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Mike_Hawk689 · Nov 23, 2015

Trigger said:
I think it's unfortunate that Fire got the ax. He was one of the more proactive posters. I think that him being eliminated was definitely a move by mafia to stifle Day 2 talk. I think it's suspicious that he was targeted over Coppa and Sorian. I think one or both might be mafia.

If one of them would be mafia, they never would killed Fire, because Fire didn't target any one of them leaving them under the radar.
In the same thinking as you, if one of them was mafia, killing Fire would paint a target on their back. I think mafia is more careful with they choice as they can discuss it during the night phase.

Trigger · Nov 23, 2015

Sorian said:
You all can debate on me if you'd like if you really think I'm scum and I'll be happy to address your worries but I will say that I am near certain (95%) that Coppa is town.

His posts were helpful to town in terms of generating discussion. I just find it odd that neither one of you were targeted for the kill or this strange haiku power. I don't think it's completely implausible that mafia was concerned about you two being protected.

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

Trigger said:
His posts were helpful to town in terms of generating discussion. I just find it odd that neither one of you were targeted for the kill or this strange haiku power. I don't think it's completely implausible that mafia was concerned about you two being protected.

As I mentioned earlier, I think the haiku thing is a power on the town side, not the scum side but what are your thoughts on it?

Mike_Hawk689 · Nov 23, 2015

Are we really taking the haiku thing seriously?
Isn't Ty4on just fucking with us?
(Next thing you know I get hit by it)

Why did I say that?
Why didn't I believe it?
Refrigerator

Coppanuva · Nov 23, 2015

Trigger said:
His posts were helpful to town in terms of generating discussion. I just find it odd that neither one of you were targeted for the kill or this strange haiku power. I don't think it's completely implausible that mafia was concerned about you two being protected.

That's assuming the Haiku power is from scum. If it's from a neutral, town, or some other means the Scum can't control (RNG from Retro if he really wants to be a jerk), it makes sense. I'm not sure why the haiku is put on Ty4on (Sorian's guess on it being due to him being less talkative is the best I can think of so far).

I'll post more on this later if you want, but there's also the possibility that they thought killing Sorian or I would have given town more info than killing Fireblend. I have meetings for the next hour and a half though, so I'll be quiet until then.

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

Mike_Hawk689 said:
Are we really taking the haiku thing seriously?
Isn't Ty4on just fucking with us?
(Next thing you know I get hit by it)

Why did I say that?
Why didn't I believe it?
Refrigerator

I take it seriously. The potential gain from faking something like this is so miniscule vs. the potential risk. The only players that would gain from faking something like this are neutral or scum and it will come out near game's end if there is no such power (just based on process of elimination once we have to start revealing) and the person faking would be fucked.

Warxard · Nov 23, 2015

Unmasked Ferret said:
So I cant really address reason one because Im not entirely sure I understand what you are trying to say. There really isnt an accusation there that I can see, so can you explain this more or can someone else try to explain it to me? Im especially confused by it because the quote you provide with it was just me answering Mikes question with what I thought was a reason why some people might not like him or others having safe opinions so it has nothing to do with accusations against me.

I was addressing the shift in tone regarding your dialogue with the rest of the townies to be a lot more sudden and constructed than the rest of your posts and I chose the first quoted blurb as like the starting point to where you can notice the shift. The fact that say the majority of your posts (at the time of writing this you have eighteen total posts and the only seven or so is you either commenting on my comments and/or joining UltraJay in accusing Darklighter). are fluff makes it much more noticable as well. Which is why I have the bolded. Then again a contradiction to the first reason of my assumption for you is that you are a newbie like myself.

Im also not sure if when you say There's multiple posts of dialogue within the town that can contribute to this reason, more notably the interaction between Ferret and Darklighter you are referring to reason one or referring to why your vote was still on me at that point, which if its the latter then my post directed towards Darklighter didnt happen until later, Im going to assume its there former but I would like to be sure.

Yes, still referring to you and the last ~seven or so posts before you posted this one.

Im also going to point out that you use the phrase piling accusations at the beginning of reason one, and again I wouldnt call what happened at the start of day one being accused of anything, but I already made a post about that.

Of course, I went with this because with the idea of you being new like myself, you wanted to do the most to get the heat off of you.

He clearly is reacting to people talking about his own inactivity and he votes on someone who has a vote on him. I dont like that he tried to justify his absence and likely future absences by saying that he pretty much only checks GAF once a day, and I dont like that he dropped his vote on Royal_Flush without any indication why in his post, I assume that he did it purely because Royal_Flush voted for him. These are the reasons I voted for him. I did ask him about his vote on RF but who knows when or if hell answer. If he does come back and answer while Im awake, his reason was not just a revenge vote, and he sticks around to discuss some of whats happened so far I might be willing to change my vote. Also when you said that I was being confrontational for the amount of votes I have on me were you referring to your vote specifically or did I have some other votes on me that Im somehow overlooking? If its the former arent you being rather confrontational yourself?

I'm going to bold the above because I actually did not notice that he dropped his vote after someone voted for him. Could be nothing, but hell anything can help at this point.

As for the second bolded blurb, I was referring to the earlier votes on you before they were nixed and reduced to my sole vote on you.

On top of that my RNG vote was still on Royal_Flush and I didnt want to leave it on him forever, I saw Darklighter as someone who deserved a vote at the time.

This seems kind of dangerous to do?

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

I'm going to watch this play out but as an aside, I do want to mention that I currently read Boo Boo'N as leaning town and Ferret as leaning scum so my view on their back and forth is going to be biased. I'm saving my heavy hits for Ferret for after I deal with this TL21xx situation but they are coming.

Trigger · Nov 23, 2015

Sorian said:
As I mentioned earlier, I think the haiku thing is a power on the town side, not the scum side but what are your thoughts on it?

It seems like a way to limit a person's ability to give reads. Trying to convey all your thoughts in a limited fashion doesn't seem useful to town in any way. I'd think scum would get more benefit out of that. On the flipside, maybe there's some positive benefit to town using this? I can't really think of any.

It could also just exist to screw with us.

Mike_Hawk689 said:
Are we really taking the haiku thing seriously?
Isn't Ty4on just fucking with us?
(Next thing you know I get hit by it)

Why did I say that?
Why didn't I believe it?
Refrigerator

I can't think of a reason not to take it seriously.

Coppanuva said:
That's assuming the Haiku power is from scum. If it's from a neutral, town, or some other means the Scum can't control (RNG from Retro if he really wants to be a jerk), it makes sense. I'm not sure why the haiku is put on Ty4on (Sorian's guess on it being due to him being less talkative is the best I can think of so far).

I'll post more on this later if you want, but there's also the possibility that they thought killing Sorian or I would have given town more info than killing Fireblend. I have meetings for the next hour and a half though, so I'll be quiet until then.

A likely alternative. I won't put anyone above suspicion in the mean time though.

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

Trigger said:
It seems like a way to limit a person's ability to give reads. Trying to convey all your thoughts in a limited fashion doesn't seem useful to town in any way. I'd think scum would get more benefit out of that. On the flipside, maybe there's some positive benefit to town using this? I can't really think of any.

It could also just exist to screw with us.

Town power roles do not have to be useful and can actively work against us. Our dear departed Fireblend had a power in a past mafia game that made it so that the targeted had to post in only images for one day phase. Fireblend was town aligned and the only person he hit was a town player so a huge net negative. Fireblend's reasoning for doing that was so that people knew the PR existed but he was aware that it was a harmful power and did not use it again.

There are also PRs that literally have 0 chance of helping town like a miller which shows up as scum when investigated but the person is actually town-aligned. These negative PRs are usually placed on the town side because we have a bigger team and they are useful in balancing the game so that the smaller scum team has a fighting chance.

Warxard · Nov 23, 2015

Well since Ty4on is targeted, a good start to look into would be the people he voted for and suspected, which is:

Mike_Hawk689 - too safe, agreeable opinions. Final vote before voting stopped.
squidyj - 'proxy' due to the fact that squidy has more experience than MH who's a newcomer
ScraftyDevil - Voted for the sake of having a vote.
Unmasked Ferret - One of the first votes in the game iirc, probably means nothing.

Mike Hawk's here now, and isn't...really taking the haiku stuff to heart. So uh.

I think, just for now I'll put my vote on him.

VOTE: Mike_Hawk689

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

Boo Boo'n said:
Well since Ty4on is targeted, a good start to look into would be the people he voted for and suspected, which is:

Mike Hawk's here now, and isn't...really taking the haiku stuff to heart. So uh.

I think, just for now I'll put my vote on him.

VOTE: Mike_Hawk689

You'll want to highlight that if you want it to count.

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

As an aside, is there a reason the voting tool isn't updating for day 2?

Warxard · Nov 23, 2015

Ugggghhhhh.

VOTE: Mike_Hawk689

RetroMG · Nov 23, 2015

Sorian said:
As an aside, is there a reason the voting tool isn't updating for day 2?

I will go look.

EDIT: It is, you just have to keep scrolling or use the links up at the top.
EDIT2: I edited the link so that it goes right to Day 2.

Mike_Hawk689 · Nov 23, 2015

Boo Boo'n said:
Well since Ty4on is targeted, a good start to look into would be the people he voted for and suspected, which is:

Mike Hawk's here now, and isn't...really taking the haiku stuff to heart. So uh.

I think, just for now I'll put my vote on him.

VOTE: Mike_Hawk689

Lol guys come on Haikus? If it actually existed, I believe it's a scum power which makes you post in Haiku or else you die. (Crazy theory but it's Night Vale).
If I was scum and knew about the power, why would I put myself out there and say the haiku is total bs?
In Archer as a scum, I played it with the least activity that I could to stay under the radar. I doubt that any scum would like to stand out like I'm doing right now.
That it why sir, you are incorrect!

Trigger · Nov 23, 2015

Mike, I think it's more useful for town as a whole to assume it's real than to write it off as fake.

Sorian said:
Town power roles do not have to be useful and can actively work against us. Our dear departed Fireblend had a power in a past mafia game that made it so that the targeted had to post in only images for one day phase. Fireblend was town aligned and the only person he hit was a town player so a huge net negative. Fireblend's reasoning for doing that was so that people knew the PR existed but he was aware that it was a harmful power and did not use it again.

There are also PRs that literally have 0 chance of helping town like a miller which shows up as scum when investigated but the person is actually town-aligned. These negative PRs are usually placed on the town side because we have a bigger team and they are useful in balancing the game so that the smaller scum team has a fighting chance.

Well that's certainly food for thought. Thank you.

Mike_Hawk689 · Nov 23, 2015

The only way for me to believe that Haikus power is real, is for me to get hit by it, or that D3 shows another person with haikus.
So far since I don't believe it, Ty4on is just digging a hole for himself.

VOTE: Ty4on

Royal_Flush · Nov 23, 2015

Mike_Hawk689 said:
The only way for me to believe that Haikus power is real, is for me to get hit by it, or that D3 shows another person with haikus.
So far since I don't believe it, Ty4on is just digging a hole for himself.

VOTE: Ty4on

Christ, just read the last few days of Cthulhu and what happened to Rats. The Haiku thing could as well just be a negative side effect of some pro town PR.

Mike_Hawk689 · Nov 23, 2015

Royal_Flush said:
Christ, just read the last few days of Cthulhu and what happened to Rats. The Haiku thing could as well just be a negative side effect of some pro town PR.

Fill me up then lol I don't have the time to read past games
Don't hate me for this R_F

Mike_Hawk689 · Nov 23, 2015

Another great reason that I'm town lol.
If I were scum my buddies would've told me to stfu!

Royal_Flush · Nov 23, 2015

Mike_Hawk689 said:
Fill me up then lol I don't have the time to read past games
Don't hate me for this R_F

Rats used an item to protect his lover partner but as a cost he could only post in Haikus for the rest of the game.

Mike_Hawk689 · Nov 23, 2015

Royal_Flush said:
Rats used an item to protect his lover partner but as a cost he could only post in Haikus for the rest of the game.

lmao who was the gamerunner?

Warxard · Nov 23, 2015

Ty4on said:
It will dissapear
Unless they target again
No more mist in me

Ty4on was targeted by ~someone~, so it's possible that he didn't do the thing Royal_Flush suggested.

Ty4on said:
No code made by me
Way too hard to do right now
I will shorten things

The first part of this haiku is curious: are you supposed to relay some sort of message made by someone else in the haiku?

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

RetroMG said:
I will go look.

EDIT: It is, you just have to keep scrolling or use the links up at the top.
EDIT2: I edited the link so that it goes right to Day 2.

It wasn't working for me before

Good now though

Mike_Hawk689 said:
Lol guys come on Haikus? If it actually existed, I believe it's a scum power which makes you post in Haiku or else you die. (Crazy theory but it's Night Vale).
If I was scum and knew about the power, why would I put myself out there and say the haiku is total bs?
In Archer as a scum, I played it with the least activity that I could to stay under the radar. I doubt that any scum would like to stand out like I'm doing right now.
That it why sir, you are incorrect!

Mike_Hawk689 said:
The only way for me to believe that Haikus power is real, is for me to get hit by it, or that D3 shows another person with haikus.
So far since I don't believe it, Ty4on is just digging a hole for himself.

VOTE: Ty4on

This all seems extremely odd, how is it surprising to you that there are PRs that can affect someone and you would have no way of knowing it. This all smells a lot like shit and this:

Mike_Hawk689 said:
Another great reason that I'm town lol.
If I were scum my buddies would've told me to stfu!

is even scummier. You are trying to sell so hard that you are town when no one is even asking right now.

TL21xx · Nov 23, 2015

Sorian said:
Sorry to see you go night 1 again Fire :/

Good to know that my read wasn't terrible though.

Alright TL21xx, we've had a night phase. What was I supposed to be waiting for?

VOTE: TL21xx

I got really busy this weekend and wasn't able to PM to execute. It happens next night phase or I'll show myself the door. I'd rather not share the particulars of my role, but I can confirm it will help town thin out the herd.

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

Royal_Flush said:
Rats used an item to protect his lover partner but as a cost he could only post in Haikus for the rest of the game.

Actually Rats only had to post haiku for one day phase.

Mike_Hawk689 said:
lmao who was the gamerunner?

Traube/Zatoth

Boo Boo'n said:
The first part of this haiku is curious: are you supposed to relay some sort of message made by someone else in the haiku?

No, the code portion was in response to Coppa's question here:

Coppanuva said:
...goddammit.

Though it does look like this is coded somewhat from Ty4on. I'll probably spend some time trying to figure out what it means.

Coppa believed that Ty4on was trying to convey more than he actually was.

Ty4on · Nov 23, 2015

Mike_Hawk689 said:
Lol guys come on Haikus? If it actually existed, I believe it's a scum power which makes you post in Haiku or else you die. (Crazy theory but it's Night Vale).
If I was scum and knew about the power, why would I put myself out there and say the haiku is total bs?
In Archer as a scum, I played it with the least activity that I could to stay under the radar. I doubt that any scum would like to stand out like I'm doing right now.
That it why sir, you are incorrect!

WIFOM we ignore
Why you think I lie we don't
And what's so crazy?

You are very tense
If you want to silence me
That makes perfect sense

squidyj · Nov 23, 2015

Trigger said:
Mike, I think it's more useful for town as a whole to assume it's real than to write it off as fake.

Well that's certainly food for thought. Thank you.

So lets think about it a little bit.
If we suggest that this is really a thing then Ty4on has been targeted by someone. This someone disrupts Ty4on's ability to communicate effectively with the rest of the game, therefore this predisposes us to believe it is not a town power role. I think it has potential to be neutral or scum aligned.

If Ty4on's been targeted by a neutral I believe that there isn't much we can learn from the situation, it is likely that either using this power on multiple players, or using a suite of powers on players is, or is part of, that player's win condition. The only thing is that it gives us a plausible world where Ty4on has been targeted and is scum. I don't think this is incredibly probable but it is possible so we can't treat Ty4on as confirmed town.

If Ty4on'sj been targeted by mafia then we know that they were thought he was the best player to disrupt for some reason. It's possible mafia somehow has more information about Ty4on than we do which guides their decision-making, but even if that's true it shouldn't be confirmed now.

As far as the publicly available information, we have a small set of reads by Ty4on from day 1, it seems hard to believe that mafia would believe that targeting Ty4on would save one of their teammates on that list as to my thinking, with the limited amount of information to talk about at this point, it would push discussion onto those people, as it seems to have already. As such I would say that it seems likely for there to be between 0 and 1 scum in that list, not more than that, I can't see scum throwing a spotlight on more than one player in their team without reason.

Then there's the possibility of him faking it. The question arises from that "to what end"
It reduces his ability to communicate and thus the burden of communication on him, while suggesting towniness, but if it remains unconfirmed it does little and becomes incredibly suspicious as the game goes on. This leads me to believe that he's not faking, in spite of the fact that Haiku has been used in a different game already. Either way if the same thing happens to a different player next day phase we will know for certain so even if you don't find his Haikus to be credible we should probably not be lynching him today.

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

TL21xx said:
I got really busy this weekend and wasn't able to PM to execute. It happens next night phase or I'll show myself the door. I'd rather not share the particulars of my role, but I can confirm it will help town thin out the herd.

What? No.

UNVOTE

VOTE: TL21xx

For emphasis.

TL21xx · Nov 23, 2015

Sorian said:
What? No.

UNVOTE

VOTE: TL21xx

For emphasis.

Dude, lay off

Ty4on · Nov 23, 2015

I must write haikus
If not I role block myself
If no role no vote

They may want my role
They may think if I don't stop
I protect my role

They may think a vote
Is worth less than a free post
And I have a role

I will not do that
I will not give them info
But town should know this

I am no poet
I only hope you can grasp
What I am saying

ScraftyDevil · Nov 23, 2015

Mike_Hawk689 said:
Another great reason that I'm town lol.
If I were scum my buddies would've told me to stfu!

This seems like, totally fishy to me. It's like that movie I saw that one time where they like, try to plant ideas in peoples' heads? I think it was called, like, Inspection?

TL21xx · Nov 23, 2015

Fine, if you all want to throw it away, lynch me. It's not my fault that the night phase aligned with my grad school app deadline.

Warxard · Nov 23, 2015

TL21xx said:
I got really busy this weekend and wasn't able to PM to execute. It happens next night phase or I'll show myself the door. I'd rather not share the particulars of my role, but I can confirm it will help town thin out the herd.

Mike_Hawk689 · Nov 23, 2015

Ty4on said:
I must write haikus
If not I role block myself
If no role no vote

They may want my role
They may think if I don't stop
I protect my role

They may think a vote
Is worth less than a free post
And I have a role

I will not do that
I will not give them info
But town should know this

I am no poet
I only hope you can grasp
What I am saying

You sir have my respect HAHAHAHAHA

Unmasked Ferret · Nov 23, 2015

I have a bit of time before my next class starts.

I need to make sure something is clear about my last post. When I said that Dark dropped his vote on RF I meant that he placed his vote onto RF not that he removed it. I see now that dropped could and probably is used for the removing of votes.

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

Ty4on said:
I must write haikus
If not I role block myself
If no role no vote

They may want my role
They may think if I don't stop
I protect my role

They may think a vote
Is worth less than a free post
And I have a role

I will not do that
I will not give them info
But town should know this

I am no poet
I only hope you can grasp
What I am saying

Huh, I find it interesting that you actually got some type of punishment if you don't post in haiku. I've never been the target of something like this but doesn't the gamerunner just kind of honor system this with a possible modkill dangling if the person doesn't oblige. Kind of surprised that you get an out from all of this if you so choose.

TL21xx said:
Fine, if you all want to throw it away, lynch me. It's not my fault that the night phase aligned with my grad school app deadline.

I get real life and all of that but you had to send one PM? Sounds more like you are trying to stall for time. We gave you one day, I'm not convinced we should be giving you two.

Mike_Hawk689 · Nov 23, 2015

Sorian said:
It wasn't working for me before Good now though

This all seems extremely odd, how is it surprising to you that there are PRs that can affect someone and you would have no way of knowing it. This all smells a lot like shit and this:

is even scummier. You are trying to sell so hard that you are town when no one is even asking right now.

Boo Boo voted for me so I'm just explaining my thoughts on the haikus

TL21xx · Nov 23, 2015

Sorian said:
I get real life and all of that but you had to send one PM? Sounds more like you are trying to stall for time. We gave you one day, I'm not convinced we should be giving you two.

And my computer was unavailable. I lost track of time because I needed to get everything rendered (film school). Was about to send the PM this afternoon after lunch and I find out that the day phase already started. No trolling.

Ty4on · Nov 23, 2015

Boo Boo'n said:
Ty4on was targeted by ~someone~, so it's possible that he didn't do the thing Royal_Flush suggested.

The first part of this haiku is curious: are you supposed to relay some sort of message made by someone else in the haiku?

I did not do it
It said it came from a mist
Made by a player

I wrote no message
Made by another player
Just clumsy writing

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

Mike_Hawk689 said:
Boo Boo voted for me so I'm just explaining my thoughts on the haikus

And that's fine but it almost seems like you are trying to discredit this whole haiku thing in an attempt to shrug off a vote. This power could be a very real threat and deserves talking time, I understand you wanting to not be voted out but you seem fine discrediting a whole issue just to save yourself, not very town like at all actually.

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

Ty4on said:
I did not do it
It said it came from a mist
Made by a player

I wrote no message
Made by another player
Just clumsy writing

Oh, that mist thing you said earlier was in the actual PM you received. Well then, what is this we are dealing with? The glow cloud?

TL21xx · Nov 23, 2015

It's Mafia folks, things like a Haiku curse are totally the norm. Obviously we need to poke more, but it very well could be legit.

Unmasked Ferret · Nov 23, 2015

Mike_Hawk689 said:
Good luck bud. (in case you do have an exam)

Thanks man. I'll do my best.

Boo Boo'n said:
I was addressing the shift in tone regarding your dialogue with the rest of the townies to be a lot more sudden and constructed than the rest of your posts and I chose the first quoted blurb as like the starting point to where you can notice the shift. The fact that say the majority of your posts (at the time of writing this you have eighteen total posts and the only seven or so is you either commenting on my comments and/or joining UltraJay in accusing Darklighter). are fluff makes it much more noticable as well. Which is why I have the bolded. Then again a contradiction to the first reason of my assumption for you is that you are a newbie like myself.

Oh OK, thanks for clarifying. Yeah I realize that I post(ed) a lot of fluff and was (an am) trying to be more contributive.

Boo Boo'n said:
Of course, I went with this because with the idea of you being new like myself, you wanted to do the most to get the heat off of you.

I'm going to bold the above because I actually did not notice that he dropped his vote after someone voted for him. Could be nothing, but hell anything can help at this point.

As for the second bolded blurb, I was referring to the earlier votes on you before they were nixed and reduced to my sole vote on you.

OK I was just making sure.

I just made a post about the second paragraph here, but I want to make sure you understand that when I said dropped his vote I mean tJat he put his vote onto Royal_Flush.

But I still only had one vote on me at the time right?

Boo Boo'n said:
This seems kind of dangerous to do?

Does it? This may also be because I worded this weirdly.

My last class is about to start.

Razmos · Nov 23, 2015

Sorian said:
Oh, that mist thing you said earlier was in the actual PM you received. Well then, what is this we are dealing with? The glow cloud?

The glow cloud was my first thought when he said it, what with the brainwashing powers and all.

I can't remember if there was mist mentioned anywhere else in Night Vale, and especially none relating to a character.

Sorian · Nov 23, 2015

TL21xx said:
And my computer was unavailable. I lost track of time because I needed to get everything rendered (film school). Was about to send the PM this afternoon after lunch and I find out that the day phase already started. No trolling.

This is obnoxious, I'm prone to believe you but only because using real life as a lie would be top level bullshit but there is no actual rule against it either.

Sorian said:
Oh, that mist thing you said earlier was in the actual PM you received. Well then, what is this we are dealing with? The glow cloud?

Also for this, there is also Deb the sentient patch of haze. I don't see/can think of anything that is involved with a mist though in night vale. Both the glow cloud and deb would be night vale aligned if strex/desert bluffs is the mafia but if scum is just bad things that have happened to night vale at some point then glow cloud could be scum.

ScraftyDevil · Nov 23, 2015

TL, the mafia like, already knows that's you're like, a special guy. Can you give us like, even the teeniest tiniest hint so that we know you're not like, trying to totally skitch with us?

TL21xx · Nov 23, 2015

Well, I've been pretty open about who I am in my early posts, but that would require a bit of post searching. I'm not trying to stir up too much trouble, but it seems it's just in my nature.

Mike_Hawk689 · Nov 23, 2015

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