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Jimquisition: How Consoles Broke The 'Play Now' Promise (Oct. 17, 2016)
- Thread starter L~A
- Start date
graywolf323
Member
did it not have a preload?
Mass_Pincup
Banned
But they don't consider themselves in competition with the PC market.
Will watch later but that's a filmsy premise.
Will watch later but that's a filmsy premise.
OttoSporteman
Member
It's not a consoles problem. There is pre-load on Xbox Live, and I guess on PSN too (never bought a digital game on release date on PS4).
But PSN speeds are SLOW, which is a shame, considering it's a paid service.
But PSN speeds are SLOW, which is a shame, considering it's a paid service.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Plug and played died when online became such a prominent feature.
If you want true plug and play you need an offline console.
If you want true plug and play you need an offline console.
Oh come on, that's really not the point.
DOOM (PS4) was a piss-take. I was so excited getting the game, only to find it needed to download a 20GB+ patch. On my 3.5mbps connection (soon to be upgraded finally!) it took over a day! Of course I could play it without the patch, but it played like a buggy mess without the patch, with tearing all over the show. And no online.
I don't know what went wrong - 360's patches were small and efficient and downloaded in seconds even on a slow connection. Both PS4 and XBO have extremely bloated and inefficient patches.
It was the beauty of cartridge-based consoles - games were instant and you could jump in without any waiting.
Slow for some, likely due to location. It is not slow for everyone.
And how Xbox games don't install from disk, but rather download entire game from internet during the "disk install" is a much greater offense, IMO...
TBH I'd blame the Western marketplace starting with US. Those markets clearly embraced idea of PC gaming at console prices, multiplayer and titles like CoD. This really all happened with 360 and to a lesser extent PS3.
Now it's all in. Big games with huge patches that have to install into an arguably too small HDD. DLC content that's downloaded whether you want to buy it or not.
To be fair I'd also rope in the publishers who target release dates first resulting in too many games with day 1 patches to make launch timeframe.
The console makers ironically I'd argue more followed the market than led it here.
Still, agree with main point. Plug and play is mostly long gone on PS/MS platforms for the moment and the foreseeable future.
Now it's all in. Big games with huge patches that have to install into an arguably too small HDD. DLC content that's downloaded whether you want to buy it or not.
To be fair I'd also rope in the publishers who target release dates first resulting in too many games with day 1 patches to make launch timeframe.
The console makers ironically I'd argue more followed the market than led it here.
Still, agree with main point. Plug and play is mostly long gone on PS/MS platforms for the moment and the foreseeable future.
Flame Lord
Member
RichiRamjag
Member
They're both iffy at times. But PSN has been pissing me off more than Xbox lately. You can manually restart the download and that helps at times, but it shouldn't be required in the first place.
Caayn
Member
The only time I get fast speeds on PSN is past 01:00 and before the morning begins. Outside of that timeslot PSN is slow.
Other services such as Steam, Origin, XBL (although XBL could certainly improve) give me fast speeds throughout the entire day. PSN is shit when it comes to consistency and speed.
wapplew
Member
http://www.twitch.tv/easyallies/v/94254908
Modern console experience.
Modern console experience.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
I didn't update my games on Xbox for a while. Good lord. I had to download like a full 50GB game worth of updates just to get to the start menus.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Is it not possible to skip day one patches and get playing the single player? I suppose theres usually an install as well which takes a while.
chronic_archaic
Member
I don't get where he says that the Xbox One doesn't have any progress bars for installation. It tells you exactly how far it is into downloading at any given time, though Jim sounded kinda ignorant of the console itself entirely.
Chû Totoro
Member
Plug & Play is an awesome feature I wish would still be here... when I put Mafia 3's disc in my PS4 I started to play like 15 minutes after wtf !?!?
I'm really hoping for carts with NX (even if we'll probably still have loading screens, they'll be way shorter than what we have on PS4/Xbox One and even Wii U most of the time).
Sad, just sad... for having more "credibility" console gaming industry made weird decisions. I was ok with it being just games (or toys).
I'm really hoping for carts with NX (even if we'll probably still have loading screens, they'll be way shorter than what we have on PS4/Xbox One and even Wii U most of the time).
Sad, just sad... for having more "credibility" console gaming industry made weird decisions. I was ok with it being just games (or toys).
Gentleman Jack
Member
I'd like some receipts on Jim's suggestion that developers don't compress the data for their games to fit on disk or within a reasonable download anymore. That bit stuck out to me.
Fox Mulder
Member
Yeah, it's pretty shitty. Consoles aren't simply convenient anymore.
when I was downloading forza horizon 3 in the background, it made the game I was playing run like garbage.
I loved bringing games over to a friend's house for late night left 4 dead or halo. Now we'd have to install the game and download 20GBs of patches and shit before even starting.
when I was downloading forza horizon 3 in the background, it made the game I was playing run like garbage.
I loved bringing games over to a friend's house for late night left 4 dead or halo. Now we'd have to install the game and download 20GBs of patches and shit before even starting.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
There's some choice quotes from the last three months that you ought to read.
I mean, yeah, it should be obvious to anyone at this point that PC has been for this entire generation in a more unique position to draw traditionally-console players over than it has ever been before. And PC has drawn enough users over to it (like myself and many others on GAF) that Sony and Microsoft have more than taken notice.
If PS4 Pro is supposedly a response to the encroachment of PC gaming on Sony's userbase of all things, then what the hell do you think Scorpio is, too?
They're 100% in competition (things are a little more nuanced where Microsoft is concerned but for the sake of conciseness I'll still call it competition). If they continued to tell themselves they weren't, which they don't because they know better, then they'd be lying to themselves.
Ignoring patches for the moment, a lot of the installation problems would've been rectified with read-only flash storage cards for games, as disc read speeds are abysmal for streaming modern game content, which is why games have to be installed this gen.
Problem is, flash is way more expensive than the equivalent disc space, so obviously console manufacturers and publishers are gonna outright ignore that option.
Bringing back in patches, they're getting way too ridiculous. Either ship a functional game and whatever "day 1" patch you want to implement is last minute fixes that AREN'T basically fixing a broken game (with install sizes of 2GB or less, pls) or allow people to preload those patches. Come launch day, people shouldn't have to be waiting for a fucking PATCH just to play their game. Shit should be ready to go.
Problem is, flash is way more expensive than the equivalent disc space, so obviously console manufacturers and publishers are gonna outright ignore that option.
Bringing back in patches, they're getting way too ridiculous. Either ship a functional game and whatever "day 1" patch you want to implement is last minute fixes that AREN'T basically fixing a broken game (with install sizes of 2GB or less, pls) or allow people to preload those patches. Come launch day, people shouldn't have to be waiting for a fucking PATCH just to play their game. Shit should be ready to go.
RichiRamjag
Member
I see them more of an admittance that both companies put out sorry ass hardware at the start of the gen, but you've got a point for sure.
Any game with a critical day 1 patch (DOOM PS4 for example) while technically possible to play is going to suffer greatly from the experience. Then you get games that are absolute train wrecks without the day 1 patch (Tony Hawk 5) and are completely unplayable.
When the consoles were launched one of the features Sony touted was the ability to buy a game on PSN and start playing "right away" while the rest of the game downloaded. A few launch games worked this way, Killzone, Knack, etc but over time fewer and fewer games supported this feature to the point where now it's a surprise if you can just buy a AAA game off the PSN and get to playing right away.
Oh man, those updates. Afaik is it not even a slow internet connection but just the Xbox taking long to process the update. When I checked my router there was zero traffic while the xbox was still slowly counting down the last 100mb.
If you're buying digital games this is a reality that was unavoidable though and is also dependent on ISP speeds as well as XBL/PSN speeds.
However, if you're buying physical games still, the inability to preload day one patches is an absolute killer that needs to be resolved especially when day one patches are getting ridiculously too big.
However, if you're buying physical games still, the inability to preload day one patches is an absolute killer that needs to be resolved especially when day one patches are getting ridiculously too big.
Fox Mulder
Member
Some games will start, only to then sit you at a menu while it downloads the game.
Jim Sterling
Member
I was trying to find the video Sony put out showing "Play As You Download" working just like this, where you buy a game and start playing as if it were streaming.
Oddly that video seems real hard to track down now. Maybe because it was complete horseapples.
IdreamofHIME
Member
A_jew should really ask for royalties. Any Battlefront footage always has him owning Jim.
The 360 had a lot of patching restrictions because they sold units with only 64 megs of usable storage so patch size was capped to that, but starting with gta5 they bailed on that restriction because the no storage restriction was really holding the system back. Most post-2013 games require large installs and patches, including Minecraft. That said, even before that if you wanted to play online, you usually needed a large compatibility pack download which was a patch under a different name.
The bigger issue is more that patches are considered standard now so games are often shipped without really being finished (a few games require patches due to missing content which wasn't finalized or compiled in time for the disc pressing), or some games just go through huge changes post-launch. Destiny and Witcher 3 shipped with fairly lean day one patches but now require 28 gig and 17 gig patches respectively.
I remember it being a part of the Playstation Meeting where they introduced the PS4, but it could have been E3 that year. I'm sure there's an archive of those streams somewhere. I'd help you find it if I wasn't blocked at work.
Preloads are a thing, and jumping online about 4-6 hours before the game unlocks to check for patches has allowed me to always play the patched game at midnight eastern time. Yeah it sucks that if you don't preload, you have to wait, but... yeah that's kinda how it works? At least they prepatch downloaded games on PS4 now. Disc installs are super fast, at least. Devs even have the ability to give you something to play while installing/downloading the game.
It's a necessary evil with how loading and texture streaming goes nowadays. Not ideal, but far from unmanageable
It's a necessary evil with how loading and texture streaming goes nowadays. Not ideal, but far from unmanageable
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Games are way way bigger than they were a few years ago.
If you live in America, I think it's a safe bet that game sizes have increased waaaaay more than your internet speeds and allotments have, relatively speaking..
chronic_archaic
Member
This is over exaggerated. I just installed Quantum Break in about 20 minutes including the 5GB patch data the other night.
MillionStabs
Banned
When I get 6mbps downloads on Steam at any given time and then I'm LUCKY to get at least 1 on PSN, there's something wrong.
Also the UI is almost universally terrible. I have to go through 3 menus and a progress bar to invite a friend to my party in Last of Us, where on Steam it takes a single button click (some games even having built in invite features)
Also the UI is almost universally terrible. I have to go through 3 menus and a progress bar to invite a friend to my party in Last of Us, where on Steam it takes a single button click (some games even having built in invite features)
Wowfunhappy
Member
The Wii U still has it, and the NX probably will, given that it's said to use flash-based storage.
I mean, occasionally the NX will ask you to download some updates, but they're optional, and a majority of games didn't come with day one patches.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
I could've sworn Sony previously said otherwise but I can't found it.
Fair enough.
Every time anyone tries to argue that consoles are redundant or that they are even remotely close to being redundant, they sound amazingly out of touch with reality and with normal gamers. This loosely disguised diatribe from Sterling is no different. I bought Rigs a couple of days ago and I'm pretty sure I started playing it within minutes of the disc going in. This isn't always the case, but it is more often than not in my experience.
"Play as you download" has been one of the most annoying features this gen on PS4.
Too many fucking times I thought the download was complete, only to go play the game, only have access to a 2 minutes section and be locked out of the rest of the game. The fact that the rest of the download is hidden and it doesn't appear on the download list of PSN is ridiculous.
Too many fucking times I thought the download was complete, only to go play the game, only have access to a 2 minutes section and be locked out of the rest of the game. The fact that the rest of the download is hidden and it doesn't appear on the download list of PSN is ridiculous.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Oh, it's a bit of that, too.
So why did Sony state that PCs are the reason for the Pro?
MillionStabs
Banned
Because that would require effort, which is something that AAA companies don't have time for when they're releasing 6 games a year
metareferential
Member
Buy an hdmi cable, Jim. <3
Other than that, it's spot-on as usual, even though this was an easy score considered how shitty consoles networks are.
Other than that, it's spot-on as usual, even though this was an easy score considered how shitty consoles networks are.
LelouchZero
Member
Smh, the problems that have popped up this generation for consoles are very aggravating.
Slow installs and having to sit around for large updates. The digital store prices are also extortion most of the time.
Slow installs and having to sit around for large updates. The digital store prices are also extortion most of the time.
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