*Ty4onion as well
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Love Boat 2 [Mafia] |OT| Electric Boogalove
- Thread starter Burbeting
- Start date
That's a great name lol
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
DAY 3 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:
Ourobolus & kingkitty (8)
Sorian 2588 2930
franconp 2589
Royal_Flush 2592
nin1000 2595
Natiko 2599
Dr. Worm 2600
Sawneeks 2878
hey_monkey 2952
Nomadic Sparks 3021
hey_monkey & Royal_Flush (1)
Ty4on 2946
Sawneeks & Sorian (1)
Ourobolus 2597
No active vote for Day 3: AbsolutBro, acohrs, CrimsonFist, Darryl, Karkador, kingkitty, rac, Sophia, Sorian (has previously voted), StarSketch, Trigger, Xbro
Day 3 Postcount: AbsolutBro 1, acohrs 0, CrimsonFist 19, Darryl 17, Dr. Worm 35, franconp 39, hey_monkey 32, Karkador 0, kingkitty 15, Natiko 44, nin1000 4, Nomadic Sparks 12, Ourobolus 153, rac 0, Royal_Flush 12, Sawneeks 8, Sophia 21, Sorian 41, StarSketch 5, Trigger 0, Ty4on 39, Xbro 5
Names in italics joined in the middle of this current day phase
Day 3 ends:
Automated vote tally here
12 votes for majority
Ourobolus & kingkitty (8)
franconp 2589
Royal_Flush 2592
nin1000 2595
Natiko 2599
Dr. Worm 2600
Sawneeks 2878
hey_monkey 2952
Nomadic Sparks 3021
hey_monkey & Royal_Flush (1)
Ty4on 2946
Sawneeks & Sorian (1)
Ourobolus 2597
No active vote for Day 3: AbsolutBro, acohrs, CrimsonFist, Darryl, Karkador, kingkitty, rac, Sophia, Sorian (has previously voted), StarSketch, Trigger, Xbro
Day 3 Postcount: AbsolutBro 1, acohrs 0, CrimsonFist 19, Darryl 17, Dr. Worm 35, franconp 39, hey_monkey 32, Karkador 0, kingkitty 15, Natiko 44, nin1000 4, Nomadic Sparks 12, Ourobolus 153, rac 0, Royal_Flush 12, Sawneeks 8, Sophia 21, Sorian 41, StarSketch 5, Trigger 0, Ty4on 39, Xbro 5
Names in italics joined in the middle of this current day phase
Day 3 ends:
Automated vote tally here
12 votes for majority
??
Only two of us questioned you, not sure why you're getting so defensive over it. :x
Any general thoughts when you catch up would be great plz
Same goes to Rac/Acohrs.
also, welcome!
Okay, question. I keep seeing this be brought up by both of you but you both seemed very concerned with your survival and how you can use the messages to ensure you lived. Why would it matter that you sent a message ( which essentially amounted into a 'we'll call you when we need you' and nothing else ) to someone who was going to die or not? Now if you sent something like reads then that would make sense but both of your messages essentially break down into having a back-up plan that you could pull out if you needed help.
That doesn't make sense from a Townie perspective. :x
....what? what does this even mean.
Uh...because if the player is dead that night the message is wasted?
hey_monkey
Banned
I thought the virgins make the hooker likely, regardless of Ourokitty's claim?
so like are you guys scum or....?
jk
There's been so much back and forth today (which is good) that I didn't even see your post. Welcome! It was 2600ish when I came in and now it is... more... so have fun with that. :x Can't wait to see fresh perspective - maybe especially on the obvious, like Ourokitty, but also on the less obvious, like nin and Trigger's relative silence.
Well, three or so but it's just that you'd think by now I'd have learned not to create weird situations wholecloth. Maybe by game 5. Or maybe I will remain an awkward presence forever!
it me:
hey_monkey
Banned
If you're gonna indict the arguments, you gotta actually indict them, friendOuro. As I see it there are a lot of arguments in different quarters, some with more grounding than others, but they do tell a pretty coherent story - some voting issues, your defense of fepsune for reasons, your cageyness around the claim, kitty filling in the claim, a roleblocker that shouldn't have been on you both nights if it's a hooker, messages that didn't really do anything, and your insistence that your role has good utility despite your lack of use for same.
There's more, like, yes, the semantics of being Bowser/Waluigi rather than shipping them, some early things, notes about reads, etc., but the above seems to be the meat of it. So which part isn't coherent?
That first paragraph are all legit things that we can discuss and have discussed. I'm referring to the recent posts over the past page or two that are semantic bullshit, speculation on wildly extreme scenarios, and simply being incoherent.
hey_monkey
Banned
What is mafia if not also semantic bullshit and speculation, coupled with all the rest? I mean, honest question. I know all of the above can be frustrating, but so can so-called "gut reads," and people do that, too. It's all just tools in the toolbox, no?
My stupid browser closed while I was typing a list up, so woo...gimme a second.
And no, not all arguments are created equal. If I called Xbro scum because he misspelled the word "the" in a post of his, then we're getting into bullshit.
These are the ridiculous arguments being levied at myself and kitty. The people making the arguments clearly are not functioning today and really look scummy:
My point is this: If you want to vote for me, I'd rather you just come in and say "I think he's scum," plop down a vote, and be done with it, than try to engage in some of the most ridiculous arguments I've seen this side of Volcano Island.
My point is this: If you want to vote for me, I'd rather you just come in and say "I think he's scum," plop down a vote, and be done with it, than try to engage in some of the most ridiculous arguments I've seen this side of Volcano Island.
Ok, I was just mostly refreshing in between pulls in my game and never really had anything to say except for that 10/10 joke but Ouro, it more sounds like you just don't like the arguments. We're saying your actions just don't make sense through a town lens, thats not really incoherent.
That part is absolutely fine. Nothing I just posted has anything to do with an alignment and more about how dumb the arguments are. Either they are ignorant of other facts in the game, are misunderstanding how a role would work (assuming I have said role), or why does "my" (as in the person making the argument) does my clearly scummy behavior seem scummy to you?
Arguments are fine. Bullshit arguments are a waste of time.
hey_monkey
Banned
I've never played in a game with a messenger - so maybe I'm wrong - but it seems to me that sending a message with reads or anything else helps highlight that if the (town) mailman is then killed. For things that otherwise might be missed. So like if I really wanted to make sure no one missed one part of an argument, especially if there's a lot of traction and discussion on it, I might put that in a message.
But that does come down to play style in the end, I guess. What actually puzzles me is that you claimed some utility in your role - not that it was amazing or anything - but I don't even see the utility with the way it was used. It's funny. It's a clue, sure, had the messages been received (granting truthfulness), but where's the utility, really? By your definition, since you said it.
I'm gonna try to be done for the night because I have work to do but moth, flame, etc.
But that does come down to play style in the end, I guess. What actually puzzles me is that you claimed some utility in your role - not that it was amazing or anything - but I don't even see the utility with the way it was used. It's funny. It's a clue, sure, had the messages been received (granting truthfulness), but where's the utility, really? By your definition, since you said it.
I'm gonna try to be done for the night because I have work to do but moth, flame, etc.
That's completely irrelevant. My reads are in the thread. If I ever got confirmed as Town or got flipped, you have that motive to look at my reads then and there.
I can understand Ouro's frustration regardless of alignment. Some of the points are getting very nitpicky (such as Sorian's drawn out discussion about how the hooker could be town while also turning around and saying 99% of the time they will be scum). That being said I think a lot of this is due to there simply too much tangled up in Ouro's web at this point. I know a couple of people have cooled on him (Crimson comes to mind), but I just don't see how we move forward without an Ouro lynch. It will just continue to be a discussion each day phase until he is lynched or the game ends.
This is the most reasonable thing I've read all fucking day
thanks for ignoring the rest of my observation there
it's okay monkey, we still love you. <3
even if i think your partner is a little weird and you're being defensive for some reason
I made my post at the same time you threw down that list. That said, I don't really have much more to add to this discussion.
It didn't make any sense. Pray tell what utility I should have been shooting for with my extra, extensive knowledge that I could have provided via my incredibly useful messaging ability
Should we have just messaged, "Sup dude! It's Ouro and Kitty! We're like totally Town and think you're super kawaii! That's how townie we are!"
Should we have just messaged, "Sup dude! It's Ouro and Kitty! We're like totally Town and think you're super kawaii! That's how townie we are!"
Everything you and KK and have said so far screams of only worrying about your own self-preservation and nothing else. Couple that with the fact that you're barely scum hunting and KK only comes in to drop vague reads lists, updates on his reads lists, and that's it feels like you're trying to skate by and hope your apparent 'back-up messaging plan' would've gotten you out of a bind.
I'm not saying you're supposed to have this 'ultra secret info because you're a Ninja Cop' thing going on but when your messages boil down into trying to convince someone to come to your aide when you would 'eventually have to claim' it does not look Townie at all. Reads, thoughts, anything like that would have been more helpful but instead it seems like your top priority was survival, not trying to help Town as a whole.
Bullshit. Messaging can't prove alignment. You know that, we know that. There's no guarantee we would be able to perform any sort of self-preservation using our role. We came up with an idea, all odds against it ever even working. It didn't work. It probably wouldn't work had we not been roleblocked. But it's better than just sending love notes to other players with nothing of substance.
Or wait should I have been providing reads via message instead of posting them in the thread? That's the towniest thing I've ever heard! Especially if we end up targeting scum! Brilliant!
Or wait should I have been providing reads via message instead of posting them in the thread? That's the towniest thing I've ever heard! Especially if we end up targeting scum! Brilliant!
That sure reads to me like you're goal was 'look, look! we're town, see??'.
Also there have been other people already telling you this but reads can change when someone flips, it happens. I'm not saying stick your reads in the messages and then sit around and do nothing but in the off chance that you got NKed wouldn't you have rather got your thoughts out to someone rather than just letting them die with you??
The key word there is "hopefully." And it's not about our preservation so much as being able to have an unofficial group of "likely Town."
And yeah that would be great if we actually did the work on reads during the night. I think you're giving that minuscule bit of information more credence than it deserves. I can't go back and resend the last two messages so it is what it is. And again if I send it to scum, there's literally no point to it.
Ouro's logic isn't wrong tho. It is possible with process of elimination to have used this to clear them once town has a good idea what scum PRs are there. That is how I would have used it.
If we had any proof whatsoever that he was telling the truth, I would think it was lean town. But we don't. And all of the other wrenches thrown into this makes it seem like a bad gamble to take by givin them another chance.
If we had any proof whatsoever that he was telling the truth, I would think it was lean town. But we don't. And all of the other wrenches thrown into this makes it seem like a bad gamble to take by givin them another chance.
I'll be honest - I'm kind of over this day phase. I've said about all that I feel is worth saying. My thoughts on the game state, today's lynch, and what it can reveal are out there. I'm fine with holding off on a turbo if that's what everyone wants - may be nice for those just joining us. I highly doubt I'll post much more though unless the topics being discussed change or the new players joining us catch up enough to discuss matters.
I feel the same, I don't want to turbo because I want to see the new player checkins and maybe Kark will do more than post a video.
Forgive me if I'm saying anything that's already been said
Thoughts on the "Hooker":
First of all, I'd like to note that I always found Dragonz and Vere a bit harsh in how they were playing, and I wasn't sure if that was just their personality, or what. I've never seen the role that they flipped, but with that hindsight, it makes me wonder if their attitude was them trying to get killed. Maybe it's not as suicidal of a role as Tanner, but it seems like Town benefits if you die before that "something" happens.
However, they weren't really acting all that suicidal, as far as I noticed. They did make defensive plays. It's a weird role to understand in terms of behavior, since we don't really do suicidal roles. But we do know that they were never visited/deactivated by the Hooker, or whatever it was that their role text implied.
So with that said, two possibilities - the Hooker never found them (implying they want to find them, I guess?), or the Hooker isn't in the game.
Virgin does imply Hooker, but it's never a guarantee. Mafia setups often have subtle misdirections made by omitting roles you'd expect. For example, having an "Assistant" to a Doctor (with Doctor powers), with no actual Doctor in the game.
Thoughts on the "Hooker":
First of all, I'd like to note that I always found Dragonz and Vere a bit harsh in how they were playing, and I wasn't sure if that was just their personality, or what. I've never seen the role that they flipped, but with that hindsight, it makes me wonder if their attitude was them trying to get killed. Maybe it's not as suicidal of a role as Tanner, but it seems like Town benefits if you die before that "something" happens.
However, they weren't really acting all that suicidal, as far as I noticed. They did make defensive plays. It's a weird role to understand in terms of behavior, since we don't really do suicidal roles. But we do know that they were never visited/deactivated by the Hooker, or whatever it was that their role text implied.
So with that said, two possibilities - the Hooker never found them (implying they want to find them, I guess?), or the Hooker isn't in the game.
Virgin does imply Hooker, but it's never a guarantee. Mafia setups often have subtle misdirections made by omitting roles you'd expect. For example, having an "Assistant" to a Doctor (with Doctor powers), with no actual Doctor in the game.
More to the point of today's discussion, I would generally expect that if you did an action and were roleblocked, you'd be notified that your action failed. To be fair, if I'm asking you to consider that Burb didn't put a Hooker in this game, then we must also consider that he doesn't like sending notices to people. But let's not psychoanalyze the moderator too much, as he's not voteable and this isn't the weirdest thing about Ouro's story.
hey_monkey
Banned
+3 with Natiko and Sorian but also it may be impossible for me to be quiet so there's that. Looking forward to the new perspectives.
make that a 4th
I've still got that Day 2 analysis to go over ( tomorrow, I promise ) but at this point I've said/commented on everything that's popped out at me.
I do believe there's a hooker. That's not really my issue here.
Oh you've got plenty of issues, I know.
The weirdest thing about Ourokitty's story is the targeting and the messaging of the letters.
1) The targets, part 1 - as it's already been pointed out, drfran and czarsketch are odd targets to choose. You had contentious interactions with one pair, and the other pair was barely active.
2) The targets, part 2 - Why would you choose different targets instead of trying to get back in touch with the same target? It would be a lot more useful to try for one secret behind-the-scenes relationship with another pair - not just shoot a bunch of random nonsense at people. I don't think that's hard to see.
3) The encoding - I gotta say it again, this doesn't make a lot of sense to do if you will never find out their alignment, and they don't know yours. I don't know if I'd go along with that even if I got the message. Even Ouro admits, the receiver will largely be confused by the message - so what does them going along with your code words help in determining trust?
4) The targets, part 3 - They wrote this seemingly with the intention that it wouldn't find its targets - but they were doing it before there was any talk of roleblockers or silencers. I guess it's fair to assume something will go sideways during the night phase, but Ouro also immediately reacted in a weird, knowing way when I first brought up that we got silenced (way back in #1679. TBH I still don't know what to make of that, but it was before they could have thought their letter failed (not enough time in the day for their first recipient to 'respond').
1) The targets, part 1 - as it's already been pointed out, drfran and czarsketch are odd targets to choose. You had contentious interactions with one pair, and the other pair was barely active.
2) The targets, part 2 - Why would you choose different targets instead of trying to get back in touch with the same target? It would be a lot more useful to try for one secret behind-the-scenes relationship with another pair - not just shoot a bunch of random nonsense at people. I don't think that's hard to see.
3) The encoding - I gotta say it again, this doesn't make a lot of sense to do if you will never find out their alignment, and they don't know yours. I don't know if I'd go along with that even if I got the message. Even Ouro admits, the receiver will largely be confused by the message - so what does them going along with your code words help in determining trust?
4) The targets, part 3 - They wrote this seemingly with the intention that it wouldn't find its targets - but they were doing it before there was any talk of roleblockers or silencers. I guess it's fair to assume something will go sideways during the night phase, but Ouro also immediately reacted in a weird, knowing way when I first brought up that we got silenced (way back in #1679. TBH I still don't know what to make of that, but it was before they could have thought their letter failed (not enough time in the day for their first recipient to 'respond').
What good is alive if you need them to communicate back to you, and they are at the bottom of the activity list?
I'm not sure what you mean with this one but both Star and fran/Worm verified that they received nothing before Kitty claimed completely. (Star may have been after, I'm trying to do this from memory).
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