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Do you like Suikoden? Do you like detailed worlds? You should play the Trails games.

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I made a blog post about this, but I want to get the word out, especially with Cold Steel releasing in this next week and the rest of the franchise's chances of localization hinging on how well it sells, so I'll chop it up and threadify it here. This is NOT a plug for my blog, and I don't want to sell it as such; I genuinely want to see more people become invested in this series and appreciate not only the great work that Falcom has done in creating it, but also the backbreaking localization effort XSeed went through to bring the games over to the west. I also really want to play the Crossbell games in English, so this isn't an entirely selfless endeavor, either, ahaha.

This is going to be a fair amount of words, but bear with me. I'm trying to sell you something great.

I'll frame this by saying that one of the major strengths of RPGs are in the worlds that we visit while we're playing them. In many ways they are a more interactive version of a fantasy or sci-fi novel, movie, or television series. A vast majority of people don't play RPGs only to crunch stats or min-max their characters - they play them to get lost in another world (and, of course, have fun playing a video game at the same time). One series that many JRPG fans know did this extremely well is Suikoden. A big part of Suikoden's appeal as a franchise was in its interconnected world, with each game taking place in a different chunk of that world. Since Suikoden I, the Suikoverse was set up to an extremely vast and diverse place, with each country having its own unique aesthetic and culture. The direction Konami took post Suikoden V, with an alternate continuity set in a different world, was so disappointing to so many because it abandoned a world that is extremely well cultivated and not yet entirely explored. Look at this map:
Map_Suikoden.jpg

Aside from the "Arcadia" nation, which I'm pretty sure is fan made, each game in the series is dedicated to exploring and fleshing out a different country. That means that with each game, the world as a whole becomes more realized, and as you're slowly introduced to and become familiar with different cultures and customs of each nation you grow to have a greater appreciation for the world as a whole.

Trails is highly appealing to me for many reasons, but perhaps my favorite thing about the game is in its highly detailed and intricately realized world design spanning multiple games, much like the Suikoden series. There is a storied history behind the Zemuria continent where each of the games take place, and each set of games in the series leads us to a different region of the continent, each with its own culture and atmosphere. Trails in the Sky has us in Liberl, a constitutional monarchy loosely based off of the country of Thailand, and throughout the first two games we are introduced to the different regions of the country and their various subcultures, such as the heavily industrialized region of Zeiss or the mercantile region of Bose. The game frequently makes mention of other nations, as well, with characters from these nations often playing a large role in the story and sporting marked differences from the Liberl natives in their attitudes and appearance. One of the big names dropped often is the Empire of Erebonia, an imperialistic, military minded country to the north of Liberl that seems to be a major world superpower. While Erebonia is referenced several times throughout the trilogy, it is only visited in passing, and even then we only see very tiny glimpses of its border regions close to Liberl.


The other sets of Trails games feature a new cast of characters and are set in other parts of the world, with each set of games telling its own self contained story while also painting a much larger picture of the Zemurian continent as a whole. Trails to Zero and Trails to Azure are the second set of Trails games, taking place in the region of Crossbell, which was only briefly mentioned in Sky but nonetheless plays an important role in the overall world setting, lying between the two superpowers of Calvard and Erebonia. Erebonia is the setting of the soon to be released Trails of Cold Steel. The appeal behind this is that we've only heard of these countries in passing despite them playing such a major role in the world's history and politics, and to finally see them realized with their own culture, politics, and characters is immensely satisfying after only being fed breadcrumbs with off-hand info and cameo appearances. To see the world slowly realized through the perspective of different characters from different regions gives it a feeling of authenticity that cannot be achieved through a single set of eyes.


Unlike Suikoden, the Trails series has multiple games set in the same nation, giving it even more time to flesh out that particular region of the Zemurian continent, allowing the player to become intricately familiar with its residents, culture, and history. No character, including each and every NPC, goes unnamed, and you'll often see them return throughout the various installments - you'll watch marriages struggle, you'll see little orphans learn and grow, and you'll meet old friends you made a game prior. This is to say nothing of the major characters (you'll know them if they have a portrait) who evolve gradually over the course of the story. Because the story is given so much time to be told over the course of multiple games, the characters' growth feels authentic and happens at a natural pace. You'll never see a character change their personality with a haircut.
Tales of the Abyss fans will get that reference.
I want to give specific examples, but I can't without spoiling the story, so you'll have to take my word for it - but the characters feel as if they have a lot of depth to them, and this is truly impressive considering that they can be fairly trope-y at times. It takes a special kind of writer to pull off a character that's both a JRPG stereotype and has multiple layers to their character.

Basically, if you like world building, if your favorite thing about RPGs is becoming invested in a fictional land, please give Trails a shot. It's not fair to judge it only by Sky's first chapter, as a large appeal of the series is largely based on how the different games build on one another. It may be a slow burn at first, as Sky FC is relatively low key and serves mostly as the building blocks for the other Trails games, but it has an extremely high payoff. FC is no slouch, either - it's a fine JRPG in its own right.

If you want to get an idea of just how big the scope of the known Zemurian continent is, here's Gu4n's sketch of the nations we either see directly or hear of throughout each set of games. This sketch is more complete than the official map linked above.


Edit 5/10/2017: Updated with a more detailed map, also by Gu4n.

I hope this thread isn't frowned upon. I just really love this series and I want to see more people become aware of it. Try it out - you won't regret it!

Where to start? Also are the games in the legend of heroes series before the Trails ones any good or even easy to get in English?
The Legend of Heroes before Trails are not related to Trails in any way, despite Sky FC technically being The Legend of Heroes VI. It shares a name in the same way that most mainline Final Fantasy entries do - a name and similar recurring themes and aesthetics, but that's all. I can't speak to the earlier Heroes games or their availability, but they're certainly on my radar now, after playing Trails. You do raise a good question, though:

Trails in the Sky is the entry point. First Chapter and Second Chapter are the beginning of the story, both of which have been released in English. The 3rd serves more as a bonus chapter or an epilogue to the previous two games. The 3rd is now out in English!

Trails to Zero and Trails to Azure are next, and take place after Sky. Neither have been translated.

Trails of Cold Steel is its own trilogy. The first two games are currently translated, and have been released for PS3/Vita, with PC ports on the way. The third is confirmed for a September 28th release in Japan, with no word on an official localization as of yet. Despite being the third set of games, it takes place concurrently to Zero and Azure, so it's technically as much of a sequel to Sky as those games are. It's possible to jump in here, as the stories are generally self contained, but it's recommended to play Cold Steel after Sky as there are many recurring references and characters. If you really must play the latest game in the series, going back to Sky after Cold Steel wouldn't ruin your enjoyment of either game, and you may even have a different perspective on Erebonia - Cold Steel's setting - while playing through Sky. But, again, Sky is really meant to be played first.

Timeline (Sora = Sky, Ao = Azure, Sen = Cold Steel):


I'll help

Trails in the Sky FC (<- start here)
Steam / GOG / US PSN / EU PSN

Trails in the Sky SC (the direct sequel to ^)
Steam / GOG / US PSN / EU PSN
And here are the links to purchase both Sky games!
 
I would also add, if you liked the Lunar and Grandia games back in the day, Trails is probably up your alley as well. Great NPC work and a world that feels lived in is a rarity in JRPGs IMO.
 
Yep, that was the reason why I'm looking forward to Trails of Cold Steel because of its lore! SC in particular threw in a ton of background info on other regions! I'm looking forward to see how Erebonia Empire plays out!
 
Just going to repeat what I said in another Trails thread.

Trails is the world-building & on-going story of Suikoden mixed with the character focus of Lunar with an upgrade system that's vaguely reminiscent of materia and combat with a splash of light SRPG presented with mediocre visuals & excellent music. It's paced like an epic novel series more than a videogame. It's definitely not for everyone but most people who like it, really like it.
 

Dega

Eeny Meenie Penis
I liked Suikoden for all the characters the base building recruiting those characters and for the big battles. The stories too of course but that other stuff sure was fun to me. But I don't think this game has most of that does it?
 
Suikoden is one of my favorite rpg series and Ive played every falcom game released in english except the trails series, I really need to play them. There on my eternal backlog.
 

Nottle

Member
Where to start? Also are the games in the legend of heroes series before the Trails ones any good or even easy to get in English?
 

Tigerfog

Member
The trails games are AMAZING. Love the stories, love the use of leitmotif in the soundtrack, and of course, the world building.
The games after Trails in the Sky kind of scale down on travelling, but they're still excellent.
 

Bog

Junior Ace
This is actually really helpful. Two of my Top 5 RPGs were referenced in the first two posts (Suikoden II and Lunar), so it's good to hear I'd probably like these.

Unfortunately I've just always put them in the same pile as all the other JRPGs I just randomly see pop up on PSN or at Best Buy, like that Atelier nonsense, or all the garbage on Vita.
 

Dio

Banned
Where to start? Also are the games in the legend of heroes series before the Trails ones any good or even easy to get in English?

Start with Trails in the Sky FC.

Yes, but there's various issues.

Bandai Namco's localization of 3, 4 and 5 (the Gagharv trilogy) have a bunch of bullshit wrong with them - the localization CHANGED the battle system for the worse, and the translation of them is filled with errors and not nearly as good as XSEED's.

Legend of Heroes goes all the way back to 1989, by the way.


This image was made before Azure and Cold Steel 1 & 2 existed.
 

Gu4n

Member
Where to start? Also are the games in the legend of heroes series before the Trails ones any good or even easy to get in English?

What's the best game to start with this series?

Trails in the Sky FC. It's available on PC via Steam/GOG and PSP/Vita via PSN, though the former has a revised translation. From there, you can move on to its second chapter - Trails in the Sky SC.
 

MrDoctor

Member
Where to start? Also are the games in the legend of heroes series before the Trails ones any good or even easy to get in English?
Trails First Chapter -> Second Chapter -> Cold Steel

There's the old PSP trilogy, but I hear they're really shitty remakes with equally bad translations. Legacy of the Wizard for NES is another one.
 

Gu4n

Member
Great OP, SolVanderlyn. You might want to use XSEED's recently released hi-res, English map of south west Zemuria.


Althought this is the most complete map of the continent in existence right now, my drawers actually contain a couple of sketches of what the entire continent may look like. By gathering hints from all seven games, I think I have a good impression of what the continent looks like - or at least the part that the Septian Church has been able to reach.

Trails in the Sky FC and SC are still pretty self-contained within the Kingdom of Liberl; it's not until The 3rd that Falcom starts to aggressively build the rest of Zemuria.
 

Rymuth

Member
Got a huge ass backlog but yes, I am planning on buying both Trails game (plus Cold Steel) in the future on Vita.
 
Great and informative post! I restarted FC a couple days ago after realizing I was in the final chapter and hadn't learned how to use and mix orbments properly, and also had taken such a long break since playing last that I was no shape to jump into SC.

Even in the prologue I am amazed at the world building. I see people mentioning towns I visited in my previous playthrough and know where they are taking about and why. Even the Liberl News issues mean a lot more upon replay. Even though the visuals aren't amazing there is a real emotional connection to the world that transcends flashy visuals IMO. While I love the attention to detail it also scares me because I feel inclined to read every piece of npc text and add on so much more play time to an already long game.

Yeah, the Suikoden comparison is apt where it concerns attention to detail in creating an organic game world.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Great OP, SolVanderlyn. You might want to use XSEED's recently released hi-res, English map of south west Zemuria.



Althought this is the most complete map of the continent in existence right now, my drawers actually contain a couple of sketches of what the entire continent may look like. By gathering hints from all seven games, I think I have a good impression of what the continent looks like - or at least the part that the Septian Church has been able to reach.

Trails in the Sky FC and SC are still pretty self-contained within the Kingdom of Liberl; it's not until The 3rd that Falcom starts to aggressively build the rest of Zemuria.
That image is the best early Christmas present ever. Ohhhhhh man (updating OP now - thank you!)

Edit: Those sketches sound extremely intriguing. Any chance you might share...? ;)
 
I approve of this thread. This series deserves to be on the same level of popularity as the JRPG classics everyone knows.

The quality of the characters, writing and world building is insane.

It has been (and continues to be) a victim of poor timing and events out of anyone's control in the west, but together we can fix this :) We need to make 3rd, Ao and Zero happen somehow.
 

Skilletor

Member
I have Trails in the Sky.

I'm enjoying it, though it starts out very slow.

Will I be able to play the games following this on Vita? Seems like these games are spread across multiple platforms. Kind of confusing.
 

Gu4n

Member
I have Trails in the Sky.

I'm enjoying it, though it starts out very slow.

Will I be able to play the games following this on Vita? Seems like these games are spread across multiple platforms. Kind of confusing.
Yes. You can play SC, Cold Steel and, next year, Cold Steel II all on Vita.
 

pbayne

Member
Great thread.

I have to admit, though, that I find Suikoden 1 kinda dull.

Really? Im playing it atm and I find it fantastic. Ive heard it gets a lot better at two though.

The trails games I think I would appreciate them more if the gameplay(the battle system) wasn't so boring. I mean I finished Trails in the Sky and I left was kind of thinking "eh it was decent" but I have no real urge to play the second chapter.
 

asagami_

Banned
Like someone already said, I guess that the reverse way can be true: I love the Kiseki series but still I haven't played Suikoden.Maybe I will try in a near future.

btw Zemurian continent must huge as hell if that map is incomplete xD
 

Dami3N

Member
This actually ended up selling me on Suikoden because I love Trails and never played Suikoden.

Well, im on the other wagon. Never played Trails, but LOVE Suikoden. Im traveling alot this christmas, sooooo.. a traveling game has now been bought :)
 

Bebpo

Banned
Yep. In my mind Kiseki is the spiritual successor to Suikoden with a bit of Xenogears. The political world building of Suikoden was amazing and it's a shame that series never had its final chapter that it was building up to.

Hopefully the Kiseki games keep selling well so there's a conclusion to all the world building that's been going on since 3rd.
 

Bebpo

Banned
This actually ended up selling me on Suikoden because I love Trails and never played Suikoden.

Pros:
Some of the best rpgs ever (and the best ones I&II and basically self-contained).

Cons:
You're going to be really upset when there's no conclusion.
 

WGMBY

Member
Been on my radar the last few weeks, but I feel obligated to clean up the other JRPGS I have stagnating before moving onto Trails. Persona 4 is the main one blocking me now, we'll see how much of it I can burn through on Christmas Break
 

Jiraiza

Member
Yep, it's pretty crazy how big the world is. Playing through Cold Steel and the small mentions to other games earlier in the series really gives you that sense of a nicely, fleshed out world.

Gonna run through the games in Japanese and then get the English copies and start over. Kind of kicking myself for not beating FC and SC earlier, but oh well. I really do want to play FC and SC Evolution for the VA work, so that's why I've been holding out on those two.
 

Taruranto

Member
Where to start? Also are the games in the legend of heroes series before the Trails ones any good or even easy to get in English?

I had my fun with the Gagharv Trilogy (PotMW especially), but I wouldn't recommencement them unless you are one of these people who devour jrpg one after another and can bear with a shoddy translation.
 

Dio

Banned
I didn't even know there was more than one Trails in the Sky. First time I see the full titles and they are confusing.

It's easier to think about in Japanese as the "Kiseki" games. Trails in the Sky is the 6th Legend of Heroes title.

Legend of Heroes VI: Sora no Kiseki First Chapter (Sora no Kiseki is Trails in the Sky)
Legend of Heroes VI: Sora no Kiseki Second Chapter
Legend of Heroes VI: Sora no Kiseki the 3rd
Legend of Heroes VII: Zero no Kiseki (Trails of Zero)
Legend of Heroes VII: Ao no Kiseki (Trails of Azure)
Legend of Heroes VIII: Sen no Kiseki (Trails of Cold Steel)
Legend of Heroes VIII: Sen no Kiseki II
Legend of Heroes VIII: Sen no Kiseki III

The first 3 take place in the same nation.
The next 2 take place in Crossbell.
The next 3 after that are set in Erebonia.
 

Neoweee

Member
The threads today have sold me on grabbing Cold Steel next week. If the choice is Vita TV or PS3, the choice is clearly PS3, right?

Yep. In my mind Kiseki is the spiritual successor to Suikoden with a bit of Xenogears. The political world building of Suikoden was amazing and it's a shame that series never had its final chapter that it was building up to.

EDIT: Whoops, mixed up the comment and thought he was referring to the 1~3 Trails games rather than Suikoden.
 

Dio

Banned
The threads today have sold me on grabbing Cold Steel next week. If the choice is Vita TV or PS3, the choice is clearly PS3, right?



What happened that it was never finished / they switched to a new sub-series rather than concluding?

The third Trails game introduces a ton of plot threads and concepts which are the basis for the games afterwards, like Zero/Azure and Cold Steel (the first Cold Steel doesn't really need it THAT much, as it's designed as a jumping in point for newcomers.)
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
The threads today have sold me on grabbing Cold Steel next week. If the choice is Vita TV or PS3, the choice is clearly PS3, right?



What happened that it was never finished / they switched to a new sub-series rather than concluding?
Suikoden veered off into spinoffs set in another universe, leaving the main universe in limbo, until the company renounced video games entirely. There were a good six games leading up to a massive finale in the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia, which played a hand in every previous game in the series in some way or another, especially the first three. Two major recurring enigmatic characters, Yuber and Pesmerga, knights clad in black who were hinted to be inhuman, were meant to play a major role in the final events of the series through their conflict. Even before this, though, the original producer (correct me if I'm wrong on his role) left the series during or after the third game, making them afraid to go forwards in time and instead delving into prequels. It went a bit off the rails after III, but it seemed to be finding its footing again with V, which was in many ways a return to form after the black sheep that Suikoden III was. You could still tell something was up, though, because Harmonia became less important and Yuber and Pesmerga vanished entirely. It still did a good job building the rest of its world, but the finale it was working towards felt less and less concentrated with each game after III. Then, well, yeah... Konami and all.

Trails has already passed the point where Suikoden started to falter, so in terms of world building, I personally think that it surpasses the Suikoden series at this point. Falcom shows no signs of slowing down, either. The true test will be if the rest of the games see a release in the west, which I'm sure they will - if they sell well.

And yes, PS3 would be the objectively better choice in that case.
 

hohoXD123

Member
It's easier to think about in Japanese as the "Kiseki" games. Trails in the Sky is the 6th Legend of Heroes title.

Legend of Heroes VI: Sora no Kiseki First Chapter (Sora no Kiseki is Trails in the Sky)
Legend of Heroes VI: Sora no Kiseki Second Chapter
Legend of Heroes VI: Sora no Kiseki the 3rd
Legend of Heroes VII: Zero no Kiseki (Trails of Zero)
Legend of Heroes VII: Ao no Kiseki (Trails of Azure)
Legend of Heroes VIII: Sen no Kiseki (Trails of Cold Steel)
Legend of Heroes VIII: Sen no Kiseki II
Legend of Heroes VIII: Sen no Kiseki III

The first 3 take place in the same nation.
The next 2 take place in Crossbell.
The next 3 after that are set in Erebonia.

Is anything lost by jumping from TitS 3rd straight to Trails of Cold Steel? Also, what's the general consensus of the Cold Steel series compared to TitS
 

Dio

Banned
Is anything lost by jumping from TitS 3rd straight to Trails of Cold Steel? Also, what's the general consensus of the Cold Steel series compared to TitS

You don't have a choice unless you know Japanese or want to wait a decade.

Cold Steel 1 is probably a bit of a weaker entry as far as Trails go, but YMMV. Some people rate 3rd below CS1 because of 3rd's short and dungeon crawling nature. The second Cold Steel game, however, is lauded by quite a few who played it as one of the best Trails titles of the series.

That's not to say CS1 is bad, it's great in fact. It's just overshadowed by the fact that the best games in the series are usually thought of as TitS Second Chapter, followed by Trails of Azure, followed by Trails of Cold Steel 2. I actually have a Japanese poll on me, and that one was made before CS2 came out so the rankings are SC followed by Azure followed by FC; and these games are fantastic and insta classics.
 

Verelios

Member
Already on it OP. Waited years for SC and it freaking delivered!

Got my Cold Steel LE from BB pre-ordered because why the fuck not?
 
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