-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: PS4K / Neo spec leak is genuine, dev kits on their way to devs
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
I'm not sure I understand.
I doubt it is at 28nm. I also doubt it is Polaris.
Somebody else stated that the new console is supposed to be smaller than the current one. They wouldn't be able to handle the TDP if they stayed at 28nm (even the current design wouldn't handle it).
If the game is held back by the original hardware then that simply leaves more room for improved frame-rates and better image quality.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Intel can currently charge whatever they want for their skylake quadcores (and anything above that) as amd does not have a single cpu for sale that is even remotely in the same performance range.
Once amd can compete again those retarded prices will no longer fly
It will probably be lower.
Not sure what the 2.5x perf per watt was compared to either. If Fury Nano then it's a much bigger improvement than vs 390x for example.
That would be a much bigger apu than the current one and it would require a beefier cooling system. It would cost more overall than doing the die shrink and using a Polaris gpu so no way will it be based on 28nm.
Eh, it should check out though. If that LinkedIn number is correct, then Polaris 10 should be about 230mm² which is only slightly bigger than Pitcairn at 212mm² for double the shader count. Given that theoretically 14FF allows over twice as many (I can't remember the exact figure) transistors for the same area and taking into account not every part of a chip scales that much, it more or less checks out. Also not everything gets doubled in Polaris 10 either.
So yeah, if the GPU portion ends up roughly the same size as the PS4's chip, we should end up with something that's not going to be bigger. No need to fiddle around with the amount of shaders/CU to get there.
I do agree with the last bit though. It's very possible that these shader counts are pure coincidence and don't mean this chip is a relative of AMD's new architectures. When you look at AMD's APUs, their IGPs usually lag a bit behind with the newest version of GCN. On the other hand, these designs must've overlapped at some point since they're supposedly launching in a similar time frame.
ShooterMcTavish
Banned
So glad I held out on playing bloodbourne and Witcher 3.
Bloodbourne probably won't be upgraded but I feel like the guys over at Cd projekt Red will jump on upgrading there baby right away, just seems that they love the game and want the best experience for players.
Bloodbourne probably won't be upgraded but I feel like the guys over at Cd projekt Red will jump on upgrading there baby right away, just seems that they love the game and want the best experience for players.
Yeah, I'm going with this too that Neo Apu is not a Polaris one, changing GPU architecture would generate a fck ton of problems with not only the hardware inside de PS4 but mostly with the software.
Locuza
Member
I'm also not quite sure.
Why do you not believe it's Polaris?
Only because of the 2,3 (Neo) vs. 2,5 (Polaris claim) difference?
Polaris is 4th gen GCN, or GCN 1.3. It has some enhancements over older GCN but is 100% compatible.
manny10032
Member
No uhdb player???
Oh the absolute irony.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Does anyone think we see these new iterative consoles revealed at E3? That doesn't make any sense to me and I think they need to get their own standalone show but then the talk of developers having to be ready to patch existing games come September?
This whole thing is bonkers lol
This whole thing is bonkers lol
Caio
Member
It's still a fixed hardware, and not thousands of possible combination like PCs...
Mr. Giggles
Member
Would like to know who is for and against tbh.
from devs I mean
Well now they have to target 2 different setups for their games, high setting for the NEO and mid for the OG PS4.
This!!, developers know theres a user base of what 50 million PS4?, and there'll be a marginally lower amount of these new Neo systems....so are devs actually going to bother wasting resources and time developing games to take advantage of the NEO, for a much smaller user base....id say no.
And to top it off i doubt any games this year will be programmed to take advantage of the NEO's hardware, more than likely be this time next year (at the earliest) until we see games that actually utilise this extra horsepower
mugurumakensei
Member
1.3 X 1.6 = 2.08 unless multiplication has changed.
this is mostly how I feel about it as well. I think devs will focus on the base PS4, make sure it runs well at upscaled 4k, and anyone running it on a neo at 1080p will get whatever free performance increases are there
Mihalis0013
Neo Member
This actually makes a lot of sense. You get a console cycle of ~6 years before the "next generation" which is roughly on par with where they like to be (they used to be ~5 yrs) but they have the chance to add in new features mid stream to go along with changes to technology (ie. 4k, 8k, 12k) or just buff where necessary.
For some reason I never looked at it like that until your post and I'm now somehow less annoyed. Thank you.
xaeroxcore
Banned
Agree with you. And that´s my point...Don´t you think is pretty fucked up that Infamous Second Son look almost a generational level ahead of lotta of multiplattform games released even 2 years later (Far Cry Primal, COD Black Ops 3, for example)?
The only thing that i see is kind of fair between all this PSK4 stuff is that they seem to be stating that OG PS4 is not going to be left behind...so looks like that we are having titles of the likes of God Of War 4 with incredible graphics anyway (despite those visuals would be at 30 fps, and with less effects here and there compared with the NEO edition).
do they also develop for the PC?
It sure is, but from people saying that the GPU is Titan quality, to others saying 970.
To now people thinking it's going to be twice as strong as a 960 due to the most misquoted Carmack quote of all time?
It's a freaking zoo in here.
mikefrails
Banned
Anyone know what these costs would be?
I'm not sure unpatched games would run any differently (they won't) but with a patch I think they could run better.
Bloodborne is already a mostly steady 30fps, it's issue lies in frame pacing.
I do think the slight CPU OC isn't enough to make real improvements in situations where the CPU is the bottleneck.
This news has to be the most exciting thing to me in the console space. I've always dreaded waiting all those years for a new machine. As a day one PS4 owner - I feel that for these near 3 years it has been completely justified since I have put so many hours into that machine - so have my kids (maybe even too much). I will get this day one and give the OG ps4 to my son so we can play online together.
I can't wait to see the box design and learn of more upgrades that haven't been mentioned (wifi, USB ports, etc.), hopefully.
If they keep this at $400 it's great and gives us folks who want the upgrades the ability to pay for them while OG players get to play the same games as they would've been even if the Neo didn't exist. At the same time it breathes new life into the console space.
This is my hobby - and fortunately I have the disposable income to drop on this. The money spent over 3 years is a drop in the bucket compared to the good times I've had playing with family/friends.
I only hope that Sony increase the amount of family share users from 2 to 3-5.
I can't wait to see the box design and learn of more upgrades that haven't been mentioned (wifi, USB ports, etc.), hopefully.
If they keep this at $400 it's great and gives us folks who want the upgrades the ability to pay for them while OG players get to play the same games as they would've been even if the Neo didn't exist. At the same time it breathes new life into the console space.
This is my hobby - and fortunately I have the disposable income to drop on this. The money spent over 3 years is a drop in the bucket compared to the good times I've had playing with family/friends.
I only hope that Sony increase the amount of family share users from 2 to 3-5.
Just send them another Playstation <3 developers and everything will be fine.
This is stupid. >250 pages of wild speculation in the PS4K thread and now this?
I was almost convinced, but no way I'm going to pay 400$ again for a PS4.2! This is neither fish nor meat as us Germans use to say. Good luck Sony, but this marks the end of my console focus career, as I'm not so happy with the output of games this gen anyway.
I was almost convinced, but no way I'm going to pay 400$ again for a PS4.2! This is neither fish nor meat as us Germans use to say. Good luck Sony, but this marks the end of my console focus career, as I'm not so happy with the output of games this gen anyway.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Time x Things To Do?
Lol yep
mugurumakensei
Member
Depends on what they try to do extra.
Assuming they work with a base PS4 version they make run well then scale up.If they just bump resolution and AF, nothing. If they bump framerate, they have to test for animation and collision detection glitches.
If they work from getting it working on PS4K at the highest fidelity then try to make it run on normal PS4, it'll be a nightmare.
demigod
Member
Didn't know it was that way, thanks.
Yet you're still not shying away from making that very same statement all the time in all the corresponding threads.
As we Germans also say: Es ist an der Zeit loszulassen und neue Pfade zu beschreiten.
Money grab plain and simple. The singular here makes me think Xbox One not happening. Sony are going to try and use the PS4 to push the 4k (hence the need for a Neo mode) which is exactly the kind of thing that drove devs to MS last time.
I would expect framerates unlocked games to perhaps show improvement. Perhaps infamous second son can hit a steady 60fps.
Aside from unlocked games though I agree, no improvements without patches.
Let me think this through.
Starting with the assumption that a CU is of a fixed number of shading units. You double the numbers of CUs of a GCN 1.1 GPU to get 2x the computational capability (and 2x the TDP).
Then we (naively) divide that by the 2.5x improvements in perf/watt. We are now on a TDP that is lower than the original GPU.
Actually, yeah. I can see that, it could actually be Polaris. The only thing that confuses me is the that it operates at a higher frequency, but that just could be the nature of the fabrication process.
It's a new SKU so even if it's the same code you still have to make sure it runs well in both specs and optimize it which take developer time and time = money. Also QA.
I'm also sure part of that reaction (if true ofc) is that people don't like change and would be happier just launching PC,XB1,PS4 and NX? versions instead of another slightly different PS4.5 version. Of course EA can just tell Sony to fuck themselves and launch the exact same thing for every game. It would be hilarious.
LOL
Edit: (Not related to my comment above)
What would the bump in costs of development be in terms of creating content for both the PS4 mode and the new Neo mode?
I shouldn't imagine they will jump up significantly, the only real (main) thing that will drive up costs will be the extra paid man hours for coding for the new GPU wouldn't it?
People forget with this stuff that PCs push through the tech diversity - theres still a cost from it however, so makes little sense to apply this to consoles.
This is why i don't think the difference is going to be big enough to justify buying a new machine. Devs are lazy as it is when it comes to optimisation, now you're throwing more optimization at them for 2 different spec'd systems. I just don't see them taking advantage of the "neo" much at all.