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2 Minutes Turkish · Jul 30, 2009

Stupid question maybe, but I'm looking at the release list over the next few months, and I'm surprised by some of the games and when they're being released.

For example. The Saboteur, which looks like an amazingly fun game, and another new IP from EA, is almost literally releasing the same day as ODST. Why would EA do this? They're basically killing the game before it's been given a chance.

Obviously situations like this are much worse for new IPs than established ones, but considering we have such a lull from February to July, I can't understand why some companies do this to their games.

Surely EA would look at the September to December period and say:

"Ok, what's being released towards the end of the year? Halo, Modern Warfare 2, Guitar Hero 5, Fifa 10, Uncharted 2 and Assassin's Creed 2? cool, let's release our unknown, umarketed title right in the middle of them." Then they complain, and blame development costs, and also the consumer for not buying the game.

This then furhter encourages them to put in less effort, and make shittier games.

Obviously this isn't JUST about Saboteur, this happens every year, and then Publishers wonder why some of their games don't succeed. Why wouldn't they save their titles for the quieter periods when many gamers are starving for new content?

Maybe there's something I'm not getting here, but it can't be as simple as "Release in time for Christmas", because THOSE consumers are already saving their pennies for the big guns.

So is there any other reason publishers send games out to die?

Yoshichan · Jul 30, 2009

I don't have an answer for that, but I'm pretty sure that's why Bayonetta and that other popular game just got delayed. I don't think they want to battle the giants.

Schmitty07 · Jul 30, 2009

I think the mindset is that around winter and Christmas time that everything can sell because there are so many people out there to buy games, as opposed to other times throughout the year.

Chromax · Jul 30, 2009

I think KOF XII should've waited a bit. =(

The_Inquisitor · Jul 30, 2009

Optimism of holiday sales? It's stupid and it rarely works. It's called the summer games drought each year for a reason.

Huevos de Oro · Jul 30, 2009

Wow, I didn't know The Saboteur's release date was jammed in the middle of such 400 pound gorillas. Hopefully they delay it a bit, because it surely deserves a better shot than this.

itxaka · Jul 30, 2009

isn't september-december the most high-selling point for videogames?

It only makes sense if that is true. Maybe if you release it on February it will sell 100k, but on those periods there is a chance that it sells 250k

I can't think of anything else.

2 Minutes Turkish · Jul 30, 2009

Seiken said:
I don't have an answer for that, but I'm pretty sure that's why Bayonetta and that other popular game just got delayed. I don't think they want to battle the giants.

Hey, haven't seen you in a while.

But yeah, seems like the smarter play.

Why anyone without a top selling well established IP, would release a game within a month of ODST I have no idea.

Zzoram · Jul 30, 2009

Plenty of games have sold huge in the summer when spaced far enough from competition. UFC did 800k on 360 alone didn't it? And UFC has never been a huge selling franchise.

The game publishers need to do what movie studios do. No more than 1 big release a week in each genre. Preferably give the really massive IPs 2 weeks distance.

mysticstylez · Jul 30, 2009

Zzoram said:
Plenty of games have sold huge in the summer when spaced far enough from competition. UFC did 800k on 360 alone didn't it? And UFC has never been a huge selling franchise.

The game publishers need to do what movie studios do. No more than 1 big release a week in each genre. Preferably give the really massive IPs 2 weeks distance.

That wouldn't work there are more games released each year than movies are put in theatres.

2 Minutes Turkish · Jul 30, 2009

itxaka said:
isn't september-december the most high-selling point for videogames?

It only makes sense if that is true. Maybe if you release it on February it will sell 100k, but on those periods there is a chance that it sells 250k

I can't think of anything else.

But that wouldn't work surely.

Most consumers will only buy a few games at christmas.

Wii owners would be buying: Wii Sports Resort, Mario Kart, Wii Fit, Wii Play
360 owners would be buying: Halo 3 ODST, CoD MW2, Guitar Hero 5, FIFA 10, Madden 10, Assassins 2
PS3 owners would be buying: Uncharted 2, CoD MW2, Guitar Hero 5, FIFA 10, Madden 10, Assassins 2.

Where does that leave Saboteur?

Surely they'd sell more copies in March where it doesn't have to compete with much if ANYTHING. Or April, or May, or June. These periods are when gamers a STARVING for even ONE new decent game.

Dead Space and Mirror's Edge suffered for this silly decision last year, so I can't fathom why EA would be doing this again.

HarrisonBike · Jul 30, 2009

I don't see why not. If anyone has noticed a good deal of the big games this holiday season got delayed into 2010. The Saboteur at this moment would be just as bad off in Q1 2010.

Secondly, a game has got to stand on its own merits. A modern say FPS and sci-fi FPS shouldn't hurt a WWII-era open world action game. If the game sells poorly it clearly means the team either did a poor job or made a game with no market. Then you have reasonable cause to dismiss a good portion of them.

The_Inquisitor · Jul 30, 2009

Zzoram said:
Plenty of games have sold huge in the summer when spaced far enough from competition. UFC did 800k on 360 alone didn't it? And UFC has never been a huge selling franchise.

The game publishers need to do what movie studios do. No more than 1 big release a week in each genre. Preferably give the really massive IPs 2 weeks distance.

Problem is now that gaming is a multibillion dollar industry, there are way to many hands in the cookie jar. I personally can't keep up with all the new games coming out these days. I'm not necessarily saying this is a bad thing, but when you look to spread things out, it's almost difficult at times because there are so many titles coming out at different times as it is. If you delay too long you risk a lot too.

Yoshichan · Jul 30, 2009

2 Minutes Turkish said:
Hey, haven't seen you in a while.

But yeah, seems like the smarter play.

Why anyone without a top selling well established IP, would release a game within a month of ODST I have no idea.

Yep, I'm back

! Splinter Cell and Red Steel 2 were the two other games I was talking about.

Zzoram · Jul 30, 2009

mysticstylez said:
That wouldn't work there are more games released each year than movies are put in theatres.

Maybe that's a hint that there's a problem. Make fewer, better titles. Finish them, then spend 3 months polishing while hyping up the game via marketing.

RBH · Jul 30, 2009

Zzoram said:
Plenty of games have sold huge in the summer when spaced far enough from competition. UFC did 800k on 360 alone didn't it? And UFC has never been a huge selling franchise.

That's because it was nowhere near as popular 5-10 years ago as it it today.

HarrisonBike · Jul 30, 2009

I guess if publishers started releasing in Q2 more often they'd have more success. Gaming pretty much grinds to a halt between late March/ early April all the way to September.

Kintaro · Jul 30, 2009

On the flipside, we're running into the situation we're finding ourselves in now. A glut of middle/higher tier games all jammed into each other in Jan - March when people are recovering from Xmas and have little money to spend.

Peronthious · Jul 30, 2009

Because it's the end of the fiscal year and they need to get their releases out the door to bring the earnings in. Some earnings are better than no earnings at all to report to investors.

mysticstylez · Jul 30, 2009

2 Minutes Turkish said:
Dead Space and Mirror's Edge suffered for this silly decision last year, so I can't fathom why EA would be doing this again.

Maybe they don't have much confidence in Saboteur, the game has been in development for a while, so why not put it out at the time when most shopping is done.

Dr. Kitty Muffins · Jul 30, 2009

As much as they research darn near everything in business, one would think that the games industry would stumble upon the idea of staggering their releases.

p01ar · Jul 30, 2009

2 Minutes Turkish said:
Stupid question maybe, but I'm looking at the release list over the next few months, and I'm surprised by some of the games and when they're being released.

For example. The Saboteur, which looks like an amazingly fun game, and another new IP from EA, is almost literally releasing the same day as ODST. Why would EA do this? They're basically killing the game before it's been given a chance.

Obviously situations like this are much worse for new IPs than established ones, but considering we have such a lull from February to July, I can't understand why some companies do this to their games.

Surely EA would look at the September to December period and say:

"Ok, what's being released towards the end of the year? Halo, Modern Warfare 2, Guitar Hero 5, Fifa 10, Uncharted 2 and Assassin's Creed 2? cool, let's release our unknown, umarketed title right in the middle of them." Then they complain, and blame development costs, and also the consumer for not buying the game.

This then furhter encourages them to put in less effort, and make shittier games.

Obviously this isn't JUST about Saboteur, this happens every year, and then Publishers wonder why some of their games don't succeed. Why wouldn't they save their titles for the quieter periods when many gamers are starving for new content?

Maybe there's something I'm not getting here, but it can't be as simple as "Release in time for Christmas", because THOSE consumers are already saving their pennies for the big guns.

So is there any other reason publishers send games out to die?

ODST is September 22nd
Saboteur is December 8th

And Jan-March is starting to look really busy as well.

DrPirate · Jul 30, 2009

2 Minutes Turkish said:
But that wouldn't work surely.

Most consumers will only buy a few games at christmas.

Wii owners would be buying: Wii Sports Resort, Mario Kart, Wii Fit, Wii Play
360 owners would be buying: Halo 3 ODST, CoD MW2, Guitar Hero 5, FIFA 10, Madden 10, Assassins 2
PS3 owners would be buying: Uncharted 2, CoD MW2, Guitar Hero 5, FIFA 10, Madden 10, Assassins 2.

Where does that leave Saboteur?

Surely they'd sell more copies in March where it doesn't have to compete with much if ANYTHING. Or April, or May, or June. These periods are when gamers a STARVING for even ONE new decent game.

Dead Space and Mirror's Edge suffered for this silly decision last year, so I can't fathom why EA would be doing this again.

Thing is, a ton of titles WERE delayed to fit that slot.

Among notables: Splinter Cell, Alan Wake, God of War 3, Gran Turismo (probably? possibly?), Heavy Rain, and others.

Sean · Jul 30, 2009

When do you suggest they release The Saboteur then?

2010 is jam packed with perhaps even more competition.

Guled · Jul 30, 2009

The Saboteur comes out in Dec, ODST in sept. There is a lot of room between them

Blueblur1 · Jul 30, 2009

It does seem like a game has a better chance of selling x amount of copies during the holiday period. It sucks for gamers such as myself that usually purchase five or more games a year but only pick up one or two during the holidays. Specifically, the Saboteur isn't on my list because I can only afford the two games I'm sure that I will enjoy. At least some publishers have delayed their titles ensuring that holiday 2009 isn't too saturated and that 2010 will be an interesting year to say the least.

itxaka · Jul 30, 2009

2 Minutes Turkish said:
But that wouldn't work surely.

Most consumers will only buy a few games at christmas.

Wii owners would be buying: Wii Sports Resort, Mario Kart, Wii Fit, Wii Play
360 owners would be buying: Halo 3 ODST, CoD MW2, Guitar Hero 5, FIFA 10, Madden 10, Assassins 2
PS3 owners would be buying: Uncharted 2, CoD MW2, Guitar Hero 5, FIFA 10, Madden 10, Assassins 2.

Where does that leave Saboteur?

Surely they'd sell more copies in March where it doesn't have to compete with much if ANYTHING. Or April, or May, or June. These periods are when gamers a STARVING for even ONE new decent game.

Dead Space and Mirror's Edge suffered for this silly decision last year, so I can't fathom why EA would be doing this again.

Yeah but they will probably measure like this:

February-March-April : 3 million games sold across all platforms
October-November-December: 15 million games sold across all platforms

OMFG! Let's put something in there soon! There is a posibility we are one of the big sellers in there!!1!

I can see that if you run some numbers (Analyst-gaf help needed) there is probably more possibilities of selling more during that timeframe even if our logic tell us that is not. The period has become the "AAA releases" period, so maybe there is a possibility of lesser know games getting dragged between all the games people buy for presents and such.

*Note that I use "maybe" a lot because I am just talking whatever comes into my head.

mrWalrus · Jul 30, 2009

I hear what you're saying, but it's a big pie, and ODST already has a very defined audience. Same goes for every other game you mentioned (MW 2, GH 5, Fifa 10 (not in the states), Uncharted 2, and AC 2).

Whether, or not, EA puts proper marketing behind the game, that's going to be the question. That's the only reason people are going to know the game exists, and thus how much of a success it'll ultimately be. From all I've seen so far.. Shaun (their lead character, 'the' Saboteur) has the chance to be the most like-able new character introduced in a while.

December 9th is a tough window tho.. whoever picked that date, regardless of what else is coming out that day, should have serious questions put on their understanding of the market.

StuBurns · Jul 30, 2009

The games industry is so borderline successful outside of a few, that the second something it done, they just have to put it out, they can't sit on finished content.

There's a good chance the next GTA will be gold months before it's out, and we'll see more of that from other publishers going forward.

Bearillusion · Jul 30, 2009

Common sense. Not that common.

Psy-Phi · Jul 30, 2009

Chromax said:
I think KOF XII should've waited a bit. =(

Me too...for some more characters...and to have avoided the sour launch for online play. And maybe think about the cost as well.

2 Minutes Turkish · Jul 30, 2009

December?

An Aussie website has a pre-order with a release date of September 25th.

edit: Just noticed, IGN AU has it as December 8. My bad. But still, that's less than a month after CoD4, and well after many people have already made their purchases for christmas.

Silly wither way.

I want this game to do well. EA should give it the chance that Mirror's Edge and Dead Space never got.

p01ar · Jul 30, 2009

2 Minutes Turkish said:
December?

An Aussie website has a pre-order with a release date of September 25th.

They announced the date as December 8th about 2 weeks ago.

The website probably had a temp date and hasn't changed it. or it's coming out early in Australia, but I highly doubt that.

Johann · Jul 30, 2009

Game development times tend to be very lengthy. If a game was meant to be a Holiday release (which contains the months with the most [and least] successful launches of new IPs), it's unlikely to be ready in time for a Summer release. The common belief among most publishers about Summer is that consumers will not play games but go outside and watch movies, which is a perfect time to have movie tie-in games but no major titles.

Alternatively, it would be very costly to delay the game to post-Holiday months since the publisher probably sunk a lot of money in preparing for a Holiday release and they'd piss off shareholders.

Commanche Raisin Toast · Jul 30, 2009

this whole 'spring is the new holiday season' with game releases worries me. if everyone moves to spring to avoid MW2, then at some point some games will be moving to summer to avoid the biggest of the spring releases.

im foreseeing summers becoming less of a dry spell and fall/winter becoming the bland stretch. everything is shifting. kind of like seasons in texas: summer last through october and winter lasts through march.

DeaconKnowledge · Jul 30, 2009

It's all about opportunity cost.

When a dev releases a game, there are typically two thoughts that run through their head;

"will this game survive alone in down season, when fewer consumers are buying games"

and

"If I release this game during the holiday buying season, yeah I have to go against juggernauts, but there are a bigger pool of eyes to see my game".

It's a gamble, and it always has been. The problem with spacing games out comes in a plethora of ways:

max dollars for entertainment
competing activities
weather (scoff all you want, but this is a big one.)

In the videogame world, it's better to send your game out to compete with other videogames than it is to send it to compete with other media or forms of entertainment, such as summer movies, or disinterest of the gamer period (sales for everything media based tend to dip in summer because historically people spend more time outside away from the TV).

There are titles that buck this trend (such as the Wii series titles, or in general games that are in "season" at a certain time, like sports games) however, the main mentality is that during the holiday, no matter what Titan is releasing the same week, better to do it then rather than when your audience doesn't give a shit about buying games period.

As with anything, there are some games big enough to buck even the drought spell (read, games that release in spring) and sometimes, devs have no choice, unless they want to take the loss for the quarter against their balance sheets and delay the game until the next fiscal year, which is happening more and more as budgets increase.

JoJo13 · Jul 30, 2009

Commanche Raisin Toast said:
this whole 'spring is the new holiday season' with game releases worries me. if everyone moves to spring to avoid MW2, then at some point some games will be moving to summer to avoid the biggest of the spring releases.

im foreseeing summers becoming less of a dry spell and fall/winter becoming the bland stretch. everything is shifting. kind of like seasons in texas: summer last through october and winter lasts through march.

Having more quality releases spread throughout the year shouldn't be something to worry about; it's something you should embrace.

Frankly, there's times in the holiday season where I simply don't have enough time for all of the releases. There's also times in the summer or spring (or even early fall right before the big rush) that I don't have anything to play.

soldat7 · Jul 30, 2009

Released a week after Halo 3, PGR4 was never given any sort of chance. That decision puzzles me to this day; it's not just bad games that get the shaft, unfortunately.

Quixzlizx · Jul 30, 2009

I have to think that Valkyria Chronicles probably could've been better served not being released 11/08 with zero marketing.

Stoney Mason · Jul 30, 2009

DeaconKnowledge said:
It's all about opportunity cost.

When a dev releases a game, there are typically two thoughts that run through their head;

"will this game survive alone in down season, when fewer consumers are buying games"

and

"If I release this game during the holiday buying season, yeah I have to go against juggernauts, but there are a bigger pool of eyes to see my game".

It's a gamble, and it always has been. The problem with spacing games out comes in a plethora of ways:

max dollars for entertainment
competing activities
weather (scoff all you want, but this is a big one.)

In the videogame world, it's better to send your game out to compete with other videogames than it is to send it to compete with other media or forms of entertainment, such as summer movies, or disinterest of the gamer period (sales for everything media based tend to dip in summer because historically people spend more time outside away from the TV).

There are titles that buck this trend (such as the Wii series titles, or in general games that are in "season" at a certain time, like sports games) however, the main mentality is that during the holiday, no matter what Titan is releasing the same week, better to do it then rather than when your audience doesn't give a shit about buying games period.

As with anything, there are some games big enough to buck even the drought spell (read, games that release in spring) and sometimes, devs have no choice, unless they want to take the loss for the quarter against their balance sheets and delay the game until the next fiscal year, which is happening more and more as budgets increase.

I was going to post but then I read this one and it pretty much summed up what I would have posted.

Zapages · Jul 30, 2009

or they'll send two similar games to die: Prince of Persia Sands of Time and Beyond Good and Evil... BG&E receiving the more fatal of the blows to it.

tokkun · Jul 30, 2009

Maybe they're counting on customers to buy Saboteur when they come back to trade in Assassin's Creed 2.

hatchx · Jul 30, 2009

I think review scores and quality of the title should hold some merit.

If Sabatour gets a 95 on metacritic and is actually an outstanding game, it will sell well.

Bloodworth · Jul 30, 2009

Yeah, this is what bugs me about Sega's stance on Yakuza 3. Yakuza 2 didn't sell because it was on an outdated platform, it was released after Japan was gearing up for 3 (not to mention the already-released prequel), and there was almost no promotion whatsoever. All this on top of being pushed out right before the holiday rush.

Nirolak · Jul 30, 2009

Here are just some of the titles targeted for the first half of 2010.

-Final Fantasy XIII
-God of War 3
-Mass Effect 2
-Lost Planet 2
-Splinter Cell: Conviction
-Alan Wake
-Bioshock 2
-Max Payne 3
-Battlefield: Bad Company 2
-Dead Rising 2
-Mafia II
-APB
-Heavy Rain
-Lords of Shadow
-Bayonetta
-Darksiders: Wrath of War
-Red Dead Redemption
-Dante's Inferno
-Resonance of Fate
-R.U.S.E.
-Brink
-Aliens vs. Predator 3
-The Agency
-I Am Alive

Could someone remind me why they think it's a good idea to release an unknown title then.

Let's face it, the industry is really crowded with games now, and Fall isn't looking that much worse than Spring anymore.

Freedom = $1.05 · Jul 30, 2009

This thread was made for Borderlands. That game looks so great, yet I wouldn't be surprised if it did a Mirror's Edge.

sn00zer · Jul 30, 2009

Why arent games releasd at the bginning of summer, kids all over are going on summer break, seems like an untapped gold mine to me

Ceebs · Jul 30, 2009

Zzoram said:
The game publishers need to do what movie studios do. No more than 1 big release a week in each genre. Preferably give the really massive IPs 2 weeks distance.

Other than quantity of games vs. movies, the big thing games lack is counter programing for releases. Take a look at what movies come out each week. You may have a big tent pole action movie, but rival studios will drop in an adult skewing drama or a romantic comedy as something other than the explosion-fest opening that same week.

With games a huge percentage of the games released are those big budget things blowing up affairs. Look at Nintendo's sales of their 1st party Wii games. They manage to sell amazingly even when there are huge AAA HD games coming out at the same time. Target a different audience and you are not competing over the same customers.

-viper- · Jul 30, 2009

Nirolak said:
Here are just some of the titles targeted for the first half of 2010.

-Final Fantasy XIII
-God of War 3
-Mass Effect 2
-Lost Planet 2
-Splinter Cell: Conviction
-Alan Wake
-Bioshock 2
-Max Payne 3
-Battlefield: Bad Company 2
-Dead Rising 2
-Mafia II
-APB
-Heavy Rain
-Lords of Shadow
-Bayonetta
-Darksiders: Wrath of War
-Red Dead Redemption
-Dante's Inferno
-Resonance of Fate
-R.U.S.E.
-Brink
-Aliens vs. Predator 3
-The Agency
-I Am Alive

Could someone remind me why they think it's a good idea to release an unknown title then.

Let's face it, the industry is really crowded with games now, and Fall isn't looking that much worse than Spring anymore.

Wow. Too many games coming out in 2010. I hope most of these games have demos..

webrunner · Jul 30, 2009

There's only one explanation for this...

SABOTAGE!

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