PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Edit: I'm a dum dum and was educated in Missouri. vvv
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Why teachers cant hotfoot it out of Kansas fast enough
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Edit: I'm a dum dum and was educated in Missouri. vvv
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I see now you said "less quality person" and not "less quality teacher." I'm sorry Karsticles, I was wrong.
Pretty sure they do, but when you consider that a large number of Americans don't even have two weeks of vacation (never mind how much of that they actually get to use)...
Prototype Viktor
Member
You're alive so I'll assume you are not in HISD
I don't think there would be a teaching profession if you didnt give teachers a significant period of time to just de-stress. Plus, you can't do much professional developing when you are teaching. Giving time for that is pretty essential if you want students to have a quality education.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Rather not get too specific, sorry.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I'd feel bad for the people of Kansas, but they keep electing these people. It's like the city of Springfield hiring Homer to lead the sanitation department, sorry, you're all screwed.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
God my wife and I wish she made that much. $30k high school math teacher.
Shamrock7r
Member
That seems unreasonably low. Is the district she is teaching in a small town/ outskirts of a larger city? Or a charter school?
That is pretty standard for a new teacher without a masters degree
Shamrock7r
Member
It depends on location. In Texas, for example. starting pay in the Houston/Austin/San Antonio districts is in the upper 40k. In Dallas I believe it is around 50k. In some of the surrounding smaller towns in Texas, and in private/charter schools, starting pay can be as low as 32-35k. That's all with a bachelors
rokkerkory
Member
Why do people vote for republicans when they cut education spending? Do they want to keep their kids ignorant and unproductive later on in life?
That really sucks. I teach in CT, and my starting salary is comparable to the average salary there.
And for people saying that the salary is fine for also having "all that time off", I can't stop laughing. Teachers work like crazy for the 10 months of school. It's the kind of job that you can't just go home and you're done with work. You have a constant deadline, and that deadline is always just one day away to make sure everything is planned for the day. We also do quite a lot of prep work in the summer for our classroom.
Also, yes, teachers in most states require a masters. I have a masters in education. My friends who have masters in other fields are making 20-30k more than I am and when they get home from work they relax and don't have to think about it anymore.
And for people saying that the salary is fine for also having "all that time off", I can't stop laughing. Teachers work like crazy for the 10 months of school. It's the kind of job that you can't just go home and you're done with work. You have a constant deadline, and that deadline is always just one day away to make sure everything is planned for the day. We also do quite a lot of prep work in the summer for our classroom.
Also, yes, teachers in most states require a masters. I have a masters in education. My friends who have masters in other fields are making 20-30k more than I am and when they get home from work they relax and don't have to think about it anymore.
That's exactly what it is. Keep them dumb and uninformed and they will vote GOP.
The Faceless Master
Member
but they have every weekend off and don't have to spend it (or evenings) grading papers.
In Houston, salaries got competitive among the districts so starting teachers in every district are making 50K-51K.
Doesnt stop the insane teacher burnout some districts got cough cough HISD and Alief
Legato.Reborn-
Member
Small town, outskirt of a larger city indeed. Outside of Tulsa. (Oklahoma)
This should be your question. This doesn't mean Democrats are instantly better, they're just not regressive and ignorant.
I was going to say this screams Private school.
You also live in CT which is the richest state per capita in the country, the COL in CT is magnitudes higher than in Kansas.
Risible
Member
You only make $2k per course you teach? Is that a 3 credit course? And a full semester?? What the hell. What subject? I'll say I make far more than that adjuncting math at a local community college.
speculawyer
Member
But remember, it is those greedy teacher unions that are destroying the country.
if they weren't so greedy, we wouldn't have to cut their pay so much!
Legato.Reborn-
Member
Hilariously enough, a company is looking at hiring me after December in KC and we were looking for teaching positions around Olathe and then all this shit has started. Good stuff. Thanks Kansas.
I dispatch fuel trucks.
it doesnt pay a lot lol.
Im in charge of 26 trucks and drivers.
True. We also have the highest disparity in wealth in the nation too though. I've taught some of the poorest kids in the nation.
Thats the story for adjunct professors. Have a coworker with a Ph.D. Had to work at buckees to make ends meet for her family as she taught two courses at a local university.
Shamrock7r
Member
Yea. That's what it sounded like. I am assuming salaries are lower because cost of living is lower in the area. It's a shame though, because those districts end up having a lot of trouble attracting or keeping new teachers.
In Houston, salaries got competitive among the districts so starting teachers in every district are making 50K-51K.
Doesnt stop the insane teacher burnout some districts got cough cough HISD and Alief
God I hope that competitiveness trickles down to South Texas where I live. I know CCISD just upped there starting teacher pay to 46k or so, which is pretty good considering the rent there is considerably lower vs similar areas in Houston.
Well, on the bright side, your wife won't have an issue finding a teaching position.
I think part of the problem is not getting paid OT for long hours doing prep work and grading. Also, many teachers have to spend their own money to buy supplies for their classes.
In CA $47K is not that much at all. In Kansas? That could be like $100K/year for all I know.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
HERE WE GO, FOLKS.
Fact is, that's not why they're getting elected -- that's just a cost of their tenure. They're getting elected because of much, much worse reasons like racism and science rejection. You think worse schools are bad? Wait until big businesses leave Kansas because they can't find qualified workers who aren't raving racist, evolution/climate change-denying lunatics.
(as a former employee of Sprint I'm obliged to tell you their HQ is already filled with those types)
Eh, I think that title belongs to NJ, our poor school districts are beyond poor.
I checked ... I was wrong, you're right behind NYC and DC.
For a professional career that requires a degree and has a high rate of masters degrees? It's horrible.
The private sector pays significantly more.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Teachers get criticized cos we get time off even though we work about half that time off. We need laymens to try it out for a year.
It's not bad. Especially in a place where cost of living is probably lower compared to the national average.
But for the level of education/degree that being a teacher can sometimes entail, it's not great either.
Sorry, I should have said one of. We've constantly been near or at the top.
Perhaps the Kansas government is just 3 dimensional chess. Perhaps this is all just a long strategy for the citizens to realize how difficult teaching is and to appreciate teachers and education more once more and more unqualified people off the streets have to start teaching in Kansas schools since all of the qualified teachers are bolting for the borders or retiring.
Quite brilliant actually. I wish them success.
The people who are making decisions about what teachers should be doing and how much they should be getting paid have never set foot inside of a classroom (except as a student) and have no idea what it's actually like to teach.
This is part of the problem with educational policy in the US.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
Yeah can't complain about rent.
And the districts are a joke here, we're moving because we don't want to raise our eventual children here. We managed to escape.
Right? No certifications needed now in some of the Overland Park schools!
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
2k per course three credit course per semester, history (but the pay is the same even if you are teaching math). It is the reason I switched over to high school.
Solid article on adjuncting.
Risible
Member
I started my career teaching high school in Connecticut.
Worst job I ever had.
Your day starts at 7:30am or so and classes end at 3pm. 30 minutes for lunch if you're lucky and no kids stay after to ask you questions or anything from the period before. You have one free period for prep. You have to use the restroom either during your lunch period or the prep period, if you have to go some other time tough, you have to wait. The rest of the time it's go go go to get through all the material you have to get through.
After school there's often teacher or departmental meetings. Then you get to go home and grade the tests and homework from that day. You usually have 5-6 preps at most schools, each class with 30 kids, so that's 150+ assignments to check and grade.
The kids are forced to be there and don't want to be there. They know you have basically no power over them and act accordingly. They have to attend by law, so you can't just kick them out.
Then there's the helicopter parents contacting the Superintendent of Schools (yes, the superintendent, they skip over the department head and the principal and go right to their pal the superintendent) bitching about why Johnny got a B and not an A.
Everyone is playing the CYA game, so you get no support from administration. Your bosses are everyone basically - the kids, their parents, your department head, your principal, and the superintendent, you answer to ALL of them.
It's depressing, stressful, and the successes are far and few between. It's also monotonous, every day is the same no matter how hard you try - you can try spice up your teaching but ultimately there's a curriculum to get through and you had BETTER get through it.
I've mopped floors overnight at a grocery store, and cleaned up dogshit for a living at an animal shelter. I hated teaching high school far, far more than those jobs.
Karsticles
Member
No harm done.
I will address your "quality teacher" point, though.
I have had numerous awful teachers that were licensed. Sat on their asses and did nothing but collect a paycheck. I know many fantastic unlicensed teachers. I am currently 3/4 of my way through a licensing program, and it has been the most worthless degree I have ever obtained (I have 3 others). The entire thing has been a breeze, and I rarely need to put serious effort into my work.
Unlicensed teachers just need to be trained on-the-job, but so do licensed teachers. Unlicensed teachers are primarily missing theory and terminology. The latter of these is minimal in value, and practical application can shore up theory, in my opinion. I think that, if you were to visit schools that house numerous unlicensed teachers, you might discover that you can't tell the difference between the two categories.
Unlicensed teachers still have 4-year degrees. They may just not have degrees in Education. Some of these individuals are extremely qualified to teach, but do not actually have a teaching degree. For example, a previous co-worker of mine was a retired Commander in the U.S. Army. In addition to teaching math, he also teaches U.S. History and a Survival Skills class. He is an incredibly upbeat person that every student looks up to because he knows how to direct a classroom to order. He is the only co-worker of mine that spoke out against mass punishing the school's students for deeds performed by the few. In my 30 years of living, I can honestly say that he is in the top 5 teachers I have ever met, and I would be grateful if my own child could have a teacher as good as he.
I am not saying unlicensed teachers are better than licensed teachers. I am saying that unlicensed teachers are often great teachers, and that the value of a teaching degree, in my opinion, is minimal. If you are still skeptical, I encourage you to find a reputable charter school and observe their classrooms.
Rather funny that you dispatch all these hardy trucker types and adore moe culture.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Yup, pretty much.... But you need to get results!
Risible
Member
That's insane. What state if you don't mind me asking? I make close to double that per hour here in NY.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Houston, TX. Not willing to get any more specific, nor would I name any institution.
Risible
Member
No harm done.
I will address your "quality teacher" point, though.
I have had numerous awful teachers that were licensed. Sat on their asses and did nothing but collect a paycheck. I know many fantastic unlicensed teachers. I am currently 3/4 of my way through a licensing program, and it has been the most worthless degree I have ever obtained (I have 3 others). The entire thing has been a breeze, and I rarely need to put serious effort into my work.
Unlicensed teachers just need to be trained on-the-job, but so do licensed teachers. Unlicensed teachers are primarily missing theory and terminology. The latter of these is minimal in value, and practical application can shore up theory, in my opinion. I think that, if you were to visit schools that house numerous unlicensed teachers, you might discover that you can't tell the difference between the two categories.
Unlicensed teachers still have 4-year degrees. They may just not have degrees in Education. Some of these individuals are extremely qualified to teach, but do not actually have a teaching degree. For example, a previous co-worker of mine was a retired Commander in the U.S. Army. In addition to teaching math, he also teaches U.S. History and a Survival Skills class. He is an incredibly upbeat person that every student looks up to because he knows how to direct a classroom to order. He is the only co-worker of mine that spoke out against mass punishing the school's students for deeds performed by the few. In my 30 years of living, I can honestly say that he is in the top 5 teachers I have ever met, and I would be grateful if my own child could have a teacher as good as he.
I am not saying unlicensed teachers are better than licensed teachers. I am saying that unlicensed teachers are often great teachers, and that the value of a teaching degree, in my opinion, is minimal. If you are still skeptical, I encourage you to find a reputable charter school and observe their classrooms.
Rather funny that you dispatch all these hardy trucker types and adore moe culture.
I will agree with you 100%. My education masters was a worthless fucking waste of time. I would have been far better served by just spending a year with a good teacher co-teaching a class, or just observing even.
"Unlicensed teachers are primarily missing theory and terminology." YUP.
Risible
Member
Karsticles
Member
The best part is that I am in year 3 of teaching, but I am doing assignments like "how to make a lesson plan" - lol.
unknownstranger
Member
You also spend most of your time at work browsing gaf.
OT: My mom's been a teacher for around 35 years so I've had to hear all the drama teachers have to deal with. Between whiny kids (she's taught 2nd grade almost the entire time) and overbearing parents that think they know how you should teach their child, I feel bad for them. If her pay got that heavily decreased, she'd probably quit that school district too.
No harm done.
I will address your "quality teacher" point, though.
I have had numerous awful teachers that were licensed. Sat on their asses and did nothing but collect a paycheck. I know many fantastic unlicensed teachers. I am currently 3/4 of my way through a licensing program, and it has been the most worthless degree I have ever obtained (I have 3 others). The entire thing has been a breeze, and I rarely need to put serious effort into my work.
Unlicensed teachers just need to be trained on-the-job, but so do licensed teachers. Unlicensed teachers are primarily missing theory and terminology. The latter of these is minimal in value, and practical application can shore up theory, in my opinion. I think that, if you were to visit schools that house numerous unlicensed teachers, you might discover that you can't tell the difference between the two categories.
Unlicensed teachers still have 4-year degrees. They may just not have degrees in Education. Some of these individuals are extremely qualified to teach, but do not actually have a teaching degree. For example, a previous co-worker of mine was a retired Commander in the U.S. Army. In addition to teaching math, he also teaches U.S. History and a Survival Skills class. He is an incredibly upbeat person that every student looks up to because he knows how to direct a classroom to order. He is the only co-worker of mine that spoke out against mass punishing the school's students for deeds performed by the few. In my 30 years of living, I can honestly say that he is in the top 5 teachers I have ever met, and I would be grateful if my own child could have a teacher as good as he.
I am not saying unlicensed teachers are better than licensed teachers. I am saying that unlicensed teachers are often great teachers, and that the value of a teaching degree, in my opinion, is minimal. If you are still skeptical, I encourage you to find a reputable charter school and observe their classrooms.
Rather funny that you dispatch all these hardy trucker types and adore moe culture.
I wold disagree with this. With only on-the-job training and no educational courses, I think teaching, much more often than not, will just devolve into the teacher getting up in front of the class and lecturing. Going through a teacher ed course, however, and provided that is a good one, should convince most teachers that it is far better to get the students actively engaged in their learning and dealing with questions and issues that are relevant to them, not just have you, the teacher stand up in front of the room telling them what you think is important and telling them a bunch of facts.
I think the vast majority of training only teachers will end up like those lecturers because that is how the majority of teachers seem to teach, due to inertia, the way that school is structured, and that it is simply 'easier' to just lecture instead of creating an interesting and engaging lesson. Plus, I think quite a few teachers just like to listen to themselves talk.
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