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Lack of 3rd party sales on NDS

A

Amused_To_Death

Member
I was waiting for June NPD sales data to see if popular kids titles such as Cars and Over the Hedge would make a dent in Nintendo's complete dominance of DS software but it didn't materialize. Cars GBA outsold Cars DS by a factor of 2:1. Will 3rd party publishers become discouraged if this trend continues? I already see several 3rd party titles being developed for the PSP but not the DS. EA for instance, had several PSP titles in its top 20, but its highest DS title was ranked 40 (Sims2)?!? Can the DS really compete (in the long term) in N.A. and PAL countries without 3rd party support? What will it take to reverse that trend?
 
Z

ZeoVGM

Banned
uh, you kind of forgot to mention that Cars sold better on DS than PSP, yet used the fact that the GBA one sold better than the DS one

obviously the GBA is still the kids handheld. they havent moved over to DS yet. but that's what they are currently/will end up moving to.
 
SantaC

SantaC

Member
Will 3rd party publishers become discouraged if this trend continues?
Click to expand...

Maybe 3rd parties should try and put more effort into their games? I would give Konami and Squeenix credit for pretty good 3rd party DS support so far, but other companies simply needs to make better software.
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
I could very well see it becoming a nightmare for third parties to remain profitable on nintendo platforms. Traditional games on the ds are bombing even in japan. Its a good thing I like nintendo franchises.
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
Fuzzy said:
GBA has 6 times the userbase as the DS in the US.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

If the DS can continue to sell at the pace it does, more third parties will flock to the platform, and more people will buy their games.

As it stands right now, it's mostly Nintendo fans who own DS'. And a lot of Nintendo fans only buy Nintendo games. When more casual people start buying DS', more traditionally casual games will sell.
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
Fuzzy said:
Not just making good games but marketing them as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Sega did a piss-poor job advertising Sonic Rush. And releasing it the same day as Mario Kart was a terrible decision.

And Castlevania didn't get much better from Konami. I don't recall seeing any ads for that(then again, I don't buy magazines anymore).

I somehow doubt Mega Man ZX will get the recognition it deserves either.
 
A

Arsenal

Member
Probationsmack said:
I could very well see it becoming a nightmare for third parties to remain profitable on nintendo platforms. Traditional games on the ds are bombing even in japan. Its a good thing I like nintendo franchises.
Click to expand...

I think it just shows that most 3rd party devs don't understand the handheld market very well yet. The demand if obviously there. Your average Joe has NO clue who develops their Animal Crossing or Brain Training games - they buy them because they like them, not because they are a first party game. There is no reason why a 3rd party can't have the same success on the DS with the right games.
 
Walter Matthau

Walter Matthau

Member
It's a combined lack of advertising and effort (from NA developers anyway). FF3, Megaman ZX, and Castlevania: Potrait of Ruin might turn out to be very successful in North America.
 
A

Amused_To_Death

Member
You guys are still missing the point, of the top 20 DS games sold to date, all but one I believe are made by Nintendo. Either the 3rd party publishers don't get it (not making good games) or the fans don't want any 3rd party games? On the other hand, only 1/3 of the top 20 PSP games are made by Sony.
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
Amused_To_Death said:
On the other hand, only 1/3 of the top 20 PSP games are made by Sony.
Click to expand...

there are plenty of games that arent made by sony but are associated with the playstation brand. Metal gear and tekken for instance, are very much "playstation franchises" to regular consumers.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Amused_To_Death said:
You guys are still missing the point, of the top 20 DS games sold to date, all but one I believe are made by Nintendo. Either the 3rd party publishers don't get it (not making good games) or the fans don't want any 3rd party games? On the other hand, only 1/3 of the top 20 PSP games are made by Sony.
Click to expand...

I dunno..maybe not that many high profile third party games on the DS?
 
J

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
Amused_To_Death said:
You guys are still missing the point, of the top 20 DS games sold to date, all but one I believe are made by Nintendo. Either the 3rd party publishers don't get it (not making good games) or the fans don't want any 3rd party games? On the other hand, only 1/3 of the top 20 PSP games are made by Sony.
Click to expand...
Are 3rd party sales alone that much more significantly higher on the PSP than they are on the DS this month?
 
A

Asylum

Member
Of those top 20 games how many of them were released this year?

All in all I dont think many 3rd parties are benefiting that greatly from releasing products on either console. PSP 3rd party sales were extremely strong this time last year but appear to have fizzled out over the last several months.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Do you have the list of top 20 games with sales for each platform? Cause saying the top 19 games on the DS are from Nintendo doesn't really tell us anything.
 
N

Netrunner2k2

Member
Oblivion said:
I dunno..maybe not that many high profile third party games on the DS?
Click to expand...


I think that is the biggest reason.

Another reason could be that they didn't release enough of a certain game that does have high demand. Wasn't Castlevania shipped in a rather limited quantity?

I wish publishers would release information on shipped numbers so we can compare if the game isn't selling or they are too inept to make more and put on shelves.
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Amused_To_Death said:
You guys are still missing the point, of the top 20 DS games sold to date, all but one I believe are made by Nintendo. Either the 3rd party publishers don't get it (not making good games) or the fans don't want any 3rd party games? On the other hand, only 1/3 of the top 20 PSP games are made by Sony.
Click to expand...
I know I'm missing some numbers but it's more like 6. :p

Spider-Man: The Movie 2 (launch)
Asphalt: Urban GT (launch)
Zoo Tycoon
Sonic Rush
The Sims 2
Madden NFL 2005 (launch)


And it's third parties making shit. When third parties do make good games they barely market them or don't ship enough (Castlevania).
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
Fuzzy said:
When third parties do make good games they barely market them or don't ship enough (Castlevania).
Click to expand...
Yeah its so stupid. They won't make enough copies of Dawn of Sorrow for the demand but they'll spend the money to make a sequel? Where's the logic in that?
 
A

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
Fuzzy said:
And it's third parties making shit. When third parties do make good games they barely market them or don't ship enough (Castlevania).
Click to expand...
If only Capcom had shipped more than seven copies.
 
Z

ZeoVGM

Banned
Amused_To_Death said:
You guys are still missing the point, of the top 20 DS games sold to date, all but one I believe are made by Nintendo. Either the 3rd party publishers don't get it (not making good games) or the fans don't want any 3rd party games? On the other hand, only 1/3 of the top 20 PSP games are made by Sony.
Click to expand...

it's 3rd parties making shit.

NOT TO MENTION, obviously only 1/3 of the top 20 PSP games are made by Sony but most of the top 20 DS games are by Nintendo. Nintendo makes MUCH more quality games that people are interested in than Sony

it goes both ways

ds will be fine :p
 
J

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
Jive Turkey said:
What? When was this announced?
Click to expand...
Announced? NoA is pratically pretending the GBA doesn't exist anymore, why would they need to announce anything?
 
A

Arsenal

Member
3rd parties on both platforms are really just trying to leverage their popular console franchises. They don't have to sell a ton of games to make a profit here so I doubt they will just stop all of the sudden. I do think we will see more devs start to specialize in portable games though and this will likely favor Nintendo because they know there is a market for these type of quirky games on the DS (plus the larger install base).
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
jj984jj said:
Announced? NoA is pratically pretending the GBA doesn't exist anymore, why would they need to announce anything?
Click to expand...
They're still publishing FFV and FFVI. :(
 
K

Kurosaki Ichigo

Member
JP 3rd party games for DS sales - BAD
JP 3rd party games for PSP sales - EVEN WORSE

NON-JP 3rd party games for DS sales - SHIT
NON-JP 3rd party games for PSP sales - NOT BAD BUT STILL BLEH

The point: 3rd parties are going to say SCREW YOU handheld market.


not that radical but my point stands, 3rd party sales on handheld are as bad as always (GBA) so look forward a console to see big 3rd party efforts as always (PS2)
 
M

Mrbob

Member
Western developers just don't care about portable gaming for the most part. PSP makes it easier to port PS2 games to the platform, so that helps with support.
 
S

starship

psycho_snake's and The Black Brad Pitt's B*TCH
Fuzzy said:
That's why I hate Capcom, they never ship enough Castlevania games. :(
Click to expand...
:lol :lol
I think its the fourth time someone mentions Capcom as the publisher of Castlevania :lol
 
davepoobond

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
Mrbob said:
Western developers just don't care about portable gaming for the most part. PSP makes it easier to port PS2 games to the platform, so that helps with support.
Click to expand...

THQ makes a ton of money off of portables.
 
A

Arsenal

Member
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
The point: 3rd parties are going to say SCREW YOU handheld market.
Click to expand...

The real question you have to ask here though is if they are making money. Handheld games only require a small fraction of the budget that console games require so they don't need huge sales to support the dev costs.
 
T

thestopsign

Member
I think the end of this year is going to buck the trend, atleast in Japan. Final Fantasy 3, Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin (If Capcom actually ships enough this time :D), Megaman ZX, and Children of Mana should lead the way for the US in 3rd Party sales, though I don't know if this is just wishful thinking or not. I think all of those should sell over 200,000, and ofcourse the normal EA shovelware should do well, or atleast much better than last year. Madden 2007 DS will do a lot better than last years version, as the casuals get onto the DS bandwagon. Need for Speed should do better than last years 100,000, maybe 150,000-175,000. I wouldn't be surprised if we see 5-6 3rd Party games above 200,000, 1-2 above 400,000, and one maybe over a million in Final Fantasy 3. I know it doesn't sound that impressive, but it is better than last year, a lot better.
 
D

donny2112

Member
See Kurosaki Ichigo's post and Fuzzy's post about their being 6 third-party games in top 20.

/thread

The U.S. has tons of crap DS games from third-parties. Franklin's Great Adventure, Elf Bowling 1&2, Snood 2, Shamu, etc. The Japanese publishers (again, see Kurosaki Ichigo's post) are the only ones who seem to really put an effort into DS games. Once Pokemon comes, the GBA should finally stop being the primary platform for U.S. kiddie/licensed games, so third-party sales may pick up then. It's no guarantee, though.

To put this thread another way, how much crap would the DS (or any Nintendo system for that matter) be in if it weren't for having exclusive rights to Nintendo published games?
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
I doubt the DS can fully replace the GBA until it reaches the magical 99 dollar figure.

What they need to do is drop it to 99 the same day Pokemon comes out.
 
C

Clever Pun

Member
SonicMegaDrive said:
I doubt the DS can fully replace the GBA until it reaches the magical 99 dollar figure.

What they need to do is drop it to 99 the same day Pokemon comes out.
Click to expand...

why? they'll sell anyways. what they should do is drop it to 99 once sales start to wane AFTER the pokemon push.
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
Clever Pun said:
why? they'll sell anyways. what they should do is drop it to 99 once sales start to wane AFTER the pokemon push.
Click to expand...

True...but it will be harder for little boys and girls to get their mom and dad to buy a 129 dollar system. 99 dollars....it sounds so much more affordable, doesn't it?
 
G

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
SonicMegaDrive said:
I doubt the DS can fully replace the GBA until it reaches the magical 99 dollar figure.

What they need to do is drop it to 99 the same day Pokemon comes out.
Click to expand...

It's a little early to tell, but I think the DS Lite + NSMB is beginning beginning to kill the GBA, look at June's NPD HW charts. The GBA was low compared to everything else (well except Xbox and GCN). I expect it to decline for the rest of the year. And I really don't see a price drop till long after Pokemon.

And I still can't believe the original DS is still regular price.
 
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