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Why teachers can’t hotfoot it out of Kansas fast enough

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Piecake

Member
Well, there’s the low pay. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, the average teaching salary in 2012-2013 (the latest year for which data were available, in constant 2012-2013 dollars), was $47,464, lower than the pay in all but seven states (Arkansas, Florida, Mississippi, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota and West Virginia), though not by much in most of them.

Last year, job protections were cut by state lawmakers, who have also sought to reduce collective-bargaining rights for public employees.

Then there’s the severe underfunding for public education by the administration of Republican Gov. Sam Brownback, so much of a problem that some school districts closed early this past school year because they didn’t have the cash to keep operating. This story by Huffington Post, quoted Tim Hallacy, superintendent of Silver Lake Schools, as saying:

“I find it increasingly difficult to convince young people that education is a profession worth considering, and I have some veterans who think about leaving. In the next three years I think we’ll have maybe the worst teacher shortage in the country — I think most of that is self-inflicted.”

And there’s more. According to the Topeka Capital-Journal, the Kansas Board of Education decided in July to allow six school systems — including two of the largest in the state — to hire unlicensed teachers to ease the shortage. (Let the irony sink in for a minute.) Specifically, the newspaper reported:

The measure will waive the state’s licensure regulations for a group of districts called the Coalition of Innovative Districts, a program that the Legislature established in 2013 based on model legislation from the American Legislative Exchange Council.

According to new data released by the Kansas Department of Education, at least 3,720 teachers left their jobs either by going to other states to teach, retiring or leaving the profession altogether, the Associated Press reported. That, the AP said, was substantially higher than in previous years. KCUR reported in this story by Sam Zeff that Kansas is becoming such a hard place for teachers that many are crossing into Missouri to find jobs. The story says in part:

A billboard along the Kansas Turnpike eight miles east of Lawrence reads: Independence Missouri School District. Hiring teachers for 2015-2016…. In 2011, before huge tax cuts were enacted, only 85 applications for Missouri teaching licenses were filed with a Kansas address. In the next three years, as school budgets were slashed, those applications doubled. During that same period, applications for Missouri teaching licenses from Arkansas and Iowa remained steady.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ansas-fast-enough/?postshare=5971438558581596

Who would have thought that making teaching more difficult, with no protection, and shit pay would cause a teacher shortage that apparently needs to be filled with people who have no qualifications?
 

norm9

Member
They don't have money because the government took it all away. I feel bad for teachers. They're behind the 8 ball normally. When you have people actively making their jobs harder, I get caught speechless.
 
Makes you want to believe that it's some Republican conspiracy to keep people as dumb as possible so they vote Republican.

This is a joke post. Kind of.
 

dabig2

Member
They don't have money because the government took it all away. I feel bad for teachers. They're behind the 8 ball normally. When you have people actively making their jobs harder, I get caught speechless.

Kansas government is merely reappropriating that money where it's needed most - tax cuts to spur business and innovation and boost jobs. All of the success in those areas makes it worth it.
 

shem935

Banned
It's a disgrace. During their record breaking length legislative session they floated completely defunding several colleges as a way to make the gap in state funding. (This included my college, would have shut down my summer classes)

http://www.kansasbudget.com/

This is a blog written by the former kansas budget director who successfully ran the states budget under democrat and republican governors. Brownback fired him though. Guess he was doing too good of a job.

Kansas government is merely reappropriating that money where it's needed most - tax cuts to spur business and innovation and boost jobs. All of the success in those areas makes it worth it.

What success? We are trailing all of our neighboring states in job creation even though they have higher taxes.

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article354260/Under-Gov.-Sam-Brownback-Kansas-lags-neighboring-states-and-the-nation-in-job-growth.html
 
Makes you want to believe that it's some Republican conspiracy to keep people as dumb as possible so they vote Republican.

This is a joke post. Kind of.

It's not a conspiracy, it's the truth.

Keep the majority of the population uneducated and poor.

Turn the uneducated poor against the uneducated poor.

Only the elite rise.

Profit.
 

dabig2

Member
Isn't $47,464 a not-bad salary by American standards?

I'd hazard to say that relatively speaking, that teacher salary isn't all that. Not enough, at least, to keep me in Kansas when the complete destruction of the system is taking place and I'm losing more and more funding, classrooms are now overcrowding, and overall demeanor is gloomy.

So yeah, less about the salary and more about everything else going to hell that if I'm reading those tea leaves correctly, I'm getting the hell out of dodge and heading for greener pastures.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
It's one thing to starve the beast and hope for the best, it's another to starve the beast, have a massive --- like devastatingly massive shortfall has had since Brownback cut taxes (primarily for the wealthy, obv) -- and then look for things to cut after the fact.

Kansas is a literal disaster right now. Don't be surprised if they lose Garmin HQ and Sprint (Ericsson) HQ in no time. Mid-range workers need decent places to send their kids to school or they won't come.

I mean, they're making MISSOURI look good right now. Good lord Kansas what's wrong with you?
 
Isn't $47,464 a not-bad salary by American standards?

Its actually really competitive especially when you consider all the time off.

Just keep shitting on teachers I guess, we can probably pay less and have better talent, I mean it's not like they have to take training during that time off, it's not like they work well past their work hours, deal with admin, parents, pressure to preform, etc.
 

Piecake

Member
Its actually really competitive especially when you consider all the time off.

How is it really competitive when it is at the bottom in terms of average teacher pay? I swear, I think everyone is forgetting that teaching requires a college degree and additional training and many teachers have masters degrees. It requires a significant investment in education, which other government jobs do not.

Also, teaching is perhaps one of the most stressful jobs in existence and basically all teachers work significant amounts of hours outside of class preparing lessons, grading papers, etc. Summer isn't all free either since that is when teachers take classes to further their education, go to meetings and prepare for the upcoming school year, which can be especially challenging if you are teaching a completely new subject.
 

Ric Flair

Banned
I really can't comprehend the thinking behind cutting education funding when we're already so far behind the rest of the modern world. It's shameful.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Isn't $47,464 a not-bad salary by American standards?

Its actually really competitive especially when you consider all the time off.

I'd hazard to say that relatively speaking, that teacher salary isn't all that. Not enough, at least, to keep me in Kansas when the complete destruction of the system is taking place and I'm losing more and more funding, classrooms are now overcrowding, and overall demeanor is gloomy.

So yeah, less about the salary and more about everything else going to hell that if I'm reading those tea leaves correctly, I'm getting the hell out of dodge and heading for greener pastures.

No no no no no no. 47K is the average, which means it includes the higher-paid and longer-tenured teachers. Like someone said, there's a lot more to it than this. And the 'summer off' thing is a joke. Teachers put in their 2080 hours just like everyone else -- theirs just comes in 10-11 month segments.

Ain't gonna be listening to people acting like teachers get paid well up in here today. NOPE.
 
Just keep shitting on teachers I guess, we can probably pay less and have better talent, I mean it's not like they have to take training during that time off, it's not like they work well past their work hours, deal with admin, parents, pressure to preform, etc.

I am a teacher. No one is saying that teachers shouldn't get paid more, I'm sure everyone would like to get paid more. In Houston the base pay is 51k with zero experience straight out of school. There aren't that many careers out there that can get 50k straight out of college and still get the amount of time off that teachers get.
 
Isn't $47,464 a not-bad salary by American standards?
It is not bad considering it probably doesn't cost much to get a house around there.

And you get summers off.

But . . . . it is not very good for a professional that probably has a degree and often a graduate degree.
 
How is it really competitive when it is at the bottom in terms of average teacher pay? I swear, I think everyone is forgetting that teaching requires a college degree and additional training and many teachers have masters degrees. It requires a significant investment in education, which other government jobs do not.

Also, teaching is perhaps one of the most stressful jobs in existence and basically all teachers work significant amounts of hours outside of class preparing lessons, grading papers, etc. Summer isn't all free either since that is when teachers take classes to further their education, go to meetings and prepare for the upcoming school year, which can be especially challenging if you are teaching a completely new subject.


Nah man, if you are a teacher you're just baby sitting! And, all that sweet time off, living on easy street.
 

devilhawk

Member
It's one thing to starve the beast and hope for the best, it's another to starve the beast, have a massive --- like devastatingly massive shortfall has had since Brownback cut taxes (primarily for the wealthy, obv) -- and then look for things to cut after the fact.

Kansas is a literal disaster right now. Don't be surprised if they lose Garmin HQ and Sprint (Ericsson) HQ in no time. Mid-range workers need decent places to send their kids to school or they won't come.

I mean, they're making MISSOURI look good right now. Good lord Kansas what's wrong with you?
These companies pull from Olathe, OP (Blue Valley) and Shawnee. They will be fine. No where in KC compares, and no where in MO compares short of Chesterfield and the like.

It's everywhere else in Kansas that is trouble.
 
I am a teacher. No one is saying that teachers shouldn't get paid more, I'm sure everyone would like to get paid more. In Houston the base pay is 51k with zero experience straight out of school. There aren't that many careers out there that can get 50k straight out of college and still get the amount of time off that teachers get.

You're a college professor though, or am I mistaken?


I see districts desperate to attract to attract good talent on that bass pay is why I think it's asinine to think it's good pay.
 
You're a college professor though, or am I mistaken?

Was an adjunct, transferred to a local high school.

Adjuncts, now that is some shit...hot hot shit. Zero benefits, zero control over material you get paid for only in-class time and the vast majority of adjuncts have to teach at numerous colleges because the institutions do not want to pay benefits so they keep you at a minimum class load.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
These companies pull from Olathe, OP (Blue Valley) and Shawnee. They will be fine. No where in KC compares, and no where in MO compares short of Chesterfield and the like.

It's everywhere else in Kansas that is trouble.

Lee's Summit represent tho

(point taken, I guess). I would just say that what happens in the rest of the state will absolutely fuck up what's happening in Blue Valley and Shawnee Mission school districts.

I mean, if I'm a voter there I'm worried about the stature of my state. Where do you think all those other people are going? First place they'll move to is Overland Park.
 

Zeshile

Member
I still can't believe we re-elected Brownback. He hasn't done one good thing for us.


And to anyone saying the wage is not that bad, I have two teachers in my family. Trust me, they do not make enough to make up for all they do and all the experience they have.
 

Foffy

Banned
Isn't $47,464 a not-bad salary by American standards?

I guess it would depend on the conditions one is in to get that paper. What if it's a not-bad salary but a bad-bad situation for the teacher? Can a teacher do well with crowded rooms?
 

Piecake

Member
Was an adjunct, transferred to a local high school.

Adjuncts, now that is some shit...hot hot shit. Zero benefits, zero control over material you get paid for only in-class time and the vast majority of adjuncts have to teach at numerous colleges because the institutions do not want to pay benefits so they keep you at a minimum class load.

Well, that is understandable then. Coming from an adjunct position, the benefits and pay of a high school teacher must seem like a gift from heaven
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Isn't $47,464 a not-bad salary by American standards?

For the hours teachers put in? 6-8 hours every day teaching and taking care of kids, plus before/after school hours for makeup tests, grading, PTA conferences, lesson plans, meetings with other school faculty, board meetings, etc.

And they're constantly having to keep their certifications up to date, as much if not moreso than doctors and lawyers. Plus they have to deal with new curriculum standards and political bullshit dangling over their heads every year. Many teachers have to dig into their own personal finances to buy enough supplies (books, utensils, even chairs and tables) for their classrooms.

A teacher should be among the best paid jobs out there.
 
Well, that is understandable then. Coming from an adjunct position, the benefits and pay of a high school teacher must seem like a gift from heaven

It is. $2,000 per course each course has 35 students. I would have to adjunct 25 courses per year to get the same salary that I was offered in Houston. I don't plan on teaching for more than 5-7 years before making a move into administration or content specialist.
 

Paskil

Member
Because of course ALEC is balls deep in Kansas.

I am a teacher. No one is saying that teachers shouldn't get paid more, I'm sure everyone would like to get paid more. In Houston the base pay is 51k with zero experience straight out of school. There aren't that many careers out there that can get 50k straight out of college and still get the amount of time off that teachers get.

Yeah, no. I'm calling bullshit in your anecdotal experiencing. It's cool that you are doing well,but try starting out teaching in a rural community. My cousin teaches public middle school in Wisconsin, another state that has been trying to bend over its teachers for years, and she has a graduate degree and started at $24K a year. You live in Houston, probably one of the more/most liberal cities in this country. Of course they're going to take care of their teachers.
 

gogosox82

Member
Isn't $47,464 a not-bad salary by American standards?

That's the average though. Most teachers starting out probably make way less than that. Plus, when you consider most teachers are told they need a masters if they want to advance, many teachers have masters degrees making 47k a year or less and there's dealing with admin, overcrowded classes, constant budget cuts, dealing with parents who think you are there to baby sit their kid, etc its really not all that much money considering how much when you consider everything they have to deal with which is why most people leave teaching and we are having issues attracting people to teaching.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
It is. $2,000 per course each course has 35 students. I would have to adjunct 25 courses per year to get the same salary that I was offered in Houston. I don't plan on teaching for more than 5-7 years before making a move into administration or content specialist.

What the everloving fuck. The adjunct situation is so fucked. One of the smartest and best teachers I had in college was stuck in adjunct hell and I always felt bad for him, because he so clearly deserved a shit-ton more stability and pay
 

Foffy

Banned
I don't know what to say to this. I guess? I mean, name a profession where the licensed sort aren't the ones you'd want first. Any?

You can have someone who is heavily invested in self-learning. The powers of the internet can easily usurp the traditional "assimilate to college" model of thinking.

Of course, the red flag with that is it assumes lots of people have that time and interest to really nail it. The bigger flag is assuming someone would adhere to this with American education.
 
What the everloving fuck. The adjunct situation is so fucked. One of the smartest and best teachers I had in college was stuck in adjunct hell and I always felt bad for him, because he so clearly deserved a shit-ton more stability and pay

Yep, and tenure track positions and/or FT faculty positions are on the way to extinction. After all, screw the students you can just hire starving adjuncts who get shit. Again, don't forget that I would have to teach 25 courses and each institution is going to limit you to 2-3 courses.

Should note that 2k per course was gross not net.
 

Piecake

Member
What the everloving fuck. The adjunct situation is so fucked. One of the smartest and best teachers I had in college was stuck in adjunct hell and I always felt bad for him, because he so clearly deserved a shit-ton more stability and pay

There basically aren't any non-adjunct positions anymore because of the glut of qualified professors out there that colleges can get away with paying professors a poverty wage and there aren't really any opportunities to advance from that position either. Colleges decided to spend their money on fancy new buildings, equipment, and administration. It might be different in the sciences, but it is a rife in the humanities and social sciences.
 
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