You weren't by chance watching Daredevil on Netflix were you? I noticed bright white pixel blinking in the bottom right corner, only during that show. I assumed it was something from the HDR grading process that they forgot to remove.
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
I have an x800e and had an x930e and Android was crashing both at least once a week.
Yep, it's the show. It did the same on my KS8000.
ACH1LL3US
Member
INPUT LAG: Testing with the Leo Bodnar
Oled tv's have very little pixel response time ( .3ms ).
LED/LCD tv's have at best 10-12ms for the 100% transition from black to white which the Leo Bodnar uses to test.
The Leo Bodnar tests not only measure the time the tv takes to display the image but includes the pixel response.
Having done extensive testing this weekend with my Leo Bodnar and my Oled LG C7 and many other displays in my home ( Kuro Elite Plasma, IPS monitor, VA Monitor and QLED tv) I have discovered something....
C7 Oled : Shows 21.3ms on the middle bar, this includes .3ms of pixel response = total lag felt with controller is 21ms
Samsung Q7 Qled: Shows 20.2ms on the middle bar, this includes 8.1ms of pixel response time = total lag felt with controller as 12.1 ms with 8.1ms of motion blur or half a frame
Sony X900e : Shows 31.2ms on the middle bar, this includes 10.7ms pixel response time = total lag felt with controller 20.5ms with 10.7ms of motion blur ( just over half a frame ). This tv feels the same for lag exactly compared to the C7 oled!!
LG 32ud99 IPS HDR monitor: Shows 11.6ms on the middle bar, pixel response time is 7.3ms according to Playwares review = total lag felt with controller 4.3ms with 7.3ms of motion blur or almost half a frame
Samsung KS8500 (One of my favorite tvs to play games on) : Shows 23.1ms on the middle bar, pixel response time is 15.9ms = total lag felt with controller is 6.2ms with 15.9ms of motion blur ( almost a full frame ).
Pioneer Kuro Elite 8g pro1150: Shows 40.1ms for all three bars, unable ascertain pixel response/phosphor response time = feels response wise from controller about the same as the LG oled, appears plasma numbers with Leo Bodnar are significantly off in the tune of double, meaning 40ms on the tester is really closer to 20ms. I also tested the pro101 which is the 9g 1080p model and it showed 80ms even in pc mode or in game mode and felt the worst of all of my displays lag wise and like all 1080p kuro's had annoying dse
Couple things to take away from this:
1: Oled's instant pixel response is great but due to that the numbers we are getting from the Leo Bodnar are not apple to apple comparison to led/lcd tv's for input lag your going to feel.
2: Plasma still destroys all other displays except crt for motion, seriously this blew me away as it has been ages since I gamed on our Kuro and it was an eye opening experience, not even the 165hz asus rog monitor I had could come close to the motion clarity on the Kuro!!
I did this testing because I couldnt understand why the lag felt like so more on my C7 oled vs the KS8500 or the Qled I have. Turns out that those actually have less input lag you feel on the controller but do suffer from more motion blur. In order for the LG oled to feel like the Qled for input lag it would need to show about 12ms on the middle bar. I sure hope we get close to that with the 2018 models!
Caveat: I am super sensitive to input lag so please keep that in mind when you read all of this! You may not be bothered with input lag as everyone has different tolerances. I play games like SF3 Third Strike, MKX, Battlefield 4, Forza 6, Trackmania Turbo etc., all games that IMHO are sensitive to input lag changes going from one display to another.
To me input lag is my most disliked aspect of displays as playing games is all about how the game feels and lag ruins that feeling, we were really spoiled back in the day when using crt's! Ever since going to digital flat panel displays we have been fighting this input lag, I am glad makers are taking notice to it now and bringing it down, I am hoping 2018 brings it down even further!
Oled tv's have very little pixel response time ( .3ms ).
LED/LCD tv's have at best 10-12ms for the 100% transition from black to white which the Leo Bodnar uses to test.
The Leo Bodnar tests not only measure the time the tv takes to display the image but includes the pixel response.
Having done extensive testing this weekend with my Leo Bodnar and my Oled LG C7 and many other displays in my home ( Kuro Elite Plasma, IPS monitor, VA Monitor and QLED tv) I have discovered something....
C7 Oled : Shows 21.3ms on the middle bar, this includes .3ms of pixel response = total lag felt with controller is 21ms
Samsung Q7 Qled: Shows 20.2ms on the middle bar, this includes 8.1ms of pixel response time = total lag felt with controller as 12.1 ms with 8.1ms of motion blur or half a frame
Sony X900e : Shows 31.2ms on the middle bar, this includes 10.7ms pixel response time = total lag felt with controller 20.5ms with 10.7ms of motion blur ( just over half a frame ). This tv feels the same for lag exactly compared to the C7 oled!!
LG 32ud99 IPS HDR monitor: Shows 11.6ms on the middle bar, pixel response time is 7.3ms according to Playwares review = total lag felt with controller 4.3ms with 7.3ms of motion blur or almost half a frame
Samsung KS8500 (One of my favorite tvs to play games on) : Shows 23.1ms on the middle bar, pixel response time is 15.9ms = total lag felt with controller is 6.2ms with 15.9ms of motion blur ( almost a full frame ).
Pioneer Kuro Elite 8g pro1150: Shows 40.1ms for all three bars, unable ascertain pixel response/phosphor response time = feels response wise from controller about the same as the LG oled, appears plasma numbers with Leo Bodnar are significantly off in the tune of double, meaning 40ms on the tester is really closer to 20ms. I also tested the pro101 which is the 9g 1080p model and it showed 80ms even in pc mode or in game mode and felt the worst of all of my displays lag wise and like all 1080p kuro's had annoying dse
Couple things to take away from this:
1: Oled's instant pixel response is great but due to that the numbers we are getting from the Leo Bodnar are not apple to apple comparison to led/lcd tv's for input lag your going to feel.
2: Plasma still destroys all other displays except crt for motion, seriously this blew me away as it has been ages since I gamed on our Kuro and it was an eye opening experience, not even the 165hz asus rog monitor I had could come close to the motion clarity on the Kuro!!
I did this testing because I couldnt understand why the lag felt like so more on my C7 oled vs the KS8500 or the Qled I have. Turns out that those actually have less input lag you feel on the controller but do suffer from more motion blur. In order for the LG oled to feel like the Qled for input lag it would need to show about 12ms on the middle bar. I sure hope we get close to that with the 2018 models!
Caveat: I am super sensitive to input lag so please keep that in mind when you read all of this! You may not be bothered with input lag as everyone has different tolerances. I play games like SF3 Third Strike, MKX, Battlefield 4, Forza 6, Trackmania Turbo etc., all games that IMHO are sensitive to input lag changes going from one display to another.
To me input lag is my most disliked aspect of displays as playing games is all about how the game feels and lag ruins that feeling, we were really spoiled back in the day when using crt's! Ever since going to digital flat panel displays we have been fighting this input lag, I am glad makers are taking notice to it now and bringing it down, I am hoping 2018 brings it down even further!
I'm part relieved to see that the TV has no issue (except the old pixels I had) and the fact that I won't play the "will you replace the TV" game with LG.
Crazy thing though, I was wondering why it was sometimes present on black color and sometimes not, now I understand.
Cool study. I read an article the other day saying delays faster than 13ms arent even perceptible to humans. Even if LG improves improves their lag times, I would imagine the average Joe couldnt even tell the difference between 13ms and 21ms in delay.
ACH1LL3US
Member
Correct, the average user won't notice. There are some users like me that feel the difference though sadly.
There is a really cool study Microsoft did when creating the touchscreen on their portable devices, they found that even slight input delay could be seen/felt when using the stylus pen or finger on the display is moved around.
They show a video with different input lag times and you would be surprised how little lag it takes to make things feel/see off.
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Is it worth purchasing an uhd blu-ray player to watch movies? Is there a noticeable difference in picture quality compared to compressed 4k streaming? I'm looking into the Sony x800, it's on sale on Amazon.com for $218
Edit :I got a LG B6 tv
Edit :I got a LG B6 tv
Well, a shorter delay is always welcome (although I'm more than pleased with my B7 in that regards).
The problem I find, and it is similar to troubleshooting audio/video sync delays, is that every game has different input lag on it's own as well. I've been playing a fair amount of Everybody's Golf this weekend, and on the B7 it's relatively easy to hit the shot meter, or at least I can tell whether I was early or late with my timing. However, I was watching my son play Madden 18 this morning and he could barely every hit the kick meter timer so I took a couple of tries and I was WAY off on the timing. I don't know what the controller input lag is on Madden, but it felt much higher than EG.
ACH1LL3US
Member
Massive difference from 4k streaming and an UHD movie. You should be able to test a UHD player at Best Buy to see how it looks. Streaming just can't compare even to a blu ray disc imho.
Tarin02543
Member
Massive difference. You're talking 5mbit streaming and 100mbit UHD
ACH1LL3US
Member
This is true too, each game has its own logic, creating different lag times and of course the 30 or 60fps game has different lag times as-well.
Ultimately the Leo Bodnar is a great consistent tool to use but is not telling us what the true input delay is and of course each game is different and will have different lag times on top of the display lag.
I have to tell you that overall I would not imho say the C7 oled is free of feeling lag on it, it is much better then the prior LG oleds I have had but Samsung for tvs still is king for controller responsiveness! Obviously the picture quality is not on the level of the oled but my 49ks8500 looks super sharp and bright compared to my C7 oled AND the ks8500 feels a lot more responsive, it feels the same as the LG monitor! To me its a night and difference in feel going from the C7 and the ks8500 for lag.
ss_lemonade
Member
I watched Life of Pets the other month in 4k, then decided to check out the included 4k vudu code. Really big difference in quality, though I guess if I never saw the physical media version, it wouldn't bother me.
ACH1LL3US
Member
Good question. The more ping you have the more behind you are to someone that has less ping. I am not sure I would say input lag and ping would feel similar. With a high ping your just going to be behind other players and may also see jumping or jitter on the screen/characters if the ping or packet loss is bad.
PadPoet
505 Games Ltd
INPUT LAG: Testing with the Leo Bodnar
Oled tv's have very little pixel response time ( .3ms ).
LED/LCD tv's have at best 10-12ms for the 100% transition from black to white which the Leo Bodnar uses to test.
The Leo Bodnar tests not only measure the time the tv takes to display the image but includes the pixel response.
Having done extensive testing this weekend with my Leo Bodnar and my Oled LG C7 and many other displays in my home ( Kuro Elite Plasma, IPS monitor, VA Monitor and QLED tv) I have discovered something....
C7 Oled : Shows 21.3ms on the middle bar, this includes .3ms of pixel response = total lag felt with controller is 21ms
Samsung Q7 Qled: Shows 20.2ms on the middle bar, this includes 8.1ms of pixel response time = total lag felt with controller as 12.1 ms with 8.1ms of motion blur or half a frame
Sony X900e : Shows 31.2ms on the middle bar, this includes 10.7ms pixel response time = total lag felt with controller 20.5ms with 10.7ms of motion blur ( just over half a frame ). This tv feels the same for lag exactly compared to the C7 oled!!
LG 32ud99 IPS HDR monitor: Shows 11.6ms on the middle bar, pixel response time is 7.3ms according to Playwares review = total lag felt with controller 4.3ms with 7.3ms of motion blur or almost half a frame
Samsung KS8500 (One of my favorite tvs to play games on) : Shows 23.1ms on the middle bar, pixel response time is 15.9ms = total lag felt with controller is 6.2ms with 15.9ms of motion blur ( almost a full frame ).
Pioneer Kuro Elite 8g pro1150: Shows 40.1ms for all three bars, unable ascertain pixel response/phosphor response time = feels response wise from controller about the same as the LG oled, appears plasma numbers with Leo Bodnar are significantly off in the tune of double, meaning 40ms on the tester is really closer to 20ms. I also tested the pro101 which is the 9g 1080p model and it showed 80ms even in pc mode or in game mode and felt the worst of all of my displays lag wise and like all 1080p kuro's had annoying dse
Couple things to take away from this:
1: Oled's instant pixel response is great but due to that the numbers we are getting from the Leo Bodnar are not apple to apple comparison to led/lcd tv's for input lag your going to feel.
2: Plasma still destroys all other displays except crt for motion, seriously this blew me away as it has been ages since I gamed on our Kuro and it was an eye opening experience, not even the 165hz asus rog monitor I had could come close to the motion clarity on the Kuro!!
I did this testing because I couldnt understand why the lag felt like so more on my C7 oled vs the KS8500 or the Qled I have. Turns out that those actually have less input lag you feel on the controller but do suffer from more motion blur. In order for the LG oled to feel like the Qled for input lag it would need to show about 12ms on the middle bar. I sure hope we get close to that with the 2018 models!
Caveat: I am super sensitive to input lag so please keep that in mind when you read all of this! You may not be bothered with input lag as everyone has different tolerances. I play games like SF3 Third Strike, MKX, Battlefield 4, Forza 6, Trackmania Turbo etc., all games that IMHO are sensitive to input lag changes going from one display to another.
To me input lag is my most disliked aspect of displays as playing games is all about how the game feels and lag ruins that feeling, we were really spoiled back in the day when using crt's! Ever since going to digital flat panel displays we have been fighting this input lag, I am glad makers are taking notice to it now and bringing it down, I am hoping 2018 brings it down even further!
A reason why I still keep my Sony KDL42W705B. Still rates as the best low lag 1080p TV on HDTVtest.co.uk input lag database
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag
I'm waiting for the 4K TV's to catch up to good numbers in terms of low input lag. Also someone who is very sensitive to input lag.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Yes. You'll randomly just be watching TV, and your TV will crash and reboot, or you'll get an error message that some Android component stopped working, or maybe you just hit a resource leak long enough that you can't even change inputs. Or your TV gets stuck using the internal speakers. Or your TV just randomly turns itself on and back off a few times a day. And this isn't a case of "Oh, it's just you." I don't use the Android functionality period outside of the Netflix app, and have done multiple factory restores, and others are experiencing the exact same issues. It's a terrible implementation of an, IMO, terrible OS for a TV.
Granted, I have the 930D, which had horrible hardware for a smart tv in 2016, and I'm stuck on Marshmallow with little hope for a newer version. I doubt it's much better, however.
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
I really appreciate your feedback. I'll check it out at the store
Marty-esque
Member
Fuck! I was planning on getting the x900e but this sounds like a nightmare.
GinoFelino
Member
I've had nothing but good experiences in my couple of weeks with the X900e
It's running on Android 7.0 now, so that might make a significant difference
Well when I'm playing league for example and my ping goes up to say, 100, I feel a delay between when I click and when I see my character move. So I figured that would be pretty similar to input lag. Thanks for the info tho. Hope I don't feel it on my new B7.
Speaking of my new tv, the damn thing is 30 miles away and it says estimated delivery is Thursday! God dammit
True, the B7/C7 is not completely free of input lag, but imho it's low enough that it should be perfectly fine (and likely unnoticeable) for the vast majority. My previous (and current) Samsung Plasma displays have input lag of 40-60ms, so ~20ms is still a huge improvement. And if I recall, one of Panny's last popular Plasmas (ST60?) had input lag of well over 80ms depending on the mode, and yet many here still used them.
Reducing input lag (at least in certain modes) should absolutely be something to strive for, but it isn't necessary a requirement to be at a certain level for many.
Undead Hero
Member
Do we know anything about the Xbox One X's UHD blu ray capabilities, or is that something where we'll just have to see when it comes out? I have one preordered, and I'm getting my first 4K set soon. Wondering if it will be enough.
My x900e has never crashed/rebooted. Android isn't always the speediest on this set, but it's not too bad. Disable Sony Shelf and make sure to kill apps when done with them, and it helps keep performance up. I'm still glad it has Android TV, because you get much better app support, and larger selection of decent apps, than a custom OS.
Hows kodi on it? Good enough or would you still need a separate box like the shield?
I've had no issues using Kodi on the TV. I have a Shield that I used on my previous main TV and Android on this TV has been good enough that I went ahead and put the Shield in a different room. The OS is noticeably slower to navigate than the Shield, but not enough to bother me too much. Kodi itself doesn't seem laggy to me.
It'll be enough to get you started.
If you plan on regularly watching UHD discs, you'd probably find it better to get a dedicated player.
Bill Rizer
Member
INPUT LAG: Testing with the Leo Bodnar
Oled tv's have very little pixel response time ( .3ms ).
LED/LCD tv's have at best 10-12ms for the 100% transition from black to white which the Leo Bodnar uses to test.
The Leo Bodnar tests not only measure the time the tv takes to display the image but includes the pixel response.
Having done extensive testing this weekend with my Leo Bodnar and my Oled LG C7 and many other displays in my home ( Kuro Elite Plasma, IPS monitor, VA Monitor and QLED tv) I have discovered something....
C7 Oled : Shows 21.3ms on the middle bar, this includes .3ms of pixel response = total lag felt with controller is 21ms
Samsung Q7 Qled: Shows 20.2ms on the middle bar, this includes 8.1ms of pixel response time = total lag felt with controller as 12.1 ms with 8.1ms of motion blur or half a frame
Sony X900e : Shows 31.2ms on the middle bar, this includes 10.7ms pixel response time = total lag felt with controller 20.5ms with 10.7ms of motion blur ( just over half a frame ). This tv feels the same for lag exactly compared to the C7 oled!!
LG 32ud99 IPS HDR monitor: Shows 11.6ms on the middle bar, pixel response time is 7.3ms according to Playwares review = total lag felt with controller 4.3ms with 7.3ms of motion blur or almost half a frame
Samsung KS8500 (One of my favorite tvs to play games on) : Shows 23.1ms on the middle bar, pixel response time is 15.9ms = total lag felt with controller is 6.2ms with 15.9ms of motion blur ( almost a full frame ).
Pioneer Kuro Elite 8g pro1150: Shows 40.1ms for all three bars, unable ascertain pixel response/phosphor response time = feels response wise from controller about the same as the LG oled, appears plasma numbers with Leo Bodnar are significantly off in the tune of double, meaning 40ms on the tester is really closer to 20ms. I also tested the pro101 which is the 9g 1080p model and it showed 80ms even in pc mode or in game mode and felt the worst of all of my displays lag wise and like all 1080p kuro's had annoying dse
Couple things to take away from this:
1: Oled's instant pixel response is great but due to that the numbers we are getting from the Leo Bodnar are not apple to apple comparison to led/lcd tv's for input lag your going to feel.
2: Plasma still destroys all other displays except crt for motion, seriously this blew me away as it has been ages since I gamed on our Kuro and it was an eye opening experience, not even the 165hz asus rog monitor I had could come close to the motion clarity on the Kuro!!
I did this testing because I couldnt understand why the lag felt like so more on my C7 oled vs the KS8500 or the Qled I have. Turns out that those actually have less input lag you feel on the controller but do suffer from more motion blur. In order for the LG oled to feel like the Qled for input lag it would need to show about 12ms on the middle bar. I sure hope we get close to that with the 2018 models!
Caveat: I am super sensitive to input lag so please keep that in mind when you read all of this! You may not be bothered with input lag as everyone has different tolerances. I play games like SF3 Third Strike, MKX, Battlefield 4, Forza 6, Trackmania Turbo etc., all games that IMHO are sensitive to input lag changes going from one display to another.
To me input lag is my most disliked aspect of displays as playing games is all about how the game feels and lag ruins that feeling, we were really spoiled back in the day when using crt's! Ever since going to digital flat panel displays we have been fighting this input lag, I am glad makers are taking notice to it now and bringing it down, I am hoping 2018 brings it down even further!
I don't get your reasoning to be honest. I'm also very sensitive to input lag having played the majority of my life on lagless analog crts.
First of all, I don't get why you separate pixel response.
Speaking of a display we experience input lag visually, not by tactile or audio feedback. Simplifying, when we input a command in a game, i.e. we press a button, the console sends a new picture to the display which reflects the fact we pressed a button. We (our brain) expects to see instantly the result of our action on the screen, if this picture take too time to be displayed we see it too late in respect to our physical action (the button press) and we "feel" input lag, feeling sort of disconnected from the action.
This is no different to what Leo Bodnar input lag tester does, it "looks" at the screen with the use of an optical sensor waiting for the picture generated with the "input" and like our brain it says if it is too late. Being a precision instrument, it can also quantify the wait between the input and the picture, and that is the lag.
Imho, if this lag is caused by processing or by pixel response so that the picture is updated late, makes no difference in lag perception, because what matters is what you see. Your brain uses your sight to make you feel lag or not. I'd be very interested to understand your experimentations on this.
On another matter, my experience with plasma has been quite different from yours. I got one of the latest Panasonics, which had a very low input lag when valued by crt comparison method (16ms), and not so low with Leo Bodnar tester (~45ms). I never trusted the 16ms value because the difference with a crt was night and day. By chance, I now have an lcd from last year from Panasonic which has the exact same rate of 45ms using Leo Bodnar tester and you know what? Well the lcd feels way way faster than the plasma, very snappy in comparison... while the expected result should have been the other way around I think? Anecdotally, my plasma runs on par with the WiiU gamepad, while the lcd is noticeably ahead of the WiiU gamepad, so I'd say it has at least 1 maybe 2 frame of advantage.
ACH1LL3US
Member
The thought behind what I am saying is pixel response numbers are when it fully changes, your eyes see the picture moving, it is just blurred. If an image has basically no pixel response time like an Oled, everything is just the tv processing the image. The led/lcd is partially showing the image albeit blurred.
What it comes down to is this, oled has white, red, blue and green pixels.
The leo bodnar is shooting a white bar onto the screen, the other 3 colored pixels are NOT being used. We do not know how much lag the tv takes to display all 4 pixels at once. Someday someone will verify that the way oled is displaying its image is slower then lcd/led with the leo bodnar.
Comparing a ks8500 to the C7 oled even though they have similar lag numbers with the leo bodnar, the ks8500 feels much more responsive over the oled. The ks8500 is displaying all three pixels with the leo bodnar so we know that is the true input lag for it.
As for the plasma, I can't comment on a panasonic one as their drive level (600hz) subfield driving etc is very different over the Kuro I have.
The only way to really know a more accurate way for lag of a display is to do what Playwares, pcmonitors and tftcentral do, Oscilloscope method.
Marty-esque
Member
That's good to here. I really want a tv with 120hz and the 49x900e seems to be lowest price for one. I would probably get the TCL p series if it had a 120hz. And sony is known for their motion handling.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
I really don't get it but when I download Gamersyde's only Assassin's Creed Origins 4K video and I try to watch it via USB stick or Plex/XPlay I get this error:
The video could not be loaded, either because the server or network failed or because the format is not supported.
Yet I keep hearing from friends and people here how amazing that video in 4K looks. What is the cause here? This video, the 4K one
http://gamersyde.com/news_gc_aco_direct_feed_videos-19430_en.html
But I have no problem watching other downloaded videos from Gamersyde. I've seen 4K videos of Horizon, U4 and so on.
The video could not be loaded, either because the server or network failed or because the format is not supported.
Yet I keep hearing from friends and people here how amazing that video in 4K looks. What is the cause here? This video, the 4K one
http://gamersyde.com/news_gc_aco_direct_feed_videos-19430_en.html
But I have no problem watching other downloaded videos from Gamersyde. I've seen 4K videos of Horizon, U4 and so on.
Great post, ACH1LL3US. Very interesting to see the X900 compared to the C7 here, considering what we talked about yesterday or the day before. Will you reconsider the 49" X900 now?
Either way, this makes me even more interested in the X900. Thanks for the info.
ACH1LL3US
Member
Yes! I would recommend for gaming the x900e over the C7 I have based on three things: input lag feels the same( having now tested it and not go by the numbers as I have explained above) it gets way brighter with better uniformity ( C7 oled has vertical banding that rears its ugly head every so often) and little worry of image retention on the Sony ( it does have a little according to rtings but I never saw any).
This is the order I would recommend to those wanting a tv soley for gaming:
1
Samsung MU, KS or Q series due to high brightness, lowest lag in pc mode with 4:4:4 and no worries of image retention2
Sony x900e , backlit full array for great uniformity which is great for games that pan left to right alot, good input lag, super bright with 4:4:43
C7/B7 oled, low lag ( not the lowest ) worries of image retention ( it can happen for sure ), instant pixel response, not as bright as the others, excellent anti glareAs for picture quality it would be C7/B7 significantly ahead then sony x900e then Samsung all imho.
psychotron
Member
Yes! I would recommend for gaming the x900e over the C7 I have based on three things: input lag feels the same( having now tested it and not go by the numbers as I have explained above) it gets way brighter with better uniformity ( C7 oled has vertical banding that rears its ugly head every so often) and little worry of image retention on the Sony ( it does have a little according to rtings but I never saw any).
This is the order I would recommend to those wanting a tv soley for gaming:
1
2
3
As for picture quality it would be C7/B7 significantly ahead then sony x900e then Samsung all imho.
Unfortunately I need to question the amazing uniformity on the 900e. I've had two now (third on the way) with noticeable uniformity issues. They both have had a vertical DSE line in the center of the screen, where on third person shooters looking at the sky, the line is coming out of their head. Also random dirty brownish patches. It's not always visible, especially on the lush tree areas of uncharted, or the dark games like The Surge. It's the ONLY thing making question returning them all and waiting for next year. Zelda: BOTW has been the absolute worst so far. I think the specific color pallet and big sky views just amplify everything. It's honestly been hard to play.
Full disclosure, I can't stand DSE. It's something that has bothered me since my Kuro 5020 and I'm incredibly disappointed this is an issue in 2017.
ACH1LL3US
Member
I can't stand dse either, one of the biggest fail points of the 1080p Kuros!
I saw GT Sport and Horizon Dawn on the 49x900e and there was no DSE at all.
What size do you have, 55? Generally smaller screens have better uniformity so the 55 could be worse then the 49 I used.
psychotron
Member
It's the 65". I didn't see much in Forza or Uncharted Last Light. It's just certain games really bring it out.
ACH1LL3US
Member
I find Forza 6 to really bring displays to their knees when it comes to dse or vertical banding. That game is my go to torture a display to see if it has issues, most do lol.
Only display I have used that had zero DSE and zero vertical or horizontal banding is a Sony Projector, the hw45. I could play Forza and any other game and there wqs zero dse or banding, it was incredible lol. Even low light greys looked perfect. If you can get a controlled light setup, that projector is tops for gaming from everything I have tried.
RedAssedApe
Banned
I had a Kuro 5020 FD and never noticed any DSE or other issues related to uniformity. Definitely nowhere near close to the TCL P series I just bought recently. Could just be that I wasn't looking for it as it was a hand me down TV and not new. Kind of wish that TV still worked so I could A and B it and feel better about the uniformity issues on this TCL like the darker corners and DSE when panning. heh
the smaller the panel the less uniformity issues you're going to see so i'm not surprised. congrats :]
the smaller the panel the less uniformity issues you're going to see so i'm not surprised. congrats :]
TheBoss1
Member
Probably so but my previous Sony W800C was a 50", and it's black uniformity was not good at all. When a movie/show/game transitioned using a black screen, I could see uneven black spots even at day time. I didn't notice it in any other situation though.
I just got a PVM 20l5 in basically new condition last week. It's capable of 240p, 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i native (no scaling at all!).
Seeing Wii U games on this thing makes me wish that they still made CRTs that could sync with every resolution natively. There's almost no aliasing and everything just pops and looks "right". And the color depth/accuracy of a CRT is really something special.
Playing the original Splatoon with literally zero lag just feels heavenly. It still breaks my heart that they don't make these types of displays anymore.
Seeing Wii U games on this thing makes me wish that they still made CRTs that could sync with every resolution natively. There's almost no aliasing and everything just pops and looks "right". And the color depth/accuracy of a CRT is really something special.
Playing the original Splatoon with literally zero lag just feels heavenly. It still breaks my heart that they don't make these types of displays anymore.
Beer Monkey
Member
Great deal going fast:
OLED55C7P for $1699 shipped
AVS says seller is legit, a storefront of iElectrica FWIW.
Price match on Black Friday to a lower price if it happens (and if your credit card has 90 day price protection).
Edit: Also have OLED65E7P for $2599, this one isn't a daily deal and has more quantity available and has been going on a while. This is with picture on glass and Atmos soundbar.
OLED55C7P for $1699 shipped
AVS says seller is legit, a storefront of iElectrica FWIW.
Price match on Black Friday to a lower price if it happens (and if your credit card has 90 day price protection).
Edit: Also have OLED65E7P for $2599, this one isn't a daily deal and has more quantity available and has been going on a while. This is with picture on glass and Atmos soundbar.
Marty-esque
Member
How are you liking the size? The 49inch is the one I've been eyeing. I definitely don't want to get it and then be underwhelmed. But it will be in a smaller bedroom. And the TV i have in there now is a 32inch.
I saw a couple posts saying this dealer was hit or miss, but yea they're still legit. BuyDig had the C7 at a similar price if you call in last week, they might still have it.
Speaking of, my B7 from BuyDig has been 50 miles away from me for 24 hours now
The tracking has updated every 4:44 since yesterday morning but it's not actually moving anywhere lol. I guess it's just being shuffled around since the delivery date isn't until Thursday. Hurts knowing it's so close.Beer Monkey
Member
Speaking of, my B7 from BuyDig has been 50 miles away from me for 24 hours now
I signed up for email deals on BuyDig. I'm inside my 90 day window for price matching up to $500 on Black Friday. The next time I can get a 65B7 for $2400 or less I'm pulling the trigger then hoping for at least $400 price match. I'm pretty confident that will happen.
The problem with some of their deals is that its over the phone only. I'm pretty sure they had the 65" for $2000 last week when I bought the 55", but I might be wrong. Here you go for a price match
http://www.ebuyusa.com/prodinfo.phtml?id=3320
TheBoss1
Member
The Most BEAUTIFUL Picture Quality I've Ever Seen!!! - Vincent Teoh from HDTVtest
I'm loving it. My room is also small so I sit close to the TV when gaming (about 3-4 feet). Plus I'm lucky to not have the dreaded Android TV issues like many, even though it was extremely sluggish on my previous TV.
In 2015 when I switched from a 32" Samsung to a 50" Sony, I thought the difference was too massive actually. After a few weeks I adjusted to the size and will never drop down in size for TV's again, except in this case where the 1" difference isn't noticeable at all.
I'm loving it. My room is also small so I sit close to the TV when gaming (about 3-4 feet). Plus I'm lucky to not have the dreaded Android TV issues like many, even though it was extremely sluggish on my previous TV.
In 2015 when I switched from a 32" Samsung to a 50" Sony, I thought the difference was too massive actually. After a few weeks I adjusted to the size and will never drop down in size for TV's again, except in this case where the 1" difference isn't noticeable at all.
Caayn
Member
Only a thousand bucks per inch.