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Valve, is that you?

fresquito

Member
I started playing PC back in 2007, when I discovered Steam. Back then and through many years, Valve was all about quality and user experience. Nowadays? Not so much.

I run a Project CARS community and we do online leagues (or we did, up until now). We race on Sundays and for the last three weeks, Steam has dropped its connection. We have been forced to discontinue our league activity because we can't garantee that Steam will not drop connection. I've asked people, and it's the same for every game that uses Steamworks and is dependant on client checkout. It requires constant Steam connection, even if you're on a DS. So basically Steam is screwing A LOT of people with its drops. These drops have been happening for the last couple years with no apparent fix from Valve.

But it's not only that Steam is dropping. Some weeks ago Valve made DOTA 2 a Source 2 game. They sell tickets for online tournaments to be watched through DotaTV. In Source 1 you could watch the replay of each match, play it from the perspective you better liked, or use free camera. You could watch the replay of a match multiple times and learn, if that was your thing. You could, of course, watch your own replays. Not anymore, since Source 2 doesn't support replays at the moment. But they're still charging you the same money for what is basically a glorified Twitch version, since you can only watch the games live now.

Going on with Dota 2. I've been going back to it for a while now. I played a lot of Dota 2 when it was still in beta and for a period when it was finally released. I had to quit for different reasons and now that I'm back, with Reborn (the Source 2 version) it takes me longer than 10mins to find a game, when back then it rarely took me over 3. The oddest thing is that my MMR (ranking) is within average, so the biggest part of the community is supposed to have a similar MMR, which should grant me higher chances to find people to game with. Reading through forums, everybody seems to be hating Reborn. And the thing is obvious to me: They introduced it far earlier than they should. They wanted it for the first big tournament (called Major), but they're not ready. Still, they decide to go for it. even when they're screwing basically everybody as they do.

I could also talk about prices and sales being worse and worse each year, as competitors have arisen and they haven't done a thing to compete against them, since they're "winning" anyway. But I think I made enough arguments.

To sum things up, why is Valve going the shitty route? I thought they're more clever than that and they knew that they went up the ranks because we gamers perceived we all were winning. Why change what's worked for them and turn into a crappy company that doesn't invest enough in servers and that is ready to screw a big chunk of their audience so easily? Do you see them doing a Blizzard?
 

gai_shain

Member
Do you have any data to back up that sales are worse? People seem to say that alot and there was a change with the daily deals or some deals during sales but to me it seems like people already bought most games that they wanted in a prior sale and fault steam/valve for there not being more games they are interested in.
 

Dennis

Banned
The day I knew the game was up was when they announced Left for Dead 2 instead of the next Half-Life.

That is when I knew they lost the plot.
 

Tregard

Soothsayer
The economist they have probably predicted there was more money in becoming a gaming company rather than a games company, but I think that it will only hurt them in the long run. I don't anticipate Valve games anymore, I can't get excited for Portal 3 despite loving the first two because I just don't think it's ever going to happen. Maybe that's a good thing, eliminating hype, but it certainly doesn't make me feel good about Valve.

If the Steam Controller doesn't take off, I think Steam Machines and SteamOS are DOA, and Valve seriously has to reroute themselves.
 

iNvid02

Member
their staff economist has calculated roughly how much goodwill the half life 3 announcement will generate, so they are currently seeing how much money they can mine from f2p before the goodwill no longer redeems them.
 

Bumpers

Member
Do you have any data to back up that sales are worse? People seem to say that alot and there was a change with the daily deals or some deals during sales but to me it seems like people already bought most games that they wanted in a prior sale and fault steam/valve for there not being more games they are interested in.
One of the big offenders for me now is not being able to buy a game bundle and give the games you already own to your friends. The Orange Box and other publisher bundles were amazing, and I had no hesitation in buying a bunch of games I already owned just for 2 new games on my account, and giving the rest to friends.

You can't buy and gift 2/4 packs either if you already own the game, which is also a stupid decision.

-

I'm quite an avid Dota 2 player and Source 2 Dota has been considerably rushed and most of the mechanic changes have been more than questionable. The only quick responces they seem to be applying are UI based, which I'm thankful for as navigating beta Reborn was confusing.

For me they're focusing far too hard on creating an economy. Cosmetic items, marketplace, cards and more are just schemes to pocket. The only idea I've loved from them recently is the Steam Workshop, but that went through a very small phase of having paid content too. They seem to have lost that gameplay innovation spark the once had.

One thing I don't understand, and I'm glad you mentioned it, is how the Steam network going down isn't brought up more. It's less reliable for me than PSN (apart from download speed), yet there's lots of PSN downtime complaint threads. There have been times where the Steam Community and network go down daily.
 

CHC

Member
Do you have any data to back up that sales are worse? People seem to say that alot and there was a change with the daily deals or some deals during sales but to me it seems like people already bought most games that they wanted in a prior sale and fault steam/valve for there not being more games they are interested in.

I think it's mostly because every sale it's "the usual suspsects" - ya know, Just Cause 2, the Bioshock series, some Bethesda stuff, XCOM, etc. Those are all great games, but I am personally disappointed because I usually have a wishlist of like 20 games that don't go below maybe 25% off. They are mostly smaller games or indies, things that might cost $20-$30 that I'm not SUPER eager to own, but would be happy to pay 5 or 10 bucks for, but they just sit there for like 17 dollars.

I know I sound cheap and all, but I think my issue really is that the sales like to dazzle you with the same old games on sale for like 75%-90% off, meanwhile there are a lot really interesting looking titles that they don't seem intent on advertising or discounting.

It's great for when you are just getting into PC gaming but after a few years of sales it would be nice to see a little more variety.
 

Kyonashi

Member
I just don't really understand what they *do* as a company any more?

Other than the vague actions of 'managing Steam', which I guess includes content and management for TF2, CS:GO and Dota 2, which it seems like a company of their size could easily manage anyway.

Steam (on both desktop and mobile) is in dire need of a from-the-ground-up refresh, and is one of the most shoddy and buggy pieces of software I've ever used, and for a company who are supposed to KNOW PCs, that always really surprised me. Many a time I'll be unable to join friend's games of Payday 2 due to weird update glitches that don't show how much has downloaded, or randomly greyed out 'Join game' options.

I mean there's every chance Valve are hard at work on some secret project, whether that be killer apps for the Vive or something, but I mean, right now my perception of them is pretty low in all regards, which is such a shame after how I've felt about them in the past.
 

epmode

Member
Steam (on both desktop and mobile) is in dire need of a from-the-ground-up refresh, and is one of the most shoddy and buggy pieces of software I've ever used

Steam could use a UI redesign, of course, and some focus on general responsiveness but I've never understood the complaints about bugs. I use the software every day and it's worked fine for years.

I suppose I don't use the newest features like all the streaming stuff. The basics and BPM are great.

The day I knew the game was up was when they announced Left for Dead 2 instead of the next Half-Life.

That was a dark day. Looking forward to that L4D3 announcement!
 

danmaku

Member
I just don't really understand what they *do* as a company any more?

Other than the vague actions of 'managing Steam', which I guess includes content and management for TF2, CS:GO and Dota 2, which it seems like a company of their size could easily manage anyway.

Managing Steam and these games is a gigantic task, and they're obviously understaffed to do that. Especially when it comes to customer service.
 

AUS Karol

Banned
The day I knew the game was up was when they announced Left for Dead 2 instead of the next Half-Life.

That is when I knew they lost the plot.


Hey I think that they released L4D2 because they knew that it was good for the market at that time and they could life up to peoples expectations.

I just don't know if it is really fair to lose faith in them because that didn't release a game that would of have ridiculous expectations from its community.
 

DeaviL

Banned
One of the big offenders for me now is not being able to buy a game bundle and give the games you already own to your friends. The Orange Box and other publisher bundles were amazing, and I had no hesitation in buying a bunch of games I already owned just for 2 new games on my account, and giving the rest to friends.

You can't buy and gift 2/4 packs either if you already own the game, which is also a stupid decision.

I'm pretty sure the developer chooses if you can trade already owned games in packs.
 
Managing Steam and these games is a gigantic task, and they're obviously understaffed to do that. Especially when it comes to customer service.

This. Valve is a company made of ~350 employees. For all the stuff they do that's not a lot of people. Especially for Steam with its over 100m active user base. Even at last year's Steam Dev Days when talking about Steam Machines and making stream-only machines they brought up that's an internal bandwidth issue (since then they announced the Link though). For years now it has been looking like Valve is spread too thin.
 

Bumpers

Member
I'm pretty sure the developer chooses if you can trade already owned games in packs.
They can, but almost all of them opt out of it now. Not even Valve honours it anymore. It used to be a Christmas tradition amonst my friends during the pre-card sales, buying gift packs and sharing the games around.

The publisher packs are dissapointing now too, remember when you could buy every THQ/Sega/Valve game on Steam for 25-50% off?
 

fresquito

Member
One thing I don't understand, and I'm glad you mentioned it, is how the Steam network going down isn't brought up more. It's less reliable for me than PSN (apart from download speed), yet there's lots of PSN downtime complaint threads. There have been times where the Steam Community and network go down daily.
Seriously. We had to stop doing our online league because of this. We have rented a DS, but have no garantee that Steam will not drop us from the race. So, yeah, thanks to this gaming echosystem that Steam has turned into, we can't play our games anymore.

And the saddest part is that some people take it as something normal. WTF? How can that be normal? They sell you fucking Steamworks as the best tool for game creators but can't garantee that your game will be played online when their bloated system fails. And good God, how it fails..

Had you told me this 5 years ago, I wouldn't have believed it.
 

RudoIudo

Member
But it's not only that Steam is dropping. Some weeks ago Valve made DOTA 2 a Source 2 game. They sell tickets for online tournaments to be watched through DotaTV. In Source 1 you could watch the replay of each match, play it from the perspective you better liked, or use free camera. You could watch the replay of a match multiple times and learn, if that was your thing. You could, of course, watch your own replays. Not anymore, since Source 2 doesn't support replays at the moment. But they're still charging you the same money for what is basically a glorified Twitch version, since you can only watch the games live now.
Nope.
People lost source 1 replays (which is a big deal) but the replay feature is still in s2.
The push on reborn is also understandable since Valve can fix the bug faster with the feedback of millions users (the major is still too close).
 

GlamFM

Banned
cOMj3.gif


It´s over.

It really is.
 

fresquito

Member
Nope.
People lost source 1 replays (which is a big deal) but the replay feature is still in s2.
The push on reborn is also understandable since Valve can fix the bug faster with the feedback of millions users (the major is still too close).
You can't watch Tournaments replays. That's why I lost myself the whole american and asian qualifiers for ESL NY.
 
I use steam pretty much exclusively to communicate with my friends, and it must be something specific to CARS because I've never noticed any downtime other than the periodic scheduled server maintenance.

Your point about pricing and sales being "worse" is a little unfounded because it's not Valve that sets those prices. That's all on the publisher or whoever is the group in control for that particular product. Valve doesn't have much sway over them these days.

I don't think Valve is going the shitty route. I think there's a nostalgic perception of what Valve was when it was a smaller company. Early steam was pretty buggy; the more recent releases are plenty stable as a storefront/game launcher from what I've experienced. Hell even the streaming service works pretty well. The only thing in Steam that feels tacked on is that Music player, which just doesn't do the job it might have been made for.
 
I just don't really understand what they *do* as a company any more?

Other than the vague actions of 'managing Steam', which I guess includes content and management for TF2, CS:GO and Dota 2, which it seems like a company of their size could easily manage anyway.

Steam (on both desktop and mobile) is in dire need of a from-the-ground-up refresh, and is one of the most shoddy and buggy pieces of software I've ever used, and for a company who are supposed to KNOW PCs, that always really surprised me. Many a time I'll be unable to join friend's games of Payday 2 due to weird update glitches that don't show how much has downloaded, or randomly greyed out 'Join game' options.

I mean there's every chance Valve are hard at work on some secret project, whether that be killer apps for the Vive or something, but I mean, right now my perception of them is pretty low in all regards, which is such a shame after how I've felt about them in the past.

Whatever the f they please, as has always been the case. If no one on Valve cares enough to rebuild the Steam backend, no one does.
 

Fractal

Banned
Personally, I never actually cared about Valve much. To me, they're just the company behind Steam, which I've always considered a quality DD store, nothing more and nothing less. For example, while I can agree the Steam could use a visual overhaul or two to get with the times, can't really say I ever experienced any notable bugs with the client.

But aside from that, as far as their games go, I only care about the Half Life franchise. The rest isn't exactly my cup of tea, though I can appreciate Portal. So ultimately, Valve hasn't exactly been changing much over the years from where I'm standing.
 

Steiner84

All 26 hours. Multiple times.
i had the same disconnects on the last three sundays when I was playing Rocket LEague.

I cant relate to valve anyway anymore.
I was a very very active user until somewhere arround 2008 when i bought a ps3. then i was mostly console only and havent touched steam (hadnt even installed it) for a couple of years. Got into some PC games again last year and, wow, what a behemoth steam has become. I find myself constantly lost, and I honestly dont understand the account system. When i give someone my login account name he cant find me in the friends system, instead i have to give him an arbitrary nickname which isnt my account name and neither my nickname.. i dont understand that..
 

Compsiox

Banned
Eh I don't really need their games. I like the direction they're taking Steam and VR (aside from paid mods fuckin horrible). That's enough for me right now.
 

Thorgal

Member
I think it's mostly because every sale it's "the usual suspsects" - ya know, Just Cause 2, the Bioshock series, some Bethesda stuff, XCOM, etc. Those are all great games, but I am personally disappointed because I usually have a wishlist of like 20 games that don't go below maybe 25% off. They are mostly smaller games or indies, things that might cost $20-$30 that I'm not SUPER eager to own, but would be happy to pay 5 or 10 bucks for, but they just sit there for like 17 dollars.

I know I sound cheap and all, but I think my issue really is that the sales like to dazzle you with the same old games on sale for like 75%-90% off, meanwhile there are a lot really interesting looking titles that they don't seem intent on advertising or discounting.

It's great for when you are just getting into PC gaming but after a few years of sales it would be nice to see a little more variety.

Valve doesn't set those discount s. The makers decide if their game goes on sale and by how much.
 

McBradders

NeoGAF: my new HOME
But it's not only that Steam is dropping. Some weeks ago Valve made DOTA 2 a Source 2 game. They sell tickets for online tournaments to be watched through DotaTV. In Source 1 you could watch the replay of each match, play it from the perspective you better liked, or use free camera. You could watch the replay of a match multiple times and learn, if that was your thing. You could, of course, watch your own replays. Not anymore, since Source 2 doesn't support replays at the moment. But they're still charging you the same money for what is basically a glorified Twitch version, since you can only watch the games live now.

That's abysmal. Will not be buying compendiums until this is sorted.
 

fresquito

Member
Sale prices are set by developer/publisher are they not...?
The same works for other stores, yet Steam sales are usually much worse than other stores'. Probably those other stores need the extra push and Steam doesn't. But one thing is clear, Steam is not the go to place for great deals anymore, even if it still is king because mindshare.
 

kewlbot

Member
it's amazing how irrelevant they are with games now
they aren't even involved with their games anymore, TF2 is basically running off of fan content and hardly anything else
the only thing they got going for them is Dota 2 which wasn't even an original idea in the first place
 

Helmholtz

Member
I do miss Valve's single player stuff, because it was pretty much all high quality content. But I can't say I hate the direction they've gone in. Dota 2 became my go-to multiplayer game and I have 3300 hours and counting.
I do think Steam could still use some work though. I've never really been impressed by the way it looks and functions. I also miss the legit sales they used to have. I feel like their 'big sales' have been weak the past couple years. Maybe my mind's playing tricks on me though.
 
Q

Queen of Hunting

Unconfirmed Member
I think valve just have a decent mind set.

Look at duke doom hell even Diablo and wow and starcraft.

They all have piss poor sequels (bar wow which has seen the company try qnd dissolve the project) the problem with sequels is after time there isn't more u can do. Borderlands is heading this way too.


Fans of doom want it like old doom then complain the old formula is tired and doesn't work now.

They want a same game then complain its to similar etc.

Theres no pleasing fans once a game has few sequels and i doubt half life 3 could make most people on reddit neogaf and others over the web feeling satisfied over sequel
 

Instro

Member
The same works for other stores, yet Steam sales are usually much worse than other stores'. Probably those other stores need the extra push and Steam doesn't. But one thing is clear, Steam is not the go to place for great deals anymore, even if it still is king because mindshare.

What other stores? The only stores I'm aware of having better deals are also key resellers.
 

Skinpop

Member
That's abysmal. Will not be buying compendiums until this is sorted.

why is it so hard for people to be a bit patient? reborn has been the main client for what, a couple of weeks. demanding that it's perfect out of the gates is unreasonable. we get almost daily patches with bug fixes and improvements. if reborn is stable and has feature parity with s1 dota within a month or two I think we all should be happy. after all this update is to ensure the long term success of dota 2. it's not about these few months of annoyances but rather about making the next 4-5 years the best possible.
 

Alo81

Low Poly Gynecologist
One of the big offenders for me now is not being able to buy a game bundle and give the games you already own to your friends. The Orange Box and other publisher bundles were amazing, and I had no hesitation in buying a bunch of games I already owned just for 2 new games on my account, and giving the rest to friends.

You can't buy and gift 2/4 packs either if you already own the game, which is also a stupid decision.

Whether bundles give gifts is decided by the publisher. My understanding is that valve has all of their bundles set to give gifts. Other publishers can choose not to.
 

Kaleinc

Banned
When i give someone my login account name he cant find me in the friends system, instead i have to give him an arbitrary nickname which isnt my account name and neither my nickname.. i dont understand that..
Noone but yourself should know your login name for security reasons.
 
The same works for other stores, yet Steam sales are usually much worse than other stores'. Probably those other stores need the extra push and Steam doesn't. But one thing is clear, Steam is not the go to place for great deals anymore, even if it still is king because mindshare.

Citation needed.
 
I wouldn't know about the servers used for Steamworks, but I'll believe that they go down going by the DOTA servers.

Also as far as I know replays of yourself and tournaments still work, although I do see comments about caster audio issues on that. There has been a big problem with tournament tickets providing not enough value though. I'm sure Valve is working on something that addresses that, but their lack of communication isn't helping like always.

There have definitely been issues with searching for matches, but it seems to be a server issue if it is still happening now. I have times where it is completely normal and when it takes ridiculously long I'll look on Reddit and there are more people with problems so I assume the servers are screwed up.

Going by comments, especially those on Reddit, gives a very negative impression of just about everything in DOTA 2. Before Reborn released and people could already play the beta and there weren't many complains. Then Valve made it the default and suddenly the interface is complete shit. Now you have a high ranking thread about hitboxes where people are being outraged while it is apparently the same as in the previous client. And for legit complains Valve seems to put out fixes and improvements very fast.

Not that I've played DOTA much in the past few weeks, but I haven't gotten any problems in the new client except for a server issue which I also got with the previous one. Overall there haven't been a whole lot of gamebreaking problems as far as I know. They might have released it a bit early, but I don't expect it to bring problems by the time the majors arrive. Even now most matches seem to go pretty smooth.

Their communication as always is still a problem, even when it is improving. For big complains they are very likely developing a solution, but these things, they take time.

They are competing with Steam in a lot of ways, just not with prices although it isn't even the case they are doing a bad job with that. In the latest sales Amazon hasn't done much better which was the most prominent competitor before. There is much more competition now, but I'd have a hard time pointing to one store that is consistently having better prices without resorting to ways that Valve can't use.

But they have done their best to provide more features to Steam and the Store. Now we have the refund system, the curators are a fairly recent thing, ratings on games, guides for how a game performs. They are competing.

They do have plenty of shortcomings though. Their communication with customers or fans is still pretty shit and they make many wrong decisions.
 

McBradders

NeoGAF: my new HOME
why is it so hard for people to be a bit patient? reborn has been the main client for what, a couple of weeks. demanding that it's perfect out of the gates is unreasonable. we get almost daily patches with bug fixes and improvements. if reborn is stable and has feature parity with s1 dota within a month or two I think we all should be happy. after all this update is to ensure the long term success of dota 2. it's not about these few months of annoyances but rather about making the next 4-5 years the best possible.

I am being totally patient. And to be fair I hadn't even realised that replays were unavailable but it's disappointing that the client has take a (temporary) step back especially as they're moving forward with a more vibrant competitive scene which makes for great spectating, live or otherwise :)
 
it's amazing how irrelevant they are with games now
they aren't even involved with their games anymore, TF2 is basically running off of fan content and hardly anything else
the only thing they got going for them is Dota 2 which wasn't even an original idea in the first place

To be fair, Dota is ridiculously relevant. And Global Offensive is doing nearly as well.
 
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