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hesido · Mar 31, 2016

THEaaron said:
No. The architecture remains nearly the same thanks to x86. That is one of the points why PS4 development got significantly easier.

The other machine is just more powerful so you just align the experience to the horsepower that is available.

The situation is similar to every PC game compared to the PS4 version. And don't start with exclusives now. They aren't technically magical things that get more from 1.8TF. The visual fidelity from exclusive titles are mostly because of high production values in the content area.

And maybe, they know exactly what the target machine can do, and tailor the content to fit that exactly, and without being hindered by the PC API's. (This will probably change thanks to DX12 or maybe Vulkan, but the point stands, and even DX12 will still be lacking some console API features, and they are probably addressing this with ShaderModel 6.0.)

The main reason for PC api changes are to better make use of existing silicon which would otherwise be idle, and of course, you still cannot be hardware agnostic:
DirectX 12 Require Different Set of Optimization And Tweaks On AMD And Nvidia Cards

paradise_circus · Mar 31, 2016

If Sony is doing this right, I can see a new rebranding of the Console just to PlayStation. The games would be labeled as PlayStation games, because the PS4 would be forward compatible

iamcool388 · Mar 31, 2016

Is Cerny involved with the PS4K? He must be, right?

Though I am none too happy about this upgrade, at least with him in charge I will be able to maintain some faith that Sony would not mess this up.

valkyre · Mar 31, 2016

Sjefen said:
Fuck me, cant wait. Every 3 years is sweet spot for me.

we are still getting cross gen ports and you think this is the "sweet spot" for upgrades? If this is the case why not go full PC?

Auctopus · Mar 31, 2016

For people dumb enough to make Apple comparisons, Sony don't have anywhere near the same structure and eco-system to pull off the same thing.

Sony doesn't have anything like iCloud to transfer saved data so when people have to upgrade their consoles, they're going to have to move and re-download all their games and data manually. It won't be a smooth transition at all. Just wait for them to announce it's 500gb again so people have to upgrade to 1tb again.

Gravijah · Mar 31, 2016

paradise_circus said:
If Sony is doing this right, I can see a new rebranding of the Console just to PlayStation. The games would be labeled as PlayStation games, because the PS4 would be forward compatible

This would be the ideal for me. My friend brought this up recently and it would be a nice solution for things like backwards compatibility.

Oddvintagechap · Mar 31, 2016

Plinko said:
"Significant sacrifices."

Or Significant Gains.

30fps 1080 vs 30fps 4K... so? (Better textures, more draw distance bc more pixels)

Rocket League will still be fun. Xbox One players still have fun.

OléGunner · Mar 31, 2016

Frodo said:
Says the touchpad on the DS4, the push to have Vita as a Off-TV play of sorts, and Microsoft pushing for using tablets to have another screen control method at the beginning of the generation.

I don't think you can see the forest for the trees mate lol.
Those things are not correlated to NX, more tablets and mobile being more ubiquitous.

doofy102 · Mar 31, 2016

gundamkyoukai said:
I really don't think that is the case .
Devs are not going to spend time try to get everything out of PS4 .
At least not 3rd party devs , they will just drop something .
Like how we see games dropping certain things like res .
If ND had to drop UC4 MP to 900p to get 60 fps that should tell you something .

Pretty much every great game has a video of the director saying, "We're trying our hardest to squeeze every drop we can out of our main console." Yes, they do spend the time.

It's the secondary versions that get "the drop," you're talking about. So now, the PS4.5 will get the extra hard work, the PS4.0 will not get the extra hard work, the PS4.0 will get "the drop."

Mastperf · Mar 31, 2016

Frodo said:
Says the touchpad on the DS4, the push to have Vita as a Off-TV play of sorts, and Microsoft pushing for using tablets to have another screen control method at the beginning of the generation.

Pretty much everything was already "touch" by the time these systems came out. Also, Sony was already doing off-screen and second screen play with the PSP.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 31, 2016

Auctopus said:
For people dumb enough to make Apple comparisons, Sony don't have anywhere near the same structure and eco-system to pull off the same thing.

Sony doesn't have anything like iCloud to transfer saved data so when people have to upgrade their consoles, they're going to have to move and re-download all their games and data manually. It won't be a smooth transition at all. Just wait for them to announce it's 500gb again so people have to upgrade to 1tb again.

Most people still play there games on Disc.
Plus not everyone going to redownload games they already beat .
Saves are back up to the cloud if you have PSN+ so just buy it for 3 months until you get your new system .

Melchiah · Mar 31, 2016

Tntnico said:
Everyone talk about going PC because of that.

I'm the exact opposite ! It prevents me going PC. I love console, I bought Xbox 360, Elite and Slim models last year, every 3 years (average), so I'm glad this time new models give me better experience.

PS4 already is behind PC, especially regarding VR, so a new model is something fans or tech enthusiasts are looking for. Other will just stick with standard model until the next "true" new model. I don't see the problem.

It's not like a new smartphone model every year. We are talking about new model every 3 years. If you go the PC route, I suppose that you spend at least $200 every 3 years to keep your PC OK, am I wrong ?

I went to PC in 2003, when the 9700 Pro visuals became too hard to resist in comparison to what the PS2 provided. To my eyes the difference isn't that great these days, as the current consoles are capable of doing most of the modern visual effects, unlike the PS2 was back in the day.

Outside of MMOs, strategy games, and some indies, there isn't much on the PC side these days, that I wouldn't get on the consoles. Although, missing some of the indie horror games on PC pains me. Whereas the exclusives on the PS4 side are something that I couldn't be without. So, even if I had a problem with PS4K, moving to PC would be out of the question for me.

OléGunner · Mar 31, 2016

iamcool388 said:
Is Cerny involved with the PS4K? He must be, right?

Though I am none too happy about this upgrade, at least with him in charge I will be able to maintain some faith that Sony would not mess this up.

The funny thing I'm coming to conclude now is that Cerny is certainly a genius but a bit of a fraud.
He built and trumpeted a powerful PS4 system but within months everyone said the PS4 was a low end PC (all in efforts to be profitable).

All the GPU compute crap is not exactly coming to fruition now with this PS4K on the horizon.

If anything you should want more crazy Ken in order to build more powerful but not super exotic hardware from the get go.

THEaaron · Mar 31, 2016

paradise_circus said:
If Sony is doing this right, I can see a new rebranding of the Console just to PlayStation. The games would be labeled as PlayStation games, because the PS4 would be forward compatible

I think the same. In the future you have the PlayStation ecosystem with different machines. You get what you pay for and reach markets that would not have been tackled in any other way.

People will get over this.

Apt101 · Mar 31, 2016

Auctopus said:
For people dumb enough to make Apple comparisons, Sony don't have anywhere near the same structure and eco-system to pull off the same thing.

But they could going forward.

Frodo · Mar 31, 2016

OleGunner said:
I don't think you can see the forest for the trees mate lol.
Those things are not correlated to NX, more tablets and mobile being more ubiquitous.

Mastperf said:
Pretty much everything was already "touch" by the time these systems came out. Also, Sony was already doing off-screen and second screen play with the PSP.

Are you gonna deny PS Move and Kinect as well?

lol at people thinking Sony and MS don't worry or they do not pay attention to Nintendo. They are not fan boy warriors, they are companies. Of course they pay attention to the competition and steer course accordingly.

desosav · Mar 31, 2016

this is a no go for me. Sony should have waited for at least 2 more years before launching a new console.

If ps4k is indeed released on Q1 2017, 3.5 years after ps4 gamers should really boycott the console. I understand the urge to get the new and better version (i have the exact same urges) but it is a matter of ethics.

Last gen lasted 8 years which was long enough. This gen should last 5 years. Getting a new console every 3 years is no different than upgrading my PC every 3 years with 5 years old technology. In other words It is stupid...

alouette · Mar 31, 2016

All they want is, to announce full bc at an E3, too

Just kidding 😏

valkyre · Mar 31, 2016

doofy102 said:
Pretty much every great game has a video of the director saying, "We're trying our hardest to squeeze every drop we can out of our main console." Yes, they do spend the time, or rather, they would' have if nothing came along the replace the PS4.0.

It's the secondary versions that get "the drop," you're talking about. So, the PS4.5 will get the hard work, the PS4.0 will not get the hard work, the PS4.0 will get "the drop."

Both will get the drop. Devs wont spend enough time optimizing PS4 ports and at the same time they will be constrained by the common denominator's (ps4 hardware) that will stop them from going all out with PS4K.

It will be basically the same thing that happens with PC gaming today.

Assassins Creed 3 could have Unity graphics for PC all those years ago, and yet, due to PS360 all they got was upgraded resolution/textures and framerate... and under the hood they had a hardware with far far faaar greater potential.

Devs will always built their game with the weaker hardware in mind.

With PS4K, everyone loses. We will be in a constant cross gen phase...

Toadthemushroom · Mar 31, 2016

Apt101 said:
But they could going forward.

Probably not, PS4 was never set up to be a scalable platform, which is why the New PS4 doesn't give developers performance improvements for free like the PC, iOS and Android would, and it's more like N3DS in that games will need to be updated with patches or supported explicitly.

Likewise Sony can't release a new form factor like a PS Vita 2 and have it run all PS4 games immediately like how the iPad and iPhone's unified software and hardware architecture allow for. So this is why it's more plausible that PS4.5 won't get a new CPU architecture boost to AMD Zen, because it would break binary compatibility with games. N3DS stayed with ARM11/ARM v6, despite tripling core count and clock speed for that same reason.

So it's up to publishers whether their teams spend resources on PS4.5 specific improvements or not, but at the same time everything is nicely controlled so we won't see games get broken.

---

Nintendo has been hinting at building a scalable platform with a combined software-hardware architecture for the NX, so that will be interesting to see whether it allows for hardware upgrades and new form factors more in line with what we see on PC/iOS/Android than N3DS and PS4.5.

Dictator93 · Mar 31, 2016

This honestly sounds terrible.

Confused Cheeseburger · Mar 31, 2016

Jimbob Smalls said:
Looking at Gaf, this sort of semi make sense.

You have the 60fps or bust guys and those who couldn't care less. This machine could maybe cater for both crowds.

That's the problem though. GAF is a niche echo chamber. That's what it always was. For most people not spending their days on GAF getting a solo 30 fps is enough. I think the weirdly optimistic idea that both sides will get what they want is a little baffling.

I really got wonder if some of the sentiment is purely self-interest. All of this is still speculation of course, I think the PS4K exists but the dimensions of its power are yet to determined. That said, if this thing is really twice as powerful more or less, the spec divide will dilute the purpose of having a closed system for optimization. PS4K players may end up like new 3DS players, a system that doesn't realm justify itself or PS4 vanilla players will receive increasingly unoptimized versions. Joe gamer will notice and think "what the hell". The cost of a console has affected both parties, the buyers and manufacturers. Dropping down $400+ on a gamebox while the general cost of living is increasing while wages stubbornly stagnate is a tough pill to swallow. Likewise, R&D/manufacturing for s console is reaching amazingly high levels. So here come Sony then, having already gotten a cool $400, also asking for a $500 re-up and another $400 VR buy-in.

People here are saying, phones and TVs have this incremental model, but the set it and forget model for consoles is 100% crucial. It's made consoles viable for years and it's made this generation financially viable because the PC is capable of more, but the unified console approach has made it easier to optimize and develop for. I just think Sony might seriously shoot themselves in the foot trying to market this as a PS4 Ultra when we haven't even hit 3 years yet. Playstation is just coming out of the red on the back of many current supporters, this move could backfire and negate a decent portion of good will they have been riding lil no one else this generation.

THEaaron · Mar 31, 2016

Auctopus said:
For people dumb enough to make Apple comparisons, Sony don't have anywhere near the same structure and eco-system to pull off the same thing.

Ehm. You have to start somewhere. PSN is a good place to do that. You have the PSN and can access PSVITA and PS4 content on it. It doesnt matter if there is another machine or a more powerful iteration of another machine getting acces to that system additionally.

orava · Mar 31, 2016

Next, yearly console updates. After that, fall and spring refreshes!

EricTheCleric · Mar 31, 2016

iamcool388 said:
Is Cerny involved with the PS4K? He must be, right?

Though I am none too happy about this upgrade, at least with him in charge I will be able to maintain some faith that Sony would not mess this up.

I guess that means no Knack 2...

Do you really want a better PS4 rather than Knack 2?

missile · Mar 31, 2016

Was WipEout 4K on the list? c'mon

IndustryX · Mar 31, 2016

If there's some type of trade in deal I'll get it.

Melchiah · Mar 31, 2016

desosav said:
this is a no go for me. Sony should have waited for at least 2 more years before launching a new console.

If ps4k is indeed released on Q1 2017, 3.5 years after ps4 gamers should really boycott the console. I understand the urge to get the new and better version (i have the exact same urges) but it is a matter of ethics.

Last gen lasted 8 years which was long enough. This gen should last 5 years. Getting a new console every 3 years is no different than upgrading my PC every 3 years with 5 years old technology. In other words It is stupid...

I bought the PS4 at launch, and I'm not against an upgrade in the middle of the generation. It doesn't retroactively diminish the 2½ years of good gaming experiences I've already had, nor does it prevent me from getting those experiences on the system I already have. So, I have no need reason to boycott anything.

doofy102 · Mar 31, 2016

THEaaron said:
I think the same. In the future you have the PlayStation ecosystem with different machines. You get what you pay for and reach markets that would not have been tackled in any other way.

People will get over this.

Will they? It feels like the big 3 want to do what Apple did, and sell this change to the masses with the excuse, "Well this is what Apple did," without understanding the differences between Apple's products and the world of video games.

zkorejo · Mar 31, 2016

desosav said:
this is a no go for me. Sony should have waited for at least 2 more years before launching a new console.

If ps4k is indeed released on Q1 2017, 3.5 years after ps4 gamers should really boycott the console. I understand the urge to get the new and better version (i have the exact same urges) but it is a matter of ethics.

Last gen lasted 8 years which was long enough. This gen should last 5 years. Getting a new console every 3 years is no different than upgrading my PC every 3 years with 5 years old technology. In other words It is stupid...

I completely agree with this.

At this moment, I am simply not interested in the same old cycle of getting a new console and waiting for actually good games to play. PS4K will probably have a library worth investing for by the end of 2017 or 2018. Who knows.. maybe Sony will come out and announce PS4.75 bs in 2019.

If we are expected to upgrade every 3 years (with 1st year of waiting and delays of actual games to play), why shouldnt people just game on PC instead.

Mastperf · Mar 31, 2016

Frodo said:
Are you gonna deny PS Move and Kinect as well?

lol at people thinking Sony and MS don't worry or they do not pay attention to Nintendo. They are not fan boy warriors, they are companies. Of course they pay attention to the competition and steer course accordingly.

Kinect and Move are absolutely stolen from Nintendo, but the things you previously listed were not. I was only commenting on your examples and not on the dismissal of Nintendo innovations.

SPCTRE · Mar 31, 2016

Looking forward to buying one, so my Destiny TTK themed PS4 can be relegated to secondary PS4 status.

Come to think of it, maybe I'll just put it up on a shelf as a display kind of thing.

Melchiah · Mar 31, 2016

OleGunner said:
The funny thing I'm coming to conclude now is that Cerny is certainly a genius but a bit of a fraud.
He built and trumpeted a powerful PS4 system but within months everyone said the PS4 was a low end PC (all in efforts to be profitable).

All the GPU compute crap is not exactly coming to fruition now with this PS4K on the horizon.

If anything you should want more crazy Ken in order to build more powerful but not super exotic hardware from the get go.

I wonder how did you came up with that idea? It's already being done by the likes of Naughty Dog and Ubisoft.

west · Mar 31, 2016

valkyre said:
This is such fucking bullshit...

I dont get why Sony wants to go down that damn path?

Why split the ps community in 2, to second rate and first rate customers??
What is the life expectancy of PS4?
What is the life expectancy of PS4K?
Are we going into a permanent "cross gen" cycle?
Why should I keep playing on my console, if they pretty much transform their business to the PC model completely??

I honestly cant believe Sony, having such success with the PS4 at the moment is going through this.

They want to go the "games as service" path for several reasons as I see it. Traditional generational shifts are painful and risky for everyone involved (see PS3, Xbox One.), so rather they just want consumer commit to PSN and Live ecosystems (NX too?) with evolving hardware. It also allows developers to ease into more powerful hardware, similar to how we got a lot of remasters this gen. I bet this will be the norm for early 4K stuff as well.

So yes, I suspect the upgrade cycle will continue forever if the 4K is succesfull. They might call it the PS5 but it will effectively be the next-next version of the PS4. Same OS core and all the same software you buy on PSN. The common architecture lets them be forever backwards compatible at little to no extra cost.

Moreche · Mar 31, 2016

Be always wanted consoles to go this route.
I can sell or put my PS4 upstairs as a media centre and buy this new one.
I'm also hoping we get some exclusives for it such as Arma3 that wouldn't be possible on the current PS4.
I seriously can't see why people wouldn't want this. We purchase iPhones and iPads for over £700, subsidised I know.

doofy102 · Mar 31, 2016

valkyre said:
Both will get the drop. Devs wont spend enough time optimizing PS4 ports and at the same time they will be constrained by the common denominator's (ps4 hardware) that will stop them from going all out with PS4K.

It will be basically the same thing that happens with PC gaming today.

Assassins Creed 3 could have Unity graphics for PC all those years ago, and yet, due to PS360 all they got was upgraded resolution/textures and framerate... and under the hood they had a hardware with far far faaar greater potential.

Devs will always built their game with the weaker hardware in mind.

With PS4K, everyone loses. We will be in a constant cross gen phase...

Shit. You're right. We won't be getting an "all-out by dev on a console" game after Uncharted 4.

THEaaron · Mar 31, 2016

doofy102 said:
Will they? It feels like the big 3 want to do what Apple did, and sell this change to the masses with the excuse, "Well this is what Apple did," without understanding the difference between Apple's products and the world of video games.

Well you don't have to look at Apple for this. You could also see Steam as a closed ecosystem that can be accessed with different hardware combinations. Not everyone in this ecosystem can play Witcher 3 but everyone has enough content to play with their machine.

I think it is really smarter to compare PSN with Steam instead of Apples ecosystem.

Herb Alpert · Mar 31, 2016

I imagine that the PS4 just wasn't powerful enough for an acceptable VR experience.
Good VR is expensive. At the end of the day, all 3 major players will be in the same price ballpark.

ZombAid82 · Mar 31, 2016

Well,
2016 is for sure the "FuckYouYear":
Fuck you Sony
Fuck you Konami
Fuck you Capcom
Did I forget somebody important?

doofy102 · Mar 31, 2016

THEaaron said:
Well you don't have to look at Apple for this. You could also see Steam as a closed ecosystem that can be accessed with different hardware combinations. Not everyone in this ecosystem can play Witcher 3 but everyone has enough content to play with their machine.

I think it is really smarter to compare PSN with Steam instead of Apples ecosystem.

Yeah, that's right, sorry about that.

Always-honest · Mar 31, 2016

i think it's a bad idea (could hurt the brand). But i'll be buying it.

Mastperf · Mar 31, 2016

doofy102 said:
Shit. You're right. We won't be getting an "all-out by dev" game after Uncharted 4.

I was thinking the same thing earlier. No matter what you buy, it will always be dragging the last system behind it like a ball and chain. When they finally stop supporting the older system and it's time for your hardware to shine, a new console is released and you become the ball and chain.

wabjc · Mar 31, 2016

I haven't even had my ps4 for two years yet, but I do get why people wouldn't be happy with this. I get that Sony wanted a system that wouldn't want to be sold at a loss and I get that doing so meant the ps4 wasn't as powerful as people wanted. But that's the nature of doing a console at profit. I'm happy with this I've gotten all the other PS versions so for me this is no different.

Machina · Mar 31, 2016

Did console generations just become much, much shorter?

Menaged · Mar 31, 2016

Something I don't understand with the Apple comparisons -

Apple makes truckloads of money on each phone they sell, so they have an incentive to release these upgrades.

I doubt Sony will make big bucks by releasing a more powerful PS4 for $400.
The PS4 was sold roughly at cost during it's launch period, and now at $350 I guess they're making a profit.
But a new, more powerful, more expensive one for $400 - I find it hard to believe the reason for releasing it is to make money on hardware.

And that's why I don't really understand this move...

wapplew · Mar 31, 2016

valkyre said:
Both will get the drop. Devs wont spend enough time optimizing PS4 ports and at the same time they will be constrained by the common denominator's (ps4 hardware) that will stop them from going all out with PS4K.

It will be basically the same thing that happens with PC gaming today.

Assassins Creed 3 could have Unity graphics for PC all those years ago, and yet, due to PS360 all they got was upgraded resolution/textures and framerate... and under the hood they had a hardware with far far faaar greater potential.

Devs will always built their game with the weaker hardware in mind.

With PS4K, everyone loses. We will be in a constant cross gen phase...

Yup, that's my worst fear of forward compatible bullshit.

Hackbert · Mar 31, 2016

oh dear. now way around this now it seems huh. i feel weird about it. if i were younger i would be more frustrated cause of the cost, of course i want the new shiny console i guess. will see how this plays out. and yeah, all for a trade in program. thinking about selling the console now before the price plummets. but i need it for a few upcoming and just out games.

pezley · Mar 31, 2016

Mayne it's just a way to always have a premium console. Previous generations, after 2 - 3 years the tech was old and there was no high end option available. Now there is.

Want to play your games high end ? Buy the + model. Happy with average performance, but the normal model

doemaaan · Mar 31, 2016

After playing the FFXV demo, I would really like it if the resolution was finer and the frame rate was higher (at the very least stable 30fps). I have no qualms with the graphics/art, I just want higher resolution and better frame rate. I'm willing to shell out for a ps4k if my FFXV can improve on that.

Yea, it's just a demo and "doesn't reflect the final product", but I'm sure it's damn close.

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew · Mar 31, 2016

ZombAid82 said:
Well,
2016 is for sure the "FuckYouYear":
Fuck you Sony
Fuck you Konami
Fuck you Capcom
Did I forget somebody important?

Fuck you Microsoft?

I still don't get why Sony is the only one getting hate (or love). Both console owners are doing this. Both should be equally loved or hated.

Also,:

Fuck you WB
Fuck you Ed Boon

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