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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED

Sykotik

Member
Any good deals going for a ~55"-60"? We really only watch Netflix/Hulu/YouTube/Twitch on our Roku 4, so it's mainly just increasing size from our 10 or so year old 42" Sony LCD.

Looking to spend around $1500 USD, though I'm down for compromising for cheaper alternatives as well.
 

Ashhong

Member
Any good deals going for a ~55"-60"? We really only watch Netflix/Hulu/YouTube/Twitch on our Roku 4, so it's mainly just increasing size from our 10 or so year old 42" Sony LCD.

Looking to spend around $1500 USD, though I'm down for compromising for cheaper alternatives as well.

Buydig might still have the LG B7A OLED 55" on sale for 1500

Otherwise the Sony X900E can be found for around 12-1300 or you can go cheaper and get the TCL P607 55". That's a high budget for a 55" imo
 

Sanctuary

Member
Huh, I thought the LG OLED were good for gaming? And poor black performance, what? Never heard of these issues for an OLED TV..

They don't have poor black performance, they have poor above black performance. Meaning the 1% - 10% range. It's not terrible, but it's also not that good either, and you'll often lose details within that range, or they will be harder to see than usual. The 2017 models improved this slightly above the 2016 models (which is what I have, and I still think the picture overall looks better than anything else right now).

I also don't know where the gaming complaints are coming from either. I've read that HDR "Game Mode" is dimmer than it should be, but I haven't found the input lag to be so much better that I would ever want to play in that mode over HDR "Standard" anyway (Game looks worse overall anyway for more reasons than just dimness), so I don't use it. The input lag was tested to be within the same range in all HDR modes anyway after they released the update last year.
 
Any good deals going for a ~55"-60"? We really only watch Netflix/Hulu/YouTube/Twitch on our Roku 4, so it's mainly just increasing size from our 10 or so year old 42" Sony LCD.

Looking to spend around $1500 USD, though I'm down for compromising for cheaper alternatives as well.

Would recommend getting a sony TV with the x1 extreme processor (xe93, xe90). Should be best for upscaling and semi optimal formats.
 

Stiler

Member
Any good deals going for a ~55"-60"? We really only watch Netflix/Hulu/YouTube/Twitch on our Roku 4, so it's mainly just increasing size from our 10 or so year old 42" Sony LCD.

Looking to spend around $1500 USD, though I'm down for compromising for cheaper alternatives as well.

TCL 55" P605/7 (same tv, different remotes).

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/tcl-55...dynamic-range-roku-tv/5878705.p?skuId=5878705

It's a roku tv that has FALD along with Dolby Vision support and low input lag for $599. That'll save you plenty of money that you can splurge elsewhere.

Best bang for the buck tv on the market right now.
 

Frillen

Member
I currently have a 55 inch TV, but I want to upgrade to a 65 one. I only sit about 6 feet away from the TV when playing video games. Is 65 going to be too big? Anyone with a 65 who sits that close?
 

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
I have an LG 43UJ634V and whilst the TV can be a little dark, HDR on PC just looks awful.

Is this what people meant by the creators update fucking up HDR? On my TV it just looks gray, bland and lifeless.

On PS4 Uncharted: Lost Legacy I just turned up in game brightness a little and it looked great but on PC its horrible.

HDR on the top, HDR turned off on the bottom

21247896_672504449612643_802822166_o.jpg


21247807_672504452945976_1868368946_o.jpg

HDR again on the top (2 pics), HDR off on the bottom:


Not great pics I know, but the second HDR is on you can see right away how lifeless it gets (Especially on that desktop image), it just looks lifeless and dull.
 

julrik

Member
That makes a high-end OLED sound pretty bad :)

FWIW though, there's very little of all that in the X900E. Just remember that no TV is perfect. This one has some clouding and it slows to a crawl if you're trying to navigate the menu while watching 4K HDR Netflix. Pretty sure overall IQ doesn't match the E6 either.
Well, it's not bad per se, but OLED has its issues too. They have addressed some of them in their 2017 sets, so if the XE90 disappoints, I'll probably opt for a C7.

I have not seen clouding mentioned as a problem with XE90, though. How severe is it? Clouding, as in dirty screen effect?

Huh, I thought the LG OLED were good for gaming? And poor black performance, what? Never heard of these issues for an OLED TV..
OLED is generally good for gaming, with its pixel refresh rate and low input lag, but it bugs me to no end that you can't calibrate white balance and colours in Game Mode. Baffling decision.

That's weird, The e6 is generally considered to have great motion performance and since it's an oled the blacks should be superb.
The motion is far from perfect and Sony's motion is widely considered as better. Although OLED has instant pixel refresh rate, it suffers from judder and the motion controls cause plenty of artifacts.

The blacks are of course superb, but I'm talking about near-black performance, which is an entirely different matter.
 
trying to Pair the PDP PS4 remote with my 55C7T oled but having no luck So far

anyone able to offer any Help

Also dos ultra deep mode effect input lag ?

and whats the Newsest input Lag testing Kit ?
 

ACH1LL3US

Member
Well, it's not bad per se, but OLED has its issues too. They have addressed some of them in their 2017 sets, so if the XE90 disappoints, I'll probably opt for a C7.

I have not seen clouding mentioned as a problem with XE90, though. How severe is it? Clouding, as in dirty screen effect?


OLED is generally good for gaming, with its pixel refresh rate and low input lag, but it bugs me to no end that you can't calibrate white balance and colours in Game Mode. Baffling decision.


The motion is far from perfect and Sony's motion is widely considered as better. Although OLED has instant pixel refresh rate, it suffers from judder and the motion controls cause plenty of artifacts.

The blacks are of course superb, but I'm talking about near-black performance, which is an entirely different matter.

I have the Oled C7, you can put it in PC mode and use any of the ISF modes and calibrate it correctly: 6500k, correct color gamut etc. all with 21.3ms of lag.

I do love the Sony x900e and I would have gone with the 49 inch one for gaming BUT the lag is way higher then the C7 as the Sony is at 31-34ms depending on the resolution sent to it and to me that is noticable lag.

Honestly I still feel the C7 has way too much lag, comparing to the new LG 32ud99 ips 4k monitor I just got which according to my Leo Bodnar has 11ms of lag. Playing on the oled C7 I am 1-3 k/d ratio in battlefield 4 and on the lg monitor I am normally 4-1 k/d ratio. I basically suck at gaming on the oled so going up another 10ms with the Sony x900e was a nogo for me sadly.
 

MazeHaze

Banned
I have an LG 43UJ634V and whilst the TV can be a little dark, HDR on PC just looks awful.

Is this what people meant by the creators update fucking up HDR? On my TV it just looks gray, bland and lifeless.

On PS4 Uncharted: Lost Legacy I just turned up in game brightness a little and it looked great but on PC its horrible.

HDR on the top, HDR turned off on the bottom



HDR again on the top (2 pics), HDR off on the bottom:



Not great pics I know, but the second HDR is on you can see right away how lifeless it gets (Especially on that desktop image), it just looks lifeless and dull.

I mean, your Desktop isn't HDR, youre turning HDR on when feeding your TV SDR content, it's gonna look bad. You have to run an actual HDR game.
 

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
I mean, your Desktop isn't HDR, youre turning HDR on when feeding your TV SDR content, it's gonna look bad. You have to run an actual HDR game.

Fair point, so it should run fine when in game? Just I'd heard about the creators update fucking things up, and then with the desktop looking bland like that I just assumed that was causing it
 

julrik

Member
I have the Oled C7, you can put it in PC mode and use any of the ISF modes and calibrate it correctly: 6500k, correct color gamut etc. all with 21.3ms of lag.

I do love the Sony x900e and I would have gone with the 49 inch one for gaming BUT the lag is way higher then the C7 as the Sony is at 31-34ms depending on the resolution sent to it and to me that is noticable lag.

Honestly I still feel the C7 has way too much lag, comparing to the new LG 32ud99 ips 4k monitor I just got which according to my Leo Bodnar has 11ms of lag. Playing on the oled C7 I am 1-3 k/d ratio in battlefield 4 and on the lg monitor I am normally 4-1 k/d ratio. I basically suck at gaming on the oled so going up another 10ms with the Sony x900e was a nogo for me sadly.
Yeah, I am aware, which is why I will buy the 55" C7 if the 65" X900E disappoints. The input lag on the Sony doesn't really concern me, though - it's a couple of ms lower than my E6.

PS: I sent you a PM a while back. I'd appreciate if you took the time to reply. Thanks.
 

e90Mark

Member
Does anybody have recommendations for cheap wall mounts? I don't need a full motion one for my B7 but I also don't want to be hassled if I want to switch cables and whatnot. So as slim as possible while also being movable? The mount for the B7 are towards the bottom too so I don't know if I need one with shorter arms or if I'll be ok with just moving the arms higher

Check to see if LG has made a wall mount for the 2017 OLEDs. Those will be about as slim as you can get since they are bespoke, and they aren't too expensive. (Less than $100)
 

Kambing

Member
I have the Oled C7, you can put it in PC mode and use any of the ISF modes and calibrate it correctly: 6500k, correct color gamut etc. all with 21.3ms of lag.

I do love the Sony x900e and I would have gone with the 49 inch one for gaming BUT the lag is way higher then the C7 as the Sony is at 31-34ms depending on the resolution sent to it and to me that is noticable lag.

Honestly I still feel the C7 has way too much lag, comparing to the new LG 32ud99 ips 4k monitor I just got which according to my Leo Bodnar has 11ms of lag. Playing on the oled C7 I am 1-3 k/d ratio in battlefield 4 and on the lg monitor I am normally 4-1 k/d ratio. I basically suck at gaming on the oled so going up another 10ms with the Sony x900e was a nogo for me sadly.

How are you liking the LG 32 inch? I am tempted by it because the 27 inch HDR monitors were delayed...
 

Sykotik

Member



Thanks for the replies guys, I've spent my morning mulling over these suggestions.

We're considering going up to a 65", as well. How is the TCL 65" S405? It's $700 at the local Wal-Mart. Apart from it's better features, is the quality of the P607 that much better to take a hit on the size?

Obviously the p607 has HDR10 and Dolby Vision, which is great at that price. But, the vast majority of the content we consume most likely won't have HDR, and the most gaming we do on the TV is through a Raspberry Pi.
 

Ashhong

Member
Check to see if LG has made a wall mount for the 2017 OLEDs. Those will be about as slim as you can get since they are bespoke, and they aren't too expensive. (Less than $100)

I'm talking cheap like 20$ from Amazon haha. I looked online and it seems the low mounting point can indeed be an issue. Slim isn't too important actually, a couple inches is no biggie.

The issue is I think I need one that you can adjust left and right so that I can center it, but those seem to require those long bars that you attach to the tv. The ones that attach a plate or an X looking thing don't seem to be able to be adjusted..
 

ACH1LL3US

Member
How are you liking the LG 32 inch? I am tempted by it because the 27 inch HDR monitors were delayed...


Its horrible IMHO. Some of the worst IPS glow I have ever seen, worse then the Apple OG cinema 27 display I have.

The AG filter on the LG blows too and I did remove it and it helped with clarity and percieved contrast.

Having been using the C7 oled then going to the LG monitor, the only thing better on it was the super low lag compared to the oled c7. The blur on the LG 32ud99 was significantly worse then any monitor I have used in the last few years. I would stay far away from it if you ask me,$1000 for it is a ripoff.
 
Well, it's not bad per se, but OLED has its issues too. They have addressed some of them in their 2017 sets, so if the XE90 disappoints, I'll probably opt for a C7.

I have not seen clouding mentioned as a problem with XE90, though. How severe is it? Clouding, as in dirty screen effect?
.

Barely noticeable when watching content, but on black loading screens and the like it does stick out. Not DSE, I mean the backlight clouding. I haven't noticed DSE when watching content.

Motion is fantastic, and HDR has been completely hassle-free. The Expert color preset is also hassle-free and gorgeous.

Just consider overall picture quality won't be up to E6 levels. I understand the game mode thing being super annoying though.


Perfectly fine distance for a 65 inch if you ask me. You'll see lots of detail!
 

Flyinmunky

Member
Wish we had a dedicated Projector thread. I know TVs will always be the most common choice but there are lots of people who game on projectors these days or are interested in getting a projector and not sure where to start.
 

julrik

Member
Barely noticeable when watching content, but on black loading screens and the like it does stick out. Not DSE, I mean the backlight clouding. I haven't noticed DSE when watching content.

Motion is fantastic, and HDR has been completely hassle-free. The Expert color preset is also hassle-free and gorgeous.

Just consider overall picture quality won't be up to E6 levels. I understand the game mode thing being super annoying though.
Ah, haloing around bright objects against a black background? That's to be expected and will be a caveat I can live with, as it rarely shows with regular content.

Happy to hear that the motion is fantastic, as I find the motion on E6 to be sub-par.

Will be very interesting to try out a 65" as well - I've never had a TV bigger than 55".

Thanks for your replies.
 

Ashhong

Member
Ah, haloing around bright objects against a black background? That's to be expected and will be a caveat I can live with, as it rarely shows with regular content.

Happy to hear that the motion is fantastic, as I find the motion on E6 to be sub-par.

Will be very interesting to try out a 65" as well - I've never had a TV bigger than 55".

Thanks for your replies.

Curious to know what's wrong with the motion? You said earlier the Sony is known to handle it much better, but rtings has the E6 as higher than the Sony, though not by much.
 

Kambing

Member
Its horrible IMHO. Some of the worst IPS glow I have ever seen, worse then the Apple OG cinema 27 display I have.

The AG filter on the LG blows too and I did remove it and it helped with clarity and percieved contrast.

Having been using the C7 oled then going to the LG monitor, the only thing better on it was the super low lag compared to the oled c7. The blur on the LG 32ud99 was significantly worse then any monitor I have used in the last few years. I would stay far away from it if you ask me,$1000 for it is a ripoff.

Wow cheers for the heads up mate -- I too have a C7, so will stay away from it. Really hoping we get some OLED monitors in the 30 inch range again, like Dell had earlier this year.
 

Stiler

Member
I have an LG 43UJ634V and whilst the TV can be a little dark, HDR on PC just looks awful.

Is this what people meant by the creators update fucking up HDR? On my TV it just looks gray, bland and lifeless.

On PS4 Uncharted: Lost Legacy I just turned up in game brightness a little and it looked great but on PC its horrible.

HDR on the top, HDR turned off on the bottom



HDR again on the top (2 pics), HDR off on the bottom:



Not great pics I know, but the second HDR is on you can see right away how lifeless it gets (Especially on that desktop image), it just looks lifeless and dull.


Yes, this is how HDR is on the pc and it sucks.

The windows update made it so that when you have HDR turned on in windows (in windows display settings) it turns HDR on, even on your desktop.

In order for HDR to not blow your eyes out by making the desktop super-bright (IE since many desktop/webpages are pure white) they then artificially "darken" the desktop which makes it look really dull and washed out , as your pics show.

For some stupid reason windows didn't think it'd be smart to do HDR like most tv's do it, HDR = off UNTIL you play an HDR video or game.

So for now you should leave HDR turned off in windows until you plan to play an HDR game or such, that will make your desktop/webpages look normal.

Also thanks to the windows creator update nvidia's hdr is broken , has been for months now and they say they can't fix it until windows changes how HDR is handled, which thankfully they are reportedly doing in the new update (fall update).

You can still get HDR in some games, but you have to first figure out the loop holes you got to go through and settings via nvidia, drivers that work for it, etc. It's a huge headache, I basically gave up on trying to get Andromeda to work in HDR because of all of this.
 

Mrbob

Member
Yeah last night I updated my home theater pc and it turned on HDR by default...looked awful. Turned it off in the windows settings because I couldn't take the look. ISF setting without HDR is so much cleaner and sharper. HDR on PC sucks. Until it gets fixed I'll just go into PC mode with HDR off and one of the ISF settings on my C7.

That update irritated me because it changed a whole bunch of settings I had to go back and fix.
 

Stiler

Member
Thanks for the replies guys, I've spent my morning mulling over these suggestions.

We're considering going up to a 65", as well. How is the TCL 65" S405? It's $700 at the local Wal-Mart. Apart from it's better features, is the quality of the P607 that much better to take a hit on the size?

Obviously the p607 has HDR10 and Dolby Vision, which is great at that price. But, the vast majority of the content we consume most likely won't have HDR, and the most gaming we do on the TV is through a Raspberry Pi.

The 405 doesn't have FALD (full array local dimming, which means the leds turn off in zones so that black areas of the screen can be pure black and not highlighted) nor does it really get bright for HDR or anything.

I watch a lot of movies that are dark and things so FALD is important.

If you all watch movies or play games with a lot of dark scenes then it might be better going with the p605 for it's fald.

When it comes to streaming Netflix supports dolby vision which is what a lot of their original newer shows are coming out in, so if you watch netflix that will be a good way to see the shows on there.


Also of note, the audio from the tv (either one) isn't all that great, so you definitely want to hook it up to speakers or a good soundbar or something for audio.
 

Sykotik

Member
The 405 doesn't have FALD (full array local dimming, which means the leds turn off in zones so that black areas of the screen can be pure black and not highlighted) nor does it really get bright for HDR or anything.

I watch a lot of movies that are dark and things so FALD is important.

If you all watch movies or play games with a lot of dark scenes then it might be better going with the p605 for it's fald.

When it comes to streaming Netflix supports dolby vision which is what a lot of their original newer shows are coming out in, so if you watch netflix that will be a good way to see the shows on there.


Also of note, the audio from the tv (either one) isn't all that great, so you definitely want to hook it up to speakers or a good soundbar or something for audio.

Thanks a lot for your help.

I think we've decided on the p605. We'll have to drive a couple hours to get it, on Friday at the earliest. While a loss of 10" is a bummer, I think in the end we'll be happier with it. We use analog out on our TV currently for our audio, and the p605 seems to come with an adaptor we can use.

Thanks again, we're excited.
 

Stiler

Member
Thanks a lot for your help.

I think we've decided on the p605. We'll have to drive a couple hours to get it, on Friday at the earliest. While a loss of 10" is a bummer, I think in the end we'll be happier with it. We use analog out on our TV currently for our audio, and the p605 seems to come with an adaptor we can use.

Thanks again, we're excited.

Np, there's a thread on gaf for the tv that might be helpful to you here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1397451

If you have any questions or anything you can shoot me a pm or post in that thread for others that might be able to help you with it.

A few suggestions to make sure you do when you get it, update it and then go in and make sure local contrast is set to high (this is the FALD setting). Then go into expert settings (which has to be done via the roku app on your smartphone, not on the tv remote) and turn noise reduction to off.

Some base calibration settings you can try if you want to fiddle with the picture settings:
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/tcl/p-series-2017-p607/settings
 
FYI on the PC HDR stuff, it works like it should if you're willing to roll back to 378.92. Everything passed that is effed for hdr and you'll get exactly the experience in the pictures above.
 

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
Yes, this is how HDR is on the pc and it sucks.

The windows update made it so that when you have HDR turned on in windows (in windows display settings) it turns HDR on, even on your desktop.

In order for HDR to not blow your eyes out by making the desktop super-bright (IE since many desktop/webpages are pure white) they then artificially "darken" the desktop which makes it look really dull and washed out , as your pics show.

For some stupid reason windows didn't think it'd be smart to do HDR like most tv's do it, HDR = off UNTIL you play an HDR video or game.

So for now you should leave HDR turned off in windows until you plan to play an HDR game or such, that will make your desktop/webpages look normal.

Also thanks to the windows creator update nvidia's hdr is broken , has been for months now and they say they can't fix it until windows changes how HDR is handled, which thankfully they are reportedly doing in the new update (fall update).

You can still get HDR in some games, but you have to first figure out the loop holes you got to go through and settings via nvidia, drivers that work for it, etc. It's a huge headache, I basically gave up on trying to get Andromeda to work in HDR because of all of this.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully MS sort it out soon, since it'd be nice to have HDR on PC working properly. It's beautiful in Uncharted: TLL
 

julrik

Member
Curious to know what's wrong with the motion? You said earlier the Sony is known to handle it much better, but rtings has the E6 as higher than the Sony, though not by much.
Primarily the judder. Fiddling with the motion controls to counter it introduces artifacts.

I don't know how Rtings calculate their scores, but my guess is that the OLED's instant pixel response helps LG's score a lot. LG's motion processor is nothing to write home about, at least from my experience, while Sony's motion processors are regarded as great.
 

Frillen

Member
If I play a 2160p video file on my 1080p laptop, then hook the laptop to my 4k TV with an HDMI, will the TV show it in 1080p or 2160p?
 
Wish we had a dedicated Projector thread. I know TVs will always be the most common choice but there are lots of people who game on projectors these days or are interested in getting a projector and not sure where to start.

There are a fair few of us with projectors here - although I don't use mine for gaming at the moment, I did when I first got it.

AVSForum is great for projector info, and gaming needs are talked about there more than in the past. Projectors (like other HDTVs) are taking lag more seriously: my Epson has ~50ms of lag in its game mode-equivalent, while its successor has dropped that down to ~30ms.

As with most things like this, you start with your budget, and desired goals ("I have a dedicated room, and want a 10' picture" or "this is going in my great room with giant windows, will this even work?") You'll have to factor a few more variables into installation than a typical TV purchase, depending on your room.
 

RedAssedApe

Banned
Looks like the 55" x900e just go another price drop. Lowest I've seen at Amazon and Bestbuy at $1198. Maybe just a Labor Day sale though?
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Primarily the judder. Fiddling with the motion controls to counter it introduces artifacts.

I don't know how Rtings calculate their scores, but my guess is that the OLED's instant pixel response helps LG's score a lot. LG's motion processor is nothing to write home about, at least from my experience, while Sony's motion processors are regarded as great.

I found that putting D judder on the lowest setting one is enough to correct it enough that I don't notice it anymore without introducing any notable artifacts but maybe I'm not as sensitive to it.
 
I keep reading how android is horrible on the Sony TVs and it causes all sorts of issues. What if you use an external streamer like roku or Amazon fire tv? Will the android system still be an issue if you're not using it to stream?
 

Jigolo

Member
I keep reading how android is horrible on the Sony TVs and it causes all sorts of issues. What if you use an external streamer like roku or Amazon fire tv? Will the android system still be an issue if you're not using it to stream?

Android TV is the worst TV operating system. You can't just shove all of android into a TV like that and expect good things. I hate it when Google does this. Chromecast functionality built in is great but it isn't worth all the Android bullshit you have to deal with that it comes with.
No and there are ways to improve the OS speed and responsiveness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ZnPq06jjA

There should be absolutely NO need to do this. It's unacceptable. Sony TV's rock but Android TV is absolute shit.
 

Fox1304

Member
Well, in addition to the stuck white pixel that I had on the center of the screen, I now have a flashing bright white group of pixels at a corner of my OLED.
Called LG, they're asking for photos/videos and other infos. Let's hope it'll be taken care of.
 
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