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SaintMadeOfPlaster · Dec 16, 2015

Here's a video by the Extra Credits guys about a new system in China that uses many common gameplay mechanics that we see in games to reinforce the idea of being an obedient citizen. It's a very terrifying idea.

Basically, by behaving like a patriotic citizen (outwardly praising the government, buying products that promote the lifestyle the government wants, etc.) you get points towards something a bit like our Credit Score in the United States. However, the higher your score, the more perks you get, like travel subsidies, commercial sales, faster internet speeds, and the like.

Where it gets completely fucked is that being friends with others that have low scores lowers your own score, which means people are breaking contact with people that aren't as "Chinese" as them.

What do you guys think? Are these fears an overreaction? Is this really as messed up as it sounds?

Also, not sure if this really belongs in the gaming section. If not, go ahead and lock me up, mods.

Deft Beck · Dec 16, 2015

I thought this was for a specific e-taller in China, not a systematic thing across the entire country.

Still, it does seem a little creepy.

AHA-Lambda · Dec 16, 2015

This sounds amazingly 1984.

It sounds fucking terrifying frankly :-s

finley83 · Dec 16, 2015

This was on BBC News (on Radio 4 at least) a month or so back.They had clips from interviews with Chinese people talking about how great it was and how it was way harder to get a date with someone if your credit score was low.

It sounds utterly terrifying.

Nanashrew · Dec 16, 2015

Holy hell is this terrifying.

Riki · Dec 16, 2015

I remember this being posted a while ago and people acting like it wasn't a big deal.
But this is trugly terrifying.
This is like that scene near the end of Toys where they train kids to be killers with games.

KenzinFive · Dec 16, 2015

About once a week, I get reminded that China is still really, really fucked up when it comes to certain things.

I guess this is that time of the week then. This is super creepy and Orwellian. Gamifying obedience and compliance to a totalitarian government and suppression of dissent is scary as shit.

There must be some sci-fi dystopian writer out there cursing themselves that a real-world government came up with this kind of twist on citizen control before they did.

Cymbal Head · Dec 16, 2015

The dystopia is coming.

ShinMaruku · Dec 16, 2015

Dystopia was always here. Also those systems only work for a certain while until people unconsciously feel fucked and well just look around you and you will see.

Tinfoilhatsron · Dec 16, 2015

What the literal fuck is this. This is terrifying.

we.are.the.armada · Dec 16, 2015

hahaha communist party of china don't give a fuuuuuck

and according to this, if you post pics of the anime you'll have citizen points docked from you so this kind of thing could slay america

Mass_Pincup · Dec 16, 2015

I remember we had a thread about this awhile back.

00ich · Dec 16, 2015

SaintMadeOfPlaster said:
Where it gets completely fucked is that being friends with others that have low scores lowers your own score, which means people are breaking contact with people that aren't as "Chinese" as them.

That's terrible game design. You are practically forcing ' players' out of the system. Outcasts will only socialize with outcasts, radicalizing each other even more.

Acerac · Dec 16, 2015

Holy shit, this is brilliant!

Absolutely evil, of course, but brilliantly done!

kinoki · Dec 16, 2015

How utterly evil. When can the west have it ready or is Tinder our equivalent?

HK-47 · Dec 16, 2015

Mass_Pincup said:
I remember we had a thread about this awhile back.

I remember a lot of people saying it was misinterpreted. But I sorta doubt Extra Credits would talk about it if it was.

KojiKnight · Dec 16, 2015

00ich said:
That's terrible game design. You are practically forcing ' players' out of the system. Outcasts will only socialize with outcasts, radicalizing each other even more.

This. Exclusionary tactics only make the problems worse in the long run.

ShinMaruku · Dec 16, 2015

KojiKnight said:
This. Exclusionary tactics only make the problems worse in the long run.

People who make exclusionary tactics never think in the long run.

toadsworth · Dec 16, 2015

China is now coming up with dystopian ideas faster than novelists!

Anyone from ChinaGaf know more about this?

jelly · Dec 16, 2015

Communist party fear losing their grip. They are not a nice government and will get even worse as more people push back against them. Didn't they just jail that human rights lawyer for a few social media posts criticising the government and put the hammer down on the world press trying to cover the story outside the court. I think it's not uncommon that they disappear people or stitch them up. It's a weird thing, corrupt, millionaires, billionaires. but control and communism of sorts. Is it just bad people versus bad people to become rich or is there actual communism at the top.

Calabi · Dec 16, 2015

I'm not too worried about this. We're already pretty obedient, compliant, and isolated I doubt this would make much difference in the west.

SaintMadeOfPlaster · Dec 16, 2015

00ich said:
That's terrible game design. You are practically forcing ' players' out of the system. Outcasts will only socialize with outcasts, radicalizing each other even more.

Right, but this will be mandatory in 2020. If a game has bad design you can just stop playing it. With this system, you're stuck with either dealing with the system working against you or saying "Fuck it, I guess I'll live how the government wants me to."

luffeN · Dec 16, 2015

I think the concecpt is a good idea, but the execution is definitely going to be horrible.

kavanf1 · Dec 16, 2015

Gamification as a concept is amazing and is really effective at getting people interested in things they normally consider boring (for example, mandatory annual training in the corporate world). Of course the issue isn't with gamification itself, but with how it is applied. If the China example is true, that is very troubling.

HK-47 · Dec 16, 2015

luffeN said:
I think the concecpt is a good idea, but the execution is definitely going to be horrible.

What about this concept is a good idea?

sinxtanx · Dec 16, 2015

Delightfully evil. I can see this becoming a VERY powerful tool for the Chinese government with how you could introduce new criteria for points depending on whatever needs to be "fixed".

HK-47 said:
What about this concept is a good idea?

"Get off fossil fuels to raise your Sesame score" would have tremedously positive impact.
But yeah, no way in hell will this system be used responsibly.

luffeN · Dec 16, 2015

HK-47 said:
What about this concept is a good idea?

I knew this would be hard to explain and I will probably suck at it. Take for example keeping the city clean. You get points throwing trash away / seperate trash. Or you get points for helping elderly crossing the street. You get points for behaving correctly. All weak examples probably, but you get the idea. If this can improve your community, then why not? But the version they describe is horrible.

Miracle · Dec 17, 2015

Just seen the video in another thread.

I don't even...I can't....HOLY SHIT!? Seriously this is one of the most awful things I have heard this year! This is crazy!

If the US ever even thinks about trying this themselves, I'm moving, I'm gone. This is NOT OK!

Otakumegane · Dec 17, 2015

You lose points for playing games.

You gain points by selling people out.

Horrifying.

Brohan · Dec 17, 2015

Damn what an insidious system.... this is scary shit.

Slashlen · Dec 17, 2015

HK-47 said:
What about this concept is a good idea?

Just imagine if it's used for social justice. Making racist or sexist remarks, making supporting statements regarding conservative candidates or groups like gamergate, buying material that objectifies women, or using anime avatars on forums could have real world consequences. Those seem like things GAF would generally get behind.

Breakbeat · Dec 17, 2015

From what I can tell, this kind of system would only really work in a group-status-obsessed culture like China's (or Japan's!). America is far too individualistic to have something like this make the same kind of impact.

That said, it does fit China like a glove, and it's probably gonna work like a charm.

Breakbeat · Dec 17, 2015

Slashlen said:
Just imagine if it's used for social justice. Making racist or sexist remarks, making supporting statements regarding conservative candidates or groups like gamergate, buying material that objectifies women, or using anime avatars on forums could have real world consequences. Those seem like things GAF would generally get behind.

So essentially an automated blacklist? Those don't get false positives or anything...

SaintMadeOfPlaster · Dec 17, 2015

Slashlen said:
Just imagine if it's used for social justice. Making racist or sexist remarks, making supporting statements regarding conservative candidates or groups like gamergate, buying material that objectifies women, or using anime avatars on forums could have real world consequences. Those seem like things GAF would generally get behind.

So a system like this is A-OK as long as it reinforces world views that you agree with? Or is this satire and I don't get it?

SonyToo! · Dec 17, 2015

China is yet again showing hard line socialists in the west that communism is a bad idea

Slashlen said:
Just imagine if it's used for social justice. Making racist or sexist remarks, making supporting statements regarding conservative candidates or groups like gamergate, buying material that objectifies women, or using anime avatars on forums could have real world consequences. Those seem like things GAF would generally get behind.

It's just a shame they all too often fail to see anything

Freshmaker · Dec 17, 2015

Tinfoilhatsron said:
What the literal fuck is this. This is terrifying.

All they have to do is call them "cheevos" and people will rebel.

mikefrails · Dec 17, 2015

There's a good idea in this somewhere.

Spring-Loaded · Dec 17, 2015

Been a while since something I've heard has given me legitimate chills

RX-78-2 said:
There's a good idea in this somewhere.

Oh, sure. I look forward to when this type of gamification is used positively.

Zornack · Dec 17, 2015

I don't see how this is an issue with gamification rather than an issue with that one stupid friends-lower-your-score system.

Slashlen · Dec 17, 2015

SaintMadeOfPlaster said:
So a system like this is A-OK as long as it reinforces world views that you agree with? Or is this satire and I don't get it?

A mix of satire and the realization that a lot of people would be ok with it if it were for things they supported.

Chaos2Frozen · Dec 17, 2015

SonyToo!;189568337 said:
China is yet again showing hard line socialists in the west that communism is a bad idea

I don't think China has been Communist in a long time.

Feep · Dec 17, 2015

I believe this to be a serious part of our future, for better or (surely) for worse.

SaintMadeOfPlaster · Dec 17, 2015

Chaos2Frozen said:
I don't think China has been Communist in a long time.

From what I understand it's a "free market" communistic society. Of course, I've never completely understood China so I may be wrong.

SonyToo! · Dec 17, 2015

Slashlen said:
A mix of satire and the realization that a lot of people would be ok with it if it were for things they supported.

Thank god you were joking, even though I can totally see ppl making similar posts if the thread wasn't so negative to the idea.

Nazo · Dec 17, 2015

Saw this earlier today. Its Orwellian and absolutely terrifying.

SonyToo! · Dec 17, 2015

SaintMadeOfPlaster said:
From what I understand it's a "free market" communistic society. Of course, I've never completely understood China so I may be wrong.

I'm the same as you, I see China as a hybrid of free market while retaining it's communist roots politically. Basically what UK,US, France etc would look like if they ever went communist (since we're too capitalistic to go full blown red)

QaaQer · Dec 17, 2015

Feep said:
I believe this to be a serious part of our future, for better or (surely) for worse.

It already is. What do people think money is for? Law + state violence? we've been 'gamified' for yonks. Land of the free, pfffft.

Compsiox · Dec 17, 2015

I watched Psycho Pass for the first time a month ago. I feel like I was meant to see it or something.

akira28 · Dec 17, 2015

Deft Beck said:
I thought this was for a specific e-taller in China, not a systematic thing across the entire country.

Still, it does seem a little creepy.

a little creepy?

say the pledge of allegiance 10 times and get 30 minutes of fast internet? damn.

HowZatOZ · Dec 17, 2015

Literally gearscore in the fucking real world. Holy shit. And you'll even be potentially barred from jobs and other outlets because of your score if you decide not to follow the brainwash babble.

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