Apophis2036
Banned
Maybe because AMD has a SOC design that will make it cheaper & easier for them to add other chips to the SOC & they will work together with the CPU & GPU.
Thanks for the answer.
Maybe because AMD has a SOC design that will make it cheaper & easier for them to add other chips to the SOC & they will work together with the CPU & GPU.
If they can get games running on PS3 that look like MGS 4, God of War 3, Heavy Rain, GT 5, Uncharted 3, Beyond, Last of Us and Last Guardian then it is going to be truly frighting what we can expect on a machine that is 8-10 times more powerful.
I have a question of my own, why are Sony dumping the Cell after spending so much time and money on it ?, wouldn't boosting the clocks of the CPU and adding in the 2 - 4GB's of Ram along with the 1.8 tFLOP GPU to it not make it just as powerful rather than starting again with an AMD CPU ?.
Third parties are pretty much used to developing for it now and it would also ensure PS3 backward compatibility.
I keep hearing people argue that PS4 won't come out until 2014 because Sony wants a generational jump. Is there an expected breakthrough in GPUs or CPUs that would make that likely, or is it just random speculation?
I keep hearing people argue that PS4 won't come out until 2014 because Sony wants a generational jump. Is there an expected breakthrough in GPUs or CPUs that would make that likely, or is it just random speculation?
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that then. I believe the WiiU will be in a similar position to the Wii this gen. It will occasionally get ports of huge franchises, and they'll usually be handled by a "B team" developer hired by the publisher for the task, ie, the Call of Duty games on Wii.
Triple A developers are not going to be saddled with the responsibility of significantly altering their game engine to run on the WiiU, so the B Team is brought in to do a port.
But I guess I expect them to have about a $500-$550 budget on the console, and hoping they go as far as custom built 2-2.5GFLOPs GPU, with at least 4gb stacked memory, and the newest most recent custom architecture they can get in the thing for that price. CPU wise I dont know what to expect. I dont even know how Sandy bridge/ivy bridge tech compares to something like Xenon or Cell for example. Sometimes it sounds like there taking 2 steps forward and 1 step backwards with the CPU vs whats in the PS3. Based on what people are saying this only seems possible if they release in 2014.
I keep hearing people argue that PS4 won't come out until 2014 because Sony wants a generational jump. Is there an expected breakthrough in GPUs or CPUs that would make that likely, or is it just random speculation?
Remember, it will be coming out a year (at least) before the competition. If it can build a strong install base and show that "core" games sell on it, it would not be prudent for publishers to ignore the platform.
What do you think the odds are of that happening? I say not very good.
I keep hearing people argue that PS4 won't come out until 2014 because Sony wants a generational jump. Is there an expected breakthrough in GPUs or CPUs that would make that likely, or is it just random speculation?
Remember, it will be coming out a year (at least) before the competition. If it can build a strong install base and show that "core" games sell on it, it would not be prudent for publishers to ignore the platform.
You left out your theoretical retail pricing. Are you happy to pay US$500 for a console? Do you think (Using PS4 as our example) Sony would sell it at $500? Do you think they'd take a bit hit again like last time and say sell for $400, putting themselves even further into the red? Sony is in a tough position. They are a company that prides themselves on using top end tech, but they've bled so much money that they are in financial trouble.
Launching in 2014 is a mistake. Consoles sales are already down this year, and will be down further next year. Price cuts may counter-act some of this but this gen is definitely winding down. Also give Nintendo more than a year to themselves at your own peril.
If the only point in waiting is to be a little more powerful, then it is not worth it.
That's strictly not true. The cell can still do things conventional CPUs cannot achieve.
While very powerful at the time the cell is now a 6-7 year old CPU architecture and it really doesn't provide the level of performance that can be achieved with a more modern CPU.
.
Launching with to little memory would be a HUGE mistake, and would affect the longevity of the console. Just think if MS didnt up the 360 from 256mb to 512mb. This generation would of played out a lot differently as there would of been a huge disparity in RAM differences between the two consoles. PS3 would of almost had twice as much RAM. 360 would of needed a revision 3 years ago.
A price cut that goes below $199 could very easily counter act the sales decline long enough for PS4/720 to launch in Fall 2014.
Do you know what tends to affect the longevity of a console? Poor sales and low market-share leading to a nonviable platform.Launching with to little memory would be a HUGE mistake, and would affect the longevity of the console.
The next Xbox is definitely coming fall of 2013. That is practically confirmed at this point.
The question is what does Sony do? Launch at the same time, or wait another 6-12 months? I think it would be a mistake for Sony to launch in 2014.
Thanks for the answer.
Why is it definitely going to launch in fall of 2013? Before the only reason MS had to launching earlier was cause they thought Sony was going to. What if plans changed and Sony delayed the PS4? Xbox 360 is still selling great, and hasnt had a price drop in a long time.
There are two charts there showing large Y/Y declines in HW and SW specifically for the HD platforms...That in no way is far or representative of 360's performance, or even PS3's. All that data and declines is largely due to the Wii. Wii contributed huge amounts of revenue to the market between 2007-2010. I would like to see charts like that based solely on xbox 360's revenue over the years. Show me the declines then. There wont be declines, just increases.
I think that the 360 has a larger installed base overall and is still selling more even with larger HW declines plays a role. Although last year had LBP2, Killzone 3 and Infamous 2 in H1.Interestingly XBOX is falling more in terms of HW percentage YOY but PS3 Software is falling more rapidly YOY.
did PS3 launched quite a few FP Exclusives in First Half of 2011 in comparison to this year?
There are two charts there showing large Y/Y declines in HW and SW specifically for the HD platforms...
I think that the 360 has a larger installed base overall and is still selling more even with larger HW declines plays a role. Although last year had LBP2, Killzone 3 and Infamous 2 in H1.
Although it also had the PSN hack.
One of their main competitors is going to launch this year.
One of their main competitors is going to launch this year.I edited my post after I saw the two bottom charts, read it now. Comparing it to just 2011 isn't a fair representation for MS and 360. 2012 should be the 2nd or 3rd strongest year for MS and 360 since it released. This is still the golden years for xbox 360. They should be in no rush to launch a next gen console unless there main competitor is going to.
I'm not sure what price cut you're expecting, or what you expect it to do.I strongly feel that what Nintendo does has little affect on what MS or Sony does. Sony is there main competitor. IF Wii U was going to be on the market for more than 2 years by itself, than maybe it would start to affect MS. They have about a 2 year window where they can use 360 to compete against Wii U. Hell supposedly we wont even see games that are actually built from the ground up for the Wii U for two years. Supposedly none of its launch window titles are. Also 360 getting a price drop may cause a big change to your 2011 vs 2012 charts.
edit: also I wanted to be really clear that I'm not trying to say I think the consoles will launch in 2014 for sure. They still could launch in 2013, but imo its just as possible to even a little more possible that they will launch in Fall of 2014 in NA. I wouldnt bet on either. My point is a 2013 launch isn't a sure bet or a guarantee like a lot of people in thread are implying. I personally hope they due release there next gen consoles in 2014 for hardware reasons and we have plenty of awesome games coming up for PS3 in 2013.
Why is it definitely going to launch in fall of 2013? Is there some new info I dont know about? Before the only reason MS had to launching earlier was cause they thought Sony was going to. What if plans changed and Sony delayed the PS4? Xbox 360 is still selling great, and hasnt had a price drop in a long time.
I strongly feel that what Nintendo does has little affect on what MS or Sony does. Sony is there main competitor. IF Wii U was going to be on the market for more than 2 years by itself, than maybe it would start to affect MS. They have about a 2 year window where they can use 360 to compete against Wii U. Hell supposedly we wont even see games that are actually built from the ground up for the Wii U for two years. Supposedly none of its launch window titles are. Also 360 getting a price drop may cause a big change to your 2011 vs 2012 charts.
I think Wii U will be competing with PS360, in the same way that the 360 (and PS3) had to compete with the PS2 at the start of this gen.If Nintendo manages to start to give the Wii U good advertising starting at Tokyo Game Show, & then beyond that, & makes the launch price of the console very market friendly (say like, $300), then most people are going to pick up the Wii U & will ignore PS3/360, especially with Nintendo's 1st/2nd party selections plus 3rd party support coming on it.
I think Wii U will be competing with PS360, in the same way that the 360 (and PS3) had to compete with the PS2 at the start of this gen.
But even if sales were similar to those launches a two-year lead would allow Nintendo to ship 15-20M by holiday 2014 - not only that but cost reduction during that time might allow them to sell at a $200 pricepoint by then.
Microsoft and Sony would be stupid to allow that sort of lead.
One of their main competitors is going to launch this year.
I'm not sure what price cut you're expecting, or what you expect it to do.
They're already at a mass market price, and have been for years. They'll likely lower the Kinect bundle prices to compete with Wii U.
But at best they'll be around or slightly above CY2009 sales, but still far below 2010 and 2011 sales this year. With no cards to play next year to stem even further decline.
The mass market doesn't really care. There's a mass market model being sold for $200 or less. What they need is a Kinect SKU for $200, but I don't think they'll get there yet.I'm expecting a 360 model with a HDD at $199(or could be $249) when Sony drops there console to $199. Maybe in the fall when Sony releases there new PS3 model. That would create an xbox core model well under $199 for them. This should significantly increase sales for the holiday and the momentum should continue beyond March 2013/end of FY2012. oh and BTW $299 for the main model Xbox which includes a HDD is not a mass market price.
Microsoft's (and all the other companies) main concern at this point in a gen is software and the 360 is still doing great at generating software revenue. Considering what is coming up this fall, 2012 has a decent shot at beating 2011 for 360 software revenue at US retail.But at best they'll be around or slightly above CY2009 sales, but still far below 2010 and 2011 sales this year. With no cards to play next year to stem even further decline.
The mean price of the console isn't going to go below $199 with a price cut.
The mass market doesn't really care. There's a mass market model being sold for $200 or less. What they need is a Kinect SKU for $200, but I don't think they'll get there yet.
Define significantly. Are you saying they'll be up, flat or down Y/Y post-price cut? By how much and for how many months?
Why would that "momentum" carry through another full calendar year and a half into 2014?
Are you actually assuming the Wii U will have no impact on 360 sales, not only in the US but in the EU.
Sony will make a big, big mistake and release in fall 2014.
Sony won't make it that long.
Sony won't make it that long.
Software revenues could be up, I agree, with Halo et al.Microsoft's (and all the other companies) main concern at this point in a gen is software and the 360 is still doing great at generating software revenue. Considering what is coming up this fall, 2012 has a decent shot at beating 2011 for 360 software revenue at US retail.
If anyone needs to release a new console based on sales, it's Sony. Certainly no point in continuing to cut the price trying to sell more PS3 hardware when the software sales continue to drop. The issues in Europe make the US even more important right now and they can't afford to become an afterthought in the region.
That being said, I do think 720 ends up fall 2013, with the main reason being the new Gears of War game that's coming out next spring. Really odd time to release the game, ~18 months after the previous one, unless it's to get out of the way of something.
Sony will make a big, big mistake and release in fall 2014.
Kinect is what pushed the ASP up. Not HDDs. People are buying 4GB Kinect SKUs at $300. If they can put out a Kinect model for $200 then I can see it spurring sales.The mean price of the console being $289 shows that the mass market does care and that only a small portion of market, maybe only 11% buys the $199 model. By significantly I mean sales will be much more during the holiday than if they hadnt gave the price cut, and will close a large portion of the gap between 2011 and 2012 sales, but probably not all of it(maybe 50-75% of it?). Carrying some of that momentum over into 2013 by 3-4 months isnt half the year btw.
Microsoft's (and all the other companies) main concern at this point in a gen is software and the 360 is still doing great at generating software revenue. Considering what is coming up this fall, 2012 has a decent shot at beating 2011 for 360 software revenue at US retail.
If anyone needs to release a new console based on sales, it's Sony. Certainly no point in continuing to cut the price trying to sell more PS3 hardware when the software sales continue to drop. The issues in Europe make the US even more important right now and they can't afford to become an afterthought in the region.
That being said, I do think 720 ends up fall 2013, with the main reason being the new Gears of War game that's coming out next spring. Really odd time to release the game, ~18 months after the previous one, unless it's to get out of the way of something.
Sony will make a big, big mistake and release in fall 2014.
Uh, does your avatar rotate or did you change it in the 5 seconds when I refreshed the thread?
And if the Euro continues to sit around 95 Yen, you are absolutely correct.
That would be a shame.
And welcome back other bg avatar.
Kinect is what pushed the ASP up. Not HDDs. People are buying 4GB Kinect SKUs at $300. If they can put out a Kinect model for $200 then I can see it spurring sales.
Haha. Just changed it. But I'm not really buying into Tretton's PR. They are going to be as close to Xbox 3 as possible if not being a little ahead of it.
Pre-Kinect the Elite v. Arcade split relatively evenly. Post-Kinect I imagine there are far more Arcade units out in the wild.Ok maybe that true but I'm sure HDDs still contributed to it. Im sure they would drop the kinect bundle too if they dropped the HDD model to $199. They'll drop the kinect bundle to whatever they drop the HDD bundle to.
All this talk about WiiU makes me feel like we might really end up getting a half-step with the other two in terms of a jump.
HDDs create a price floor, especially due to the Thai floods.
It's why the PS3 XS with HDD isn't going to be $200 or less.
Inclusion of Kinect also create a price floor, presumably.
Ergo, if there is a price cut I imagine it will be $50. Unless they go for some more exotic pricepoints (that the PS3 appears to be going for $180, $230, $250).
XBOX 360 HDD with Kinect $350
XBOX 360 4GB with Kinect $250
XBOX 360 HDD $250
XBOX 360 4GB $150
And I don't see a $50 price cut spurring HW sales substantially at this stage of the cycle. And certainly not enough to sustain until 2014.
Well then what is there to expect? If Agni's philosophy is meme worthy than what is realistic?
Well then what is there to expect? If Agni's philosophy is meme worthy than what is realistic?1/2 step? lol if a 1.84 TFLOP GPU is a 1/2 step from RSX I would love to see what their full step was going to be.
Also to the bolded thats interesting. Where has that been suggested or rumored?
It seems like 179,229,269 are the magic numbers
He's reliable.
Well then what is there to expect? If Agni's philosophy is meme worthy than what is realistic?
Good chance of a modified 7970 "M" which is an over 2 teraflop gpu with a TDP of less than 100 watts!!!What are the chances of the GPU being 7970/some modified version of it?
Not only do we talk other consoles in the WiiU spec thread I was just posting about a shirt I had that ended up inspiring the ThunderMonkey character through chance.We (I) talked about the other consoles in the Wii U thread.
What are the chances of the GPU being 7970/some modified version of it?