-MD-
Member
Yep.
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Yooka-Laylee |OT| Reptile Rolling in the 90s
- Thread starter Camjo-Z
- Start date
Yep.
Two Pikachus
Member
The thing is that W4's Rextro always made me feel I was in complete control. If I messed up, it was because I messed up. It was overlong and not particularly fun, but the requirement was relatively low and I never felt it was too punishing.
W5's Rextro does give you arguable control, but there's too much unpredictability in movement, not to mention a number of obstacles require a precise path with no margin for error. I think you can get hit maybe twice before the game becomes impossible to win. I don't mean to blame the game, this is because I am not good at this at all, but the length of the level, the high requirement, and the flappy mechanics all really work against it. Something half as long with one permissible death would be twice as fair while still remaining a challenge.
What ability? I have everything except for the sonar shield. It just was a really bland and boring boss fight, as was Rampo.
Salty Hippo
Member
It's because we're bad at the game mang. It's not because the timer is ridiculously tight requiring a near perfect run. It's not because the obstacles are badly designed. It's not because the sliding mechanics suck ass. It's not because the pattern is inconsistent which eliminates most of the possibility for memorizing and learning from them. It's not because you can't manually restart if you hit a wall once and ruin your run. It's not because the game doesn't refill your health after the times goes zero and you can go back to the beggining with 1 butterfly left and no possibility to recover because you already ate the butterflies that were around so you might as well kill yourself first.
It's a masterclass in game design. You just have to git gud.
No, the ramp-related stuff is garbage game design, and the sliding mechanics are terrible. And "oh just skip it" is a complete cop out. Knock off the "git gud" bullshit and acknowledge the glaring flaws in the game, for they are many.
Diddy Kong
Banned
edit - nvm
Alcotholic
Banned
Got it. I'll just get good.
Two Pikachus
Member
No one says the game is perfect, just that its positives outweigh the negatives. Tough challenges do not make the game bad. Putting them back in the oven would be an improvement, but a handful of unfair challenges just doesn't bring the entire game down to Jim Sterling territory.
Sonar Explosion. There are four ice blocks behind the boss in the wall it slides around you can explode to reveal torch/flamethrowers that can be lit that helps do added damage. I didn't have that ability when I fought it, so it was a pain to whittle it down fully with just my flame breath alone.
Good example of bad design right here.
The Rampos fight on World 1, you get hit by a log at the top and slide down hitting 3 more logs and lose 3 additional pieces of health.
How is getting penalized 4 times and losing 4 pieces of health for one mistake good design? Good design would be having you not lose health when sliding down against the logs. Lose one piece for getting hit by the log but when sliding down have them just beak without taking health. It is very simple and makes it far less frustrating.
The Rampos fight on World 1, you get hit by a log at the top and slide down hitting 3 more logs and lose 3 additional pieces of health.
How is getting penalized 4 times and losing 4 pieces of health for one mistake good design? Good design would be having you not lose health when sliding down against the logs. Lose one piece for getting hit by the log but when sliding down have them just beak without taking health. It is very simple and makes it far less frustrating.
Two Pikachus
Member
There is no defending that. Also powerup timers continuing to run during cutscenes and still being vulnerable to attack even when you can't move your character. This game has flaws.
The defense comes in when people call it a bad game. Because it isn't. It has design flaws and uneven difficulty but it is far from a bad game. Sonic 06 is a bad game. It's fundamentally broken. Enter the Matrix is a bad game. It's boring and commands often just don't work. Yooka-Laylee works when yo tell it to (minus the camera at times), the platforming is tight, and the rewards are satisfying. It's a damn fine addition to the genre.
Nocturnowl
Member
World 5 was pretty great, not getting the layout complaints from some reviews "it's so random!" they seem to say.
Not really? there's a central area that has numerous branch offs to the different islands, in general the concept is ocean islands...in space! of which they succeed at, the areas are close enough in general you can choose to just use the newly obtained flight to skip using the tubes if you so feel like it.
Solid set of challenges in this area as well and a great transformation, I only had to succumb to a guide for my very last collectable which was the ghost writer that tries to wallop you.
Almost feels like by the time the more negative reviews reached this point of the game they were simply determined to not like anything it did.
Not really? there's a central area that has numerous branch offs to the different islands, in general the concept is ocean islands...in space! of which they succeed at, the areas are close enough in general you can choose to just use the newly obtained flight to skip using the tubes if you so feel like it.
Solid set of challenges in this area as well and a great transformation, I only had to succumb to a guide for my very last collectable which was the ghost writer that tries to wallop you.
Almost feels like by the time the more negative reviews reached this point of the game they were simply determined to not like anything it did.
wvnative
Member
The camera angle was also horrible.
Nervous Sausage
Member
I would agree with that statement but I think the problem is somewhat mitigated by the butterflies that respawn at the bottom of the ramp throughout the fight, effectively allowing you to heal up multiple times in the battle. I beat it on the first try as it is so I don't know if they necessarily needed to make it even easier but yeah, it did seem to be a bit dodgy. As for the comments about the infamous slide section before world 5, I'd agree again that this one's definitely a misfire in that it's way too hard and unforgiving. It took me less than 5 runs luckily so it wasn't too bad but there was really no room for error at all and I can easily see it driving people mad.
Despite the few issues that pop up here and there with particular challenges and mini games either being too bullshit or janky (mine-cart sections need a restart option badly), for some reason they haven't too negatively affected my enjoyment and I can confidently say I'm enjoying it as much as I did the Banjo games when I replayed them a few years ago, maybe even more so now that I think about it. It captures the same perfect mix of exploration and light puzzles but with more platforming and less of the annoying backtracking that plagued Banjo Tooie, particulary with Mumbo Jumbo. Also the dialogue and music is spot on when it comes to nailing the feel of Banjo as far as I'm concerned. Even with a few nitpicks I don't think I've enjoyed a single player game this much (besides Breath of the Wild) in at least a few years. I just hope their next game manages to win more people over than this one.
Two Pikachus
Member
No, so you've gotta be defensive and dodge a lot. He follows the rule of threes, so pattern recognition will get you far.
DieNgamers
Member
100% agreed. I didn't fully complete most games of the N64 era because of optional hardcore stuff like this. Unbalanced? Yes. Bad design? Eeeeh, it's still fair. It's for people who like to punish themselves and power through the challenge. There's no need to get mad at the game.
I understand the "git gud" sentiment just as I understand people being offended by it. I'm on both sides, depending on the situation, haha. BUT I don't know why the only thing that counts as good design is a game leading you through any challenge unharmed. Sometimes you need to be knocked down so hard you are unable to stand up. I know, this is a "dated" concept in today's gaming...
I could almost see the sadistic grin on Playtonic's faces in that dark ice cave. So I concentrated and did it on my second try. Take that, developers! It's all good fun. <3
Question re secret treasure
Edit: Figured it out
I just enabled the secret treasure tonic and I'm standing near the Capital B statue in Hivory Tower near the beginning. I'm at a loss at what I should be looking for here as it's whistling and vibrating my controller. Where is it?
Edit: Figured it out
While I agree and love Yooka-Laylee dearly, there are elements that makes it inaccessible and frustrating to anyone but genre veterans. The camera being the most obvious. It's not necessarily worse than the old Spyro games or Ape Escape series, but even if someone could handle those, I would caution people on the difficulty in combination with the camera.
I saw Day9 play this the other day:
http://youtu.be/riToz2ErGrA
At 1:25 he discovers the first race in the first world and watching that gives you a good idea that the game handles things in the way games used to, when first learning to design objects interacting in a 3D world. In order to keep rolling in the race, you have to keep refilling your power bar by collecting butterflies. Notice how even missing a single one in one of the runs, means having to give up on the race, since there's no way of winning it then. And not only has he lost the race due to a single mistake, he can't even restart it right away, which he tries to at one point by running off the course.
It's made even more stressful by how difficult the single butterflies are to pick up, due to their small size. Making a character collide while rolling at high speed with such a small object, isn't easy and there's really no reason why such a pick-up wasn't made bigger. The very first butterfly pick up is also behind rocks so you almost can't see them, before you've passed them. So even before you get a feel for the race and the design it revolves around, the game is trying to thwart your progress.
And this is the first race in the first world.
It's very old fashioned design of the kind you often encountered in early 3D games. Whether you have the patience for something like that in the modern gaming world will vary from individual to individual. Personally I had no problems completing any of the challenges, but I could see it was making my friends wanting to throw the controller at the wall.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
I'm getting so inpatient waiting for the orchestrated soundtrack to play this game.
It's totally possible to recover after running out of stamina in the first race.
It depends on where it happes (take a look at the runs), but even assuming that it's possible everywhere, it feels extremely punishing to many because the pick-ups are small and spread out with a lot of distance between them. It's a little like how people find the arcade games or the minecart sections punishing. You can recover (after several hits in many of them) but the penalty for a single hit doesn't feel in porportion to how much you have to collect afterwards to do so.
The game has flaws no doubt, but the difficulty of some challenges isn't one of them. One of the best parts about these types of games is that they aren't afraid to have some sections that aren't baby easy despite what the cartoony graphics might suggest. When's the last time Mario ever gave you a serious run for your money outside of the super-hard final level?
And if saying "just skip it" is a cop out, why do they only require you to have 100 Pagies to beat the game? There isn't even some true 100% ending like in Banjo-Kazooie, getting all the Pagies just unlocks a cosmetic gag. It's literally designed that way for people who don't want to put up with the tough bits and just want to breeze through the game without much effort.
There's a reason Mario 3D World hides the only level with a little difficulty away behind the main game. It wants to be accessible to everyone.
Not being able to recover health was fine, but not being able to regain stamina in the final phase is quite annoying, those tracer missiles don't give any real window for recovery.
Huh, I'm surprised to see people complaining about the first race, I did it first time and didn't think it was particularly challenging. Even missed a couple of butterflies too.
In general I haven't found it as hard as people seem to be making out though. Did the second Kratos challenge on my second go. Getting top of the leaderboard on the first arcade game took about five tries and always seemed manageable (not going to defend that arcade game in general though, what a chore).
I feel like if you take the challenges at a steady pace you'll probably be fine. It's when you're trying to push yourself or try too hard that you'll struggle. Or at least that's my experience.
The game definitely has its problems and the game does tend to punish the player in a more old school way than most modern games would but I can't say I've found it particularly unfair (apart from each log causing damage on the first boss when you slide down the ramp, that's bullshit).
I don't think it's a great game. It's a 6 at best for me and I have no doubt that Mario Odyssey will stomp all over this later in the year and remind us all what a really great platformer truly is. But as a relaxing, brain-off collectathon that stimulates my nostalgia glands all way back to 1998 it's fine.
In general I haven't found it as hard as people seem to be making out though. Did the second Kratos challenge on my second go. Getting top of the leaderboard on the first arcade game took about five tries and always seemed manageable (not going to defend that arcade game in general though, what a chore).
I feel like if you take the challenges at a steady pace you'll probably be fine. It's when you're trying to push yourself or try too hard that you'll struggle. Or at least that's my experience.
The game definitely has its problems and the game does tend to punish the player in a more old school way than most modern games would but I can't say I've found it particularly unfair (apart from each log causing damage on the first boss when you slide down the ramp, that's bullshit).
I don't think it's a great game. It's a 6 at best for me and I have no doubt that Mario Odyssey will stomp all over this later in the year and remind us all what a really great platformer truly is. But as a relaxing, brain-off collectathon that stimulates my nostalgia glands all way back to 1998 it's fine.
Nocturnowl
Member
Capital B down, i think that fight highlighted some of the games issues with feedback when you hit things, i spent a good portion of the first segment unsure if i was doing anything, i was but it lacks "oomph" and strong recoil animations/sounds, something the previous N64 platformers had no issue with.
Otherwise a decent final boss, just like most parts of the game it feels a touch rough.
Time to go for the 100%
Otherwise a decent final boss, just like most parts of the game it feels a touch rough.
Time to go for the 100%
Right, that's the first two worlds emptied as much as I can, and I've found the moody marsh. I'm about 8 hours in and still really enjoying it, a hell of a lot actually.
I've only had a few annoyances so far, but they've not been anywhere big enough to tamper my enjoyment of the game.
I've only had a few annoyances so far, but they've not been anywhere big enough to tamper my enjoyment of the game.
Man, fuck the
boss fight. What terrible fucking game design, top to bottom. Add on performance issues when timing becomes REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT, jesus christ Playtonic.
This game so often goes from being so, so much fun to absolute bullshit 'my-first-videogame' game design. The inconsistency is driving me crazy. I want to love this game, and I do for periods of time but then something new comes along and makes me want to drive over my PS4. Videogame industry veterans my arse, there are some inexcusable design choices in this game, as well as a complete lack of other basic elements.
I.N.E.P.T.
This game so often goes from being so, so much fun to absolute bullshit 'my-first-videogame' game design. The inconsistency is driving me crazy. I want to love this game, and I do for periods of time but then something new comes along and makes me want to drive over my PS4. Videogame industry veterans my arse, there are some inexcusable design choices in this game, as well as a complete lack of other basic elements.
Now that I've beaten the game 100% it's time to go for the ultimate challenge: beating the game again... without using the roll or glide (or at least see how far I can get without needing to use them).
EDIT: Managed to do it in about 2 and a half hours... I'm no speedrunner, but I'd say that's about as good a time as I can be bothered to get! Also, I discovered that even though you can get around the hub without needing either move, the game puts up invisible walls to prevent you from actually doing it until you learn them from Trowzer.
EDIT: Managed to do it in about 2 and a half hours... I'm no speedrunner, but I'd say that's about as good a time as I can be bothered to get! Also, I discovered that even though you can get around the hub without needing either move, the game puts up invisible walls to prevent you from actually doing it until you learn them from Trowzer.
Just finished the game and these are my thoughts.
Game is a solid 7/10 for me.
Good
Captures the Banjo feel which is what they promised
Graphics are gorgeous
Good music with nice variations
Gameplay is varied throughout
Characters control smoothly for the most part
Distinct level themes
Bad
Performance issues. I played on PC with a GTX 1070 and had half a dozen occasions where the framerate would slow to a crawl for about 10 seconds
Kartos and Rextro mini-games felt poorly designed and controlled badly
A couple of the boss fights were plain bad
Quiz breaks were uninspired and felt lazy
For the most part I enjoyed my time with the game. Outside of a few performance issues the game ran well at a locked framerate, the dips I had seem to be an outlier on PC with not many issues reported.
It really captures the feel of Banjo for better and worse. Some design decisions left me scratching my head such as the Kartos sections and having two pagies dedicated to Rextro per level. I hope there is a reward for 100%ing the game as it seems weird there would be 500 extra Quillies and 45 Pagies that are useless. In BK the extras were used on items before the final boss fight but I couldn't see anything they were used for.
The game is challenging, at times in a good way but sadly sometimes it feels like sections were not play tested. Kartos challenges, boss battles and a few Pagies such as the infamous timed sliding challenge in Hivory Towers make me wonder if they were play tested.
Level design is varied and they feel dense despite the size. Landmarks are abundant which makes traversal simple plus the idea of expanding them gives the player an incentive to revisit them once they have earned more moves. I enjoyed the themes of the levels and they managed to feel fresh despite reusing some ideas from BK and BT.
Moveset felt boring and uninspired but there were a few surprises there and the move to a stamina meter was a nice change compared to consumables in the Banjo series.
Overall I enjoyed my time but am in no rush to 100% or replay the game. It is however a solid foundation and one that can easily be improved upon for a potential sequel.
7/10
Game is a solid 7/10 for me.
Good
Captures the Banjo feel which is what they promised
Graphics are gorgeous
Good music with nice variations
Gameplay is varied throughout
Characters control smoothly for the most part
Distinct level themes
Bad
Performance issues. I played on PC with a GTX 1070 and had half a dozen occasions where the framerate would slow to a crawl for about 10 seconds
Kartos and Rextro mini-games felt poorly designed and controlled badly
A couple of the boss fights were plain bad
Quiz breaks were uninspired and felt lazy
For the most part I enjoyed my time with the game. Outside of a few performance issues the game ran well at a locked framerate, the dips I had seem to be an outlier on PC with not many issues reported.
It really captures the feel of Banjo for better and worse. Some design decisions left me scratching my head such as the Kartos sections and having two pagies dedicated to Rextro per level. I hope there is a reward for 100%ing the game as it seems weird there would be 500 extra Quillies and 45 Pagies that are useless. In BK the extras were used on items before the final boss fight but I couldn't see anything they were used for.
The game is challenging, at times in a good way but sadly sometimes it feels like sections were not play tested. Kartos challenges, boss battles and a few Pagies such as the infamous timed sliding challenge in Hivory Towers make me wonder if they were play tested.
Level design is varied and they feel dense despite the size. Landmarks are abundant which makes traversal simple plus the idea of expanding them gives the player an incentive to revisit them once they have earned more moves. I enjoyed the themes of the levels and they managed to feel fresh despite reusing some ideas from BK and BT.
Moveset felt boring and uninspired but there were a few surprises there and the move to a stamina meter was a nice change compared to consumables in the Banjo series.
Overall I enjoyed my time but am in no rush to 100% or replay the game. It is however a solid foundation and one that can easily be improved upon for a potential sequel.
7/10
TropicanaTwista
Member
Overall enjoying, but damn growing the mushrooms or whatever it is in world 3 is flat out awful. Its like impossible to control them as it, then it adds spikes to destroy it and wind to push it away? Its just not fun
DieNgamers
Member
Lick them! I found out with the last "seed", haha.
TropicanaTwista
Member
Dude, you are a life saver! Have no idea why I didnt think of that. I rolled the bottom 2 and was trying to do the same for the top one.
Two Pikachus
Member
I was just thinking "how did he possibly have so much trouble with this?" Well if you're not leading them by the tongue it's nigh impossible haha
-MD-
Member
Huh, I tried that and it did nothing.
Top one took a few tries but I did it just by rolling them. I wanna go back and test it now as that was the only challenge I didn't enjoy much, I was doing it wrong though so that's on me.
DieNgamers
Member
I cursed myself through the first two at the bottom as well. At the top I though "this can't be right", haha.
A game can be bad and workable. A good example is the Transformer game on the NES, which I'd consider trash. In fact, looking at AVGN shows a lot of games that are functionally fine, yet horrible to play.
This is the opinion GameXplain overall had.
DieNgamers
Member
It's close!Kyleripman
Member
Wow Icymetric Palace is huge. Feels like a funhouse full of platforming puzzles, I love it.
Waddle Dee
Member
Could you tell me where that ghost writer is, by chance? I'm missing him, 9 quills, and 3 pagies (only missing one that isn't gotten from ghost writers or quills). I've flown all over this level (to the point where I hit a kill plane up in the sky, cause I was traveling so far up).
Is that area in world 5 with the porta potties worth anything? A couple quills but that's all I could find.
He's at the top of the golf course. As for the porta-potty area, did you talk to the guy in the toilet?
Lynd7
Member
Agreed. I am really enjoying it, but if I were to review it or give a more critical analysis I'd bring up a few things that the game has issues with sometimes.
For me though, I am really liking it anyway.
the ghostwriter is near the start of the Black Hole Golf Course. You have to fly up in there..
As for quills the final ones I got was
on top of the ship
Waddle Dee
Member
Thank you. I didn't know there was
someone in a porta pottie. I didn't see the little shaking effect.
in the "sewers"
you go into
you go into
Waddle Dee
Member
I'm pretty sure quills start making noises with the hunter tonic when there are 10 left in a world.
No, but the alert stopped when I picked up the quills. Or at least it seemed that way. Did I miss a secret?
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