contrast is really poor, as well as the backlight uniformity, no WCG, low peak brightness
I would pass.
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
contrast is really poor, as well as the backlight uniformity, no WCG, low peak brightness
I would pass.
Yes, in the last few months there have been a surge in reports of burn-in on the 2016 OLED models over on avsforum. As a result of all the concern, Rtings recently announced that they are going to be doing longterm burn-in tests. Should be interesting to see the results.
If you are going to play games on an OLED, I'd say that you have to be willing to take the risk of burn-in. It isn't to say that it affects everyone, as there are many people who play games without issue, but there is enough evidence out there now that you can't just write it off as a handful of defective sets.
Damn..I'm going to have to be careful with mine. I don't game too much but I watch a lot of Twitch, and they all have the damn overlays that stay static on the screen. Is the burn in permanent? As long as it goes away with time I don't care, even if it takes days
jellies_two
Member
Help.
Someone with everybodies golf AND an LG OLED please tell me the settings they use?
I can't get HDR to look better than non hdr and don't even know what part of the screen is supposed to show it off. The hdr icon shows in the corner of the LG but it looks worse: stops being cartoonish, and looks like it's through a greyish filter...
Someone with everybodies golf AND an LG OLED please tell me the settings they use?
I can't get HDR to look better than non hdr and don't even know what part of the screen is supposed to show it off. The hdr icon shows in the corner of the LG but it looks worse: stops being cartoonish, and looks like it's through a greyish filter...
I've put thousands of hours into gaming (and ticker based programming) on a plasma TV while frankly not being careful about it either and I wouldn't think twice about doing it on an OLED.
The pictures of image retention/burn in I've seen of LG OLEDs have basically only been on entirely gray or red screens, which aren't representative of normal use. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I suspect it doesn't generally show itself unless you are really trying to look for it.
If burn in isn't something you want to ever thing about, go ahead with an LED TV, but with nearly 6 years of plasma TV use, having grown up with CRT TVs, I just wouldn't worry about it.
The pictures of image retention/burn in I've seen of LG OLEDs have basically only been on entirely gray or red screens, which aren't representative of normal use. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I suspect it doesn't generally show itself unless you are really trying to look for it.
If burn in isn't something you want to ever thing about, go ahead with an LED TV, but with nearly 6 years of plasma TV use, having grown up with CRT TVs, I just wouldn't worry about it.
Yeah, the majority of people complaining on AVSForum are not gamers, they are people who watch CNN or other channels that have logos that get burned into the screen. Although I have seen a few people on there mention getting burn-in from Zelda's heart containers. The general consensus seems to be that static images in the red / yellow / orange part of the spectrum are most prone to causing burn-in.
It is hard to say for sure whether something is truly 'permanent'. But people have tried to get rid of their BI by running compensation cycles, playing videos of random static for 24 hours+, doing long sets of solid color slides, etc. without luck.
As a plasma owner, I have experienced "image retention" that lasts for months, despite running anti-IR multiple times, but eventually goes away. It may not technically be permanent burn-in, but it is kind of a useless distinction because I pretty much always have *some* game's HUD being retained by my screen. The fact that the current game's HUD eventually replaces the previous one's is not a lot of solace.
Solid-colored backgrounds can be pretty common depending on the type of content you frequent. Solid grey is pretty common in UIs and menus. Take Netflix or the Switch UI as examples. You also get a lot of solid colors if you are watching 2D animation. PC use is another big one. I have a grey background right now using the NeoGAF dark theme.
8 bit panel, no wide color, ips panel, no local dimming...this tv is an exercise in how low the bar can go for an hdr 'processing' tv
rtings needs to adjust their scoring methodology if this thing ends up at a 7.3...only 0.3 lower than the tcl p607
https://www.cnet.com/products/vpl-vw285es/preview/
Sony (true) 4K projector at $5K. Thrilled to see the price start to come down, but 1,500 lumens is a bit of a letdown. Still, very excited for the future of projectors.
Sony (true) 4K projector at $5K. Thrilled to see the price start to come down, but 1,500 lumens is a bit of a letdown. Still, very excited for the future of projectors.
Jigolo
Member
That's the majority of the forum. They nit pick everything and try to look for bad shit on their TVs and hyperbolize the issue. Sometimes they're useful for settings and other quirks about TVs but most of it is bitching.
If it makes you feel better my C7 has been rock solid. You gotta take some of that avs forum chatter with a grain of salt so to speak.
I finally set up my PC for 1080p 120 hz gaming on the c7. Picture quality takes a little hit but the response time more than makes up for it. I had not gone above 60hz on my PC before so this is my first voyage into 100mhz plus gaming and I like it.
I finally set up my PC for 1080p 120 hz gaming on the c7. Picture quality takes a little hit but the response time more than makes up for it. I had not gone above 60hz on my PC before so this is my first voyage into 100mhz plus gaming and I like it.
RedlineRonin
Member
I wouldn't paint AVS with too broad a brush. Lots of really good people in various threads there. Not necessarily disagreeing about the C/B7 owners thread, but that's hardly the entire forum.
Holy shit. What kinda gpu does that take? Something they use at NASA?
=)
Holy shit. What kinda gpu does that take? Something they use at NASA?
=)
Crowza
Member
Thanks Tokkun!
The deals I saw were for the 2016 LGs, which makes me pause.. Great price though, around the same price as the higher end 2017 LG LED for a 55" ($1,200).. Maybe I should save up some more money and get a 2017 OLED. I'll probably need one before the year is up though. My Samsung has dead lines and is dying..
OLED is sooo pretty though.. it's tempting.. even with burn in paranoia.
Although most of the burn-in complaints have been about 2016 sets, I wouldn't take that to mean that the 2017 sets are not affected as well. It may well be that there are more reports from 2016 sets because more of them have been sold since the 2017s have not been as heavily discounted yet.
I have also been thinking about whether to buy an OLED, and after years of dealing with IR / burn-in on a plasma, it's a sensitive issue to me, so I have been following it closely. Now I am mentally ticking off a list of games I have played a lot in the past few years that have red / yellow / orange static HUD elements that are more prone to burn-in - the heart containers in Zelda, the Estus flask in Souls games, the battle menu in Persona 5...
Really, I just want to play whatever game I want for however long I want without having this stress in the back of my mind impairing my enjoyment.
There is a 2017 LG OLED calibration thread on avsforum, which is a lot more helpful and isn't riddled with negativity. It's not the most organized, but you may find some pointers on how to set up the TV.
I ended up doing a quick calibration on the screen yesterday. I was pleasantly surprised how accurate the ISF dark room mode is out of the box. For SDR content I recommend setting color gamut to extended and color to 46. This was mentioned by one of the expert calibrators (D-Nice) on avsforum and it checks out with my eyes and meter.
I'll post some of my findings with the OSSC later today.
As a 2016 owner with a lot of time put in several games including Soulsborne and Botw I can just say: don't be afraid, no problems here after more than a year without taking care what is on screen. Otherwise play a lot after your purchase and if there are issues contact LG. I am suprised how good their current customer support is.
jondoyle1234
Member
Just ordered a Sony 65a1e !! Super excited
Should be here next week
Should be here next week
Post impressions!
I want Sony to start getting the price down on those short throw laser projectors. I think they're under $20K by this point lol
With the setup I'm planning I definitely wouldn't need short throw. $5K is the upper end of my "sweet spot" but I'd want it to be brighter than this...
Theonik
Member
For brighter I think you'll have to fork over either way.
Agreed...as of today. I'm hoping that by 2019, 3,000 lumens in a true 4K model = sub $5K
Melon Husk
Member
Epson's FullHD goes for $3k. If these things keep coming down in price they will totally wreak havoc in the TV market. Small footprint, just box on a table, wall attachments like a screen are optional. Stupid simple to resize according to ambient light.
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/9/6/16258856/epson-hd-laser-projector-ls100-home-cinema
I was about to say I hadn't even heard of these and saw the article is from yesterday. Damn and its at 4000 lumens as well for 3 grand? Damn that's actually a great deal. I'll wait for some reviews and all but that's actually incredibly tempting.
I have hundreds of hours of Twitch on my C6 full screen. I watch the biggest streamers who all have some sort of static image and I've seen any retention afterwards.
Not saying it's not an issue, but I feel like a lot of the info out there about IR is on an enthusiast forum.
My OLED light is at 85 75% of the time. It's at 100 the other quarter of time for HDR.
I had some time to go over the other modes with a Neo-Geo (very clear RGB output) on the C7 and here are the results:
- Line 3x: Works as expected. The prescale done by the scaler is only 3x, so the remainder is done by the TV. In my experience, despite integer scaling being logical, the upscale is interpolated by all displays I have tested so far (including PC monitors), and this TV is no exception. It would be great if there was some sort nearest neighbor scale available, but these displays are ultimately made for video content where interpolation may look more pleasant. It looks more than acceptable, don't get me wrong, but the higher line modes look better. Scanlines look good in this mode (no odd shaped lines resulting in a banding-like pattern).
- Line 4x: Works totally fine. Scalines look good and is a little clearer than line 3x.
- Line 5x (1920x1080, cropped): For some reason this mode did not work for me. I may be able to get it to work by changing some settings on the OSSC. Regardless, I imagine the same as the line 3x mode applies here. The TV would have to scale the image and it will not be the integer scale you're hoping for. In addition you will end up with a cropped image.
- Line 5x (1920x1200): Like the 1080p mode, this mode did not work.
- Line 5x (1600x1200): This is still my favorite mode. It looks really clean and looks good with scanlines, just like the other working modes. In addition, I tested this mode with the pixel shifter off and on with a grid pattern. Since the image is being scaled already, the pixel shifter did not further degrade the quality of the image. It did make the image slightly larger, however, resulting in a slight (very acceptable) crop on the sides of the image. No crop on the bottom since there is some room left.
I used the optimized 320x240 mode for the Neo-Geo. In addition, I tested a SNES with the optimized 256x240 mode with the 1200 line mode with the same results. One thing to note about the Neo-Geo is that it has an odd refresh rate of 59.18Hz. The TV handles this by duplication so there is a small stutter, same as with the Kuro. I'm just pointing this out for the sake of being complete - it is not bothersome to me. Also, this is not the case with the SNES. An easy way to test this is by just using the drop shadow test in the 240p test suite and see if the flickering shadow skips at all.
I also want to emphasize how good line5x (1600x1200) at 4:4:4 looks on the C7. It looks crystal clear and retains the sharpness I am looking for with 240p material. The scanlines in all working modes line up perfectly. I have tested scanlines on all modes with a white screen to see if there is any odd spacing, and there doesn't appear to be any. In addition, the OLED light can be increased to offset the loss in brightness when using scanlines. You will end up with a colorful image even with scanlines while retaining shadow detail. Outside of motion resolution this is a much better experience than the Kuro I used before.
So my B7 seems to have DSE on gray screens, but hard to see because the screen changes so quickly. At the risk of finding too many problems, what do you guys use to inspect a new panel? Like, do I throw on a gray JPG or something?
edit: woops didn't realize I posted in here last
edit: woops didn't realize I posted in here last
RedAssedApe
Banned
there are some dse blue sky youtube videos where you can prominently see dse if its bad on your tv
Couldn't really see it much on the blue sky, so I found a random grey screen video. Not sure if this is DSE or not?
https://imgur.com/a/ZmmIT
It's hard to capture, but it's definitely not uniform
The first couple of compensation cycles will improve your grays. I had a stripe down the right side really bad and it was gone in a couple weeks, not a trace.
Crowza
Member
I agree. I have to watch subtitles with everything due to a hearing impairment (although now I realized I should have been doing this for years, before I even had hearing problems). I was worried specifically about the yellow subtitle burn-in.
However, I now see where you can change Hulu from yellow to white subtitles which is encouraging. I haven't checked Netflix or Amazon yet, but I hope they have the same option. I don't mind retention so much.. But burn in scares me considering the dead pixels lines in my Samsung LED a few years after I bought it. I've lived with them for years (explaining it to visitors every time people come over) just waiting for OLED, HDR and 4k to become reasonable..
Now, my TV is having fits occasionally and it is starting to show its age, which means I might have to act quickly if it dies. webOS is a must for me.. I've loved that OS since it's original inception. Every time I psych myself up for a excellent LG LED 4k w/HDR at a great price, I head to the store and drool over OLED..
Thanks again for your insight...
They are no different than GAF...but their ultimate passion is the home theater experience instead of framerate/resolution wars
What's a compensation cycle? Is that the manual tool in the settings to get rid of burn in? I forgot about that, I'll try it thanks. I just worry about contacting the seller for an exchange if need be. Don't wanna run out of time or something. I'll try to wait a few weeks
Other than that this tv is a beauty! Love the motion controller too. Wish it was somehow a universal one I could use with my AndroidTV box
The best TV you can find will have some issues with uniformity. The compensation cycle runs automatically as needed based on usage, but you can trigger it manually.
pete_townshend
Banned
AVS Forum is more like RPGCodex
I know you're right. But when I compare to rtings it's just so different. The grey uniformity screen is pure grey. Hopefully the cycles fix it
GreenMonkey
Member
I tend to play just a couple of games at a time. For me right now that is Overwatch on xbone (75% of the time) and DS3 the rest (with a little NES via an Analogue NT mini mixed in). No issues seen since May. Temp IR isn't anywhere as often / noticeable as my old Pamny plasma (GT25) either.
I'm not running the OLED Light setting very high though, I think 65, except for HDR which autoselects 100 I think.
Eclectic Sk3ptic
Member
Listen to Weevilone and give it a week if you can afford to do so. All of my OLEDs have had issues like that out of the box, including my most recent 65" A1E. The latter had some serious dark streaks/botches on grey slides in addition to vertical banding which plagues 100% of OLED panels out there to varying degrees of severity. In any case, your set should improve within the first 50 hours or so. As far as gaming on it, try and keep OLED light at or below 40% to minimize IR to the point of it not being an issue*. That should give you anywhere between 120-135 nits on a 100% white window which is plenty even during the day.
*Current OLED panels are prone to the cumulative effects of uneven pixel wear, so I suppose it would be possible to cause burn-in with low brightness (OLED light) levels if you play the same game with yellow/orange/red static elements for hundreds of hours with little else in between.
Stiler
Member
Sorry I meant the X900E, not the 930, the 930 can get that bright and more.
It took a couple of weeks for my C6 to properly break in last year. The image quality kept improving with daily use and running the comp cycle after I turned it off each night. I don't notice any uniformity issues with regular viewing.
I also never ran the grey slides as I didn't want to drive myself insane like many do over on the AVS forums.
Night Hunter
Banned
So, what you're saying is, it looks properly calibrated...
TheBoss1
Member
RedlineRonin
Member
Kinda what I was thinking.
Calibrated TVs definitely can take a bit of getting used to but once you're used to watching a normalized picture, it's impossible to ever go back.
Totally get the comparison to a phone screen, but that's probably about equivalent to "vivid" or "standard" at best from a TV perspective. (not accounting for auto dimming/night modes)
Beer Monkey
Member
Thanks a LOT. I really appreciate it.
I can certainly live with 3X and 5X if that's what works on the set, and if 1200P works well scaled (no uneven geometry noticeable) that might be my favorite, we'll have to see. On the other hand somewhat soft images look good to me for CRT simulation sometimes, depending on the implementation, so maybe I'll go with 720p 3x. What I can't tolerate, at all is the geometry issues from poor scaling where some lines are noticeably thicker than others.
I'll probably go with 720p no matter what on the Analog NT Mini just because I don't like the look of the scanlines in 1080p on that system! There is opportunity for much improvement on how the NT Mini handles scanline processing, though that's greatly offset by the complete lack of lag and the ability to simulate over a dozen systems so far!
Anyhow, thanks for helping. One last question. For convenience sake, are options like pixel orbiting and OLED light level assignable on a per-input basis?
I think that's all I've got for questions until I find the right price on the right set, which hasn't happened this week.
JudgmentJay
Member
2016 C6 owner here... no burn-in/IR. I was thinking that playing Breath of the Wild/Persona 5 for extended periods of time (8+ hours) might cause some IR, but nope. Just use the pixel shifter when gaming and you should be good. I've stopped worrying about it altogether which is nice coming from a plasma background where I had to baby my panel.
Jigolo
Member
I had this epiphany. It's well documented in this thread or the old one I don't remember. Either way I hated the pissy yellow hue after what experts call "proper calibration" so I would follow the settings but make the white balance cooler. Then one day I decided to change it and now I can't go back. Not really sure what happened but if it's a more accurate picture then I guess that's good. Personally I'm a fan of tweeking the TV to your liking - I mean you did just spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on it so make the colors over saturated if you want or make it as dull looking as you want.