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1990's Cartoon Survivor (Do-Over)

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Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
I think I first noticed the hey Arnold movement on page 9 when it was mentioned to be worse than X-Men and then clumped together with throaway shows. a few people (myself included) disagreed. From that the movement was born.
 

LordCanti

Member
To the guy that's been making graphs:

I'd love to know how many first time voters are showing up in support of The Simpsons when this is all said and done. I figured it was going to happen.
 

vikki

Member
Yes, but it wasn't for Reboot. It was just a prop. It was to prove a point that the voting could be manipulated to an extreme level. And to anger people who liked really popular shows like X-Men, Spongebob, Duck Tales, South Park, Courage, etc.

It's funny. I got one PM from you where you suggested that I kill courage to save DBZ. I guess there was no real way for you to know that I love both courage and DBZ and with many other shows available to kill there is no way I would throw either one of them under the bus.

Jado, I don't think you were the only one trying to manipulate votes behind the scenes. You might have been the best to hide your intentions, but definitely not the only one playing games. I received a couple suggestions, one of which I followed and the rest I ignored. I know in the beginning people decided to work together behind closed doors, I assume to kill off a lot of the garbage shows that had no chance at making far, but also to devise ways to kill some of the more popular shows that could pose a threat in the later rounds.
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
Whether you are attempting to Save: Batman or Save: the Simpsons
You must still Kill: Arnold

There is no way any of you are hoping for Arnold to be the #2 (or even the #1) show by accident just because it had less overall kills and didn't need as many saves.

Don't let AniHawk casually manipulate you any further with this save Arnold campaign he's had going on since many many rounds ago. It's worked up to this point, but we all know it's not the #2 and certainly not the #1 show on the list.
It's getting killed, don't worry.
Jado said:
Yes, but it wasn't for Reboot. It was just a prop. It was to prove a point that the voting could be manipulated to an extreme level. And to anger people who liked really popular shows like X-Men, Spongebob, Duck Tales, South Park, Courage, etc.

The goal was always to get Reboot to quietly slip to 3rd by rationally convincing people that voting a certain way was in their interests. No alliances, no hard instructions to kill this and save that. For example, I suggested one poster to change his throwaway save (Batman) to Reboot if he really wanted to kill Spongebob (and double down on kills). The best was convincing people who wanted Reboot dead, and voted to kill it, to change their votes to something else because "Reboot had plenty of kills already" and here are reasons and stats why voting like this will save your show from that second elimination spot. I also checked voting patterns from all previous rounds to see who best to contact for any little way that could help.

Another tactic was diverting saves away from a show I wanted to see killed. e.g. SpongeBob is fine, but I see you mentioned liking Tiny Toons in round X and its racking up kills *shows real but misleading stats* so consider throwing your save at it. Just a lot of little things like this. It worked and got thanked a lot for appearing to be on everyone's side. Sorry for bragging, but it was hilarious and fun. Reboot lasted 4 rounds longer than it should have and almost went on to another undeserved round taking down another big favorite in the process. I feel proud of that, although I would've been happier if that eleventh hour alliance had sacrificed DBZ instead and rallied behind Courage in order to kill Reboot.

I don't know what secret deals went down to keep Hey Arnold around (edit: apparently none), but I do know that the changes in voting rules have really helped keep it alive longer. The Arnold haters would've had enough double kill votes to get rid of it long ago.
Something was going on, but I don't know about deals. Also, I just realized you never asked me to vote a certain way. I don't know what to make of that.
 

AniHawk

Member
Whether you are attempting to Save: Batman or Save: the Simpsons
You must still Kill: Arnold

There is no way any of you are hoping for Arnold to be the #2 (or even the #1) show by accident just because it had less overall kills and didn't need as many saves.

Don't let AniHawk casually manipulate you any further with this save Arnold campaign he's had going on since many many rounds ago. It's worked up to this point, but we all know it's not the #2 and certainly not the #1 show on the list.

arnold is a top 3 show. no more.
 

Jado

Banned
It's funny. I got one PM from you where you suggested that I kill courage to save DBZ. I guess there was no real way for you to know that I love both courage and DBZ and with many other shows available to kill there is no way I would throw either one of them under the bus.

Jado, I don't think you were the only one trying to manipulate votes behind the scenes. You might have been the best to hide your intentions, but definitely not the only one playing games. I received a couple suggestions, one of which I followed and the rest I ignored. I know in the beginning people decided to work together behind closed doors, I assume to kill off a lot of the garbage shows that had no chance at making far, but also to devise ways to kill some of the more popular shows that could pose a threat in the later rounds.

I'm aware. I was kinda following the thread before I joined the discussion and saw some really obvious alliances. Also figured some groups formed truces to keep their favorites in it as long as possible.

As for the risk of cold-calling suggestions, I deliberately didn't PM you for a while because I didn't know your voting intentions besides "loves DBZ" and "interested in UFOs" (unrelated, was reading the general UFO thread one day!). I tried as much as possible to avoid contacting anyone who wasn't useful, but got the occasional PM "backfire" response; where the person would mention they didn't like Reboot as much as show X or preferred Y > X and would rather not vote a certain way. No sense in pushing it, so just ignored 'em and moved on to the next person.
 

LordCanti

Member
There weren't really any deals until people started getting pulled in from other threads. That forced alliances to save shows that really needed saving. Arnold got to #3 because a lot of people like it but also because of apathy. I was surprised at how apathetic I ultimately was about what show was going to make it to the #3 spot, but once we got to the top 10, it really felt like there were two shows with a shot at #1 and that the position of the other shows within the top 10 didn't particularly matter. Had we pushed for PPG, PPG probably would have made it, but since neither had a shot at #2 or #1, it wasn't worth the effort.
 
There weren't really any deals until people started getting pulled in from other threads.

Eh. People are still pulled in from other threads.

I changed my votes 2 or 3 times based on PMs from Jado. Made some PMs myself in the final round for ReBoot to finally get it out when it was that vs Courage.
 

Jado

Banned
Also, I just realized you never asked me to vote a certain way. I don't know what to make of that.

See above. You were probably completely set on killing Reboot, so no point. I had some people on a don't bother/trust list.

I only pulled people from other threads in one round. It had limited success because the threads were kinda old. I got tired of the whole thing and didn't go through with the bribery plan. I was gonna try to get maybe 30-40 people to alter the votes for the rest of the competition.
 

LordCanti

Member
Eh. People are still pulled in from other threads.

I changed my votes 2 or 3 times based on PMs from Jado. Made some PMs myself in the final round for ReBoot to finally get it out when it was that vs Courage.

To be more specific, any "deals" or alliances that existed before the PM'ing started were all in the open. Anyone could have had input on them, suggested alliances of their own, etc. Once it went to PM, the thread got worse for quite a few people as you can see from some of the responses in the last couple of pages. The choices were either A: Allow good shows to go down and for the trolling to continue or B: Form an alliance and stop it. Both choices really sucked for almost everyone involved. A for the obvious reason (terrible shows hanging on while great ones died) but B was terrible because it basically excluded a lot of people.

I think the thread was a success based on how many people (myself included) went and revisited shows that they hadn't thought about in two decades (in some cases) because of the discussions that sprung up around them almost every day. That's the fun of a contest like this for me, and I'd rather it hadn't come down to PM's.
 
All I know is that the first PM I got was in round 17 and the last in round 29. Only followed some of the suggestions from Jado though. Nothing before or after that. Every other vote change I did was me tallying the votes for myself.
 

vikki

Member
DBZ is not a troll. I dont think Arnold is either, even if I don't agree with its spot. I think the "deals" set in the beginning were really to get rid of shows like Don Coyote, which I did watch as a child.

I think some of the "deals" they don't actually exist and it's easier to believe than to think our favorite shows were voted out. That's not to say voting wasn't manipulated.

I've got a question for everyone. How many of you sacrificed shows you liked to try and save another show you wanted to survive?

I did so with Reboot when it was Beast Wars vs. Reboot and I did with PPG when it was Dex vs. PPG.
 
If the people who posted right after the round result killed off stuff I didn't mind getting killed then I'd jump on the bandwagon. "As long as they don't target my favorites" and all that.
 

LordCanti

Member
DBZ is not a troll. I dont think Arnold is either, even if I don't agree with its spot. I think the "deals" set in the beginning were really to get rid of shows like Don Coyote, which I did watch as a child.

I think some of the "deals" they don't actually exist and it's easier to believe than to think our favorite shows were voted out. That's not to say voting wasn't manipulated.

DBZ wasn't a troll at all (not that Arnold was). It was one of the shows saved by the alliance that formed. It hadn't really received any kills at all for the entire competition until it was pitted against Reboot. It took an allied assault on Reboot to save DBZ, though it cost Superman in the process (if I'm remembering correctly). It was down to the wire between DBZ, Reboot, and Superman, and only one show was able to make it out alive at almost literally the last minute (as votes got switched from single Reboot kills to doubles because Superman had faded enough that trying to save it was pointless).

If the people who posted right after the round result killed off stuff I didn't mind getting killed then I'd jump on the bandwagon. "As long as they don't target my favorites" and all that.

That was pretty much what I did for most rounds. Dexter instead of PPG? Okay. Angry Beavers instead of the other hundred junk shows we had left at the time? Sure, why not. If it didn't have a legitimate shot at the top 10, I just went with it.
 
I've got a question for everyone. How many of you sacrificed shows you liked to try and save another show you wanted to survive?

I did so with Reboot when it was Beast Wars vs. Reboot and I did with PPG when it was Dex vs. PPG.


Animaniacs vs Rocko vs Arnold

Kill: Animaniacs - Yet another round with an Animaniacs kill.
Kill: Hey! Arnold - Hope Animaniacs goes, but if not then rather Arnold out than Rocko


Arnold vs Rocko vs Powerpuff

Kill: Hey! Arnold - Of the 5 shows. This is maybe the weakest one.
Kill: Rocko's Modern Life - I don't like to do this but another show I like better is threatened.

Only tried that in those two rounds. Show I wanted to save in bold and show I wanted out in italics.
 

Jado

Banned
DBZ is not a troll. I dont think Arnold is either, even if I don't agree with its spot. I think the "deals" set in the beginning were really to get rid of shows like Don Coyote, which I did watch as a child.

I think some of the "deals" they don't actually exist and it's easier to believe than to think our favorite shows were voted out. That's not to say voting wasn't manipulated.

I've got a question for everyone. How many of you sacrificed shows you liked to try and save another show you wanted to survive?

I did so with Reboot when it was Beast Wars vs. Reboot and I did with PPG when it was Dex vs. PPG.

Actually, vikki, DBZ was going to die in Round 25. Reboot was in a comfortable safe third, but in the last hour a pretty strong alliance put all their votes into making sure Courage and Reboot were deep in first and second place, and DBZ fell into third. Of course, you could also make the argument that the only reason DBZ almost got eliminated in the first place was because of voter manipulation.

Round 20 was the first round Reboot should've died, alongside Beast Wars. I manipulated the voting to narrowly kill Johnny Bravo and in the process save TMNT (because I genuinely liked it) and Reboot (because I felt bad people were piling on it + alliance to kill the CG shows). See bolded here:

There was definitely an alliance for a little while, you can see its formation here. They have voted as a block on several rounds. Earlier, they were enough to put enough votes on a show to take it out, then it transitioned into a bit of a 'nomination' where they would put up a couple shows with 4/5 kills out of the gate, letting the pile-ons finish them off.
As more people join the thread, and more people have stronger opinions about the shows getting nominated, it seems to be unpredictable.

The wild vote-editing is also getting pretty crazy. In the afternoon, things look one way, but by tally time, there have been huge reversals! Yesterday was a rollercoaster for second place, first Reboot, then TMNT, then finally Mr. Bravo taking the bullet.

I didn't mind shows like South Park and Doug going out if it meant Darkwing Duck stayed on a while longer. When offering alternatives to killing Reboot, Darkwing Duck was never one of those.
 
Kill: Hey Arnold. Never liked that show anyway.
Kill: Batman: The Animated Series. As much as I love it, there's something better.
Save: The Simpsons. A cornerstone of '90s culture, TV sitcoms, and animation in general.
 

ScHlAuChi

Member
Kill: Hey Arnold - was abit too kiddy
Kill: The Simpsons - started strong but became really weak in recent years
Save: Batman: The Animated Series - thats how you do Batman, dark and moody!
 

Cindres

Vied for a tag related to cocks, so here it is.
Kill - Hey Arnold: I was never a fan of it at the time, really I never got the appeal of the show.
Kill - Batman: It was decent at the time, as a kid I definitely enjoyed it but I don't think it holds up.

Save: The Simpsons: Right, well. Classic Simpsons is still my favourite show of all time. I must watch at least 3-4 episodes from seasons 1-9ish every week. Sure it took a dive, but this thread is 90s cartoons, and as far as I'm concerned The Simpsons was the best show at that time, and those seasons are my favourites EVER.
 
The only show that got killed in this survivor thread that, went way to early for my liking, was Courage - everything else sort of played itself out. I didn't really have any backroom deals or actually send any PMs out - I responded to allot of them, but never had the intention of methodically killing shows. But, that being said - all I need it Batman to win this - then it all went according to plan.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Kill: Hey! Arnold -Helga was annoying.
Kill:The Simpsons -It's not as good anymore, despite recent eps.
Save: Batman: The Animated Series
 
Batman deserves the win.

Save: B:TAS
Kill: Simpsons. -Wasn't a fan myself during the nineties.
Kill: Hey Arnold. This one hurts. I love the show almost as much as Batman.
 
Save: Batman the Animated Series: The best animated series hands down. A classic.
Kill: Simpsons - They didn't know when it end it. The bad outweighs the good.
Kill: Hey Arnold - Overrated.

Doin' my part.
 
So I think Batman is gonna win. Which of you did the recruiting in comic threads? You should feel full of shame.

Oh there we go, the SadRanger is recruiting votes in the ComicOT thread. I demand a recount!
 

KalBalboa

Banned
Gah, last minute recruiting from other threads?

Shame. What an anticlimactic ending. The Simpsons in the 90s was clearly the better show and had far more incredible episodes and seasons.

Lame.
 
Gah, last minute recruiting from other threads?

Shame. What an anticlimactic ending. The Simpsons in the 90s was clearly the better show and had far more incredible episodes and seasons.

Lame.
Yeah.
The Simpsons during the 90s was amazing.

I hope that the 00s survivor thread won't be as troubling.
 
You're not going to ask that this thread be locked right after we're done are you? I'd like some good discussion about future threads so it does go nice and easy. That way we can rope some more people in.


Yeah Mark Hammill is aight.
Why would I? It'll stay open.
 
Kill: Hey Arnold
Kill: Batman TAS
Save: Simpsons

Simpsons epitomizes the 90s and there's hardly a bad episode in the lot (well, let's say up to season 10 here). I can't choose anything else.
 
Might as well put my vote in here.
Kill: Batman: The Animated Series I'm so sorry.
Kill: Hey! Arnold. Against these two?
Save: The Simpsons The best episodes of a cartoon outside of Avatar that Ive ever watched.


Also about the 00s thread, A few other GAF members wanted to do a Toonami thread so I'm going to let them do that. What this means is that the 00s thread will come later, after theirs.
 

Eidan

Member
The only show that got killed in this survivor thread that, went way to early for my liking, was Courage - everything else sort of played itself out. I didn't really have any backroom deals or actually send any PMs out - I responded to allot of them, but never had the intention of methodically killing shows. But, that being said - all I need it Batman to win this - then it all went according to plan.

I missed it. Honestly how the hell did Courage lose so fast?
 
The votes are locked in.
The final results will be post in about an hour.
The spreadsheet is located here.

Gonna reiterate what I was saying before.
Also about the 00s thread, A few other GAF members wanted to do a Toonami thread so I'm going to let them do that. What this means is that the 00s thread will come later, after theirs.
 
The Final Countdown!
The winners of this contest after surviving many rounds are in reverse order:
Hey_Arnold_Characters.jpg
  • Hey! Arnold clinging onto its spot with 48 kills and 1 save lands itself far and away from the titans in 3rd place.

Batman: The Animated Series with a spread of 12 kills or more likely 6 kills on the other show and 6 saves on itself is in 2nd place.

AND after countless hours, votes, kills, saves, pulling people from other threads, and PM shady style deals. THE WINNER IS...
The Simpsons! with just 25 kills and 31 saves is our first place winner and the true winner of this thread.

Thanks for voting everyone and The next thread of this style will not be mine. It will likely be the Toonami thread by two other GAF members. Will post details when I know them. The 00s thread will likely be after that. Thanks again for participating.
 

AniHawk

Member
all-time kills list. in parentheses is the amount of kills a show had when it was voted out when that amount was over 15 (in the case of the simpsons, batman, and hey arnold, for the final round)

Hey Arnold! 203 (48 kills)
DragonBall Z 115 (24 kills)
Reboot 114 (35 kills)
Batman Beyond 85 (31 kills)
Doug (Nickelodeon Version) 85 (28 kills)
The Powerpuff Girls 82 (21 kills)
Rocko's Modern Life 67 (27 kills)
Animaniacs 65 (19 kills)
Courage the Cowardly Dog 59 (28 kills)
Superman The Animated Series 58 (28 kills)
Dexter's Laboratory 56 (21 kills)
Rugrats 56 (29 kills)
Swat Kats 55 (27 kills)
Ren & Stimpy 54 (28 kills)
The Simpsons 53 (25 kills)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 49 (26 kills)
Batman:The Animated Series 46 (31 kills)
The Angry Beavers 41 (19 kills)
Tale Spin 38 (19 kills)
Freakazoid 37 (21 kills)
Eek! The Cat 36 (21 kills)
Beavis and Butthead 35 (27 kills)
Home Movies 34 (19 kills)
Pinky & The Brain 32 (19 kills)
Darkwing Duck 32 (17 kills)
Tiny Toons 31 (18 kills)
Gargoyles 31 (23 kills)
Recess 27 (19 kills)
Where on Earth is Carmen Sandiego 27
Aladdin(TV) 26 (19 kills)
Johnny Bravo 25 (19 kills)
Spongebob Squarepants (Seasons 1-4) 23 (20 kills)
The Tick 24 (19 kills)
Hercules 22 (18 kills)
Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog (SatAM) 22 (21 kills)
Cow & Chicken 21
X-Men:The Animated Series 20 (16 kills)
The Weekenders 20 kills (20 kills)
Ed, Edd, and Eddy 20
Bobby's World 19
DuckTales 18 (18 kills)
Samurai Pizza Cats 18
South Park 18
Ahh! Real Monsters 17
Sailor Moon 15
Captain Planet 15
Arthur 17
Beast Wars 15
The Adventures of Don Coyote and Sancho Panda 14
Mega Man(90s Version) 14
cow and chicken 13
Goof Troop 13
The Mask 12
Swamp Thing 12
The Wild Thornberrys 11
Kablam! 11
Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot 10
Pokemon 10
Fantastic Max 10
Spiderman: The Animated Series 10
Daria 9
Biker Mice From Mars 8
Mutant League 5
mr bogus 4

how to read the save list:
because this was far less interesting, these are the shows with only ten saves. the number in parentheses is the highest number of saves that show received when that number was ten or more.

Reboot 82 (18 saves)
Hey Arnold! 57 (10 saves)
Courage the Cowardly Dog 45 (11 saves)
Ren & Stimpy 45 (18 saves)
Superman The Animated Series 41 (14 saves)
DragonBall Z 40
Freakazoid 37
Doug (Nickelodeon Version) 35 (11 saves)
the simpsons (31 saves)
Swat Kats 29
batman the animated series (25 saves)
The Angry Beavers 25
Darkwing Duck 22
Home Movies 18
Beavis and Butthead 15
Gargoyles 15
Tiny Toons 13
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 12
Eek! The Cat 12
Rugrats 12
Tale Spin 11
 
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