
A socialist dem with a dem controlled senate and house you think he will be responsible with spending? Come on he is going to spend, spend and spend some more. Him and the dem party will try and buy the next election years a head of time spending trillions on social programs.

History has proven otherwise.

BudgetDeficitChart.gif
 

Tamanon

Banned
Yeah I mean doesn't he have that whole spiel about the problem not being a lack of good ideas, but that Washington is where ideas go to die?
 

thekad

Banned
I don't get why CoolTrick and co. keep bringing up the same points after they have been refuted time and time again.

"Obama is all talk!"

Yeah guy, just because the source has changed, doesn't mean the message has.
 

ZeroTolerance

Junior Member
PhoenixDark said:
While I agree with the article for the most part...hasn't this been posted more than a couple times?

is fucking CoolTrick.. Who gives a fuck ?

EDIT: Notice how he has not said anything about the debate thread and out of nowhere she searches some shit and post it up ? hmm
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Ripclawe said:
There is more than enough political ammo to use on Obama based on his political career in Illinois and what he voted for so far in the Senate.

Though this is not the first article to point out the broad rhetoric could come back at him.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,536232,00.html

That's why we have only ever had 2 senators as President. Their careers as senators forces them to vote on bills that always pisses off somebody and come election time it comes back to bite them in the ass.
 

Zeed

Banned
thekad said:
I don't get why CoolTrick and co. keep bringing up the same points after they have been refuted time and time again.
Cause Obama is a Muslim plant that needs to be stopped, obviously.

grandjedi6 said:
That's why we have only ever had 2 senators as President. Their careers as senators forces them to vote on bills that always pisses off somebody and come election time it comes back to bite them in the ass.
Well no matter what happens from here on out, it's definitely going to be 3.
 

lopaz

Banned
ConfusingJazz said:
Yes, because the article accuses the people that support Obama as delusional for feeling inspired by his speeches. Great, thanks.

No it didn't. People, stop painting this article with what you THINK every anti-obama article is saying and read it. It doesn't say they are delusional for feeling inspired, it says they are delusional for ignoring the inconsistency between his rhetoric and his positions
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Zeed said:
Cause Obama is a Muslim plant that needs to be stopped, obviously.


Well no matter what happens from here on out, it's definitely going to be 3.

Nader will win obviously

lopaz said:
No it didn't. People, stop painting this article with what you THINK every anti-obama article is saying and read it. It doesn't say they are delusional for feeling inspired, it says they are delusional for ignoring the inconsistency between his rhetoric and his positions

What says all Obama fans ignore the inconsistencies. I think many who are knowledge of such inconsistencies either don't care or understand that he is, gasp, a politician
 
I love it how people continuously post graphs that frame Clinton's budgets in terms or "% of GDP" or "Surpluses". Its completely disingenuous.

Was he better than Reagan and both Bushes? Yes, absolutely. But, the national debt under his administration still increased by ~$1.7 trillion.
 

lopaz

Banned
grandjedi6 said:
Nader will win obviously



What says all Obama fans ignore the inconsistencies. I think many who are knowledge of such inconsistencies either don't care or understand that he is, gasp, a politician

Fair point. The article I suppose doesn't actually say that about all Obama supporters, it's mainly just talking about specific policies. I myself am a partaker in Obamarama, but I think the article isn't actually spewing the usual "Obama is all talk" line, it was actually examining his policy.
 

CoolTrick

Banned
EDIT: Notice how he has not said anything about the debate thread and out of nowhere she searches some shit and post it up ? hmm

Because people made it clear that, ya know, the debate thread was not the place to discuss anything than strictly the debate. So, of course, I made a new thread.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
siamesedreamer said:
I love it how people continuously post graphs that frame Clinton's budgets in terms or "% of GDP" or "Surpluses". Its completely disingenuous.

Was he better than Reagan and both Bushes? Yes, absolutely. But, the national debt under his administration still increased by ~$1.7 trillion.

But to decrease national debt would require come kind of ficial policy that is conservative with money somehow. And I'm don't know where you could find that

lopaz said:
Fair point. The article I suppose doesn't actually say that about all Obama supporters, it's mainly just talking about specific policies. I myself am a partaker in Obamarama, but I think the article isn't actually spewing the usual "Obama is all talk" line, it was actually examining his policy.

To be honest, this article would have been recieved much better had anyone other than Cooltrick posted it. But Cooltrick posting anti-Obama articles is kinda like Rush whinning about McCain, it's getting kinda old now
 

Socreges

Banned
icarus-daedelus said:
Um:

Also this:
Um, I never said nothing had been posted. But the article claims a great deal more. I'm just expressing my curiousity here. I'm up in Canada, championing Obama. But I have to admit I am sometimes at a loss as to why.

Ripclawe said:
There is more than enough political ammo to use on Obama based on his political career in Illinois and what he voted for so far in the Senate.

Though this is not the first article to point out the broad rhetoric could come back at him.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,536232,00.html
These are the tangible criticisms from that article:

1) He wants to change the rules of engagement in politics, but he neglects to explain how and in what direction.

2) He wants to drive out lobbyists, but if he does, who will champion the interests of union members, war veterans and chemical corporations?

3) He wants to negotiate with the world's dictators, but to what end, exactly?

4) A quick withdrawal from Iraq? Sounds great. But the mistake of having started this war in the first place cannot be corrected by ending it in a mad rush to get out of Iraq. A rapid withdrawal of the US military would most likely be followed by a bloody civil war. Al-Qaida would manage to sink its teeth into Iraq once and for all. Iran would rejoice. And Osama bin Laden and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would be the real winners of the 2008 American presidential election.

5) He talks about military operations in the nuclear power Pakistan, operations that he, as commander-in-chief, would order even without the approval of the United Nations. ...
But in reality a military campaign in Pakistan would be lunacy, even if many in the American media have chosen to studiously ignore Obama's comments.


Given my ignorance, I'm in no position to reply. Though... 4) is obviously debatable and a matter of perspective (i.e., there already is a civil war. Why continue to occupy in an arguably impossible situation?). 5) I have somehow never heard about and 2) seems to me a strong criticism, though maybe it's leaving something out.
 

thekad

Banned
To Socreges:

As a journalist, I harbor serious doubt about each of the likely nominees. But with Sens. Hillary Clinton and John McCain, I feel that I'm dealing with known quantities. They've been in the public arena for years; their views, values and temperaments have received enormous scrutiny.

The whole experience defense is useless. Experience has gotten us nothing over the past 7 years. Yes, they are known quantities. They are known not to work.

By contrast, newcomer Obama is largely a stage presence defined mostly by his powerful rhetoric.

That is simply the writer's opinion not backed by anything other than Clinton rhetoric. Any idiot could simply go to Obama's website and learn his positions on every issue. I don't see why Obama shouldn't be blamed for this writer's or anyone else's ignorance.

But on inspection, the metaphor is a mirage. Repudiating racism is not a magic cure-all for the nation's ills.

Terrific strawmen, but Obama has never stated that the "repudiating of racism" that appears to be going on in this primary is a magic cure-all for the nation's ills. It is merely a symbol, a sign that shows that despite overwhelming odds and a "chorus of cynics" claiming that racism will forever pervade America, change can happen.

It requires independent ideas, and Obama has few. If you examine his agenda, it is completely ordinary, highly partisan, not candid and mostly unresponsive to many pressing national problems.

barackobama.com

By Obama's own moral standards, Obama fails. Americans "are tired of hearing promises made and 10-point plans proposed in the heat of a campaign only to have nothing change," he recently said. Shortly thereafter, he outlined an economic plan of at least 12 points that, among other things, would...

I don't that means what he thinks it means. He completely ignored the "only to have nothing to change part." Obama doesn't oppose 10-point plans. He opposes fake 10-point plans made to pander.

Whatever one thinks of these ideas, they're standard goodie-bag politics: something for everyone. They're so similar to many Clinton proposals that her campaign put out a news release accusing him of plagiarizing.

Already discussed.

He has run on the vague promise of "change," but on issue after issue -- immigration, the economy, global warming -- he has offered boilerplate policies that evade the underlying causes of the stalemates. These issues remain contentious because they involve real conflicts or differences of opinion.

There is a stalemate because there are lobbyists and bitter partisans running our government. Obama offers solutions for those two problems. The other two do not.

Also, we've had a fucking dumbass as our President.

But we have already been through this in every other political thread on GAF, so...
 
siamesedreamer said:
I love it how people continuously post graphs that frame Clinton's budgets in terms or "% of GDP" or "Surpluses". Its completely disingenuous.

Was he better than Reagan and both Bushes? Yes, absolutely. But, the national debt under his administration still increased by ~$1.7 trillion.
I'm just confused how people like JayDubya (and you?) believe the free market and dismanteling the government will magically make everything better. Everytime a president with these values comes in power, the country goes a bit deeper down the shitter. In that light, the presidents some conservative forumers would call "socialists" did a far better job at controlling the budget and improving the life of americans, while these forumers always claim the exact opposite. What are they smoking?!








(Sorry for going off-topic btw)
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Socreges said:
Um, I never said nothing had been posted. But the article claims a great deal more. I'm just expressing my curiousity here. I'm up in Canada, championing Obama. But I have to admit I am sometimes at a loss as to why.


These are the tangible criticisms from that article:

1) He wants to change the rules of engagement in politics, but he neglects to explain how and in what direction.

2) He wants to drive out lobbyists, but if he does, who will champion the interests of union members, war veterans and chemical corporations?

3) He wants to negotiate with the world's dictators, but to what end, exactly?

4) A quick withdrawal from Iraq? Sounds great. But the mistake of having started this war in the first place cannot be corrected by ending it in a mad rush to get out of Iraq. A rapid withdrawal of the US military would most likely be followed by a bloody civil war. Al-Qaida would manage to sink its teeth into Iraq once and for all. Iran would rejoice. And Osama bin Laden and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would be the real winners of the 2008 American presidential election.

5) He talks about military operations in the nuclear power Pakistan, operations that he, as commander-in-chief, would order even without the approval of the United Nations. ...
But in reality a military campaign in Pakistan would be lunacy, even if many in the American media have chosen to studiously ignore Obama's comments.


Given my ignorance, I'm in no position to reply. Though... 4) is obviously debatable and a matter of perspective (i.e., there already is a civil war. Why continue to occupy in an arguably impossible situation?). 5) I have somehow never heard about and 2) seems to me a strong criticism, though maybe it's leaving something out.

1.) He's the change candidate, they never detail their programs. i.e. FDR's New Deal
2.) Actual people
3.) Negotiate with everyone at first, don't just ignore them and think everything will be alright
4.) Alot of Americans want a withdrawl from Iraq, including the entire Democratic Party. You expect him to bulk the trend when he was the one argueing to never go?
5.) That's the man's opinion.

icarus-daedelus said:
How about inconsistencies within the article?

Obama has never said that he has brand new ideas that will bring people together. Rather, he has said that he will attempt people together in an effort to make sure that good, pre-existing ideas don't die. He has suggested a public meeting on the matter of healthcare reform. Will it work? Who knows - I remember Bill Clinton did something similar early in his term (not on healthcare, I forget which issue) with some success.

Point is, Obama has never claimed to be a messiah (lol) full of brand new magical ideas but rather someone willing to listen to both sides and possibly end some of the silly partisanship that has ruined D.C. since the sixties. Attack that stance if you will, but don't attack something that he hasn't said.

I do like the article's points about social security, though. The fact that it hasn't been touched since it's inception is a definite problem that can't be ignored.
Yeah, it's not a well written or researched article
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
to be honest...the guy probably isn't going to do anything.:lol people can't say **** if you dont do anything. Then again...most presidents don't do much, but they all make a pretty speech
 
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