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Final thoughts on Persona 3 + Fes

Shouta

Member
Thanks to Bebpo, I had the chance to play Persona 3 for the last two weeks. I just finished the game last night with 69 hours on the clock.

I must say, I’m pretty impressed with the game overall. It does have issues though and that comes from not developing the two parts of the game far enough or an issue of things that could’ve changed or tweaked to be more enjoyable.

For the uninitiated, Persona 3 is a one part dungeon crawler and one part school life simulation. During the day and a portion of the night, you live the life of the main character as he goes to school and makes friends since he is a new transfer student to the school. When the clocks hits midnight, the world enters “Darkness” or literally translated from the Japanese script, Shadow time. All normal humans are frozen in what looks like standing black coffins and only people with a special gift or ability can move freely within during this period. What appears during Darkness is Tartaros, a massive 250+ floor tower that acts as one-half of the gameplay in Persona 3.

Tartaros is where most of the game’s battling takes place. The tower is randomized every time you a new floor with the exception of boss floors. Boss floors, which occur about every 10 or so levels, also have Teleport Pads that allow you to teleport to the entrance and that level at will. Floors have loot based on where you should be in the game and have enemies appropriate to it. You can’t climb the tower to the top level in at the start though as the tower itself is locked until certain portions of the story occur.

The tower is fun to climb the first time but it does lack punch for repeated climbs. It really needs more incentives for you to climb it again. There isn’t any rare loot in the game or anything and while the randomized dungeons are nice, it gets grating when there’s no reward to be found for exploring every floor again. Other than that, enemies are challenging enough on each floor and the boss battles are excellent for the most part.

The battle system is basically the same one as Persona 2 but with the addition of the “One More” element of the Press Turn battle system. If you hit an enemy’s weakness or land a critical attack while the monster is up, you’re awarded another chance to attack. You do not get “One more” when hitting a weakness or landing a critical when the enemy is in the down status. If you manage to force all your enemies into a down status, you’re given a free attack that all members in your party are allowed to participate (if they aren’t incapacitated or hit with a status effect) which is basically the damage of all your member’s attacks in one unblockable chunk. It’s a good system and actually a bit better than the full Press Turn System IMO.

Your teammates are AI only and are generally quite smart. They can also be manipulated by telling them general orders to follow like “Down Enemies” or “Support and Heal”. They do a great job even with the commands which is a relief since a lot of games with AI controlled components are usually lacking. It is a turn-based game system however which would explain why the AI teammates fair much better.

Personas are of course the main stay of this series. They function just like they have in previous Persona games or like Demons in Nocturne for folks that haven’t played Persona before. I think the major difference with the Personas in this game is that I find them to be in balance this time around. In previous Persona games, Magic was much more powerful than physical attacks overall. Physical attacks ruled the roost in Nocturne and to a lesser extent, DDS. It’s really nice to have them be balanced and most of the Personas being useful in one way or the other. My only major complaint is that most of the status effects are weak in this game. They don’t usually have much effect on the battle and are kind of an afterthought beyond the –kaja and –nda lines.

The other half of the gameplay is the school life simulation. You basically play every day in the game barring special events that eat up time. You can do various things like raise your stats (Academics, Charm, and Courage) or spend time with the people in the city to form relationships that make up the community system. School days occur in 4 periods where you can raise either stats or communities. The first two are reserved for school and the last two are free for communities or stats. So you don’t actually play a day in real time. The concept is pretty cool but it’s a little shallow since there isn’t any sort of interactivity in the events you do beyond picking and choosing answers. It’s not to say that it’s bad but a little more interaction beyond picking answers would be nice. However, I can understand why it isn’t much beyond this though since it would be too much for the player to handle except the most hardcore with the Tartaros content to deal with as well.

Tartaros and the school life mix pretty well though and you’re always constantly busy with something in the game. It flies by pretty quickly. It actually seems a little short at times despite being a 70 hour because of the stuff you may want to do. As an experience, it’s really good. I’d probably rank it on the same level as Valkyrie Profile Silmeria or a little lower.

The story is solid but not fantastic. It’s not as good as Persona 2: Sin or Punishment in premise but it’s told a bit better and clearer. I wish the story in Persona 3 had more to it though because it could’ve been very interesting. Also, once a month story events can be a little slow going at times since there were times I wanted to see what happens next in the plot.

On the flipside, the story really works well for pushing the character development in the game. It’s actually the better of the two. Each of the characters has distinct personalities and has their own problems to deal with in the game and that is ongoing throughout the game. It’s a pretty natural progression and hardly feels forced which comes out very nice. There could be a bit more delving into some of the characters but I also didn’t get to see some of the content related to the main cast.

What really surprised me is that the sub-characters in the game get development too due to quite a bit of them being the key members in the community system (they affect your Persona). Each character has their own story that builds up as you go up in community rank with them and deepen your relationship with that character. The stories usually have something to do with the Arcana they they’re related to either by situation, characters, or meaning. It’s really nice since you get a deeper sense of the characters that inhabit the game’s world. Usually, NPCs are just there to push you along in the story but these NPCs actually have personalities and a history to them. It’s definitely a jump a head of most other games.

If I had to compare it to some of the other games I’ve played recently, I’d rank it higher than VPS in overall experience although VPS does do quite a number of things better than Persona 3.
 
My take on Persona 3 went from initial apprehension over the chibi-ish character designs to being one of my most anticipated titles ... really looking forward to the English version :)

Also, I'm glad to hear that magic and physical are pretty well balanced, although it's too bad that the role of status attacks has been minimized -- they were pretty useful in some of the other Megatens
 

Shouta

Member
Thankfully, the status effects are also pretty minimized against your team. The only that I had issues with was Fear and Poison. The other ones were incredibly minor unless an enemy specialized in it.

Of course, my experience with the game differs compared to others probably. I know Bebpo and several others that used Charm attacks to their advantage for one or two of the harder boss battles in the game while I ended up brute-forcing it.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Yeah, I agree with you on pretty much all the stuff. For as interesting as the school parts could've been, the stories were all pretty so-so, the interaction was limited, and doing the same stuff over and over for 70 hours was kinda tiring. But then again I feel the same way about Tokimeki and other games setup like this. At least P3 had the dungeon side which kept you wanting to play for the entire time and having fun.

But the entire game does kinda trot along like FUN 3 mins of dull FUN 3 mins of dull FUN, repeat for 70-80 hours.

Like you said, I'd overall put it above VP:S because it's completely solid from beginning to end in both plot and gameplay with no drops anywhere. But I agree I'd put VP:S above P3 in certain aspects. To me P3 is like a consistent great whereas VP:S is a game that throughout the game moves up and down between good and AWESOME. Personally I found XS3 to be a bit better than both on a consistent level, but then again I don't think XS Ep3 ever jumps to the AWESOME level that VP2 does, even if it's just for a few hours of VP2's game.

I would definitely be interested in a P3 sequel/spin-off building off the same gameplay structure, but the school stuff would have to be upgraded pretty heavily and the dungeons made more interesting.
 

Shouta

Member
Yeah, the game's consistent as an experience. It's largely thanks to the fact you can switch tracks when something gets tiring which you can't do in VPS. I would love to see another game based on this formula. The school life part would need to be expanded but not so it becomes needlessly complex. Perhaps minigames or something to assist in the interaction rather than simple dialogue choices would help without adding an extra layer for the player to handle.

As for the character stories, I actually liked them quite a bit. It's just that some need more time to develop (or more development period) while others are just right. Yukari is a great example of the latter while Sanada/Amada/Aragaki is an example of the former.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
P3 is a fantastic game that I need to finish. I'm at 70 hours (I have no idea how I'm at 70 hours and not near the end).
 

Bebpo

Banned
Shouta said:
Yeah, the game's consistent as an experience. It's largely thanks to the fact you can switch tracks when something gets tiring which you can't do in VPS. I would love to see another game based on this formula. The school life part would need to be expanded but not so it becomes needlessly complex. Perhaps minigames or something to assist in the interaction rather than simple dialogue choices would help without adding an extra layer for the player to handle.

As for the character stories, I actually liked them quite a bit. It's just that some need more time to develop (or more development period) while others are just right. Yukari is a great example of the latter while Sanada/Amada/Aragaki is an example of the former.

With stories I was talking about community ones :p I think the main story and its characters are excellent. I just found that the community stories never really went anywhere and the endings felt very anti-climatic.

TheTrin said:
P3 is a fantastic game that I need to finish. I'm at 70 hours (I have no idea how I'm at 70 hours and not near the end).

Yeah, I have no idea either. The game is pretty linear so I guess you're just fighting in Tartaros more than the rest of us :p
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Bebpo said:
Yeah, I have no idea either. The game is pretty linear so I guess you're just fighting in Tartaros more than the rest of us :p

Yea, that's probably it. I got pretty addicted to the dungeon crawling. I would love if SMT Imagine was a Persona style crawler with 4 player, instead of an MMO.
 

Shouta

Member
Bebpo said:
With stories I was talking about community ones :p I think the main story and its characters are excellent. I just found that the community stories never really went anywhere and the endings felt very anti-climatic.

Oh, the community ones. I thought they were nice for what they were. Mini-stories that are meant to represent the Arcana it supports. It could be more indepth but that would be a huge amount more story content to add. It's nice as a supplement to the main story and characters though. And I bet you're just pissed you only got a kiss! :lol
 

Bebpo

Banned
Shouta said:
Oh, the community ones. I thought they were nice for what they were. Mini-stories that are meant to represent the Arcana it supports. It could be more indepth but that would be a huge amount more story content to add. It's nice as a supplement to the main story and characters though. And I bet you're just pissed you only got a kiss! :lol

I didn't get a kiss. I didn't get jack shit from my girl. IT WAS A TRAP >_<
 
Sounds like...so far...what a RPG year eh?

Disgaea 2, Final Fantasy XII, DQ Yangus, Xenosaga 3, Valkyrie Profile Silmeria, Persona 3, Growlanser V...

And yet to appear this year: PS Universe, Tales of Destiny R, Summon Night 4, Wild Arms Vth...
 

Sagitario

Member
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
Sounds like...so far...what a RPG year eh?

Disgaea 2, Final Fantasy XII, DQ Yangus, Xenosaga 3, Valkyrie Profile Silmeria, Persona 3, Growlanser V...

And yet to appear this year: PS Universe, Tales of Destiny R, Summon Night 4, Wild Arms Vth...

*cough*Tales*cough*Abyss*cough* ... not everybody can import games from Japan ;) ...
 

Shouta

Member
Bebpo said:
I didn't get a kiss. I didn't get jack shit from my girl. IT WAS A TRAP >_<

Wow, that's a pwnage right there. I got at least hints of something bigger with the girl I finished. :lol
 

ethelred

Member
Awesome impressions, guys -- thanks so much for providing them. I can't wait for the game. :)

Kurosaki Ichigo said:
Sounds like...so far...what a RPG year eh?

Disgaea 2, Final Fantasy XII, DQ Yangus, Xenosaga 3, Valkyrie Profile Silmeria, Persona 3, Growlanser V...

And yet to appear this year: PS Universe, Tales of Destiny R, Summon Night 4, Wild Arms Vth...

Don't forget Blue Dragon and all the awesome handheld stuff (Mother 3, Monster Kingdom, Tingle, FF3, Jeanne d'Arc, DQM: Joker, Brave Story, Contact, Yggdrasil Labyrinth).
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
awesome impressions shouta thanks

I cant wait :D

rank the RPGs you have played this year :p

btw is the Persona Fusion system as complicated as in P2? sometimes I felt P2 makes things complicated just for the sake of it, like.... getting cards from the Priestess, Empress and Emperor arcana you need free cards but to get free cards you need to get a contract with a demon and to make a contract you need to be lucky with some of the conversations with them kinda of felt too complicated and troublesome for me to even bother with it.

also I didnt like how in P2 you couldnt go back to previous dungeons to do a sidequest that you couldnt do the first time that to me was retarded although I heard this is something similar to this with the lady in the velvet room but apparently the sidequests are limited by time.

also I wanted to say Aegis is cute and she rox and I have yet to play the game.
 

Danj

Member
Do you have to have played previous Persona games in order to get full enjoyment out of Persona 3? I've heard lots about how awesome the game is, and I'm interested in getting it when the English version comes out, but I've never played any of the other Persona games.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Himuro said:
what does Shouta mean, thanks to Bebpo? Did Bebpo sell his copy?

Bebpo sold his copy to Shouta to fund his drug habit.
 

Shouta

Member
Himuro said:
what does Shouta mean, thanks to Bebpo? Did Bebpo sell his copy?

Bebpo loaned me his copy.

Error: No, the Persona acquiring system isn't as complicated as P2. You get Personas via the Shuffle Bonus system that shows up after battles. Pick the card with the Persona on it and you get it. You can then fuse them as you see fit. You don't need to talk to any persona and earn cards in this game.

Of the RPGs (SRPGs included) I've played this year, limiting it to games I've played for the first time.

Tales of Legendia > Berwick Saga > Persona 3 > Suikoden V > Valkyrie Profile Silmeria > Growlanser V > Final Fantasy Tactics Advance > Final Fantasy XII

There might be a few more RPGs I've played for the first time this year but I can't remember them all. :lol

Danj: Nope, Persona 3 is unrelated to the other Persona games except in a few concepts and Igor. You can go into the game without any knowledge of the previous Persona games. That's a good thing since Persona 1, Persona 2: Sin, and Persona 2: Punishment were all related so having a fresh game for new fans will be a great introduction to the series.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
that's good to hear, seriously P2 sometimes gets so ridiculous and tedious when trying to get new Personas that imo it's stupid.

wow at your ranking. FFTA>FF12? yikes :lol thank god my expectations are way low there.

nice to see that P3 turned out to be great.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Error2k4 said:
that's good to hear, seriously P2 sometimes gets so ridiculous and tedious when trying to get new Personas that imo it's stupid.

wow at your ranking. FFTA>FF12? yikes :lol thank god my expectations are way low there.

nice to see that P3 turned out to be great.

Don't forget FFTA > FF12 is coming from a list that puts Legendia >>> everything :p

I think FF12 is going to be the most underrated FF in history. So many people trounce on it because it has some flaws. But the 90% of the game that is not flawed is amazing. Probably the best rpg this year still IMO.
 

Shouta

Member
Bebpo said:
Don't forget FFTA > FF12 is coming from a list that puts Legendia >>> everything :p

I think FF12 is going to be the most underrated FF in history. So many people trounce on it because it has some flaws. But the 90% of the game that is not flawed is amazing. Probably the best rpg this year still IMO.

Legendia rox, Bebpo sux!
 

Amir0x

Banned
Bebpo said:
Don't forget FFTA > FF12 is coming from a list that puts Legendia >>> everything :p

I think FF12 is going to be the most underrated FF in history. So many people trounce on it because it has some flaws. But the 90% of the game that is not flawed is amazing. Probably the best rpg this year still IMO.

There will always be me there to dispense the truth about FFXII, so the haters can hate :D

Anyone who thinks FFTA > anything (except, like, Onimusha Tactics) is a doody head
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
btw I wanted to ask, any optional bosses, dungeons or sidequests in P3?
 

Bebpo

Banned
Error2k4 said:
btw I wanted to ask, any optional bosses, dungeons or sidequests in P3?

There is an optional 10 floor (aka, 10-15 min) dungeon with 1 optional superboss.

Game is pretty light on the side-stuff and is fairly linear in everything besides sub-story progression.
 

Avalon

Member
Shouta, you never did mention why you thought P3 was more fun then Nocturne/DDS (I believe I asked you in the official thread).
 

Shouta

Member
Avalon said:
Shouta, you never did mention why you thought P3 was more fun then Nocturne/DDS (I believe I asked you in the official thread).

Like I mentioned in the thread, there's a number of reasons. The battle system and overall gameplay is one thing. The game is much more balanced between magic and physical attacks, the game offers more flexibility in how you approach boss battles due to the fact there isn't the very RPS-ish formula that Nocturne and DDS rely on.

Then there's the fact there's a lot more to do in Persona 3 with the school life simulation section and the atmosphere was much more engaging. You really get into what's going on in the game and the mood changes very prominent throughout the game. Something bad happens in the game and you can feel it in the atmosphere. Conversely, something good happens and it really feels nice when you're doing stuff. It really sucks you in. The story and characters really help this out too since they're much more fleshed out than anything in Nocturne or DDS.
 

Bebpo

Banned
But DDS/SMT had umm...dungeons...and towns...which gave the game all kinds of gorgeous architectual aesthetics that sucked you in and made you want to explore and dungeon crawl in the areas.

P3 feels like you're trapped in a little box for 70 hours. It's a fun box, but it feels very small and limited versus the epic feel of SMT3 and the awesome worldview of DDS.

This is honestly like comparing DQ Yangus to DQVIII. While Yangus might be great and lots of fun, if you want an awesome rpg adventure there is no comparison.
 

Shouta

Member
Bebpo said:
But DDS/SMT had umm...dungeons...and towns...which gave the game all kinds of gorgeous architectual aesthetics that sucked you in and made you want to explore and dungeon crawl in the areas.

P3 feels like you're trapped in a little box for 70 hours. It's a fun box, but it feels very small and limited versus the epic feel of SMT3 and the awesome worldview of DDS.

This is honestly like comparing DQ Yangus to DQVIII. While Yangus might be great and lots of fun, if you want an awesome rpg adventure there is no comparison.

Not to me, DDS and Nocturne was more town-dungeon-town-dungeon without any reason for me to explore and talk to citizens. Persona 3 is definitely a sandbox in it the locales but I always talked to NPCs to see what they said (if it was new) and looked around at various times to find new things and people to talk to. Much more atmosphere to me than the other two (although the world design was kind of neat)
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Bebpo said:
This is honestly like comparing DQ Yangus to DQVIII. While Yangus might be great and lots of fun, if you want an awesome rpg adventure there is no comparison.
so P3 is worse than DDS/Nocturne?
 
In terms of story content, how much do you expect will get cut out of the North American version? (Based on past cases of similar ports.)

Closest I ever got to Persona or MegaTen was the preview of the original Persona in an EGM back in the 90s when I thought it looked sort of cool when I was relatively very into Shadowrun.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
KyanMehwulfe said:
In terms of story content, how much do you expect will get cut out of the North American version? (Based on past cases of similar ports.)
nothing will get censored. vyers (he is an atlus administrator) from the atlus boards mentioned it.

everything will remain intact. yes even the shooting the head to summon persona thing.
 

Shouta

Member
I don't expect much to get cut out of the game. There's maybe one or two questionable things that may get censored but I'm not sure it's set in stone. The shooting themselves in the head part is actually not real, the guns aren't loaded in the game. =P
 

Doctor_No

Member
Error2k4 said:
btw I wanted to ask, any optional bosses, dungeons or sidequests in P3?

There are several secrets. . .

You can go to Manado if you go to 254F, you'll see a door at the back of the first floor. Here you can find Excaliber, Jesus Guard, Jesus Boots, and many of the most powerful items in the game. The enemies are also very strong here and they approach level 100. Here you will also encounter the strongest enemy of the game . . .

Elizabeth from the Velvet Room. She is almost impossible to beat and changes Persona (her pixy is impossible to beat from my experience), she's got an HP of 20,000 and can move twice in a turn.

There are other secrets, you can max each commu to get a special item and special persona for each, you can clear the game and continue with your previous personas in the book, if you get to lv99 your hp and mp will be 999, etc. There are also a bunch of hidden events
 

Shouta

Member
Error2k4 said:
ha! like Im reading that :p

It's stuff both Bebpo and I have already said and stuff you'll find out from playing the game. Don't read them anyway though since there is something in there that neither of us have mentioned =P.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Error2k4 said:
so P3 is worse than DDS/Nocturne?

Sure. But I think DDS and SMT3 are some of the finest rpgs I've played so just because P3 isn't quite as awesome doesn't mean it's not still awesome.

Devil Summoner is worse than all three though, but it's still cool.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
I agree, each title it's different in it's own way so I guess some people will prefer P3 over DDS/Nocturne or heck some might even like DS more than P3/DDS/Nocturne.
 

Shouta

Member
Error2k4 said:
so P3 is worse than DDS/Nocturne?

I personally think P3 is better than DDS or Nocturne myself but I don't consider either DDS or Nocturne to be godly experiences (pun intended) like a lot of folks do.

And I disagree Himuro, they're pretty comparable when it comes down to the gameplay. What's different is the asthetics and settings which people will have differing opinions on.
 

Doctor_No

Member
Error2k4 said:
I agree, each title it's different in it's own way so I guess some people will prefer P3 over DDS/Nocturne or heck some might even like DS more than P3/DDS/Nocturne.


While I'll agree its different, I'm assuming you're talking about DS: Kuzunoha Raidou...

Which IMHO, while I personally love DSII:Soul Hackers (recently replayed it on the PSP), I thought the most recent one was the worse in the series since the whole Majin Tensei thing.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Doctor_No said:
While I'll agree its different, I'm assuming you're talking about DS: Kuzunoha Raidou...

Which IMHO, while I personally love DSII:Soul Hackers (recently replayed it on the PSP), I thought the most recent one was the worse in the series since the whole Majin Tensei thing.
yeah Kazunoha Raidou
 

Bebpo

Banned
Doctor_No said:
While I'll agree its different, I'm assuming you're talking about DS: Kuzunoha Raidou...

Which IMHO, while I personally love DSII:Soul Hackers (recently replayed it on the PSP), I thought the most recent one was the worse in the series since the whole Majin Tensei thing.

You can emulate Saturn games on PSP? Because I'm pretty sure they only released DS1 on PSP.
 

Shouta

Member
Himuro said:
Eh.

SMT3 = dungeon crawler with little emphasis on story, but with an expansive world like any epic rpg. Demon fusion and traditional SMT gameplay.

DDS = traditional rpg with SMT set up, without the fusion but with just as much dungeon crawling. Lack of traditonal world map, more emphasis on story. Appeals to a different set of gamers than Nocturne because it's more traditional.

Persona 3 = this is just a guess, but sim slash dungeon crawler. Completely different from DS, DDS, and SMT3, because it's more non linear, with more options.

Nocturne and DDS have pretty much the same gameplay progression but with SMT having recruitable demons and DDS having the grids. They're pretty similar in that respect. The difference is that Nocturne seems to be more freeform because it doesn't have a unifying narrative and very few characters. It's actually as linear as DDS but doesn't seem like it since there's no narrative to push you along.

Persona 3 is similar in its Persona system but it does have the additional simulation/school life stuff which acts as a kind of expanded decision making from Nocturne although it doesn't affect your ending (it does affect something though =P). It also has a unifying story and actual characters like DDS. So I mean, Persona has stuff in common with both Nocturne and DDS, it's just the trappings like graphics, setting, music and etc that are different hence why they're comparable.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I think P3 far outclasses every single other SMT game. I don't have the love for SMT3 everyone else seems to have. Persona 3 is unique, engaging, and has battle I actually looked forward to participating in.
 
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