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Thunderbolt | External GPU's are go!

M

MRORANGE

Member
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So Thunderbolt 3 is probably one of the most important tech that will allow us to use one cable that supports many standards with insane amounts of bandwidth, around 40GB/s to put this into context USB 3 can only handle around 10GB/s. Not to mention being able to run one cable and power two 4k monitors at 60hz is mind boggling. Basically Thunderbolt is what Firewire/USB should have been in the first place.

Fz6XbaB.jpg
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Why does this matter to gaming?

Simply put, you will be able to use Desktop class GPU's such as a GTX 1080 with your laptop if it has Thunderbolt 3. While this isn't new, the limitations of Thunderbolt 1 & 2 saw bandwidth limitations, other manufactures created their own proprietary formats that only worked with certain products using PCIE which didn't work well. Thunderbolt 3 overcomes these problems and with it's tech based on PCIE it's exactly like shoving a desktop GPU into your laptop.

While you could use a laptop GPU, it's not the same thing, even with dedicated mobile GPU's are nowhere near their desktop counterparts. In testing these Thunderbolt GPU's were on par with their desktop counterparts. This is great news, You could now buy a laptop which all have decent CPU's and not worry about the GPU at all, You could even buy a ultra thin laptop and still be able to game on it, as long as you have Thunderbolt 3. This tech could potentially replace your gaming PC.

Linus Tech Tips gives a good video on Thunderbolt GPU's.


Advantages:
- Laptops can now use external GPU's that are portable.
- Laptop life cycles are greatly improved (upgrade 5+ years)
- Power high end displays that HDMI can't.
- Desktop class performance that beats any Laptop GPU.
- Cheaper in the long-run


Disadvantages:
- Support ranges for devices and GPU's
- Laptops have slight issues between switching from integrated/dedicated/external GPU's



Products so far:

Razer Core
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Gigabyte GPU with built in Thunderbolt support.
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The future is exciting, imagine using your ultra-thin work laptop, taking it home and just plugging in one cable to play games and access your devices and being able to game on it at 1080p/4K.
 
Ah, you got me excited there for a second. No sign of Razer core in the UK and it's a crazy price.


I really want something to use with my XPS 13.
 
I'm interested in getting a setup like this to replace my desktop at some point, but my main questions are:

A) Are there any inherent potential performance degradations using a Thunderbolt 3 cable over a standard PCI connection, all other things equal? From what I gathered I don't think so since PCIe's bandwidth is pretty much on par with TB3, so unless you have a bunch of other shit going on in that pipe there shouldn't be a difference, but I also haven't seen too many benchmarks of this tech being used in the wild.

B) Are the CPUs used in high-end-but-not-necessarily-built-for-gaming laptops (like the Surface Pro 4 i7 or Razer Blade Stealth) fast enough to not be a bottleneck vs. a desktop-class CPU?
 
The Razer Core dock alone costs $500 and then you need to buy a graphics card in addition to that. Until Thunderbolt 3 becomes ubiquitous and there are cheaper docks, this isn't a realistic option for most people. Yeah you can get a $1,000 laptop with Thunderbolt 3, spend $500 for that dock, and then an additional $500 for a good graphics card, or you can build your own PC that's just as powerful for $1,000, and then still have money left over to buy a good laptop for your mobile needs.
 
The dream is having a small formfactor desktop with 3+ HDDs on my desk, a NUC under my TV, and a laptop/tablet that I can transport a 1080Ti between all three. Hopefully they work out the current lack of TB3 enabled devices at full speed.
 
Suzushiiro said:
I'm interested in getting a setup like this to replace my desktop at some point, but my main questions are:

A) Are there any inherent potential performance degradations using a Thunderbolt 3 cable over a standard PCI connection, all other things equal? From what I gathered I don't think so since PCIe's bandwidth is pretty much on par with TB3, so unless you have a bunch of other shit going on in that pipe there shouldn't be a difference, but I also haven't seen too many benchmarks of this tech being used in the wild.

B) Are the CPUs used in high-end-but-not-necessarily-built-for-gaming laptops (like the Surface Pro 4 i7 or Razer Blade Stealth) fast enough to not be a bottleneck vs. a desktop-class CPU?
Click to expand...

FPS lost is marginal, like 2/3 fps in test cases so far.... Most modern laptop CPU's are decent but there will be some bottleneck, but here is one example of what you can achieve:

8RoBvfK.jpg
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Josman said:
Just for context, what's PCI-E 3.0 and SATA 6's total bandwidth?
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PCI-E 3.0 is 16GB/s
 
Hmm. Interested to see what this can do for desktop gaming and other applications.

Alleviate space concerns (for larger cards); improve airflow; not limited to the one dedicated gaming rig; supplement consoles (potentially); artsy apps (3D, photo, video, etc).

On the laptop side, I'd be concerned with power consumption and pricing. Eventually [now, infinity) it'll be good, I'm sure.
 
Yes, my body is ready! With this we are one step closer to a future I want. A Windows 10 Mobile phone with Continuum (or iOS/Android if they copy the feature) that I can connect to a dock or lapdock (HP Elite x3 like) and it uses an external GPU to power games. Now we just need powerful enough CPUs in phones.

Either way, I'm happy. Now more products need to come out and use the standard.
 
blastprocessor said:
OP:

Dell have this.

Alienware Graphics Amplifier

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/alienware-graphics-amplifier

Not sure it's thunderbolt though.
Click to expand...

Proprietary unfortunately.

PeterOliver said:
Why the hell is that thunderbolt 3 cable going from the motherboard to the gpu that is already plugged into the motherboard?
Click to expand...

Imagine plugging that cable into your laptop to do some rendering and still using it with your PC at the same time, not possible yet.... but imagine.
 
MRORANGE said:
So Thunderbolt 3 is probably one of the most important tech that will allow us to use one cable that supports many standards with insane amounts of bandwidth, around 40GB/s to put this into context USB 3 can only handle around 10GB/s.
Click to expand...


Noooo, those are gigabits per second, not gigabytes.
 
So i guess we will soon see the apple monitor refresh with discrete graphics built in.
 
This is a pretty good review of the Razer Core with a bonus of using it with the Dell XPS 15 and benchmarks on that.

http://www.ultrabookreview.com/10761-razer-core-review/

21JXFzk.jpg



AMD have also expressed support of Thunderbolt 3 GPUs with XConnect:
http://www.amd.com/en-gb/innovations/software-technologies/technologies-gaming/xconnect

Anandtech have some pretty good info here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10133/amd-xconnect-external-radeons

Ephe3Bg.jpg



Other than Razer, PowerColor have announced that they'll be releasing a GPU enclosure.
http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/93317-powercolor-devil-box-another-amd-xconnect-enclosure/
However it looks really tacky.

PFe59GV.jpg
 
I'm probably missing the point but if you have to hook your laptop up to a stationary desktop GPU, isn't that eliminating the whole point of a laptop?

Like, what are the advantages over a normal desktop PC build?
 
How is the compatibility of the Razer Core with different brands of laptops?

Stevey said:
I'm probably missing the point but if you have to hook your laptop up to a stationary desktop GPU, isn't that eliminating the whole point of a laptop?

Like, what are the advantages over a normal desktop PC build?
Click to expand...

That you can unhook it, and take you laptop away.
 
Stevey said:
I'm probably missing the point but if you have to hook your laptop up to a stationary desktop GPU, isn't that eliminating the whole point of a laptop?

Like, what are the advantages over a normal desktop PC build?
Click to expand...

Why buy a desktop if you can get pretty much the same performance with a laptop?

I can't chuck my desktop in a bag and use it on a train.
 
Yep, this is pretty awesome. Been waiting for more support for eGPU enclosures. Plan on getting a Skull Canyon + eGPU enclosure.
 
You forgot the added cost as a Disadvantage due to the high price Intel charges per chip and how many chips you need to get it working.
 
Considering the GPU is often one of the most expensive parts of the desktop and the eGPU enclosures are often a bit on the expensive side due to being a niche product, you'll probably end up saving fairly little compared to just having a desktop system built on an Ivy Bridge or Haswell setup which should be fairly cheap on the used market yet still run everything nicely.

To me it makes more sense to have a desktop for gaming and a separate laptop or iPad to carry around.
 
bits mate, not bytes.

it's 5GB per second based on your numbers. is that its total maximum up and down? (pcie 3.0 is 32GB per second if you calculate it that way)
 
Stevey said:
But you're not getting that performance unless its hooked up to the desktop GPU, right?
Click to expand...

Yes, so I can have that performance and play games at home, but also have the option to take the laptop to college or work. Something I couldn't do with a desktop.
 
DonMigs85 said:
So it's useful for peeps that don't have the space for a monitor + desktop setup as well
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So the GPU just plugs straight into the laptop without it's own PSU or MOBO?
If that is the case that picture in the OP of a GPU plugged into a MOBO is throwing me off.
 
Stevey said:
But you're not getting that performance unless its hooked up to the desktop GPU, right?
Click to expand...

But you're not going to be playing on a desktop PC on a train, coffee shop etc are you?

Having a laptop with a high resolution screen and 6+ hour battery life is also useful for people whose computer isn't just an expensive console.

Stevey said:
So the GPU just plugs straight into the laptop without it's own PSU or MOBO?
If that is the case that picture in the OP of a GPU plugged into a MOBO is throwing me off.
Click to expand...

Well the GPU enclosure will have a built in power supply that needs to plugged into the wall.

OP's pic is showing a motherboard with Thunderbolt 3 built in. I'm not sure of the utility really, but it's possible to also use an external GPU on a desktop PC.
 
Not really understanding the situation, but isn't the bandwidth pretty low considering the multi 100GB/s rating of performance parts?
 
Stevey said:
So the GPU just plugs straight into the laptop without it's own PSU or MOBO?
If that is the case that picture in the OP of a GPU plugged into a MOBO is throwing me off.
Click to expand...
Well the dock itself provides power to the GPU, and it does have to plug into a power outlet.
 
Cool that the bandwidth is there now.

Is latency an issue? What kind of latency could we see with an internal GPU vs external through thunderbolt?
 
Have one of the Alienware external GPU docks at work as part of our "portable" VR kit. Works really well. We run a GTX 1080 with a 13 inch laptop and run high end VR really smoothly.

Unfortunately the Alienware solution is proprietary. Would have much preferred one of these thunderbolt solutions but they weren't ready in time for us. As I understand the Razer Core can also supply power and has an Ethernet port which the AGA doesn't.

The big downside is that if you try to use the laptop's built in 3200x1800 display you bottleneck the bandwidth and the framerate tanks. Works best if you use external monitors only and don't send any video signal back down the cable. This external monitor requirement hampers our portable ambitions somewhat although you can always use the internal display to get started then just close the laptop once VR is up and running.
 
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